Catheter That Acts Like A Stent - A Temp Incon Desire Solution

[bookem]

I was looking around online tonight and came across this really interesting catheter, the Urovalve Surinate Bladder Management system. Its like a half catheter that goes into your bladder and stops right about where the pubic wall is. There is a check valve built into it, that uses a magnet to release the check valve to allow the flow of urine. I've read discussions in the past about people having the idea of using a stent or something like that in both the bladder and external sphincter to bypass the ability to clench. So here's my thought, what if there was a way to disable the check-valve and still allow the catheter to sit in there and allow the urine to flow constantly. I wanted to share this with the group and get some feed back on what you think.

Here is the website, with all the information on what it is and how it works. There is even a cool little video describing it.

http://anonym.to/?http://www.urovalve.com/technology.php

So, what do you think? Could it be modified to give the temporary incontinence that so many desire? Id love to hear your feedback. Thanks.

[diaperpt]

Sounds like fun. But what doctor is going to do this for you without a demonstrated need? Are you thinking a one-time shot? Wonder what the cost would be...even if you could get a doctor to do it. It doesn't look like something you're going to get your hands on and do yourself.

Long-term it's got to be replaced every 28 days? hmmm...

As for disabling the check-valve, I suppose you could just tape the magnet to yourself.

It's a neat post - an interesting concept - but it just doesn't seem practical. There's got to be an easier way for you, though.

[bookem]

For me personally, I'd only want to try something like this for a long weekend or something, not for weeks. No thank you! I was just exploring the thought is all. Maybe it could be useful to someone here, so I thought I'd share.

[LuvsGurl]

Reminds me of the med school student who got one of his classmates to give him a botox injection in the bladder. It's only supposed to last about 3 months, but in those 3 months of disuse his bladder had deteriorated enough that he didn't get control back. I don't think he's on any ABDL boards anymore, I wonder if he ever retrained himself.

[Infernus]

Thats very true, if you have ever broken a bone, especially a leg, within 6 weeks one leg is significantly larger than the other, muscle wastes pretty fast when not used.

[Creepymouse]

But it isn't as pronounced with the external urinary sphincter, because despite the obstruction, it is still contracting around the catheter. The main reason I'd expect this to cause some form of incontinence after removal would be if the bladder itself shrunk due to prolonged catheterization. That would likely cause a form of urge incontinence, you'd get frequent, small voids, with a stronger sense of urgency than was normal before.

[diaperpt]

To me the key question is who are you going to get to do this procedure unless there is a documented need? You needn't worry about the effect of such if you can't get it done!

Now, I've never done it, but why not just self-cath? Same effect, less expense.

[Bettypooh]

There is a check valve built into it....

....what if there was a way to disable the check-valve and still allow the catheter to sit in there and allow the urine to flow constantly....

Umm, isn't the end result what a regular catheter does?

I may be missing something here (educate me if I am) but why try to reinvent the wheel?

Bettypooh

[BoTox]

Umm, isn't the end result what a regular catheter does?

I may be missing something here (educate me if I am) but why try to reinvent the wheel?

Bettypooh

I think the big draw for him is the lack of external evidence of the catheter. It might also have to do with the sensation sense a cath pretty much insulates all parts of the urethra from urine.

[bookem]

I think the big draw for him is the lack of external evidence of the catheter. It might also have to do with the sensation sense a cath pretty much insulates all parts of the urethra from urine.

Yeah, you nailed it BoToX. For me it was the fact that the cath is all internal, and nothing but two little strings that come out. I wonder if with this method there is lesser risk of UTI since there is some closure. Less chance for stuff to flow back in I guess is what Im thinking. I could be completely wrong.

[KittenAB]

Alright, to cover a lot of what's been said:

1. It's not a normal catheter, there is a magnetically controlled valve that closes off unless you place the magnet right next to it (as stated in the article).

2. Someone pointed out the second point I wanted to make, the muscle of the bladder's sphincter isn't relaxed when something is in there, it actually can get stronger not weaker. Long term catheters do not cause incontinence on their own. While some of the risks of catheters can do so, it's really not an issue with them.

Untraining yourself is about the only possible effect that would lead to that, which is generally not an issue with even actual catheters.

[Bettypooh]

Yeah, you nailed it BoToX. For me it was the fact that the cath is all internal, and nothing but two little strings that come out. I wonder if with this method there is lesser risk of UTI since there is some closure. Less chance for stuff to flow back in I guess is what Im thinking. I could be completely wrong.

