Does Society Force Kids To Grow Up?

[DL88]

Sarah, since when did anybody post anything rascist on this thread....or has it just been a long day of work in the retarded Florida heat and I'm missing something? Unless I am missing something big, would you happen to be just one of those people that thinks that just because someone doesn't like Obama they MUST be racist? It very well could be I'm missing something and I'm just too lazy to check just fyi.

You guys should read the subtext before you enter because in the main list of forums right under, "The Rest of your Life!" is says that this is all uncensored and to enter at your own risk. Politics and Religion go here as well even though it is a little off-topic from this current thread, it was bound to get included because of the close correlation.

Speaking of rick rolling

[sarah_ab]

so i made a post, to respond. but i'm not going to, or i'm going to be do what i've been complaining about..

yes this is the rest of your life area, and yes we can discuss whatever we want, my point is, people seem to bring their politics and religion into EVERY SINGLE post they make.

ENOUGH already.... why not justpost on the topic at hand and stop trying to tell eveyone youw beliefs? if you want them to know, start a thread entitled "my beliefs and why i believ i am right about everything"

its just annoying when people are continously hijacking threads to discuss the same stupid thing over and over andover.

and it is always the same stuff "blah obama is bad" followed by "blah no bush was bad" followed by numerous back andforths where no ones mind is ever changed.. just seems like a GIANT waste of time on both sides...

heck i've wasted my own time just saying this.. so i'm done now...

[Yvhuce]

Uhg... The old political arguements... Here's something some of you may remember from way back when... Or maybe not... But here's the simple truth: Almost every politician is corrupt and evil! In some way, they all are literally out to get us. And no, it's not a conspiracy, most of the time. They're each in it for their own personal gain, and it just compounds... Most of the time, they're also out to get eachother, too... They don't give a flying f*** about you or the country, or anything that doesn't directly benefit them... It honestly doesn't matter all that much who wins what election anymore... We'd still be in the same situation, more or less, if McCane, or even Stephen Colbert won... Among other things, it's stupid to blame any one president for something that many of them caused over several decades that happened to finally hit the fan when someone else was in office...

The economy was headed for a collapse ever since the last collapse, because it's set up to screw people over until doing so can't be supported anymore and it falls in on itself. I warned people about this years ago and they laughed at me. Now, many of them're jobless and either bankrupt or heading there, and wishing they'd listened...

Clear as mud?

Anyhow... Back to the real topic of this thread...

Among other things, the benefits of being potty trained include the lack of ridicule by the public and the kids' classmates and "friends" (and family of friends, and friends of friends, etc.). Let's face it... Kids can be the meanest people on the planet at times. So, if nothing else, potty training is a means of helping ensure one's kids' survival in the world. You can be the sweetest, most loving and well-meaning parent in all of existence, but not potty training your kids could be a very cruel thing to do to them... The public hates that which is different. So, many of us who're different either tend to learn to adapt or wind up avoiding the public as much as possible...

Me? I'm short, harry, Native American, wear glasses, and have scars from particularly bad bouts with chicken pox and shingles (most noticable are teh big scar on my left wrist and the scars in my eyebrows and on my face [ignorant ************************************s thought it was ringworm]). I also suck at sports. I'm also smart. Not a good combination to toss into the public school system... I can only imagine the flack that a kid who wears diapers to school would face...

I still shudder to think what would happen if it got out to the townfolk that I wear diapers, now... It went over like an anvil trying to be a balloon with my family... There's a very big reason I don't practice the 24/7 in diapers thing, beyond the family thing... I'd rather not have to move to another state to avoid being constantly harassed, avoided, or being unable to have people look me in the eye... No... It's much better for me and people like me to have been potty trained and spared at least that one shred of dignity...

[sarah_ab]

have scars from particularly bad bouts with chicken pox and shingles (most noticable are teh big scar on my left wrist and the scars in my eyebrows and on my face

scars are just tattoos with better stories..

just tell people one summer you went away to visit an aunt or uncle and on the drive there saw a horrible car crash and got the scars trying to save the family from the burning vehicle...

or maybe u got them as you ran into the street to save a toddle from getting run over... risking your life for its...

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

I hate it when people don't answer my questions.

If i'm not mistaken, i have answered all of your questions to the best of my ability. Sorry if my responses were not what you wanted to hear, but I'm not a conformist and never will be. And surprise! There are many parents who are following this trend--consensual living and the like. Please go back through my posts, and you will, no doubt, find that I have, indeed, answered your questions.

Oh, I just rememberd, I did not answer your question about being naked in front of your kids. It is not sexual abuse if you are not actually trying to commit the Oedipus Complex, which is physically lying down and having sex relations with your child, which is sick, and people who do this should be shot!!!!!!!!!!!

