Anyone Still Support Obama After Ndaa?

[BoTox]

I love it. Horndog can't see me any more! Bonus points!

Disresepctful? A spiritied discussion is NOW disrespectful? I used no profanity, made no personal slurs yet I'm the disrespectful one? Way to distract from the fact Obama is the worst president in living memory and I lived through the Carter years. Jimmy has to be loving the fact he is no longer the worst president in the last 50 years.

[sarah_ab]

well botox you are entitled to your opinion that obama is the worst president... just like i am entitled to my opinion that bush jr was the worst president.. there is no way to state who was the better president as each person has their own criteria for what makes a good president.

If you are pro life than a president who supports abortion will seem awful to you, but if you are pro choice that same president will be great...

Everyone has their own ideas as to what makes a good president.. the problem lies when someone believes that their opinion is somehow better than anothers... no one's opinion is better than another persons... no matter how old a person is, no matter where a person lives, no matter how many or how few jobs a person has had, no matter the education level a person has... NO ONE HAS A BETTER OPINION THAN SOMEONE ELSE.

unforunately certain people seem to think their age, education, experience means their opinion is better than others....

So, to have a respectful discussion and even a spirited debate, you have to actually BE RESPECTFUL of everyone's opinions.. frank statements such as "i'm right" or "you are wrong" just don't fit... and everyone of us can find statistics to support our opinions... so that doesn't really help...

[Diapered Jason]

And for the argument, I know Canadians (quite a few) and I haven't heard anything fully positive about socialized medicine.

I have heard in Canada and Great Britain that scheduling an appointment with your doctor is no easy task, but I have also heard the price of healthcare is one tenth of what we pay. I am not saying we should go after a single payer system, but I am saying we should do something about the price of health care. As health care becomes more expensive, it becomes a larger burden on businesses as well as us who have to pay copays. Certainly, this must have an inflationary effect on the economy while at the same time factoring into one of the reason wages have remained stagnant for quite some time. This is one of the reasons I would prefer a system that does not rely on the employer for health care.

Obama's healthcare plans tackle the issue of coverage, which can potentially lower the cost of healthcare by providing more people with access to preventative care as well as less emergency room visits by people who cannot afford the hospital fees. That said, it does not really solve the problem as to why prescriptions, surgery, and other health neccesities cost an obsence amount. I do not know why this was not talked about as I feel this is more important than coverage and is more relevant to everyone.

[sarah_ab]

I dunno when i lived in england, it was quite easy for me to get in to see a dr, and i didn't even have citizenship there, i was simply a student studying abroad, but had no problem getting in, and my prescription, which would have cost me 10 pounds in the USA comparatively, was only 1 pound in the UK.

I have friends in canada, some with life threatening conditions, who never have a problem getting in to see their dr. THere are difference, in canada, if you need a knee replacement, but care still able to ambulate currently and it is not life threatening it can take 6-8 weeks to get scheduled, but if you have a seriously life threatening emergency everything is pretty much immediate.

I have a friend who had a history of brain tumors. She started getting migraines again, so called her neurologist and stated her symptoms, she had an apt, that same day, and an MRI that same time as the apt, then within hours they ahd her admited to the hospital and surgery was scheduled for 12 hours later.

In countries with national health care there is much better prioritizing, its not about who can pay, but who is more critical. Both systems have their faults... however, at least in the UK and Canada EVERYONE can go to the dr when they are sick, because everyone has access to health care they can afford. In the USA sure you can go to the ER, and they ahve to treat you.. .and then they bill you for an unreasonable amount of money... which is why most people do not go to the ER even when very ill.

In canada/uk you can do to the DR and often do not have any sort of copay.. so there is no fear of not being able toa fford medical care.

[redneck diaper boy]

I love it. Horndog can't see me any more! Bonus points!

Disresepctful? A spiritied discussion is NOW disrespectful? I used no profanity, made no personal slurs yet I'm the disrespectful one? Way to distract from the fact Obama is the worst president in living memory and I lived through the Carter years. Jimmy has to be loving the fact he is no longer the worst president in the last 50 years.