Ahhh, I understand now I guess you can tell I've not done that My only cath experience was after abdominal surgery and that felt like it was a red-hot welding rod From what I've learned here that pain might have been 'operator error' on the urologists part, but I'm still spooked from that experience I still like to learn things though; thanks for explaining

Bettypooh

[bookem]

Ahhh, I understand now I guess you can tell I've not done that My only cath experience was after abdominal surgery and that felt like it was a red-hot welding rod From what I've learned here that pain might have been 'operator error' on the urologists part, but I'm still spooked from that experience I still like to learn things though; thanks for explaining

Bettypooh

Yeah, no worries. And to be completely honest, I've never had a cath of any sort. I was more curious then anything. =)

[Billiardnut]

I have used Foley caths off and on for years. You can keep one in place for at least a week if not more. One thing you MUST consider, a foreign body inside of your body will continually be under attack by your body. Therefore - infections are always a risk. I had the very painful and unforunate expierance of a severe infection (I used brand new, top of line cathaters) Needless to say - I do not cath myself anymore. I have had more enjoyment and success (of obtaining less bladder control) just wearing a diaper 24/7 for the last year or so.

[sunwutian]

But it isn't as pronounced with the external urinary sphincter, because despite the obstruction, it is still contracting around the catheter. The main reason I'd expect this to cause some form of incontinence after removal would be if the bladder itself shrunk due to prolonged catheterization.

Fascinating, I'm sure I've read of more than one person using a catheter for several months and finding themselves incontinent afterward. What you say makes sense though. If it weren't true, then an anal plug would work on the same principle to cause fecal incontinence.

So a catheter doesn't work because the muscle stays clenched.

24/7 wearing doesn't work because the muscle auto-clenches during sleep, and that's enough to keep muscle tone.

Hypnosis doesn't work for most because it's nonsense, and susceptibility level is a lifetime constant.

Surgical measures are impossible because only transgenders are allowed BIID treatment.

So it's not possible for almost everyone trying. Really defeats the purpose of arguing whether one "really wants incontinence" or not, doesn't it?

Side question: I've read that there were permanent stents that cannot be removed due to tissue being grown around and on them. But if any foreign object accumulates plaque over time, that would necessitate a stent being removed at least monthly, no?

[Creepymouse]

24/7 wearing doesn't work because the muscle auto-clenches during sleep, and that's enough to keep muscle tone.

It depends on the person, for sure, but I haven't really researched if my PERSONAL success would be any better if I was to set a nighttime alarm for every 3-4 hours.

For most, in my opinion, the problem is twofold. 1) If properly hydrated, and not prone to bedwetting already, one wakes up only when one's bladder is nearing capacity and thus uncomfortable. This certainly doesn't encourage the bladder to shrink, which is a large part of the process. 2) Unconcious 'holding it' during the day does the same thing. And when 'diaper training', one is attempting to change a lifelong habit with associated muscle memory. I found that there were times I could NOT void in a relaxed way, for some reason. Either I had to continue to hold it or I had to 'push' it out. Usually this was while driving or sitting in certain sorts of seating. I think it had more to do with the way that seating creates pressure on the perineum. Anyway, after a little while, the problem changes from being physically difficult to void, to subconscious fear of a leak

[sunwutian]

1) If properly hydrated, and not prone to bedwetting already, one wakes up only when one's bladder is nearing capacity and thus uncomfortable.

I definitely get that. At the very best, I've woken up just as I started to go. Never been able to stay asleep.

2) Unconcious 'holding it' during the day does the same thing.

Also definitely a problem. It's not possible to make a conscious effort the entire time while awake to go as needed. You will eventually start thinking of something else, and there goes the bladder clenching.

Usually this was while driving or sitting in certain sorts of seating.

Very difficult while in a moving vehicle (car or plane), even more so than while walking.

Anyway, after a little while, the problem changes from being physically difficult to void, to subconscious fear of a leak

Indeed. Even now I have great difficulty while lying down in bed. Doesn't help that half the time it really does end up leaking that way. My guess is the physical difficulty and subconscious fear are one and the same, it's just that the latter is when you're a bit more skilled at it.

I think totally getting over it requires you to prevent leaks entirely, but that's really really tough with disposables, and I absolutely cannot sleep except on my side.