Kids see parents nude all the time. It is not unheard of. If society pushes me too hard, i'll prance the streets in my diapers and a T-shirt to show them to get over themselves and that there is no shame. If I want to sit around in my diapers in my own home, then that is my business. Diapers are another form of underwear. People sit in their homes in T-shirts and underwear all the time with kids around, and men run around in boxers. Hell, they even go out to get the paper dressed like that. It is not like I'm having sex with my husband in front of my kids.

Now ... I have, truly in deed, answered ALL of your questions.

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

I would show my child the potty and read them books about potty training and see if they want to do it. Maybe show them the underwear too and see if they want to wear them.

But I heard about kids quitting on their own. They decide one day they want to use the potty. Hopefully that will happen with my child and I won't have to worry about being a hypocrite.

I don't have to beat them over the head with potty training books, which by the way keep the stigma of incontinence alive by sending kids the message that diapers are for babies and that if they use the potty, they are all grown up. like hell I want my kids reading that trash! Diapers are not just for babies. Diapers are worn by professionals, executives, doctors, lawyers, and people of all walks of life. i feel that sending those types of messages through reading those potty training books would make me a first-class hypocrite, as then I'd be teaching my children a lie. While lying about my children having overactive bladder was probably not the right thing to do, it was what I knew to do at the time to protect them from being tainted by this world. At least my children will not be brainwashed with the proproganda that all tots are. I felt that I had to do what I needed to protect my children's individuality. What's worse, teaching them a lie that could carry with them through adulthood and wound them mentally and emotionally or lying to protect them? Sometimes, the lesser of the evils has to be chosen.

My children know what the potty is. It is not like they have not seen adults use the potty. Is that considered sexual abuse to allow a child in the bathroom with an adult to watch the adult to use the bathroom? I think not. As a matter of fact, much of the potty training literature actually recommends that children who are learning to watch others using to toilet. From a very young age, my children have seen people--my husband, my parents, their cousins, their aunts and uncles, and eeven their friends, use the potty. It is not like I've locked them out of the bathroom and have kept them sheltered and that they have never heard of a potty. Children are much smarter than most give them credit for. Children just don't learn what adults show them. They are not just sitting there waiting to be shown the next thing by an adult. They are not computers that are waiting for the next direction or command. They can and are capable of learning on their own and doing on their own, which a lot of children do. Children learn from watching and immitating. This is why I don't waste a lot of time telling my children what to do, telling my children how to act. As I've said in previous posts, if I seriously want my children to act in a certain way, I model it myself. That said, my children have seen the potty and have seen people use it in ever sense of the word. They have chosen not to. Well, my daughter is now showing an interest. That choice, she made on her own without prompting or commanding or brainwashing from an adult figure.

Sending this message that diapers = baby and potty = grownup is the reason that children who wet the bed can't even have a normal childhood and have sleep overs. They must hide from their friends and cover up things with lies. They can't be themselves. They can't have the confidence that normal children have. Why? Because when they are learning to use the potty, they are shamed for having accidents. It does not matter how cool you make Good Nights look--they now have that boxer look. The dammage has already been done during potty training. The image is forever painted in them that they are the scum of the earth when they have an accident. They associate that with the withholding of love and the disapproval from their parents. And, just think, this is the reason that many incontinent adults don't report their incontinence, hwich later turns out to be a sign of a serious underlying medical problem--MS, bladder cancer, diabetes, kidney cancer, kidney disease, kidney infection, just to name a few. Just think, people could have a UTI that goes untreated and kills them because they never got help. Incontinence is not an illness, it is a symptom of some underlying cause. But because it is deeply rooted into their brains that accidents = bad, these adults never get help, and then a condition ravages their lives. But, if they only got help earlier...

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

Uhg... The old political arguements... Here's something some of you may remember from way back when... Or maybe not... But here's the simple truth: Almost every politician is corrupt and evil! In some way, they all are literally out to get us. And no, it's not a conspiracy, most of the time. They're each in it for their own personal gain, and it just compounds... Most of the time, they're also out to get eachother, too... They don't give a flying f*** about you or the country, or anything that doesn't directly benefit them... It honestly doesn't matter all that much who wins what election anymore... We'd still be in the same situation, more or less, if McCane, or even Stephen Colbert won... Among other things, it's stupid to blame any one president for something that many of them caused over several decades that happened to finally hit the fan when someone else was in office...

The economy was headed for a collapse ever since the last collapse, because it's set up to screw people over until doing so can't be supported anymore and it falls in on itself. I warned people about this years ago and they laughed at me. Now, many of them're jobless and either bankrupt or heading there, and wishing they'd listened...

Clear as mud?

Anyhow... Back to the real topic of this thread...

