The Negotiations Of Sex And Diapers

[d_drew12]

I've thought about this topic a lot over the years. I'll explain:

My wife knows about my diapers, doesn't care if I wear them 24/7 (though I don't) but just doesn't want me to talk about it or bring it up when I am wearing or when I want to wear or am going to. It's like just do it, wear it and don't talk about it. I obviously find this very difficult to keep my mouth shut as I wear a diaper quite often and really enjoy it and want to talk about it. She also does on occasion put them on me, change me and other things but more about that later. She's not repulsed by the diapers, doesn't find them attractive on me(wish she did) or unattractive really either. I really just wish she was much more "involved" in the diaper thing with me and thus the reason I bring up the "diaper" topic, probably too often, but it's hard not too. When it gets brought up and the conversation becomes about diapers, she often quickly gets mad if it's talked about for too long(like more than 20 seconds). "Enough diaper talk!!" "Could you just not talk about it so much!!!" Those kind of phrases. I know I probably shouldn't bring it up to her but diapers are fun and sexual for me and I really enjoy them and again, enjoy when she does partake in putting them on me or changing them for me. Thus the reason I bring it up.

Here lies the big problem though. To get her to partake, it most often turns into a negotiation. Rarely, almost never, will she just offer to partake. It usually winds up with me negotiating to get her to partake. "I'll do this for you if you put my diaper on me" which sometimes it works and we come to an agreement, sometimes I'm shut down right away and the discussion ends quickly. I've learned pretty well when ask and when it's just going to be a big NO, depending on the night, her mood, etc. The other thing though is, I'm not always the one starting the negotiations. Often times, she will also do the negotiations. She doesn't really care a ton for sex so when it's "time" for sex it'll often turn into a discussion like "if we have sex tomorrow instead, I'll put your diaper on you", or upping the anti, "instead of sex, I'll put your diaper on you and change it all day tomorrow", etc. It's a negotiation so depending on how bad I want sex over the diapers or for her, how much she doesn't want sex vs how much diaper stuff she's willing to agree to with diapers, sets what the deal is. It's a back and forth negotiation. At times though, it's diaper or nothing as she's NOT going to have sex at all. Again, depends on her mood. Sometimes she's willing to do a lot to not have sex and sometimes a little. I do turn down the diaper stuff at times. Sometimes her wearing a diaper for a period of time is negotiated(never in public). It's kinda our unwritten but known between us rule that something sexual will happen at least once a week. She does it for me to keep me happy in the marriage.

Anyway, it works for us but I can't help but think that our sex and my diapers are all a negotiation in our marriage, as it is. Not sure if it's healthy or not or if it'll bite me in the butt in the future. We have a good marriage, it's just the whole sex and diapers that wind up being an issue, really more the diapers than anything. Sure, I couldn't have found some total diaper lover but I wasn't going to let someone go either who I truly love an connect with over absorbent underwear. Not worth it to me but I also can't help myself from bringing it up and wanting her to partake.

Do others here have these negotiations? Is this unhealthy in your opinion or wrong? Is it okay?

I'm sure plenty out there that don't have this problem and found the most perfect person they share all their diaper dreams with but those are the lucky few I guess and not all of us can really have that and I sure wasn't going to wait decades for that to possibly happen to me. My wife is understanding of my diapers to a point but I just keep pushing for it to go further as over the years, she has done more and more but sometimes I feel at the end of my rope and don't want it to end there. I wish she would "do it all" so to speak. Baby steps I guess, but I just don't want to push her over the edge either. What daya think?

[superdiaperbaby]

I am in a similar situation as well with my wife with things other than diapers, like reading me a story or role-playing with me. Basically as far as sex goes 98% of the time I wear a diaper. Before I got married I explained it to her that diapers are what my libido uses to be greatly aroused. She could even tell the difference in my behavior while wearing or not wearing. Wearing one makes it better all around. I do make sure to pleasure her first and then she will pleasure me with a diaper. Now that we are trying to get pregnant there are moments when more than a diaper is a needed and she can see that I need help (sex every other day wears a 36 year old out:). So now she is reading and role playing more. It is great, but I do get the feeling a greater purpose is involved in catering to these desires than the actual fulfillment of my fantasies. However, I am ok with that.