[Creepymouse]

OTOH, with bedwetting at least, getting over the fear of leaks does help. A mattress protector, easily laundered bedding, good thick cloth diapers, and TONS of water does help. When I'm able to drink enough water that I can't get fully to sleep, because I'm waking up every ten minutes to wet, I've had the best experiences. I've also gone to bed (with the wife's permission) without plastic pants, knowing the bed would get very damp. Other times, it's been very hot, so we both decided it wouldn't hurt to just wet the bed without diapers.

I think the problem with seating is the bucket-style seat. When I've been riding in the back seat or sitting at my desk, I have no trouble letting go. I mean, I've gone 24/7 for almost six months (I enjoyed it a lot, but can't afford it now) and most social things are no trouble at all. I'd usually go through 2-3 Abenas a day, change once at work, cloth diapers at night.

You know...I have been a member of several "24/7" or "diaper training" support groups, but I think it's too bad that they never seem to do much. It seems like there are enough people who have enjoyed their time 24/7, or diaper trained themselves and don't regret it.

[babykeiff]

This device has a number of problems similar to a Foley catheter in relation to infection, incontinence and long term effects.

Since this device is a foreign object, it can, despite clinical statements made in relation to the design and usage of its material, harbor bacteria and introduce same into the urinary tract, bladder, kidneys and ultimately the blood stream.

Similar to the problems of a Foley, the device blocks the sterilization action of the urinary tract that it is in contact with. Side effects / long term effects can be internal and external sphincter damage and/or prostrate problems.

Long term (28+ days) usage of forcing a sphincter muscle open can cause atropy or weakening of both sphincters. Device forces open both sphincters. This is not a concern in patents with urine retention as problems exist with one or both of said sphincters being unable to open thus causing retention.

Due to the existence (and requirement) of draw wires to remove said device, there is also a home for bacteria to thrive (on the wires). This can cause infection on the urinary tract, which chances are increased if one is diapered. (Cross contamination of feces and urine, and capillary action of urine/feces up the urinary tract using the draw wires as a capillary tube)

Insertion of external device into the urinary canal will damage cells by friction. Repeated insertions will exaggerate this damage.

If this device is used as designed, the bladder will not shrink - as it will be expanding and contracting as normal due to back pressure caused by the indwelling valve. However, if this is used to create incontinence, the bladder WILL lose its elasticity.

This device will create temporary incontinence, but the switch from temporary to permanent is determined by the time period it is left in. Bladder shrinkage, sphincters locked open etc.

The advantage over a Foley catheter is that this device will not kink or pull on the bladder if correctly installed. Installation can be achieved in a domestic environment once care over sterilization is observed.

In my opinion, temporary incontinence is more safely achieved via trigger based hypnosis - ie bladder and/or bowel incontinent only when wearing diapers. Thus the mind is still in full control of the sphincters, and will open them on response from trigger, rather than using a mechanical override device, which will damage said sphincters. This works since the mind still remembers how to use diapers as it did when it was a chronological infant.

[d_drew12]

Looks awesome and want one!!! Wonder what the cost is going to be though. I'm sure I could rig up a way to have the valve open at times. Would be fun. I often wonder if stuff like this could be like elective surgery is someday. Like getting breast implants or lipo, just get a stent! I've done plenty of cath play and left them in for a couple days at a time but the thing I hate the most about foley's is the piece hanging out and the "open" bladder.

[Creepymouse]

In my opinion, temporary incontinence is more safely achieved via trigger based hypnosis - ie bladder and/or bowel incontinent only when wearing diapers. Thus the mind is still in full control of the sphincters, and will open them on response from trigger, rather than using a mechanical override device, which will damage said sphincters. This works since the mind still remembers how to use diapers as it did when it was a chronological infant.

Unfortunately, I (and many others) have been unable to find any success in planting such a trigger.

[sunwutian]

Hypnosis does not work on, dare I say, the majority of people. And although the quality of the hypnotist is important, one's overall susceptibility to it is a life-time constant. Susceptibility can only be temporarily slightly increased by certain drugs (eg nitrous oxide), most of which are illegal. If one has tried a good hypnotist without effect, hypnosis is a lost cause.

And even when it does work, the effects are not real. It's basically the degree to which you delude yourself into believing it is real. Some people are great at that, many are not.

I often wonder if stuff like this could be like elective surgery is someday.

