Biid...This May Be What You Have

[d_drew12]

I read this magazine article years ago about people with BIID. Body Integrity Identity Disorder. Simply put, it's about people who feel there body isn't complete the way it is. It was mainly stories about people who didn't feel whole having certain limbs, fingers, etc. and wanted them amputated! This desire to amputate is also called Apotemnophilia. Now, at first I couldn't believe these people, I mean, there are so many people who want there limbs back and to remove a perfectly healthy limb just seemed crazy. Then there was this guy who's wife was a doctor and he had this life long desire to remove a leg, be in a wheelchair and become incontinent!!! She actually performed the surgeries and he now felt more complete than ever living his new life.

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!!! Does this mean like many here who have the desire to become incontinent they have BIID. Afterall, many do not feel complete having there continence. Many are willing to harm there own bodies trying to damage muscles by insert catheters, or whatever they may do because getting surgery done without going underground is vertually impossible not to mention embarrassing to most to tell a doctor of there desires. Most doctors will likely not perform these surgeries. Many of the Apotemnophilia's have tried cutting off there own limbs or going to some foreign land to have it done their desires that strong. Many have died during the attempt. The quote below really makes you question why doctors won't perform these surgeries.

"And to be honest, haven't surgeons made the human body fair game? You can pay a surgeon to suck fat from your thighs, lengthen your penis, augment your breasts, redesign your labia, even (if you are a performance artist) implant silicone horns in your forehead or split your tongue like a lizard's. Why not amputate a limb?"

It seems pretty crazy all of the alterations you can do to your body but nobody will remove a limb or probably make you incontinent if you wanted to, not that I know of anyway.

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/issues/2000/12/elliott.htm

You can read all about Apotemnophilia at the link above, it's pretty long but really describes the amputation part more than anything but isn't cutting out the sphinctor muscle of the bladder an amputation in itself?

I think for the transexual people, before they have gender reasignment, they must take hormones and live like the opposite sex for a year before the doctor will touch them with a knife. Probably to prevent "buyers remorse" so to speak. I'm sure if any incontinent desiring person here followed the 12 month program, they may not need to see a doctor at all as incontinence may have already set in.

http://joanneproctor-hbs.blogspot.com/2008/12/psychiatric-politics-look-whos-lobbying.html

Another link here also describes BIID as not just wanting limbs removed but even crushing ones spine to become a parapalegic.

So on top of the infantilism is there also a BIID that goes along with it? I'm sure not everyone that like diapers as part of there life wants to be fully incontinent but I just thought of this article and wondered if anyone realised they may be able to put a name to there desires.

So what do ya think?

[Guest MunchKitten]

I think theres some messed up people in da world! (and people call US wierd!)

[curiositykilledthecat]

now there's a mental disorder if I ever heard one.

[Brudda Voodu]

I once felt a strange kinship to a stray cat. I felt that he and I were so compatible that we should remain together as one sentient being. I fastened the cat to my leg with a spool of fishing line and a used hypodermic needle. The next few months were a difficult yet rewarding experience, I would recommend this practice for any who feel they may be missing something from their life.

Sincerely

Voodu

note*

It is unwise to fasten an animal to your flesh without first thoroughly disinfecting the creature with an alcohol based solution.

[ABU0001]

I think the big issue for most doctors would be the lawsuits if it turned out that it wasn't nearly as fun for the amputee/new incontinent person/etc as it was in their mind before the operation...

Silicone horns can be removed, the tongues could be restitched, but it is difficult to sew back on an arm. It probably isn't that different to sex change surgery however as that would probably be difficult to reverse. However, it is possible to essentially live as the opposite gender, as most differences are hard to see (unless you were a girl who wanted to be a boy and happened to have enormous breasts...). it is less possible to live as an amputee while still actually having the appendage.

[sarah_ab]

there are some ground breaking new studies being done regarding those people who do not feel certain limbs 'belong' to them, and there is some very compelling evidence to suggest there is actually a neurological basis for this.

in one of the test electrodes were placed on both of the person's limbs, the one they feel is theirs and the one they dont feel is theirs, and then they were hooked up to brain wave monitors, there was a significant difference in response when a small shock was given to the limb they believed was there than when the shock was given to the limb the person felt did not belong.

its not always a mental disorder in regards to this particular phenomenon...

however, i am not sure where people wanting to be incontinent would fall, and the gentleman who wanted to be incontinent and in a wheel chair may not have felt his limb didn't belong to him, but rather that having it amputated would be a means to an end.. ie. ending up in the chair...