That is all sex stuff though. Lifestyle stuff is a different thing. Ever since I got married my AB side has diminished. I think because I was getting nurturing from my wife in different ways, like her making me dinner or doing the laundry. However, she does not care if I wear a diaper any time because I have shown how no one knows I am wearing. I just choose to wear them mostly at night because I am too busy to enjoy them during the day. I haven't got to the point of asking her to change me without conditions. If I did it would feel to me like I am demanding something from her, when all she does for me she does not do because of anything I say but because of her love. Negotiations are a different thing though. For instance a trick I hear alot is - do you want to walk the dog or sweep the floor? Really I can't win with that. One thing or the other.

As for you I hear some co-dependency issues going on. It is not the diapers that are the problem. It is the conditions. It seems obvious to me that she knows that diapering is your key to happiness and she turns it whenever she wants something. But, over time she has found that you need more stimulation to do her will. I think as far as diapers go you are on the right track to getting alot of desires fulfilled. But as far as the marriage goes there doesn't seem to be an unconditional sacrifice going on, instead it is conditional. That is why it feels wrong. I think you need to show her what unconditional means and she may learn from your behavior. That means to do something for someone else without any benefit to yourself. Once you practice this it will change things.

SDB

[happyindprs]

I have to say, count your blessings, I mean we seldom if get everything out of life that we are looking for. The fact that your wife doesn't care if you wear your diapers is something most of the people here would love to have. I know it is tough when there is no interaction with your wife, it sucks most of the time. I have similar situation as the both of you. My wife knows I will never outgrow my need for diapers and has accepted the fact. However she doesn't like to dwell on diaper talk either. Sometimes we have to look at what we have.

Most importantly is your relationship strong? Is it loving? If the answer is yes to both then consider yourself fortunate. It's always easy to think the grass is greener on the other side but is it really? You could leave your wife and find someone else more into being your Mommy but would you lose a great relationship in order to get what you want. It might just turn out to be a temporary game for the next person you meet and without diapers your relationship will be meaningless.

[d_drew12]

I hear both of you and thanks for your replies. To superdiaperbaby, I know what you mean when you say unconditionally and conditionally. A lot of what we have is all conditionally, "I made dinner last night" "I folded all the launder last time", the back and forth and often it's all got to be "fair" so to speak as though one can't do more or less then the other. However, I do often do things that are unconditional but after doing it for a while it gets tough even though. I may be doing it unconditional, but in some ways it's still conditional because I have hopes she'll do the same favor back at some point. She does things out of the kindness of her heart at times too(rare) but it's mainly a give, take relationship. Yeah, I don't care for it and maybe I should be the better person and who cares if I do more for her than she does for me but it's tough. I see female coworkers who would bend over backwards, much more than my wife would EVER, and go out of the way for a favor for me I didn't even ask them to do and expect nothing in return. Sadly, I always feel like I need to compensate them as I'm the "give, take" person but they refuse my offer. The girls that are such givers are so attractive to me and maybe that's me wanting to be nurtured or spoiled in a way as I have truly spoiled my wife in her life in manny ways. I've given her nearly everything she's ever wanted. Yes, many are objects like a big home, new cars, jewelry, vacations, new, new, new and also am still very affectionate still towards here, much more than she is me. I just never feel the reciprocation back all the time. Maybe I just need to suck it up though and like happyindprs said, maybe shouldn't expect everything out of life, but a guy can still dream, right? I'm happy enough in the marriage but always wish there was more to it diaper wise and more to it, unconditionally wise. Happy enough now and yes, the grass may always be greener on the other side but I feel that after a while, this will get old for both of us, and we'll snap and end it. It's no where near that point now but I could possibly forsee it happening too.