Among other things, the benefits of being potty trained include the lack of ridicule by the public and the kids' classmates and "friends" (and family of friends, and friends of friends, etc.). Let's face it... Kids can be the meanest people on the planet at times. So, if nothing else, potty training is a means of helping ensure one's kids' survival in the world. You can be the sweetest, most loving and well-meaning parent in all of existence, but not potty training your kids could be a very cruel thing to do to them... The public hates that which is different. So, many of us who're different either tend to learn to adapt or wind up avoiding the public as much as possible...

Me? I'm short, harry, Native American, wear glasses, and have scars from particularly bad bouts with chicken pox and shingles (most noticable are teh big scar on my left wrist and the scars in my eyebrows and on my face [ignorant ************************************s thought it was ringworm]). I also suck at sports. I'm also smart. Not a good combination to toss into the public school system... I can only imagine the flack that a kid who wears diapers to school would face...

I still shudder to think what would happen if it got out to the townfolk that I wear diapers, now... It went over like an anvil trying to be a balloon with my family... There's a very big reason I don't practice the 24/7 in diapers thing, beyond the family thing... I'd rather not have to move to another state to avoid being constantly harassed, avoided, or being unable to have people look me in the eye... No... It's much better for me and people like me to have been potty trained and spared at least that one shred of dignity...

that could be changed if people would just change their mindset and their attitude. This attitude is why those who do have medical problems are constantly the butt of jokes and are ridiculed for something they cannot help. Toddlers and children are our biggest victims because if there is seriously a medical problem present, the tot does not possess the reasoning and the communication skills, let alone does not have enough of a vocabulary to express what the problem is and that they are not doing it on purpose. So, it is automatically assumed that because they are a toddler, they are having accidents on purpose and are scolded and even beaten depending upon the parent. I can't tell you how many incontinent people I've heard tell the story of being punished all their childhoods for something they had no control over. So sad...

[Nat]

If i'm not mistaken, i have answered all of your questions to the best of my ability. Sorry if my responses were not what you wanted to hear, but I'm not a conformist and never will be. And surprise! There are many parents who are following this trend--consensual living and the like. Please go back through my posts, and you will, no doubt, find that I have, indeed, answered your questions.

Oh, I just rememberd, I did not answer your question about being naked in front of your kids. It is not sexual abuse if you are not actually trying to commit the Oedipus Complex, which is physically lying down and having sex relations with your child, which is sick, and people who do this should be shot!!!!!!!!!!!

Kids see parents nude all the time. It is not unheard of. If society pushes me too hard, i'll prance the streets in my diapers and a T-shirt to show them to get over themselves and that there is no shame. If I want to sit around in my diapers in my own home, then that is my business. Diapers are another form of underwear. People sit in their homes in T-shirts and underwear all the time with kids around, and men run around in boxers. Hell, they even go out to get the paper dressed like that. It is not like I'm having sex with my husband in front of my kids.

Now ... I have, truly in deed, answered ALL of your questions.

I asked about what are you going to do now about your daughter because you have lied all these years about her having an over active bladder. Can a child go from an overactive bladder to a normal bladder? That's why I don't finding lying a good idea because it can come back to you and what if the child does decide to quit wearing diapers later on? Then what are you going to say to people about your kid's bladder being normal all of a sudden? I think people would find out your secret. Well it's your problem now.

My mom stopped being naked in front of us a long time ago and my dad too. He has walked around in his underwear only or boxers but never with his penis showing. My mom, she never walked naked or let my brothers see her naked when they got older. She has been naked in front of me when she get dressed but I'm a girl so that was different. She won't let my brothers see her naked but it was different when they were babies and toddlers. My mom won't even walk around the house in her bra and panties. I guess I come from another planet because my family was different than yours.

I don't understand why it's okay for babies and toddlers to see their parent naked who has the opposite gender than them but not okay to see them naked when they get to elementary school. But it's okay to see anyone naked when you get to a nude beach and yes kids can go to them too.

I also asked how does MS keep you from waiting in lines. I know you have said it makes you not be able to walk far because you get wear so your husband uses a stroller because it's cheaper than a wheel chair but that doesn't tell me how that can keep your from waiting in lines if you have a stroller you can sit in. I can imagine you probably can't stand long either but you have a stroller to sit in. I would assume you are abusing your label to not wait in lines but that's why I had to ask first. People should ask before they assume, no answer, then they can assume because people don't answer questions for a reason so it basically gives their answer away.

[babykeiff]

...

on the topic of 'potty training' as a child's brain develops they are able to become aware of the urge or feeling that preceeds the need to urinate or have a bowel movement. Even if you dont tell them the toilet is a choice,they will still become aware of this urge on their own. By keeping them in diapers you are only denying them a choice!!!