[diaperpt]

there are some ground breaking new studies being done regarding those people who do not feel certain limbs 'belong' to them, and there is some very compelling evidence to suggest there is actually a neurological basis for this.

in one of the test electrodes were placed on both of the person's limbs, the one they feel is theirs and the one they dont feel is theirs, and then they were hooked up to brain wave monitors, there was a significant difference in response when a small shock was given to the limb they believed was there than when the shock was given to the limb the person felt did not belong.

its not always a mental disorder in regards to this particular phenomenon...

however, i am not sure where people wanting to be incontinent would fall, and the gentleman who wanted to be incontinent and in a wheel chair may not have felt his limb didn't belong to him, but rather that having it amputated would be a means to an end.. ie. ending up in the chair...

There sure is a lot we don't understand about the human body and mind. This sure does sound weird - to me. Wanting to wear and use diapers seems very weird to the general public. I reserve the right to think something is weird.

It's hard to find the line of just accepting that someone has ideas that are different from the general public, thinking they are weird but basically 'healthy', and feeling strongly that there is something 'wrong' with them.

Because of the diaper thing especially but for good reason as well, we're all down on pedophilia (at least I hope so!). I think this falls fairly in between BAD (like pedophilia) and perfectly normal and OK (like wearing and using diapers ). It seems that something isn't quite right, but I'd want to sympathize or empathize with someone who felt they needed to get rid of a limb.

Science has helped us understand the basis of many gender identity issues and to be more understanding and accepting (well, some of us...and don't go bashing Christians...I'm a Christian who does NOT condemn homosexuals or those with various gender identities). From what Sarah has said, science may be close to helping us understand these people as well...and help them in constructive ways, whatever that might be, in spite of what our own opinions might be.

Each of us has our own criteria for making judgements and so we probably won't agree on stuff like this. By the same token, I'd add that for anyone to say they aren't judgmental is just wrong...perhaps in their judgment they think everything is OK...but they are making judgments.

[Yvhuce]

I believe a person should be allowed any body modification he/she/ze wishes

I agree with that, but with the stipulation that those who choose body modifications that result in disabilities shouldn't be allowed to file for disability or receive any form of disability benefits. They shouldn't be allowed to become a drain on the rest of us.

[Bettypooh]

I agree with that, but with the stipulation that those who choose body modifications that result in disabilities shouldn't be allowed to file for disability or receive any form of disability benefits. They shouldn't be allowed to become a drain on the rest of us.

I think this is the most logical answer so far but logic is only part of things. Those wishing to have a perfectly good limb removed are weird but hey- it's their life. not mine, and I'm kind of weird too I really don't think we've got the right to judge another person's desires as long as they aren't hurting any innocent people along the way If they want it and can afford it, then let them have it their way. There shouldn't be any recousre if it doesn't turn out like they thought it would unless the surgeon was inept or incompetent People really should understand that getting what you ask for isn't the same as getting what you want and that sometimes you just can't get what you want- so you have to learn to live with that I'd list my 'wants' for you but it would wear out my keyboard and likely bore you to death anyway

Bettypooh

[BoTox]

Not to deprive anyone of a life they desire but they should have to prove they have a plan for coping after the "modification" is completed. So few people plan past the fantasy stage. If you are going to be a leg amputee, you need to think about a wheelchair, ramps, a modified car, financial obligations and work.

Same for an incontinent wannabe that gets "fixed" by having bladder and/or bowel control removed. You would need to have coping skills already in place and be financially able to pay for at least a thousand diapers a year before you should be allowed to continue. It is the only way to make sure the delusional don't sneak in and try something they will regret.

This may preclude the people with less than the means to accomplish this but your rights end when I have to start paying for them out of my pocket. After all, it is elective even if you feel it is necessary for a fulfilling life.