[sarah_ab]

ok this is what i see

you wife doesnt want to have sex with you

you wife doesnt want to diaper you

you wife enjoys you buying her nice expensve things

if you wife does something she expects the same or more from you in return....

it seems like diapers are the least of your marital problems right now

sounds like you both are in a rut and need to figure out a way out

rekindle that spark you first had, find the romance and mystery again because it doesnt sound like this is just a diaper issue at all

[LuvsGurl]

Marriage is a compromise. It has to work both ways, with both people giving and receiving. It sounds like you are giving giving giving and not getting anything in return. Perhaps you should go to a councilor.

[pampers212]

It sounds like you need to find that energy where you give to each other because it feels good to contribute to each other's well being. How you get there can be tough, though. I like the nonviolent communication approach:

1. Observe without evaluating - Connect them to what you experienced, not what you think of them for what they said or did.

2. Express feelings without blaming - State how you feel in the moment you experienced, and connect that feeling immediately to an unmet need.

3. Express needs separate from requests - State what is missing in your life in that moment, that getting it would make life more wonderful for you.

4. Epress requests without demanding - Ask to negotiate for their support in meeting that need. You can ask them to take action to meet that need, or to take action to no longer interfere with the need.

Be prepared for the other person to hear the following instead:

1. Your evaluations of them ("you think I'm . . ." most often generates a defensive response)

2. You blaming them for your feelings ("I made you feel . . ., how horrible I am that I could do that")

3. You need me to . . . (When people become our needs the world becomes scarce)

4. I have to . . . (When people hear a demand they have 2 choices: submit or rebel,)

When you suspect that they didn't hear your message as you intended for them to, ask:

"Can you tell me what you heard me say?" (if that sounds condescending, reword it so it sounds genuine to you.)

When their response confirms that they misunderstood you, simply say:

"Thank you for telling me what you heard me say. How can I say it differently so that you hear . . ."

Take time to speak and act out of an energy of your choosing.

The website www.cnvc.org has a lot of resources on effective communication that I have found to be very helpful. They have lists on human needs and feelings that are helpful in expressing how we are. To clarify:

Human needs are universal, we all have the same needs. If we can express our need clearly, and the other person hears that need clearly, it is possible for them to feel compassionate about your experience, and any offer or agreement to help is more likely to come with the joy of a small child feeding a hungry duck. Preferences are just our own unique ways of getting our needs met.

Feelings are an indication that a need of ours is unmet and that we are not enjoying life at the moment. Feeling can always be expressed as a declarative; "I feel sad" can be expressed as "I am sad." If a feeling cannot be expressed without using the word "feel," it is most likely an evaluation. "I feel like you just don't take any interest in me any more," is more likely to be heard as an evaluation of them, while "I feel sad and really need some comfort and connection," is more likely to be met with compassion and understanding.

I hope this helps; please let me know if I need to clarify anything here. I really reccomend nonviolent communication to anyone who is looking for ways to contribute to relationships in a life giving way.

[d_drew12]

ok this is what i see

you wife doesnt want to have sex with you

you wife doesnt want to diaper you

you wife enjoys you buying her nice expensve things

if you wife does something she expects the same or more from you in return....

it seems like diapers are the least of your marital problems right now

sounds like you both are in a rut and need to figure out a way out

rekindle that spark you first had, find the romance and mystery again because it doesnt sound like this is just a diaper issue at all

Ohhh, Sarah. I'm disappointed in the spelling errors!!! I should explain this a little more to you though. My wife and I really do have a great relationship and our communication isn't bad really, at all. Just she doesn't want to hear about the diaper stuff. We do have sex, often enough to satisfy me. Sure, I'd take it every day but we're just a little different in that department as many, a many couples are. My wife has really never had a sex drive though. It's not that she's disgusted with me, she just flat out, isn't that into it, with anyone. My wife doesn't mind diapering me, just that it's in exchange usually for sex, not always as she has just done it to please me too. Sometimes she rather actually have sex then do the diaper thing. Thus the negotiations.

I buy her a lot of things but, they're often my things I want in life too. The house, the cars, the trips, etc. It's just that without my job, she probably wouldn't have all those things either. So am I buying it JUST for her, not always I guess, but people often portray her as spoiled.

