My experience with stents

[cathdiap]

@UsuallyDiapered I can't imagine my stent fitting into that urethra. 

[lackofname]

13 hours ago, UsuallyDiapered said:

@lackofname - what tubing are you using?

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B08HJJDXT1?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1 - I'm using the 4ID 6OD option. My inner tube is 2ID 4OD

10 hours ago, Spargano said:

Given the large intestines are huge in that pic I don’t think it’s accurate to life.

As @UsuallyDiapered said, the photo was of a deceased person, so it is unlikely to be proportionate to anyone here. I still understand your point though.

Thanks again @cathdiap

[UsuallyDiapered]

I have no intention of causing an argument over a cadaver. However, I disagree that it's not properly representative - the end of the intestine we see in the image is the rectum, which is a relatively wide space, about three inches diameter, so I think it's fairly proportionate. In any case, I think the urethra matches very well the diagram posted by @Spargano - the roughly 45 degree angle after the prostate, moving to a roughly 90 degree angle at the bulbous urethra.

 

@lackofname - perhaps you mentioned before, but what kind of inner tubing are you using? Both @Spargano and I used 4x2 Teflon tubing for the inner tube and we both found it unsatisfactory. The tubing from spray bottles seems to (i) be more rigid and likely to keep its shape better, and (ii) have a wider inner diameter which allows better drainage.

[lackofname]

5 hours ago, UsuallyDiapered said:

what kind of inner tubing are you using?

I got the exact same thing shown in the link below, but at a discount from the owner of a hardware store, as I know them well. https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B0DN5S9GHH/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also, I quickly whipped up a 3d print file as an alternative to O-rings as the outside ring - It's not amazing, but it costs 3 cents to print, so hey. If anyone wants the file, it should be attached. Note that you can print it with any filament type, I'm just using a rubberized one because if feels the best. (If you use the OBJ file, make sure the X and Y are both at 45mm, set Z to autoscale. The .idea file will only work with ideamaker, but has the dimensions pre-set. adjust dimensions to your liking.)

I've just finished stent mk.4, hoping it'll work well. Will probably try and get it in once some family events clear out of the way.

Cheers!

tinker.idea tinker.obj

[lackofname]

Update on stent mk. 4:
It snapped in the isopropyl 😭
Maybe there was some internal stress or smth, anyways, better it happen then rather then when I have it in.
I went to get it in with a diaper ready and everything, and then I take it out of my isopropyl container and it's just... shattered?
Anyways, a bit of  disappointment, but I'll see what I can salvage for mk. 5.
Either way, I'm wearing a diaper to bed tonight, so bittersweet.

[UsuallyDiapered]

41 minutes ago, lackofname said:

Update on stent mk. 4:
It snapped in the isopropyl 😭
Maybe there was some internal stress or smth, anyways, better it happen then rather then when I have it in.
I went to get it in with a diaper ready and everything, and then I take it out of my isopropyl container and it's just... shattered?
Anyways, a bit of  disappointment, but I'll see what I can salvage for mk. 5.
Either way, I'm wearing a diaper to bed tonight, so bittersweet.

Exactly - far better to have that happen before insertion. I can't say I know much about plastics, but perhaps the acrylic plastic tubing doesn't fare well with alcohol? Even though I always immerse my stents in isopropyl alcohol for at least a few minutes before insertion, I'm fairly sure @cathdiap has said that he merely rinses his in hot water, while @Spargano (I think) washes his with soap and water - as far as I can recall, neither of them has had a UTI using these methods. Perhaps this is something you could try if the plastic doesn't tolerate alcohol well. Of course, you could try another type of plastic.

 

Out of interest, @lackofname, was that your first stent using this particular tubing? or had you immersed it in alcohol for longer than usual?

[UsuallyDiapered]

11 minutes ago, Spargano said:

I remember when I first started my plastic stents would break apart. That’s why I use the windex pipes that have rigidity but also pliability.

last night my stent drifted into the bladder three times. That particular model has had a penchant for that anyway so it didn’t surprise me. What mattered to me was the inner anchor ring held and was not compromised.

so today I bought 4 windex bottles (the lower halves I threw out along with the spiggets and sat to making a new stent.

upper shepherds crook slightly angled to clear the hill (1.5 inch total after folded end) 2.5 inch central column before the 0.25 inch slope down into the 1.75 inch bend. With the second band as anchor it looks like a double fold or a super long fold. The result is a smooth insert and nothing blocking the pipe. The trade off is no silicone pillow or plastic anchor to hold it in place. 
 

in the last hour or so it has leaked admirably and sits the same as it did with the anchor. I will report back in a few hours so see if any soreness or migration occurs.