[sarah_ab]

I guess the thing to remember about these people who feel a limb is not their own ARE NOT FANTSIZING

IT IS A NEUROLOGICAL DISORDER IN WHICH THEY HAVE NO CONTROL

i agree they need a plan of care if they have the limb removed, but it is not just a fantasy for them, it is a neurological condition, one in which there is no treatment, no cure, except to remove the limb.

this differs from those who want to be anamputee or in a wheelchair, these people dont WANT to be an amputee, they dont have any fantasy of that, rather, they want to stop havin to live with the feeling that their body or part of their body is not theres, that it is a parasite.

They dont get off on the idea of people treating them like they are disabled, of the attention they will receive from not having a limb, or being in a chair. THey dont want any of that, they simply want to feel like a whole person, even if that means losing part of themself.

people who just 'want to be an amputee' however, do not have a neurological condition, they dont feel that their limbs dont belong to them, their motives are entirely different.

[d_drew12]

however, i am not sure where people wanting to be incontinent would fall, and the gentleman who wanted to be incontinent and in a wheel chair may not have felt his limb didn't belong to him, but rather that having it amputated would be a means to an end.. ie. ending up in the chair...

From what I remember, the guy didn't feel complete having the leg, like you said in another post, almost like a parasite. This is why some people tried cutting it off themselves. If I remember correctly though, he wanted to be incontinent and be in a wheelchair, not sure if this was a desire, a fantasy to need to be cared for but I don't know for sure. I just remember being shocked reading this and thinking, this poor guy, I can't imagine having those types of desires.

I was reading the magazine about 4 years ago at a Great Clips, probably a readers digest or something along those lines you'd find in a haircut shop. I was reading as fast as I could and hoping I wouldn't get called next before I finished it. I've tried to search it online for the article but nothing so far.

I think most people desires here of becoming incontinent are driven by more of a cause and effect. A desire to "need" diapers which fuels the fetish. A feeling of needing to be cared for. So maybe it's less of a desire to be incontinent but more a desire to have reason for wearing diapers and wetting them would be one. The desire to have incontinence would really just be a wetting fetish than a diaper fetish. Maybe it's both, I don't know.

[marko]

The person you mentioned is me ,but just to sort out one thing with you said I did not want to become an amputee but a paraplegic,witch I have become with the help of my wife.How we did it I will not reviel on this site as we will nottake responcibility for others who want to harm themselfs.I went through legthy psycological evaluation and threpy before we did this.

Yes I do think if a person after evauation by a shrink does want to become incontent through medical means it should be possible for them to do so

[AutieAB]

Then there was this guy who's wife was a doctor and he had this life long desire to remove a leg, be in a wheelchair and become incontinent!!! She actually performed the surgeries and he now felt more complete than ever living his new life.

I'm not sure I believe this actually happened, to be honest. Unless it was done in a 'backroom OR', there's no way on earth that the hospital's ethics committee would have approved the surgery. There's just too many problems with it: (1) Not a medical necessity (2) It's a risky surgery, some major arteries and nerve groups in your upper leg/hip area (3) It would lower (from a 'normal' PoV) the patient's quality of life (4) It would be performed by a close family member (5) Potential for acrimony and lawsuits is through the roof (6) Against recommended treatment for BIID (which without even looking, I'm sure involves a psych, not a surgeon).

[marko]

I'm not sure I believe this actually happened, to be honest. Unless it was done in a 'backroom OR', there's no way on earth that the hospital's ethics committee would have approved the surgery. There's just too many problems with it: (1) Not a medical necessity (2) It's a risky surgery, some major arteries and nerve groups in your upper leg/hip area (3) It would lower (from a 'normal' PoV) the patient's quality of life (4) It would be performed by a close family member (5) Potential for acrimony and lawsuits is through the roof (6) Against recommended treatment for BIID (which without even looking, I'm sure involves a psych, not a surgeon).

this was carried out in tygerberg hospital with aproval of the director and my wife is my doctor,I did not have my leg removed I had my lower body paralyzed from the waist down .Since having had it done I am a whole person

[d_drew12]

this was carried out in tygerberg hospital with aproval of the director and my wife is my doctor,I did not have my leg removed I had my lower body paralyzed from the waist down .Since having had it done I am a whole person

Well thank you for clearing this up. You know I thought to myself, maybe this person is on this board since they wanted to become incontinent but thought it was a slim chance. I couldn't remember all the details so obviously I crossed up a couple of the stories in the article or some of the information. I knew there was a wheelchair factor and incontinence, just thought I remembered leg removal since the wheelchair was involved and the article was also about amputies. Now that you mention the paralyzation thing, it does make the gears in my head turn to think that maybe what I read and it must have been if you're really the guy.