...

I'm sorry to have to inform you, but this is entirely incorrect. It is western society's choice to diaper a child, and then ignore the child when it tries to communicate its need to void. Is that in the child's best interest? A newborn child is aware of its needs, but it is unable to act on its needs. The child is taught, by society, to soil itself and stew in its own waste while getting all sorts of irritations. Only when the child learns the correlation that sometimes when it cries, the mess will be cleaned. - this is with semi-attentive parents. When the child reaches the age where its peers are no longer diapered, it will choose to be trained OR a parent will force the child to train earlier - yes it is assault, to force anyone to reverse what they have been taught from birth without explanation, and to punish a person for failing. I have mentioned before 'infant potty training' That is where the parent acts on the signals given by a pre-speech child.

In my opinion, certain actions need to be taken = diapering a child - but the change to a toilet trained child need not be traumatic - and to make it comfortable for the child, train the child on the childs terms, and not bend to societies pressure.

...

whether its right or not, people will avoid you if you smell like feces or urine

...

in the society we live in, and in fact in most cultures, soiling yourself is not acceptable behavior

the social stigma of being 15 and still in diapers, with no medical condition deeming the use of those diapers necessary, is pretty rough.

....

This is what we are saying - society, right or wrongly, dictates how we are supposed to behave.

I don't have to beat them over the head with potty training books, which by the way keep the ...

condition ravages their lives. But, if they only got help earlier...

Pollyanna,

I completely agree with you. Society, and its ignorance, has a lot to answer for. It is similar to the animal world, they have their instincts, cannot be taught, so we pity them and carry on regardless. In time, with people like you in the world, the gene pool will be replaced with people that can be taught.

Spokane Girl,

yes, a person can recover from an overactive bladder - and the simple answer is that the medical staff found medication that Pollyanna's daughter can take without side effects.

You also stated that your parents chose to cover up in front of you/your siblings - that is your parents. There are whole communities of people in Germany, and Denmark who believe that clothes are restrictive, and conduct their daily life nude.

I apologize in advance if I offend anyone, My intention is to point out society flaws, not bash the USA.

In the US, the land of the free, there is a lot of things you are not legally free to do. That again, is society restricting the freedom of others. The schema of the US does force kids to grow up prematurely, and that, in my opinion, shows in the immature actions of some of its adults = USA has the worldwide highest divorce percentage, the highest legal actions against another society member, and the highest proportion of people seeking help from psychotherapists. In a supposedly free country, society doesn't seem to be able to get along with each other (divorce, legal action) and it also seems that people can't have close friendship. If I have a problem, I discuss it with my friends/family as do most Europeans. In my 41 years of life, I have never spend a Christmas or birthday alone - at least one member of my friends / family was with me - and neither have most Europeans.

[Nat]

I'm sorry to have to inform you, but this is entirely incorrect. It is western society's choice to diaper a child, and then ignore the child when it tries to communicate its need to void. Is that in the child's best interest? A newborn child is aware of its needs, but it is unable to act on its needs. The child is taught, by society, to soil itself and stew in its own waste while getting all sorts of irritations. Only when the child learns the correlation that sometimes when it cries, the mess will be cleaned. - this is with semi-attentive parents. When the child reaches the age where its peers are no longer diapered, it will choose to be trained OR a parent will force the child to train earlier - yes it is assault, to force anyone to reverse what they have been taught from birth without explanation, and to punish a person for failing. I have mentioned before 'infant potty training' That is where the parent acts on the signals given by a pre-speech child.

In my opinion, certain actions need to be taken = diapering a child - but the change to a toilet trained child need not be traumatic - and to make it comfortable for the child, train the child on the childs terms, and not bend to societies pressure.

I was very surprised what I read when I learned babies are not incontinent and they are aware of their bodily functions. They just don't have the cognitive ability to tell us they need to go or know where they are supposed to go to dump it. So they wriggle and squirm to hold it because they don't want to get it on them and us humans ignore those signs. So yeah we do train them to go in their diapers and they learn that is where they are supposed to go so then they have to re learn it when they are getting toilet trained. I read infant potty training is very common is Asia and Africa. That's why people can carry their infants without them peeing or pooping on them because they know when they need to go. Back in the olden days before diapers, that's what people did back then too in our country. Then diapers were invented but they were intended for in case of accidents. But lot of people in the USA and some other countries think babies are not aware of their bodily functions so we keep them in diapers and have them use them and stay in their waste. I used to think people were crazy for doing infant potty training and they were lazy parents because they didn't want to deal with diapers but I've found out that isn't true at all. You save on lot of diapers that way and it doesn't harm the infant they are being put over the potty to go. They can't miss what they have never had. It they were using the potty since birth, they are not going to know any difference what they never had. You can't miss what you've never had.