My prediction is Obama will not run on his record. The only things that Obama has is scare tactics, blaming Bush, blaming the Republican Congress and demagoguery. Time will tell if I am right or wrong. Prepare to hear: "The Republicans will take away your Social Security." The Republicans will make the air and water dirty." "The Republicans will take away your healthcare." "The Republicans will let children starve" "The Republicans will bring back lynching" I see it comming

[sarah_ab]

wait isn't it the republicans claiming social security is running out of money? pretty sure i've heard that out of the republican party many many times..... theres over 1 trillion dollars in the Social security fund and it is CONSTANTLY being added to......

but what do i know.. i just work for them.....

[Leilin]

wait isn't it the republicans claiming social security is running out of money? pretty sure i've heard that out of the republican party many many times..... theres over 1 trillion dollars in the Social security fund and it is CONSTANTLY being added to......

but what do i know.. i just work for them.....

You're obviously a less reliable source than Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck.

Marxists

Every time you use that word with political masturbatory intent, a kitten dies.

I write stories for myself.

Not to belabor the obvious, but this explains your rather ardent attachment to political fiction.

[Horndog]

Horndog: Where is that feature? O_O The only one I see is the ability to ignore signatures, or I would have ignored 3 or 4 people on this forum ages ago.

http://www.dailydiap...ea=ignoredusers

When you add the ignored person's username, be sure to check the box "Posts" beside the text box where you input the username.

EDIT: Just checked my private messages, which included a few people who found my ignoring of the two unmentionables above me to be "oppressive," and somehow indicative of how "right" they were about Obama. That's silly. That's terribly silly. The fact of the matter is that they're disrespectful -- not in the sense that they've made personal attacks toward anyone (though they attacked Obama personally several times), but it's the fact that both of them clearly stated that one side is right, the other side is wrong -- and when someone challenges their statements, they ignore it and tout talking points like some prejudicial robot that runs on irrational anger. They're disrespectful to people who try to have a conversation with them.

Again, they're not to be trusted. Both are adults that act like babies. Ironic given the nature of this site.

[sarah_ab]

lol leilin, wait i never said i was a reliable source... but i didn't realize we had to quote reliable sources here.. i thought as long as we saw it somewhere or heard it once someplace than that was reliable enough.

for example: i read somewhere once that 77% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[Leilin]

lol leilin, wait i never said i was a reliable source... but i didn't realize we had to quote reliable sources here.. i thought as long as we saw it somewhere or heard it once someplace than that was reliable enough.

for example: i read somewhere once that 77% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

You're crazy, lady. EVERYBODY knows that it's 63.5 percent of statistics that are made up on the sput. DUH!

[Leilin]

the fact that both of them clearly stated that one side is right, the other side is wrong -- and when someone challenges their statements, they ignore it and tout talking points like some prejudicial robot that runs on irrational anger.

Understood. I would rather laugh at their ignorant rantings than ignore them. There are OTHER people who definitely deserve an ignore for trolling here, for sure, though.

[sarah_ab]

You're crazy, lady. EVERYBODY knows that it's 63.5 percent of statistics that are made up on the sput. DUH!

no its 77%.. because I am right. I read it somewhere and I believe it, so therefore I am right and you are wrong.

This is what i have learned from the last few pages of this thread... If i read it, and I say it, then I Must be the RIGHT one and everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong. hehehehehehe

[BoTox]

Not to belabor the obvious, but this explains your rather ardent attachment to political fiction.

Well, that is your opinion. I don't get my news from the daily show or the colbert report so I certainly have a different view than many here. However, this is America and I am guarnateed the freedom of speech. Unfortunatly, most liberals think that means they are guaranteed a stage and an audience. I am under no such delusions.

The simple fact is one person's rights end where they infringe on another's liberty. For one to have a something given to them by government for free(? really, nothing is free) requires government to extort the resource from someone else simply because they were more industrious and more successful. I believe in charity, I dontate time, resources and money through out the year and I think I pick charities closer to home and do more good than the hacks in Washington.

Another simple truth is nobody has a right to someone else's property or money. That's called theft and is punishable under the law unless you are the government and wrote the law.

We are at the turning point. We can either go up with the rule of law or down with the rule of man.

As for your rosy picture of social security, the trust fund is full of IOUs in the form of treasury bonds. The government is robbing Peter to pay Paul. All the money the government is borrowing and spending has to be paid back some day and with a $1,000,000,000,000 being added to the debt every year of Obama's term in new spending, servicing the interest on the debt grows proportionately. You can never pay off your Visa by putting it on your Mastercard.