 

I trust your home will have the cleanest windows in the neighbourhood with all the Windex you have in stock! 

 

When you next take the stent out, could you post a picture? I haven't had a chance to build a new model yet, but I'd like to see what the "double" outer bend looks like (although that's easy enough to visualize) as well as what you described earlier (the new anchor). 

 

In the meantime, enjoy leaking uncontrollably into your diapers 😆

[lackofname]

9 hours ago, UsuallyDiapered said:

I can't say I know much about plastics, but perhaps the acrylic plastic tubing doesn't fare well with alcohol?

From Google: (I probably should have researched this beforehand)

"Isopropyl alcohol can damage acrylic, especially if used repeatedly or in high concentrations. 

Isopropyl alcohol is a solvent that can damage acrylic, especially if used repeatedly or in high concentrations. Solvents can cause acrylic to soften, swell, craze, crack, or permeate. Acrylic can be damaged by agents containing benzene, ethanol, and other alcohols, organic materials, or thinners."

 

9 hours ago, UsuallyDiapered said:

Out of interest, @lackofname, was that your first stent using this particular tubing? or had you immersed it in alcohol for longer than usual?

The worst of both worlds: First time and way too long. I just left it for the better part of a day because I thought I wouldn't need it until then. But I'm always worried about using hot water, as it could deform it? I would like some advice on that.

 

Meanwhile, I'm making stent mk. 5, and I've always done a split silicone, can someone advise me as to how you keep pushing it along after the last lip of the rigid part has been covered?
(I was very gentle on the heating this tome, and the result is that it is much easier to push the silicone along)

Thanks, Guys!

[lackofname]

Update on stent mk. 5:
This one is arguably the highest quality I have managed so far; one piece of silicone, rolled ends, double anchor line.

Just got it in, there was a bit of blood initially, but that was probably just me being rough with the needle. Other then that, it was the most pain free insertion I've had so far, and I haven't had to take it out immediately yet. The bit I'm more concerned about is the fact that I had a full bladder hen I inserted it, and I had to bear down to get it to flow, being said, at least I know there isn't an obstruction.
See y'all in the morning with a (hopefully full) diaper.

Edit: Aborted about an hour later due to no accidental leakage, and when bearing down, mostly just a whole lot of blood. I'll hope that it heals by tomorrow morning.

For anyone interested, the dimensions are as follows:
top silicone (measured off rigid): 3/4 in
top rigid: 1.5 cm
top bend degrees: 80
Middle section (I hear you @spargano, but unified to make it easier to measure): 7cm
bottom bend degrees: 80
bottom rigid: 2cm
bottom silicone (measured off rigid): 3/4 in

Note that the top and bottom silicone lengths were shortened when I rolled them inwards

[UsuallyDiapered]

18 hours ago, lackofname said:

From Google: (I probably should have researched this beforehand)

"Isopropyl alcohol can damage acrylic, especially if used repeatedly or in high concentrations. 

Isopropyl alcohol is a solvent that can damage acrylic, especially if used repeatedly or in high concentrations. Solvents can cause acrylic to soften, swell, craze, crack, or permeate. Acrylic can be damaged by agents containing benzene, ethanol, and other alcohols, organic materials, or thinners."

 

The worst of both worlds: First time and way too long. I just left it for the better part of a day because I thought I wouldn't need it until then. But I'm always worried about using hot water, as it could deform it? I would like some advice on that.

 

Meanwhile, I'm making stent mk. 5, and I've always done a split silicone, can someone advise me as to how you keep pushing it along after the last lip of the rigid part has been covered?
(I was very gentle on the heating this tome, and the result is that it is much easier to push the silicone along)

Thanks, Guys!

Hot water should be fine, particularly if you have melted the plastic sufficiently while shaping it. I'm fairly sure that, with some of my earlier models, I didn't melt the plastic enough to cause a more-or-less permanent bend - on removal, I'd often find the bends had straightened out somewhat; all that would have been at play in those instances was the shape of the urethra and body heat.