So when I do see people saying they were potty trained since birth or since they were 12 months or 6 months, I am not going to think they are full of it. I will just consider maybe their parents did infant potty training. About someone saying they were potty trained since birth, I will consider maybe their parents did infant potty training since the day they were born.

Thanks for answering my question about going from over active bladder to normal bladder, if Polly did say her daughter will be taking pills for it, I guess I missed that part in one of her posts or I just didn't comprehend it or realized that was the answer to my question.

[DL88]

In the US, the land of the free, there is a lot of things you are not legally free to do. That again, is society restricting the freedom of others. The schema of the US does force kids to grow up prematurely, and that, in my opinion, shows in the immature actions of some of its adults = USA has the worldwide highest divorce percentage, the highest legal actions against another society member, and the highest proportion of people seeking help from psychotherapists. In a supposedly free country, society doesn't seem to be able to get along with each other (divorce, legal action) and it also seems that people can't have close friendship. If I have a problem, I discuss it with my friends/family as do most Europeans. In my 41 years of life, I have never spend a Christmas or birthday alone - at least one member of my friends / family was with me - and neither have most Europeans.

I can perfectly understand your use of the warning before this paragraph lol. Keiff, this paragraph is absolutely, 100% correct. Realistically if anybody can find issue with this paragraph it is because they do not wish to or are unable to accept the truth, because that is what this is, the truth.

Great post!

[sarah_ab]

i'm wondering is there a society that actually encourages and condones people to stay in diapers? there may be these societies and they are just not well known.

[guitar_a_goo_goo_ga]

i'm wondering is there a society that actually encourages and condones people to stay in diapers? there may be these societies and they are just not well known.

not well known because those people stink and no outsider wants to be around them. also the lack of toilets makes it difficult for a film crew to document their way of life.

[babykeiff]

...

Thanks for answering my question about going from over active bladder to normal bladder, if Polly did say her daughter will be taking pills for it, I guess I missed that part in one of her posts or I just didn't comprehend it or realized that was the answer to my question.

Pollyanna did not say that her daughter was taking medication, and I do not know if her daughter is actually taking medication - I would suspect not, since 'an overactive bladder' is misinformation. However, her teachers, school board, etc., are unaware of that information. What I am doing here is giving a possible solution to what Pollyanna has stated to teachers etc.

Scientifically, there is a cure for all disease - whether it is known or not, there is always a possibility that it will be discovered.

Sarah_AB, there is certain African tribes that keeps their leader, and his/her decedents in diapers from birth to death. Also, in Chinese history, this was also practiced. From one perspective, females wear protection from birth to death, except for the brief time before puberty and after toilet training. Some professions require diaper usage - deep sea diver, astronaut, etc.. I really don't know why society finds diaper wearing and usage so taboo - or is it an enforced image used to toilet train a child = 'Diapers are smelly and dirty', compared to the uncomfort of being in wet underwear as apposed to the feeling of been in soft diapers.

[DiaperBigBoy]

As soon as I was old enough to go to school on my own and walk home, I literally had to get a job because my mom couldn't support me. I know I grew up too fast, because my grandparents raised me and I kind of had to take care of them, and my mom.

In America we do it all the time, but in other countries the adults raise the kids unless they don't have parents. lol

[Yvhuce]

that could be changed if people would just change their mindset and their attitude. This attitude is why those who do have medical problems are constantly the butt of jokes and are ridiculed for something they cannot help. Toddlers and children are our biggest victims because if there is seriously a medical problem present, the tot does not possess the reasoning and the communication skills, let alone does not have enough of a vocabulary to express what the problem is and that they are not doing it on purpose. So, it is automatically assumed that because they are a toddler, they are having accidents on purpose and are scolded and even beaten depending upon the parent. I can't tell you how many incontinent people I've heard tell the story of being punished all their childhoods for something they had no control over. So sad...

Very true. Unfortunately, I think the idea of such an enlightened nation as a pipe dream. More realistically, you'll wind up with pockets of such people scattered around here and there. Probly on the coasts, since that seems to be where the "wierdos" (from Society's standpoint) tend to congregate (simple fact [east and west coast values tend to be quite different than central US values {we still prefer spanking over time out, round here}]).

[PampersPete]

Not really Yvhuce. I now live in a part of the country that is undeniably conservative. California basically told a very large percentage of it's population that they weren't suitable for marriage yet Iowa feels that that very same population is worthy. Either Iowa is the exception to the rule or we as a nation really need to look at our percieved"values" & "morals.

