Fedex Or Federal Express

[babykeiff]

I purchased a product from Jumpin Jammerz, total value $69.98 including all sales taxes etc, with the shipping charge of $15 per item, The total cost including delivery was $104.98. Jumpin Jammerz chose to use FedEx to post the items. This took 9 working days to get to me, which for international post is slow. I have ordered other items from USA and only have a lead time of 5 working days.

FedEx was the handler, and could only deliver to my home between 9am and 10am, and if I couldn't be there to accept delivery on the two days they offered, I could collect it from their distribution station in Galway (200+ miles away from my home) between the hours of 9am and 5pm on the next day. Otherwise, they were going to return it. I took the morning off work, and the FedEx package got delivered at 11am. I found that the sizes were incorrect, so I contacted Jumpin Jammerz, who asked me to return the products, and they will replace with a larger size, but to include $30 for postage. I did same, packed up the items, and went to my local FedEx to return the items. FedEx stated that the return cost to me would be €144 ( $176.00 ), and it would take 10 days to get to its destination. I went to the local post office, paid €16 ( $19.61) and posted it. It will arrive within 5 working days.

I thought that I had heard the last from FedEx, until I received an invoice in the mail -

VAT 21% on 104.98 = 22.05

Admin Fee....................10.00

STTL..............................32.05

VAT 21% on 32.05.........6.73

TOTAL DUE.................€38.78

for our American cousins, that is $47.53

1- I have already paid VAT to Jumpin Jammerz on purchase.

2- The products have been returned.

3- FedEx should not act on behalf of any government to collect VAT, and should not charge for doing so.

I have purchased goods from countries worldwide, and always pay taxes at source. FedEx, by charging at destination, is breaking international agreements regarding taxes. Also, since they chose to try and charge $176 for shipping outbound, yet $30 for shipping inbound, their actions is elimination any export or import business Ireland has.

Take my advice, DO NOT USE FEDEX for anything.

[TDL]

I use UPS... They're way better.

[timmyc]

never had a problem with either, usually it is up to the shipper, not the buyer, what carrier they use.

[Guest KuroiYukiKit]

I had the oppisite experince, ordered a game from playasia and had it ship from Hong Kong to my home in a single business day when I only paid for the regular shipping service.... Maybe they just kinda had a brain fart with your items.

[Scarth]

I work for fedEx/federal express (there the same company

and really theres no real diffrence from UPS

[Darkfinn]

There is no difference in service between the two carriers.

It is actually up to the shipper to decide who pays VAT on international shipments. They can pay it out of their pocket, or they can choose to charge the customer. Being that I work in international shipping, I deal with this a lot. The shipper probably should have told you that you were being charged VAT. However if you can prove that you returned the items (return slip, receipt, etc.) you shouldn't have to pay it.

[tndyperboy]

I own a company that uses FedEx everyday to ship 100's of packages, we also use UPS. Each company has their strengths and weaknesses. Once you figure them out its fairly simple to pick the most optimal carrier. FedEx for domestic (USA)residential shipments is better because they deliver on Saturdays. UPS has better ground service to Canada then FedEx. FedEx is usually, not always, better internationally. Though UPS is the better choice when having things shipped from Asia to the US.

As for taxes, no US based company that I know of, including mine, are able to collect and remit VAT taxes to a recipient's country. Also, bear in mind that the US does not have a VAT, and most Americans are unaware of those types of taxes. The tax Jumpin Jammerz charged was probably the Sales Tax for the State where they are located. That is a local or domestic tax on retail sales and has nothing to do with your own country's tax laws.

There is an option from both FedEx and UPS where the shipper agrees to pay all duties and taxes, but that is rarely offered. To be blunt, most VAT tax rates are so high as to eliminate 50% or more of our net profit. And we complain enough about US Taxes, we certainly don't want to get involved collecting another country's taxes. And anyway, they don't apply to us as a US based shipper.