Best bet would be if the medical profession treated it like SRS: require psychotherapy and commitment first. For that to happen, we need to understand why doctors treat gender dysphoria differently than other image integrity disorders and work off of those successes. Very unlikely we'd see such an enlightened view in our lifetime, even most AB/DLs here can't accept that some people actually *really* want this. And even then, it'd still surely be classed as a mental illness in the DSM.

I've worn near 24/7 for years and still have near-retention issues, often don't feel the need to go until it's suddenly uncomfortable, and even then it takes several minutes to go naturally without forcing things. Impossible to even force in certain positions, especially lying down. I wake up almost every other night needing to go and have to get out of bed as a result. And going so much at once greatly increases the risk of leaks, and requires more expensive diapers. This thing would be a positive improvement for me, but they'd never allow it.

[babykeiff]

To answer a lot of people on why hypnosis to wet/mess ones diaper is failing to achieve the desired result - autonomic release of sphincters - needs some understanding on the reason why toilet training is so effective.

Apart from conforming to social norm, there is one major reason that causes an infant to toilet train - and that is comfort. During waking hours, an infant does not care how wet / dry / messy its diaper is. It does care how comfortable it feels, and as s/he matures, will try and ensure its own comfort. The child learns that - via feedback - if it wets/messes its diaper, that the diaper could leak and it will be uncomfortable. The natural, infantile way of wetting / messing when the urge occurs is defeated by the new cognitive ability to understand that a wet and/or a messy diaper could leak.

The only way to defeat this is to convince the child / adult, or better still, get the child/adult to convince itself that the diaper it is wearing will NOT leak, and therefore, not diminish its comfort level.

To revert to the infantile behavior requires a number of steps, each building on the previous.

1 - Diaper self in a thick cloth diaper, using ample diaper cream etc. This diaper has to be thick enough to last 24-48 hours.

2 - At a preset times in the day, change to a clean, equally thick diaper.

The body will learn that no matter what it throws at the diaper, the diaper will not leak, and comfort level will be maintained.

3 - Use hypnosis to enforce the bodies own belief. - with a trigger = wet and/or mess when diapered.

4 - After a while, the body will revert to voiding as and when it needs. At this stage, a thinner diaper / disposable diaper can be employed.

The body will now accept the trigger - that you wet/mess when wearing diapers, and no matter the diaper, your sphincters will open autonomically. However, due to the trigger, you will have full control when you are not wearing diapers.

The purpose of the hypnosis is to set the trigger, and give control when / when not wearing diapers. Your own body WILL revert to the infantile mode of voiding on its own ONCE it is convinced that its comfort level is increased and not decreased when wearing & using diapers.

Hypnosis will not work on its own, as many here can attest to.

Using a mechanical device to wedge your sphincters open etc is not only life threatening, but reminiscent of 16th century medicine - or more correctly, 16th century torture.

[Dill_Pickle]

Hypnosis does not work on, dare I say, the majority of people. And although the quality of the hypnotist is important, one's overall susceptibility to it is a life-time constant. Susceptibility can only be temporarily slightly increased by certain drugs (eg nitrous oxide), most of which are illegal. If one has tried a good hypnotist without effect, hypnosis is a lost cause.

And even when it does work, the effects are not real. It's basically the degree to which you delude yourself into believing it is real. Some people are great at that, many are not.

Having been hypnotised, I can tell you that the effects are quite real and measurable....my best example of this is that I became a much better soccer player after doing about 5 minutes of T'ai Chi on the sidelines waiting to be subbed in...it suddenly got very hard to fake me out and kick the ball past me. I attribute this to a subtle relaxation.

I can also tell you that if you are not relaxed, hypnosis definitely won't work. In particular, if you are worried about the consequences of peeing your diaper, you will hold it in. The only way to overcome that fear is to practice, practice, practice. I practiced, as recommended by lots of people, wearing and using a diaper exclusively during the day, and reminding myself I had more important things to do than go to the bathroom, for about a month and a half before I started regularly beginning to pee without knowing that was what would happen next. I wasn't diapered at night, as the woman who is now my wife has had some rather bad and unromantic experiences with wet beds in the middle of the night. Then, as happens with me, my enthusiasm waned, and diapering became work, and I stopped being diapered constantly. This experience also brought me to the realization that I want to play at being incontinent, but not actually be that way.

[junior]

Technology is getting closer.