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

I can perfectly understand your use of the warning before this paragraph lol. Keiff, this paragraph is absolutely, 100% correct. Realistically if anybody can find issue with this paragraph it is because they do not wish to or are unable to accept the truth, because that is what this is, the truth.

Great post!

My family also embraces those same values. I agree with Babykeiff. We are always together. We go the extra mile for one another. Selfishness is not among us because we put ourselves last and others first. If there is a problem, we confide in one another. We are so close knit. We are not broken up. We do not really behave like US society, considering that my family is originally from the Netherlands (I was born in Amsterdam.) So, we could give a crap less about nudity because when I go home to visit some of my family that did not migrate to the US, I go to the public bath houses nude. And to those of you who do not know about my homeland too much, a lot of places do not have boy and girl locker rooms. We ddress in front of each other. Some places REQUIRE you are nude, or you may not enter. While there are signs that indicate where clothes have to be worn, such as the areas where more conservative people live, there are many more places where you can go out on the streets bare butt naked. The Dutch seem to be more comfortable with themselves more than, let's say, Americans in general. That is, at least, my observation. We do not sexualize things as much as America does, and surprise! Weirdoes are not going around grabbing people's butts on the street just because people of the Netherlands embrace nudity.

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

I asked about what are you going to do now about your daughter because you have lied all these years about her having an over active bladder. Can a child go from an overactive bladder to a normal bladder? That's why I don't finding lying a good idea because it can come back to you and what if the child does decide to quit wearing diapers later on? Then what are you going to say to people about your kid's bladder being normal all of a sudden? I think people would find out your secret. Well it's your problem now.

I answered this question in previous posts. Children sometimes grow faster than their bladders, and I'd say that this is the case with my daughter. Read my earlier post in this thread. It is a believable explanation, and one I chose to use should my children not be interested in continuing to wear.

My mom stopped being naked in front of us a long time ago and my dad too. He has walked around in his underwear only or boxers but never with his penis showing. My mom, she never walked naked or let my brothers see her naked when they got older. She has been naked in front of me when she get dressed but I'm a girl so that was different. She won't let my brothers see her naked but it was different when they were babies and toddlers. My mom won't even walk around the house in her bra and panties. I guess I come from another planet because my family was different than yours.

I don't understand why it's okay for babies and toddlers to see their parent naked who has the opposite gender than them but not okay to see them naked when they get to elementary school. But it's okay to see anyone naked when you get to a nude beach and yes kids can go to them too.

I also asked how does MS keep you from waiting in lines. I know you have said it makes you not be able to walk far because you get wear so your husband uses a stroller because it's cheaper than a wheel chair but that doesn't tell me how that can keep your from waiting in lines if you have a stroller you can sit in. I can imagine you probably can't stand long either but you have a stroller to sit in. I would assume you are abusing your label to not wait in lines but that's why I had to ask first. People should ask before they assume, no answer, then they can assume because people don't answer questions for a reason so it basically gives their answer away.

Before assuming that I do not want to answer your questions, or even worse, assuming that I do not want to answer your questions because I’m a deviant that has something to hide, please understand that your question was not very clear. I interpreted it as meaning that how I would be waiting in lines if I had a comfortable stroller to sit in. I thought you meant that the wait should not really be considered a wait because I’m not standing. Perhaps, you should try not to always jump to conclusions and think the worse about people. It is not a healthy thing to do. It is a quick way to turn people off. I’m not trying to be mean. I genuinely want to help you because I see someone so beautiful under all of this. I see a very intelligent young woman who has great potential. Perhaps, from what you tell me about your upbringing; it might have had something to do with how you perceive people now and how you perceive the world? Parents have a lot of influence in molding how a child thinks and perceives things, especially if there is manipulation involved. I’m so sorry about what you endured as a child. Here is to hoping that you find healing in therapy or whatever you need to do to heal.

To answer your question correctly, when a person has a physical disability, they are allowed to skip the lines and go onto the rides through the exits. Does that settle things now? If you have any more questions, don’t hesitate to ask. I’ll always answer them to the best of my ability. If there is any part of your question that went unanswered, feel free to point it out or possibly state more clearly what you mean. I can only do my best.

For the next time, I’d truly appreciate if you were not sarcastic or that you’d not take jabs at me, such as saying things like “I don’t know what planet your family is from.

[Nat]

Being from another planet means different, it's a figure of speech. I say that to lot of people when they do different things, etc. I have been amazed how rude people are in some parts of the world or in the USA because they are shoving and pushing each other to get on the train and here where I live, people don't do that. They are polite. What planet do they come from? I mean why do they do it, what kind of culture is that? Is that a place where lot of rude people live? In some parts of the USA people speed, they all go faster than the speed limit so to them I come from another planet because I am going the speed limit. I bet they are thinking the same of me because I am not doing what they are doing but to me they are being stupid for breaking the speed limit. If they are allowed to go faster than the speed limit, why not raise the speed limit to how fast they are going?