Back to FedEx, in my experience shipping internationally the invoice that the OP received is pretty much standard for FedEx. If the shipper does not agree to pay all duties and taxes the recipient gets the bill. By the way, if the OP does not pay the bill FedEx will eventually (takes about 4 months)invoice the shipper. I have one of those issues going on now and since we are a wholesale company and it is with a repeat customer in Canada I am a bit annoyed.

UPS is a bit different, like the Post Office, they will demand payment of duties, taxes and fees before they will deliver. If you don't pay, the package goes back from whence it came.

That concludes the brief discussion on shipping small parcels internationally. Seriously, I hope this helps. If not, ask any questions and I will try to answer.

[wetbear_nb]

That's weird that JJ charged you VAT. They should not have done that. I live in Canada and ordered from JJ. I was never charged any tax on my purchase by JJ. Where I did get taxed was at Canada Customs. Our Customs import laws allows the government to add tax and duty to items shipped from outside of Canada (unless shipped as a "gift"). The tax and duty is added to the shippers bill (DHL in my case)and collected from the customer at time of delivery. I would think that DHL than had to remit the tax and duty collected to Canada Customs

[babykeiff]

There is no difference in service between the two carriers.

It is actually up to the shipper to decide who pays VAT on international shipments. They can pay it out of their pocket, or they can choose to charge the customer. Being that I work in international shipping, I deal with this a lot. The shipper probably should have told you that you were being charged VAT. However if you can prove that you returned the items (return slip, receipt, etc.) you shouldn't have to pay it.

The VAT is not my main gripe with the company, BUT, vat is payable on purchase UNLESS the product is for re-sale. That is Irish and European law. US law complies with that on export also. FedEx have NO right to try and either extract VAT from their destination address, NOR charge them an administrations charge for the privilege!!!

1 -They wanted to charge me 5 - 6 times the amount to return the same package (size, weight, destination) that it cost to send it. - I paid $30 to get it delivered to me from US, and they wanted $176 to return it.

2- I had to collect it from their offices since they were incapable OR unwilling to deliver the package during business hours - only between 9am and 10am. I had to drive 200 miles to collect same package.

tndyperboy,

it is local state taxes that you are liable to pay on sales of goods, and you charge your purchaser said vat despite where s/he is in the world. The purchaser can claim back the paid taxes IF s/he is reselling the product, but the purchaser is liable for local taxes at that stage. What usually happens is that the purchaser / reseller is credited for the amount of taxes s/he has paid on his/her end of year tax returns. However, if the purchaser is NOT reselling the product, and is using it for his/her own use, he is not entitled to claim back out of state / country taxes. With the introduction of the EU and open borders, import duty on goods is zero. Certain products, that need to be registered have an associate fee according to its value - eg. Cars are subject to Vehicle Registration Tax, as are firearms etc.

[tndyperboy]

First, the United States does not have a VAT; such a proposal is usually considered the short road to unemployment for a Member of Congress here. Second, we are not part of the EU and there is no treaty for a US based company to collect another country's VAT. I wouldn't even know what to charge or to whom to send it to. Third, as we do not have a VAT there is no mechanism through our federal income tax for a refund. I actually doubt Jumpin Jammerz charged you sales tax as all export shipments are exempt from that tax. Lastly, whatever VAT you were charged was a consequence of Irish tax law of which I am and shall remain woefully ignorant.

[ErinM]

FedEx have NO right to try and either extract VAT from their destination address, NOR charge them an administrations charge for the privilege!!!

Then don't pay the bill. Seems pretty simple to me.

[Darkfinn]

The VAT is not my main gripe with the company, BUT, vat is payable on purchase UNLESS the product is for re-sale. That is Irish and European law. US law complies with that on export also. FedEx have NO right to try and either extract VAT from their destination address, NOR charge them an administrations charge for the privilege!!!

1 -They wanted to charge me 5 - 6 times the amount to return the same package (size, weight, destination) that it cost to send it. - I paid $30 to get it delivered to me from US, and they wanted $176 to return it.

2- I had to collect it from their offices since they were incapable OR unwilling to deliver the package during business hours - only between 9am and 10am. I had to drive 200 miles to collect same package.