My wife and I are pretty 50/50 on the give in take for other things. She does this for me, I do that for her. Sure I'd wish it were 80/20 but hah, that's probably anyone's dream though. Sarah, there really aren't "marital problems" like you say. I'm just bringing up the fact that this works for us for now, the negotiations, but I just sometimes feel like I'm on let's make a deal or something which I'm not sure if that's going to be good down the road. It works for us now, just worried about the future of how this may go. I often think that these damn diaper desires I have, get in the way of our marriage at times as this subject, when we do argue, is usually the one we're arguing about. It may sound to you as though we fight about this all the time or something, but we really don't. Really, just when I start bringing it up too often and push her to do more "diaper stuff" with me and I start to push the wrong buttons. Pretty much, my fault I guess we have the argument in the first place cause I opened my big mouth. Anyway, maybe I should just keep doing what we're doing or I should just be the better man and not try and push her buttons with the diaper issue. Just play along when she is willing and leave it at that.

[babykeiff]

I think sarah_ab has hit on something close to what the problem is.

I presume that you have seen the CSI Episode 'King Baby'. There was something the wife said, which could be more close to home that you would care to admit.

Excerpt from CSI King Baby

GRISSOM: You would've had to take care of him.

DONNA EIGER: Oh, bathe him, feed him, change his diapers. (She chuckles.)

Freakin' gift from God to him. See the thing was, I-I just didn't want Bruce to

have the satisfaction of being helpless for the rest of his life. Do you know

what the last words I said to him were? (beat) You lose.

BRASS: So I take it that you weren't his, uh, his mommy?

DONNA EIGER: Look-- love, honor, cherish. Diapering was never on the list.

GRISSOM: How'd you deal with it?

DONNA EIGER: Oh, I didn't. Look, I'm sorry, but ... you can't have sex with a

man after you've seen him ... after you've seen him behave like that. So in

order to save our marriage, we had, uh, an arrangement. On Thursday nights, I

go to the club with my friends. He hires a baby-sitter.

Would you not think that it is possible that your wife thinks the same way?

[BigBoy]

I think the way I told my ex-wife was good. Before I told her, I planted a seed. I asked her to tell me her wildest fantasy, that deep dark place you go in you mind when you wanna cum, but tell me tomorrow night. She wanted a three or foursome. We plotted how to make that happen. Then she turned the question on me. I told her. She told me we would buy diapers the next day.

I think it is a good way to do it. Ask her what is the absolute freakiest thing she's into and make her fantasy become a reality. I think the favor will be returned. That is the way it worked for me.

Notice I said ex wife. I think the diaper/AB stuff was a good thing but eventually turned into something that kept me from seeing things were deteriating in our marriage. I was diapered and happy. Something she had fun earlier was now something she made deals with, diaper instead of sex. How about a handy during a diaper change.

[BigBoy]

I think the way I told my ex-wife was good. Before I told her, I planted a seed. I asked her to tell me her wildest fantasy, that deep dark place you go in you mind when you wanna cum, but tell me tomorrow night. She wanted a three or foursome. We plotted how to make that happen. Then she turned the question on me. I told her. She told me we would buy diapers the next day.

I think it is a good way to do it. Ask her what is the absolute freakiest thing she's into and make her fantasy become a reality. I think the favor will be returned. That is the way it worked for me.

Notice I said ex wife. I think the diaper/AB stuff was a good thing but eventually turned into something that kept me from seeing things were deteriating in our marriage. I was diapered and happy. Something she had fun earlier was now something she made deals with, diaper instead of sex. How about a handy during a diaper change.

[notababy]

DONNA EIGER: Oh, I didn't. Look, I'm sorry, but ... you can't have sex with a

man after you've seen him ... after you've seen him behave like that. So in

order to save our marriage, we had, uh, an arrangement. On Thursday nights, I

go to the club with my friends. He hires a baby-sitter.

Would you not think that it is possible that your wife thinks the same way?