About not having to wait in line about being psychically disabled, I don't agree with that rule because it's unfair. I don't like lot of laws our country has and lot of rules like "no headphones at work" or "no chewing gum" because those rules don't make sense. Work places make those rules and schools but not the country. If I ever go to Walt Disney World, I will not use the disability pass because I believe it's very dishonest and I should wait in long lines like everyone else because I am capable of standing and I bring things to keep myself busy as I'm waiting. Those passes are even for people with hidden disabilities. If my family insisted of me getting one, I would think they are using my disability so they wouldn't have to wait in those long lines so they decided to use me and I would wonder is this why they want me to come.

Heck I even qualify for a cheap bus pass here that are for people with disabilities and senior citizens and for those on medicare but because I can afford an adult bus pass because I don't have much bills to pay, I don't need it. It doesn't make sense to buy one if I can afford an adult pass. My bf qualifies for one too but also doesn't use it. I wouldn't care if he decided to because it be yay he has more spending money. I do not understand these special privileges and because they are illogical I think it's wrong and I think only poor people should use them who can't afford an adult bus pass because they are unable to work or they don't make very much money so they don't have much money left over after paying their bills. My future brother in law cannot afford a bus pass so he had to pay bus fare every time he goes to work and back. But the transportation company here decided to start two week bus passes so that is good and it's for anyone who can't afford a monthly pass because of their bills and how they get paid and by the time they are done paying their bills, they don't have enough for a bus pass for the next month. I dunno if he uses those now. Yet those two week bus passes cost more than the cheap bus pass for people with disabilities and senior citizens and for people on health care.

My dad used to say when I was a kid "Life isn't fair" and I think there is the phrase "Life doesn't make any sense." I agree to both.

[babyvr6]

^ I more than qualify for disability, but I refuse to apply for it. My doctor continues to to tell me that if I want to be able to take my kids for walks (when I have some) or do anything without needing crutches or a wheelchair, that I should either get on disability or get a job that wont cause anymore damage. I just can't bring myself to do the disability route. While there are people I know personally who beg for some sort of accident so they can claim it. I would rather finish school and get a job where I don't have to be on my feet. Eh... I guess that's just how I was raised.

/thread jack

[Nat]

There are even people who have disabled parking permits but refuse to use them. My ex had one but he didn't use it because he knows people need the parking space more than he does and he only uses it when he is in so much pain. He had a bad back because of a car wreck he was in and he had holes in his knees, not literal holes. He was considered disabled too but he still waited in lines and still worked and dealt with the pain 24/7. Some people are like that, he was just very honest but very ignorant. He was very negative about gays and adult babies and he acted like I was retarded because of my child interests and my childish behavior when I am very happy or get excited.

If I qualified for a disabled parking permit, I would only use it when I need to like if I am in so much pain or very fatigue but rest of the time, I would use a normal parking spot. I would also choose to wait in the lines too because I believe in fairness. I guess it was also how I was raised. My mother treated my brothers and I the same, however she treated me, she treated my brothers the same way because she wanted me to feel normal and not think I was broken or there is something wrong with me. She had me do gymnastics to help my balance than doing physical therapy, she had me do pottery to help my motor skills. She found activities that would help me improve. When I did t-ball, she had me be on a team with normal kids and the coach thought I should be in the special league but ironically she had me go to a special school for toddlers with developmental delays. Then when I was eight, I was finally stuck in a new school in a class with normal kids.

Sadly society seems to think, having a disability is an excuse and a get out of free jail card but it isn't when it comes to law or else MR people wouldn't be getting locked up or people with mental illnesses when they commit crimes. Some criminals even think if they fake mental retardation or a mental illness, they will get away with their crime but no it doesn't work that way. If they do a good job fooling the jury and the doctors, they end up in a mental hospital or institution or just in the mental ward in the prison.

I knew someone on SSI in Montana and I asked him why didn't he work and he said he didn't need to. Didn't need to because he was on Social security? OMG he is abusing it then. Being on it does not mean you don't have to work. I can remember I was still trying to find a job even though I was on it and my mom told me how proud she is of me because some people on it abuse it by not working even though they are capable of having a job. That shocked me. OMG there are people out there who genuinely can't work so they need it more than some others do. It's not fair to them when people abuse it. It's not even fair to people with disabilities when people who have the same condition as them abuse their label by using it as an excuse or using it as a defense when they commit a crime and they full well knew what they did was wrong but did it anyway.

No I am not going to judge someone for being on it and not working because I don't know their life style or what problems they have or how their disability effects them on their job and if it keeps them from keeping it or not.