It's called a VOLUME DISCOUNT. Large companies that ship with FedEx get a major discount on prices b/c they ship hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of product every year. I can easily send a small package to Ireland on my company's account for less than $50... where it would cost you several hundred as a regular consumer to send one back here. It's not that new of an idea... tell me you've heard of it before.

And I am really sorry that you had to go so far to pick the package up... but that's what you get for living in BFE nowhere.

[babykeiff]

First, the United States does not have a VAT; such a proposal is usually considered the short road to unemployment for a Member of Congress here. Second, we are not part of the EU and there is no treaty for a US based company to collect another country's VAT. I wouldn't even know what to charge or to whom to send it to. Third, as we do not have a VAT there is no mechanism through our federal income tax for a refund. I actually doubt Jumpin Jammerz charged you sales tax as all export shipments are exempt from that tax. Lastly, whatever VAT you were charged was a consequence of Irish tax law of which I am and shall remain woefully ignorant.

The US HAS VAT. It is that in america, you tend to have your own unique names for it, despite the fact that we both are speaking the same language. You call it 'Sales Tax'. You are correct, that US exports are exempt from Sales tax, but the US, out of courtesy to EU member countries, charge Sales Tax at local state value - ie at the rate that you would charge a US citizen within the same state as the sales occurred.

Irish Tax Laws are only applicable to products purchased within Ireland. I was NOT charged, and cannot be charged VAT (sales tax) at Irish rates, since I was correctly charged Sales Tax by the US company.

PS V.A.T. = Value Added Tax, or Goods and Services Sales Tax.

[babykeiff]

It's called a VOLUME DISCOUNT. Large companies that ship with FedEx get a major discount on prices b/c they ship hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of product every year. I can easily send a small package to Ireland on my company's account for less than $50... where it would cost you several hundred as a regular consumer to send one back here. It's not that new of an idea... tell me you've heard of it before.

And I am really sorry that you had to go so far to pick the package up... but that's what you get for living in BFE nowhere.

Volume discount is all well and good, AND on average, can be up to 60%, but $30 vs $176 not including the price of the box (I was reusing the old FedEx box) That is a discount of greater than 83% FedEx is offering to Jumpin Jammerz.

Using your figures, if FedEx can offer a guaranteed 5 day delivery worldwide at those prices to domestic / one off customers, they could easily close the local mail service providers, and take the monopoly. Would that not be smart business?

I don't live in the middle of nowhere. I live in Dublin, the largest city in Ireland, and its capital. Over 90% of Irish based businesses are located in Dublin, yet FexEd is located 200 miles away from it. FedEx as a business model, is sorely lacking any logic.

ErinM,

I have NO intention of paying FedEx any money, or ever dealing with them again. I have contacted Jumpin Jammerz re the problem, and they are replacing the goods and posting them to me via normal national mail carrier. = US Mail while in the USA, and AnPost, in Ireland.

[Darkfinn]

Dude... your logic is so fucked up I don't even know where to begin. I am the international shipping SPECIALIST at work... we're a $20 million company, so I do international shipments all over the world on a DAILY BASIS.

#1: US companies shipping internationally DO NOT CHARGE SALES TAX, period. Sales tax is only charged if the item being sold is shipped to the same state that the seller resides in, and that is only if the purchaser does not have a tax exemption or resale certificate.

#2: I don't know where you get your "volume discounts can be up to 60%" figure from. But my company's volume discount with FedEx is somewhere in the neighborhood of 79%. It all depends on how big you are and how much you ship. An 83% discount is easily possible.

#3: The "mail service providers" are run by the government and are generally more geared towards delivering letters, bills, and such... they don't do very well with packages. Also, the mail goes places that parcel carriers such as FedEx, DHL, and UPS do not. Little towns way off the beaten path. I have to use the US Postal Service to send items to outposts in Alaska all the time because they are only accessible by air... FedEx and UPS don't go there.

#4: FedEx's business model is pretty damn sound... they have nearly 300,000 employees and are a $40 BILLION company. I'd say they are doing just fine. I'm sorry that their nearest hub is so far away from you, but I'm sure there is a logical reason for its location.