Depends on the wife. I told mine before we were married. She already knew about my panty fetish and had taken me shopping. She also knew it was a fetish and not a 100% must have thing, and that I knew there were times and places for everything. I explained diapering in terms of stress, mood and calming, as well as a different, softer sensation w.r.t. genitalia. She understood. She even wore overnight once to try it. She's not "into it," but she accepts. As time has gone on she understands that she can be into it when she wants, and encourages me when she senses stress is higher, etc. Hell, this weekend she even admitted that after helping me powder (just powder, no diaper, chaffing issues...) that later that night she smelled baby powder on her hands and got sexually excited thinking about it/me/her. So yes, some women understand that the fetish doesn't define the man.

The problem I see on here most often is that the man IS defined by the fetish... and the man wants it to be central to everything else in their relationship. That's not a recipe for a healthy relationship no matter WHAT's at the center - diapers, money, togetherness, houses, etc. You've got to be able to keep things separate when they need to be, and for each person/couple/relationship that line will be in a different place and IT WILL MOVE depending on what else is going on. She must know that above all else, SHE comes first... and you have to be willing to put her first. And she you... which is how you ACTUALLY meet in the middle. If you're unwilling to put her first, ever, even if she never asked you to, you need to re-evaluate whether a relationship is as important as your diapers. I'd guess that for some on here, it's not... but they think they'd like it to be when in reality they wouldn't. I have no advice for that (and no judgement).

[d_drew12]

I think sarah_ab has hit on something close to what the problem is.

I presume that you have seen the CSI Episode 'King Baby'. There was something the wife said, which could be more close to home that you would care to admit.

DONNA EIGER: Oh, I didn't. Look, I'm sorry, but ... you can't have sex with a

man after you've seen him ... after you've seen him behave like that. So in

order to save our marriage, we had, uh, an arrangement. On Thursday nights, I

go to the club with my friends. He hires a baby-sitter.

Would you not think that it is possible that your wife thinks the same way?

Depends on the wife.

The problem I see on here most often is that the man IS defined by the fetish... and the man wants it to be central to everything else in their relationship. That's not a recipe for a healthy relationship no matter WHAT's at the center - diapers, money, togetherness, houses, etc. You've got to be able to keep things separate when they need to be, and for each person/couple/relationship that line will be in a different place and IT WILL MOVE depending on what else is going on. She must know that above all else, SHE comes first... and you have to be willing to put her first. And she you... which is how you ACTUALLY meet in the middle. If you're unwilling to put her first, ever, even if she never asked you to, you need to re-evaluate whether a relationship is as important as your diapers. I'd guess that for some on here, it's not... but they think they'd like it to be when in reality they wouldn't. I have no advice for that (and no judgement).

Thanks for the replies. It's hard to explain things in full detail, without having you know my wife. Some are making it out to be a much, much bigger deal than it really is. I am NO WHERE near the CSI king baby. We are worlds apart. I'm not ab at all. No toys, no baby talk, it's just the diaper and the changes really and it's all very discrete.

My wife and kid are definitely number one in my life. I would give up diapers in a heart beat for them. My child will not know of my diapers as it's a "bedroom" topic.

Diapers for me are more sexually gratifying. It's an outlet for me. I am a bedwetter so it is a need at times but not during the day. As I said, my wife has never cared for, really desired, or has an interest in sex. Hard for some to understand I'm sure. She'll do it but being that I know she doesn't really want to and the fact she is and has said, she just does it for me, I give her other options, that are sexually gratifying to me, but don't include her having to have sex. I see it as I'm helping her, and she's helping me. We both get something in the end, sorta. It may sound selfish because, I guess, in the end it's about me either way but in a marriage, there needs to be a level of intimacy otherwise you may as well be room mates. I'd say she does feel a connection when we have sex and it's something we share so she does get a little bit from it but nothing gratifying as she's just really not that into it. As I said, diapers are sexual for me so sex or diapers works for me. Sometimes it's sex, other times it's diapers. It's just weird to me to have the "negotiations" of it at times as like I've said, I feel as though it's "Let's Make A Deal" or something. Just hoping this doesn't cause major problems down the road. She doesn't hate diapers, or me wearing them, it's more me talking about them too much. I just tell her it's a part of my life, of course I want to talk about it, but yeah, I could see how I could be annoying at times of it too.