 

Anyway...since I have started melting the plastic tubing more "definitely" (obviously not so much that it becomes viscous), the stents have kept their shape. As I've mentioned before, I don't have access to a heat gun, so I use a candle to gently melt the sections I need to bend. Once I've bent the tubing sufficiently, I dip it in cold water to cool the tube quickly - I'm not sure if that helps reinforce the tubing, but at least it will prevent any inadvertent mis-shaping of the tube.

 

When I've made the stent, I always wash it in hot water, along with a chlorhexidine surgical scrub...I've never used boiling water (at least, not since I started using @cathdiap's model), but hot water doesn't seem to cause the stent to lose its shape. As an extra precaution, I put my stent in 70% isopropyl alcohol (which, I know, you'll want to avoid if you're using the acrylic tubing) - but both @cathdiap and @Spargano seem to fare pretty well without the alcohol.

 

As for pushing the silicone over the inner tubing - yes, it can be a bit of a challenge, but it has never been as difficult for me as what you have reported, @lackofname! Perhaps the acrylic tubing has a rougher surface than what cathdiap, Sargano and I have been using? In any case, I use some saliva (inside the silicone tube and on the outside of the inner tube) to give it some lubrication. Gently twisting the silicone as you move it over the inner tube can help. I also find that wearing vinyl/latex gloves helps with gripping both tubes, particularly when there's lubricant involved. For the final bit, I either push the end of the inner tube gently on the worktop so as to push it into the silicone or else I use the top of a pen to push the inner tube inside the silicone. Of course, with both methods one has to be careful not to deform the top of the inner tube.

13 minutes ago, Spargano said:

So I made a second model of the extra band stent. The stent on the right is 2.5 inches before the bend measured on the inside. The stent on the left is 2.75 inches. It’s possible I will shorten the lower bend’s length some as it is sitting a little further into the bulbous area than I would like. The 2.5 sat mostly comfortably but it was clearly hitting the wall of the bladder so I am hoping the quarter of an inch bump in height clears the hill 

Looks good, @Spargano. How do you think the additional bend for the membranous urethra is affecting things? Better fit? More stable?

 

Hope to make my own similar version soon.

[lackofname]

5 hours ago, UsuallyDiapered said:

but it has never been as difficult for me as what you have reported, @lackofname!

Yeah, it was because the tubing expanded when I applied too much heat. I was able to solve it by being very gentle with the heat, and relying on more force to bend it rather than gravity.

Anyways, for mk. 5, I woke up after having taken it out, and I was lucky enough to have no irritation (which I usually dread), so that's neat!
Thanks, all

[UsuallyDiapered]

3 hours ago, Spargano said:

Removed an 8th of an inch from the top and bottom bends. It’s sitting better and draining better too. It stayed in place last night but I think because it was too long in both section it did not drain well. Now that it is less in the bulbous area and not hitting the bladder wall slope, it’s leaking continuously. 

Sounds like you're really getting close, @Spargano! Remember a couple of months ago we were discussing the hope with each new stent that it just might be the one... I'm sure you still get that feeling, as I do!

 

I had started to make the frame before I went out last evening, and even though it was very late when I returned home, I finished the stent off, because I was so curious to implement your recent suggestions. I went to bed with the stent in and, even though I only got a few hours' sleep, it was definitely the most stable stent while lying in every position. It's hard to gauge just how much I wet without deliberately putting pressure on my bladder, but I had a pretty heavy diaper in the morning. When I think back, it's interesting that @cathdiap, @Spargano and I had a little discussion about whether a sharp outer bend or a gradual bend leads to a better fit - it turns out that, as @Spargano has described it, it's actually a bit of both: an initial (roughly 45 degree) bend, followed by a very short straight section, and then a completion of the bend. Overall, it looks rather like a gradual bend, whereas in reality it is a series of sharp bends.

 

I had to take the stent out in the morning, and I had hoped that I'd be able to insert it again later to test daytime performance, but alas, there's too much going on in the house at the moment! It'll have to wait for another day!

[cathdiap]

A few days ago I decided to refurbish my old stent and put a new silicone tube over the same old frame.

I thought I had the same size, shape and location of the extra bulge on the arms as the old stent. But I quickly found out that it did not fit as well and did not perform as well as the old one.