I understand that you are unhappy with your experience... but quit trying to blame the shipping carrier. They merely follow directions given to them by the company whose product they are shipping. Perhaps you should have requested that Jumpin Jammers ship to you via Postal Service or another carrier with a more local location... I'm sure they would have been more than happy to comply with your wishes.

[WallaWalla]

I've only had good experiences with Fedex on this side of the pond.

UPS is much spottier.

Both are better than the USPS.

[redneck diaper boy]

I use Fed-Ex all the time in my occupation. I have had no issues with them. I think my company has a corporate agreement with them.

There is no VAT in America yet. Individual states have sales tax but it is a one time tax. Where I live it is 7.5 percent. The sales tax only applies to the end user. Unlike the local sales tax, the VAT applies to every level of exchange.

I purchased a product from Jumpin Jammerz, total value $69.98 including all sales taxes etc, with the shipping charge of $15 per item, The total cost including delivery was $104.98. Jumpin Jammerz chose to use FedEx to post the items. This took 9 working days to get to me, which for international post is slow. I have ordered other items from USA and only have a lead time of 5 working days.

FedEx was the handler, and could only deliver to my home between 9am and 10am, and if I couldn't be there to accept delivery on the two days they offered, I could collect it from their distribution station in Galway (200+ miles away from my home) between the hours of 9am and 5pm on the next day. Otherwise, they were going to return it. I took the morning off work, and the FedEx package got delivered at 11am. I found that the sizes were incorrect, so I contacted Jumpin Jammerz, who asked me to return the products, and they will replace with a larger size, but to include $30 for postage. I did same, packed up the items, and went to my local FedEx to return the items. FedEx stated that the return cost to me would be €144 ( $176.00 ), and it would take 10 days to get to its destination. I went to the local post office, paid €16 ( $19.61) and posted it. It will arrive within 5 working days.

I thought that I had heard the last from FedEx, until I received an invoice in the mail -

VAT 21% on 104.98 = 22.05

Admin Fee....................10.00

STTL..............................32.05

VAT 21% on 32.05.........6.73

TOTAL DUE.................€38.78

for our American cousins, that is $47.53

1- I have already paid VAT to Jumpin Jammerz on purchase.

2- The products have been returned.

3- FedEx should not act on behalf of any government to collect VAT, and should not charge for doing so.

I have purchased goods from countries worldwide, and always pay taxes at source. FedEx, by charging at destination, is breaking international agreements regarding taxes. Also, since they chose to try and charge $176 for shipping outbound, yet $30 for shipping inbound, their actions is elimination any export or import business Ireland has.

Take my advice, DO NOT USE FEDEX for anything.

[AutieAB]

The US HAS VAT. It is that in america, you tend to have your own unique names for it, despite the fact that we both are speaking the same language. You call it 'Sales Tax'.

Sort of but not quite. Sales tax and Value Added Tax are only similar in that they're a tax on the value of items bought and sold. How they're calculated and managed are actually quite different. VAT is more complicated but supposedly fairer. Of course, whether that's actually true or not, you'd probably need to be an economist to work out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax#Comparison_with_a_sales_tax

Anyway, wrestling myself back on topic, I've never had any problem with FedEx. Admittedly I never used them in Europe but here in my part of the US, they're more reliable than UPS (FedEx's Ground service seems faster cross-country as well).

[PrincessDragonette]

I have had experience dealing with both UPS and Fed-ex on a regular basis at work, I was a truck driver. Fed-ex hubs are logical, efficient, they treat their employees AND outside carriers (me) well and they seem to give a flying [expletive] about their image. UPS went out of their way to make sure I felt unwelcome on their property. They were almost always poorly maintained, dirty and dank. I have been delayed more at their facilities than at any of the other package handling hubs I've dealt with, except for maybe DHL. Granted, there are probably exceptions, but having been to more than my fair share of UPS and Fed-Ex hubs, I gotta say Fed-Ex is the better company.

Maybe it changes when you start shipping overseas, I don't know, in that I'll listen to Darkfinn as I have no experience in the matter.