Maybe you can post the article or tell us what magazine it was in. Enlighten us all on how you feel and your day to day life before and after if you're willing.

Thanks again for clearing it up and sorry about the mistakes.

[AutieAB]

Surprised nobody has mentioned this. Did anyone happen to watch 'Mental' on Fox the other night? US people can watch it here (Ep.12, 'Life and Limb').

[Aleia]

This isn't a matter of different tastes--it's a serious mental illness. These people are miles out of touch with reality, and could do drastic harm to themselves and others if they don't get the right psychiatric treatment. A doctor who "fixes" a healthy, normal, intact body by mutilating it is not only doing physical damage, but he is also feeding the person's delusion of incompleteness. That is a serious violation of the Hippocratic Oath, whereby doctors swear to "Do No Harm." Any doctor who performs an amputation on a BIID patient should lose his or her license AND go to jail.

[Mingo]

This isn't a matter of different tastes--it's a serious mental illness. These people are miles out of touch with reality, and could do drastic harm to themselves and others if they don't get the right psychiatric treatment. A doctor who "fixes" a healthy, normal, intact body by mutilating it is not only doing physical damage, but he is also feeding the person's delusion of incompleteness. That is a serious violation of the Hippocratic Oath, whereby doctors swear to "Do No Harm." Any doctor who performs an amputation on a BIID patient should lose his or her license AND go to jail.

I have a serious question for you: Can people decide their own fate? Why do they need to be told how to live their lives?

"Do no harm"? He made the guy's life more livable. How did he "harm" him?

[sarah_ab]

This isn't a matter of different tastes--it's a serious mental illness. These people are miles out of touch with reality, and could do drastic harm to themselves and others if they don't get the right psychiatric treatment. A doctor who "fixes" a healthy, normal, intact body by mutilating it is not only doing physical damage, but he is also feeding the person's delusion of incompleteness. That is a serious violation of the Hippocratic Oath, whereby doctors swear to "Do No Harm." Any doctor who performs an amputation on a BIID patient should lose his or her license AND go to jail.

since when is a neurological condition a mental illnes????? for many people it is a NEUROLOGICAL ILLNESSS NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS!!!

i'm sorry but there is a lot of misconception out there, many people who are diagnosed as having a mental illness actually have a neurological illness, there is a HUGE difference especially for those who have been misdiagnosed and continuously have to tell people the difference between the two types of illness'.

New research has shown there is a distinct difference in the body's physiological reaction to stimulus on both limbs, with the patient completely unaware of which limb is going to receive the stimulation and as such unable to 'fake' any responses.

if someone had a third foot growing out of their leg, this foot caused no medical problems, but created incredible emotional distress, to the point the person did not want to live anymore, would it be ok to remove that foot? or should they have to keep it and potentially commit suicide?

[superdiaperbaby]

This isn't a matter of different tastes--it's a serious mental illness. These people are miles out of touch with reality, and could do drastic harm to themselves and others if they don't get the right psychiatric treatment. A doctor who "fixes" a healthy, normal, intact body by mutilating it is not only doing physical damage, but he is also feeding the person's delusion of incompleteness. That is a serious violation of the Hippocratic Oath, whereby doctors swear to "Do No Harm." Any doctor who performs an amputation on a BIID patient should lose his or her license AND go to jail.

Doctors no longer are required to take the Old Hippocratic Oath. Now most graduates take the Oath of Lasagna(for real):

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_modern.html

SDB

[marko]

this is just to clear up a few things ,dont tell people how to jive there lives you dont know what I was going through before I became paralyzed,I was not a whole person now I am complete now I can live my life as it was supposed to be,no more pretending .People who knew me before have told me I am a better person now .I dont make claims to the state for help or anything I suport myself.to all you high and rightios you should get of youre high horses and do some research to what BIID is before you critize me for what I did.Wanting to be inconteint is also a form of BIID .