[sarah_ab]

sex does not equal intimacy .... and if she is asexual in that she has no desire for sex and you recognize this then how about just masturbating ... making her have sex with you by negotiating is still not respecting her .... because you know she doesnt want it ...

explore the many varied ways to be intimate without sex ....

[Diapers4Me]

I feel for you. My wife is pretty much asexual - she has almost never initiated sex. She really dislikes it when I wear a diaper during sex, and usually asks me to take it off. Sometimes I ask to keep it on and she obliges. But the bottom line, she has sex simply to satisfy my desires. Now, once I get her into it, she enjoys it, but again- she never initiates it.

She tolerates my wearing diapers whenever I want. She used to occasionally (once a quarter) pat my diapered butt when I walked by, or up the stairs in front of her. She hasn't done that in years (I've asked her nicely to) - no results.

So I'm just resigned to the status quo. I initiate all the time. I feel like crap for asking. So I put it off until I can't get it out of my head, then ask.

I wish my wish had something she would like me to do for her...but she says there is nothing. We've been to counselling and the therapist said that if she didn't try, our marriage would be in trouble. Well she tried a little, then stopped. But I wouldn't say our marriage is in trouble. We love each other a lot, and I am happy, just not exstatic. I have wondered if I should be settling for the way it is, or seeking exstacy, but I always fall back to settling for the way it is.

Probably bad for me, but such is life. We have a huge house, go on great vacations, have pretty much all we want, I just don't get much sex, or diaper attention. I have completely given up on ever having her put a diaper on, although I asked her if that might be an option before we got married and she said 'perhaps'. I think that was a 'perhaps when I'm in a nursing home'. LOL

[d_drew12]

Thanks for the reply Diapers4Me. Seems that you get what I'm saying and are in the same boat nearly. Especially you're last couple sentences. It seems as though sarah_ab just doesn't get it.

Sarah, I do pleasure myself, thank you very much and she in general, just isn't all that intimate a person either. Probably hard for you to understand all of this. In a previous post I saw you said you lost your virginity at a very, very early age. You probably like sex, intimacy and have a partner who enjoys the diaper thing with you so I don't expect you to understand this at all and I can tell from you're posts you act like there's just some simple solution to this. Fact is, I enjoy my life, enjoy my wife, we love each other, we have fun together, life's great for 99% of it. Everything is great with the exception of one thing. Sex and diapers. Just because she doesn't "like" sex, she still "likes" to make me happy and for that she overcomes the dislike and follows up with a like. She'll have sex with me once a week at least to make me happy. I just sometimes, as previously stated, give her other options instead of sex as I also like the diaper thing. When it comes time for sex, I may want something diapered done instead. I may make a request like, "hey, instead of sex do you want to put my diaper on me?" She may agree, or disagree to it depending on her mood. This is about the only way I can have her partake in my diaper activities. It's kind of a win, win in some ways because, she wants to make me happy through sex, so she does it. This makes her happy knowing I'm also happy. In place of the sex, I may "negotiate" something diapered done instead. She may agree, or disagree to it. Problem lies that sometimes she just gets annoyed that I go on and on about the diapered thing. This is what annoys her.

Yeah, it's a negotiation at times but right now it's not that big of a deal either. In a perfect world, it'd be different but I guess as the previous poster said, just the way it is.

[sarah_ab]

your last post clarified many thing regarding her attiude ... i may have misread or misinterpreted your previous posts

however just because ive had sex from an early age in no way means i cant empathize with ur situation ... sympathize no ... empathize yes ...

from what i interpreted from your posts it seemed your wife did not enjoy having sex at all and i was just encouraging you to find other ways to be intimate without sex .... the masturbation comment was not meant to be insulting but simply an alternative to you still getting a sexual release even without your wifes involvment ...

i apologize if my replies offended you however do not assume someone with a different life experience is unable to understand your situation ....