The Office of Management and Budget had this to say about it:

These [Trust Fund] balances are available to finance future benefit payments and other Trust Fund expenditures – but only in a bookkeeping sense.... They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits or other expenditures. The existence of large Trust Fund balances, therefore, does not, by itself, have any impact on the Government’s ability to pay benefits. (from FY 2000 Budget, Analytical Perspectives, p. 337)

And for those with very short memories, all of congress was controlled by the liberals the last few years of Bush's term. He didn't pass all that legislation, the likes of Pelosi and Reid did. They also haven't passed a budget in 3 years!

[Alexandra]

I used Obama's own words, he said them, no conservative or tea partier or republican made them up. He said them himself. How is that attacking Obama?

Taxes need to go down, Obama isn't doing that. Spending needs to go down, Obama isn't doing that. The deficit needs to go down, Obama isn't doing that. The most recent budget he submitted is a joke, full of fake savings and plenty of tax increases.

Obama stands for so many things I do not support that the list goes on and on. He's anti-2nd amendment is first and foremost on my list. He supports and signs laws that fund things I find immoral such as publicly funded abortion, fetal stem cell research among them. I'm not trying to deny anyone access to abortion or fetal stem cells but the government has no place funding it.

Smearing mud on Redneck and I without substance to support Obama is not helping your candidate.

?ηγαί?ου? στη? κόλαση σας α?όητο γάιδα

[redneck diaper boy]

Well, that is your opinion. I don't get my news from the daily show or the colbert report so I certainly have a different view than many here. However, this is America and I am guarnateed the freedom of speech. Unfortunatly, most liberals think that means they are guaranteed a stage and an audience. I am under no such delusions.

The simple fact is one person's rights end where they infringe on another's liberty. For one to have a something given to them by government for free(? really, nothing is free) requires government to extort the resource from someone else simply because they were more industrious and more successful. I believe in charity, I dontate time, resources and money through out the year and I think I pick charities closer to home and do more good than the hacks in Washington.

Another simple truth is nobody has a right to someone else's property or money. That's called theft and is punishable under the law unless you are the government and wrote the law.

We are at the turning point. We can either go up with the rule of law or down with the rule of man.

As for your rosy picture of social security, the trust fund is full of IOUs in the form of treasury bonds. The government is robbing Peter to pay Paul. All the money the government is borrowing and spending has to be paid back some day and with a $1,000,000,000,000 being added to the debt every year of Obama's term in new spending, servicing the interest on the debt grows proportionately. You can never pay off your Visa by putting it on your Mastercard.

The Office of Management and Budget had this to say about it:

And for those with very short memories, all of congress was controlled by the liberals the last few years of Bush's term. He didn't pass all that legislation, the likes of Pelosi and Reid did. They also haven't passed a budget in 3 years!

http://www.forbes.com/2011/01/21/social-security-trust-fund-retirement-opinions-contributors-lawrence-hunter.html

[redneck diaper boy]

I see the frustration in some people's writing. The personal attacks, profanity and name calling comes from the left!

[sarah_ab]

The simple fact is one person's rights end where they infringe on another's liberty.

so wait banning abortion infringes on my liberty. Saying i cannot marry another woman infringes on my liberty. Forcing me to have an ultrasound if i want to have an abortion infringes on my liberty. Ruling according to the doctrine of ones specific religious beliefs which are not mine infringes on my liberty.

huh.... interesting... so the rights of a group of people to make these laws infringes on my liberty. however allowing abortion to be legal does not infringe on anyone's liberty because it is not forcing anyone to have one. Allowing people the choice to marry whoever they want is not infringing on anyones liberty because its not forcing people to marry each other.

[Leilin]

The simple fact is one person's rights end where they infringe on another's liberty.

Unless they're gay or women, apparently.

Well, that is your opinion.

I have provided facts. You have not.

Don't mistake the ease with which I refute the utter tripe that you have posted for anything resembling opinion. You have posted things which are the utter opposite of fact, not a difference of opinion. You can post them as much as you like, but you don't have a constitutional right to free speech on an internet forum and you do not have the right to not have your complete lies called out when you post them. Thanks for making another strawman attack, though. It solidifies your inability to discuss this issue like an adult to anybody who bothers to read this.

And for those with very short memories, all of congress was controlled by the liberals the last few years of Bush's term. He didn't pass all that legislation, the likes of Pelosi and Reid did. They also haven't passed a budget in 3 years!