I had to increase the length of the lower arm by 2 mm and shorten the upper arm by 1 mm. And now it performs exactly the same as the old one. Which just goes to show how even the smallest adjustments can make the difference between comfortable and good drainage and uncomfortable and not good drainage.

[cathdiap]

16 minutes ago, Spargano said:

a happy accident was my hole punched a wider hole than I intended, but it doesn’t matter given it’s location. This has led to even more forceful dripping

I stopped making vent holes because upon closer inspection of my previous model, I found that they were blocked by the frame, which apparently did not reduce drainage. So far, my refurbished stent seems to drain just as well as the old one. So maybe they are not as important as I thought.

[joemama414]

On 1/12/2025 at 3:25 PM, Spargano said:

your very first experience of putting anything in you was a stent and not a catheter? Bad idea. 
 

you need to always start with using catheters to get used to things. Your urethra is going to burn for a few days. Nothing is wrong, but your lining was rubbed raw from something foreign inside. 
 

take it from someone who screwed up in the beginning as well. Take it slow. It should never hurt.

Thank you @Spargano! I was wondering where to go from here. I'll admit, this whole first experience with catheters/stents definitely shook me up to say the least. It's taken me a couple of weeks to even feel interested in thinking more about this process and experience, as in the moment it was really stressful and scary. However, I do want to continue to use and refine stents and achieve the incontinence many of you describe.

For the near-24 hours I used it for, I was getting great results while sitting/standing and lying down. There was definitely resistance from the swelling as sometimes I felt like I could pee but the flow seemed blocked inside the urethra. Also it would sting in my urethra due to the swelling/insertion. But in many moments I felt completely out of control as my bladder emptied, especially when changing positions or standing up. It was an unbelievable experience.

However, as you pointed out, I don't have really any experience with catheters prior to this stent, so my urethra was definitely not prepared. I want to get used to things using catheters, but I don't really know where to start with them. Any advice for taking it slow and using catheters to prepare for stents?

[joemama414]

Sounds amazing @Spargano! It seems like you've almost found the perfect design. I'd love to see a picture of the tweaks you made to the bends, when you're able. Thank you for documenting your journey so regularly!

[cathdiap]

10 minutes ago, Spargano said:

so I did have a few dislodges last night, boo 😩. But that was after lying on my side for a few hours and then rolling on my back

I'm afraid that my stent design can't solve that problem. As a belly sleeper it's not a problem for me. But since I found out about it after testing it myself I am not as excited about my stent as before. I want it to be draining in all positions and not migrate under any circumstance.

I have been thinking about a solution, but it would make it rather complicated to build and probably not comfortable to wear anymore.

[lackofname]

Heya @cathdiap,
I was looking at your graph paper stent, and was wondering how you were able to get the bends to be so gradual? In my experience, heating it with a heat gun tends to make it bend in a small area rather than a larger one.
Still trying for that stent that actually drains for me, I didn't have it in long enough to know if I had what @Spargano has had recently, but I doubt it.
Any help is appreciated, thanks a bunch guys.

[cathdiap]

1 hour ago, lackofname said:

I was looking at your graph paper stent, and was wondering how you were able to get the bends to be so gradual? In my experience, heating it with a heat gun tends to make it bend in a small area rather than a larger one

I hold the plastic pipe about 2 inches from the nozzle of the heat gun on maximum heat while moving the pipe back and forth a bit so that it slowly melts over a larger area. I let "gravity" do its work to pull the end of the pipe down and simply pull the pipe away from the nozzle once it has the curvature I want. To cool it down I blow some air through the pipe from the other end with my mouth.

[Old_PA]

What size silicone tubing are you guys using?

 

[UsuallyDiapered]

29 minutes ago, Old_PA said:

What size silicone tubing are you guys using?

 

I use 6mm OD x 4mm ID silicone... I'm fairly sure that's what the others are using too!

[UsuallyDiapered]

5 minutes ago, Spargano said:

Yes.

last night was a mixed bag. On the one hand I woke up to a work alarm I forgot to turn off at 3 to a completely swollen night time diaper. But I also had a painful erection…. Eventually it went down and more urine pooled out. This happened again two hours later. Throughout this I was on my back so the flow was not affected I guess.

when I switched to my side sleeping position I woke up to the stent having migrated into the bladder 🙄. So now my bladder opening is sore as I had to dislodge it and it didn’t come out on the first pull. Oh well, that’s the nature of this engineering experiment and why we have retrieval lines and risk awareness in our builds. 
 

hoping that soreness dissipates quickly as this model til then felt really good, and even though I said I will make an updated stent with the measurements, I was still going to enjoy this one :).

anyway, hope everyone had a nice weekend. @UsuallyDiapered, you casually mentioned it, but you DID sleep in your stent. Congrats! Looking forward to progress reports from @lackofname and @joemama414.