[Darkfinn]

FedEx may be the nicer company... but have you looked at their financials lately? They are just barely hanging on.

[Bettypooh]

FedEx may be the nicer company... but have you looked at their financials lately? They are just barely hanging on.

You said on June 27 that:

#4: FedEx's business model is pretty damn sound... they have nearly 300,000 employees and are a $40 BILLION company. I'd say they are doing just fine.

Something going on here

Bettypooh

[PrincessDragonette]

FedEx may be the nicer company... but have you looked at their financials lately? They are just barely hanging on.

No, I can't say I have looked. I was just sharing that from my experience they perform consistently better than their competitors. If what you're saying is true, it's too bad that that doesn't result in more profit.

It doesn't surprise me though. Being a "nice" company seems to have nothing to do with profits unfortunately.

[Scarth]

FedEx express is down ALOT over 40% from 2007 but thats just the express part .. FedEx Ground is up over 30% in the same time frame and does more then 300times the packages the the express side

[Sojourner]

UPS is far superior to FedEx. UPS has never, ever been late on any parcels shipped to me. If they say it will be there on a certain day, it is there. Without fail. With FedEx, every item has been at least one day late, half my items have been damaged to a degree, and the cost has been higher. Another factor in Fed Ex's spotty shipping logistics: they frequently contract USPS to provide delivery in whole or part of their parcels. The only time I use USPS is if it's Priority Mail. I can rely on it as well.

[babykeiff]

I, on a regular basis, purchase products from all over the world, and deal with numerous handling companies to do so. The costs work out as this... Product cost + n% local sales tax + (calculated by weight/size) delivery cost. This total amount is paid to the vendor. Within a number of days, (normaly 5-7 working days) the delivery company knocks on my door with the product, and requests a signature as proof of delivery. NO OTHER COSTS ARE DUE by anyone. This holds true for any product unless it is a restricted product that requires customs clearance, and associated duty and liceence. In that case, I will recieve a letter from the customs department asking me to collect said product in person within 21 days, and pay associated costs. If I refuse, a warrant will be out for my arrest for attempting to import an illegal substance etc.

The above holds true and it does not matter from what country in the world I order said product, or whomever I chose (or the vendor choses ) to act as delivery agent. - I correct this, it held true for all delivery agents except FedEx. The extra charges that they are imposing is extortion. If the customs in this country requested extra charges to be paid on products, I would be requested to pay such, by same within 21 days. FedEx have NO RIGHT to try and extort money under false pretences.

Re the return costs - I am fully aware of the concept of bulk buying. I am also fully aware of the logistics involved in shipping parcels to specific destinations. The costs quoted would only make sence IF these were true 1- USA get little to no mail. 2- Ireland gets a much higher mail from US than the US recieves. 3-The return time would be less than the send time. The logic is - if the US get less mail than Ireland, then it would take longer to get a full load so as to make the trip commercially viable. If Ireland gets more mail from the US, that would make the individual packet cost much less. The return time would be much less = there would not be a holding time in a distribution centre while the company waits for a full load before sending.

Some facts.... if you didn't know. The amount of mail entering the US by aircraft exceeds at least by twice its nearest competitor. There is more 'mail' air traffic than 'passenger' air traffic (normally by a factor of 3). Using fractional distribution centres (numerous hubs where local offices deliver to, and increasing in size and capacity) reduces the individual delivery cost per article to be less than $1.00. If you doubt me in this, the average stamp cost is around $1 / £1 / €1, and that will take that envelope almost half way round the world, and still generate a profit for the carrier.

The logic of 'bulk buying' and 'reduced cost' for a company does make sence, but the difference between an individual contract vs a companies cost is in the 30-40% discount range, not 80+%!

What I read from the way FedEx was treating me as a customer, is that they didn't want my, or an individuals personal business. They prefer to deal with large corporate customers where they are sending multiple items on a daily basis to other companies. In that way, it reduces FedEx's costs, and removes the need for FedEx to employ small delivery vans capable of handling housing estates etc.

If you haven't got it at this stage, I will NEVER deal with FedEx again, either as an individual, nor as a company.