And, see, this is what I was talking about. ZOMG HOW DOES BULLY PULPIT AND VETO WORK!?!?

Here are the federal budgets of the last three years, all of which passed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_federal_budget

[Alexandra]

its all about interprettation of the law, like lets say for example I'm pegan but that doesn't mean I can justifiy murder as human sacrafices garunteed to me by the 1st admendment because well thats really ludicris so how is the abortion or birth control controversies anydifferent

[BoTox]

Such anger and abuse! LOL! Those of you with thin skins will never make it in this world with such chips on your shoulders.

I never said I wanted to ban abortion, I do not want the government (me) to pay for it. I'm quite liberal in my tolerance as long as the government is not funding things I find distasteful or repugnant and certainly unconstitutional.

Frankly, your links support my point that the Senate haven't passed a budget since 2009 and each of them has had over $1,000,000,000,000 in deficit additions.

I did not and will not support Obama simply on the merits of his second amendment stance. Anyone that uses language such as "reasonable," "fair" or "inappropriate" in legal language is fudging because those words are not definitive and are highly subjective. Nothing with such language is constitutional.

Second, I cannot support him because his fiscal measures are disasterous for this country. Forcing green energy where no market yet exists is foolhardy. Subsidizing electric cars, spending $100,000 of taxpayer dollars per car to shove them down our throat is naive. Failing to make us energy independent by allowing the resources we have on our own land to be fully utilized so we can stop sending dollars to our enemies is pure hubris.

Third, his foreign policy is attrocious. He has repeatedly stiffed our greatest allies in favor of trying to curry favor with our enemies. Iran laughs at his gestures and mocks him, as they should. He is a neophyte with no talent for the game. He has left Poland, Israel and many other good allies to dangle while funding people who hate us such as the Palestinians.

My biggest hope is that after every bleeding heart liberal like Jimmy Carter there comes a great conservative leader like Ronald Reagan. I'm not seeing it in Romney, Santorum, Gingrich or Paul but they are miles ahead of Obama in my world view and the effects it has on my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

[sarah_ab]

I'm quite liberal in my tolerance as long as the government is not funding things I find distasteful or repugnant and certainly unconstitutional.

I got nothing... its just i wanted this repeated for its laugh factor.

[Diapered Jason]

The simple fact is one person's rights end where they infringe on another's liberty.

so wait banning abortion infringes on my liberty. Saying i cannot marry another woman infringes on my liberty. Forcing me to have an ultrasound if i want to have an abortion infringes on my liberty. Ruling according to the doctrine of ones specific religious beliefs which are not mine infringes on my liberty.

huh.... interesting... so the rights of a group of people to make these laws infringes on my liberty. however allowing abortion to be legal does not infringe on anyone's liberty because it is not forcing anyone to have one. Allowing people the choice to marry whoever they want is not infringing on anyones liberty because its not forcing people to marry each other.

Ah yes, we went from talking about abortions, to contraception, to invasive procedures before abortions, to the Girl Scouts are a radicalized organization that promotes homosexuality and abortion (they may have said communism too). I think that is where the "hair club for men" is now on their agenda to make sure women will continue to be treated as second class citizens. I feel that if insurance companies already feel the need to cover Viagra, they can and should cover birth control, especially since it is used to treat certain health conditions.

[Leilin]

Frankly, your links support my point that the Senate haven't passed a budget since 2009 and each of them has had over $1,000,000,000,000 in deficit additions.

You need to re-read each document. If you have trouble, press ctrl+F and look for the word "enacted." I know that "enacted" is not a word often used by Glenn Beck so if you're having trouble still, use http://www.dictionary.com

If you do not find personal liberty to be a priority, you are no more Liberal (or Libertarian) than Ron Paul. You would rather leap at the "OMG OBAMAS GONNA TAKE OUR GUNS" specter than address any real issues.

[Diapered Jason]

If you do not find personal liberty to be a priority, you are no more Liberal (or Libertarian) than Ron Paul. You would rather leap at the "OMG OBAMAS GONNA TAKE OUR GUNS" specter than address any real issues.

Surpisingly, he has actually expanded the freedom of gun use. Thanks to him, it is now possible to take guns to a national park.

[Horndog]

On Obama's policies on guns:

"Ever since Obama won the Democratic Party nomination in 2008, the NRA has been ominously warning gun owners about what the organization calls Obama’s “10 Point Plan to ‘Change’ the Second Amendment.