@Old_PA, you started me on the modified catheter/holey foley phase of experiments. Good to see you weighing in! 
 

@cathdiap, I am curious what maintaince required you to “re-sleeve” your stent. You probably didn’t, but if would have been awesome if you took pictures of the frame prior to and after sleeving it.

Any idea, @Spargano, what in the stent construction caused the migration of the stent? You had mentioned earlier about possibly lengthening the upper arm - do you think that might be the solution?

 

Yes - I suppose I did sleep with the stent in! I think I managed to let go of some of the worry of the stent migrating into the bladder - I still don't like the thought of it though! I had hoped to be able to try the same stent during the day - in fact, I was really looking forward to it - but there is just too much coming and going at home at the moment...I can't even put on a diaper, never mind putting in a stent!

[UsuallyDiapered]

1 hour ago, Spargano said:

Pretty sure the stent gets pushed when I am on my side of stomach as the buttocks muscles squeeze differently. What likely causes it, is the urethra kinked by the thighs closing and a back wall of urine that allows the stent to swim into the bladder. The gentle slope of the lower bend makes that journey easy. But it’s necessary for that slope to be gentle to sit comfortably. I am not sure lengthening the arm will eliminate that potential. It should make the stent popping out less likely though.

if you are a back sleeper this is a non issue lol. I just happen to like sleeping on my side.

 

i am sorry you aren’t able to enjoy your stent as you would like. Even without the stent I am 24/7 diapered for the last 18 years (wow that’s long now that I think of it.) it was the plateau of the untraining that caused me to want to take the stent path. And even though I have built well over a hundred stents in experimenting, I have not been without a stent in me for 5 months. That’s part of why the refining process has been fun. The imperfections of angles or lengths sometimes aren’t apparent until the stent has been in for 6-8 hours. 

 

I'll be interested, as always, to hear about the effects of any adjustments you make! Personally, I find it very difficult to sleep on my back - usually I sleep on my side, but if I'm diapered I'll also sleep fine on my stomach.

 

Wow...18 years is certainly a long time - at this stage you've probably spent as much of your life diapered as not! For me, it's not a realistic possibility to go 24-7 - both on account of living arrangements and my work situation, which almost entirely requires me to be standing up in front of groups of people. Sadly, my username - UsuallyDiapered - is only wishful thinking, not a reality!

[UsuallyDiapered]

41 minutes ago, Spargano said:

It’s a lifestyle decision. I am in front of people, always on my feet. Extremely active, but I never let diapers get in the way. No one is looking. lol.

 

so some pics.. the one on the right is the current champ which drains lovely and doesn’t move. The one on the left is the new 3 inch model, which is in right now. I will report back later on how it fares.

I take my hat off to you and your lifestyle decision! It's not for me at the moment, though still love experimenting with the stents any chance I get!

 

Thanks for the new photos. Look forward to hearing about how the current model fares with the longer inner arm and main section. It certainly looks like it should be less easy for it to be expelled from the bladder - which would be great as long as it doesn't end up irritating the bladder wall.

[UsuallyDiapered]

3 minutes ago, Spargano said:

And you were right. Despite being very comfortable it did not drain when I took a nap. Didn’t dislodge when I pushed the ladder to expel, but it was definitely hitting the wall. 
 

I switched back to the shorter, albeit almost verticale upper end and immediately resumed gushes and leaks galore, spurts while coughing etc.

if this is to be my model going forward I guess I need to see if that inner migration was a fluke or the norm when I sleep on my side. Cause I have to say, waking up to a rearz inspire super swollen between my legs was the coolest feeling I think I have had. If I have to sleep on my back to achieve it, I will

Are you quite sure that it was the inner arm which was to blame? Is it possible that the extra length of the middle section was causing it to hit the bladder wall? Perhaps a "compromise" version would work - i.e. slightly shorter middle section but with that longer inner arm?