I know an autistic guy online I talk to and he is capable of working because he has had a job before but he cannot afford to move and no place in his area will even call him for an interview. He does want to work, he keeps applying for work but no place will call him for an interview. Is he abusing Social Security? No he is not. He can't afford a car either so he doesn't drive. He functions at the Asperger level it seems like because he doesn't have typical problems lot of autistic people have. I could be wrong though because not everyone talks about every single problem they have or had. I was amazed how people were still judging him after he explain all that to them when they assume he is sitting on his ass doing nothing with his life and they still think that after he tell him all that stuff.

End of my rant.

[sarah_ab]

many people who are in wheelchairs have conditions that cause chronic pain.. therefore even sitting for long periods of time is painful. for those people to have to sit in their wheelchair for 45 minutes, then to get on the ride and be in so much pain they cannot enjoy it because they feel like throwing up. THAT is not fair.

ALso, at many amusement parks the rides and the facilities to hold the rides were build before the ADA law came into effect, giving them until 2010 to update and make everything accessible, therefore, for people in wheelchairs sometimes the only accesible entrance is through the exit, or by allowing them to by pass the line area which may have stairs, narrow hallways or steep ramps which would prove to be impossible to go through in a chair or with sticks, crutches etc...

People with brain injuries may be prone to bouts of intense vertigo, meaning if they stand for to long they could get dizzy, pass out, etc... so allowing them to bypass the line prevents injury to them and lawsuits against the company.

so please remember, someone in a wheel chair may be sitting down, but that doesn't mean they are pain free, and relaxing comfortably in that chair.

I myself have a neurological condition, and at times i have very noticable symptoms which would prove very disruptive to the people who have to stand near me in lines, depending on the ride, i may chose to use the handicapped line so i dont have to inconvienence other people, embarass myself, and deal with unwanted confrontation.

[Nat]

I did not realize people in wheelchairs were in pain. I thought it was due to being paralyzed or being weak because of aging. Does that mean they are still in pain even if they are in their wheelchairs all day when they are out in public?

I still wouldn't use disability lines though for myself because I am not effected that way to keep me from standing in long lines. Sure my legs get sore from standing for a long time in one spot but that happens to everyone. That's why some people bring lawn chairs or beach chairs if they know they are going to stand in line for three hours or all day. I wouldn't be surprised if people bring them to Disneyland or to Walt Disney World or to any theme park that has long lines that last a couple hours or more.

This is why I always need explanations from people. Telling me they don't need to wait in lines because when you have a psychical condition, you don't have to wait in line, that told me, it was a special privilege than a special need so that's why I thought it was unfair.

Sure there are people out there who will deal with pain. My bf has bad feet but he still chooses to work and be in pain because he doesn't let his feet stop him and my ex still worked despite his back because he needed a roof over his head and he didn't get Social Security, he had tried applying for it but got denied every time. Those who don't work because of their back or feet, I assume their pain is probably worse than my ex and my bf's. There does come time when my bf's feet are hurting so bad, he cannot walk so he has to crawl and that happens when he has been working too hard on his feet.

[Pollyanna Fleshman]

I did not realize people in wheelchairs were in pain. I thought it was due to being paralyzed or being weak because of aging. Does that mean they are still in pain even if they are in their wheelchairs all day when they are out in public?

It could. It all depends upon what is wrong with them. I'd say that from personal experience, yes, because think about how you feel sitting all the time on a long trip. You want to get up and stretch, but if you are in a wheelchair, that is not an option. MS hurts me really bad. If I were to sit in that stroller for two hours or for a long time, forget riding the rides.

I still wouldn't use disability lines though for myself because I am not effected that way to keep me from standing in long lines. Sure my legs get sore from standing for a long time in one spot but that happens to everyone. That's why some people bring lawn chairs or beach chairs if they know they are going to stand in line for three hours or all day. I wouldn't be surprised if people bring them to Disneyland or to Walt Disney World or to any theme park that has long lines that last a couple hours or more.

This is why I always need explanations from people. Telling me they don't need to wait in lines because when you have a psychical condition, you don't have to wait in line, that told me, it was a special privilege than a special need so that's why I thought it was unfair.

How you handle things is for you to decide. I do not personally think it is unfair to use special priveleges that are designed for the physically disabled if you are doing it because you legitimately have a physical condition. Now, if someone is exploiting the disabled person to use their benefits, or if someone is faking being disabled to gain specialization, that is not fair. that is downright disgusting and pitiful. But, if the special needs person is using it, then there is nothing wrong with that. My reasoning is that I lack so very much what a normal person does. I have a hard time walking. I fatigue easily. I have motor dexterity issues, and I now for the record am unable to speak. So, I feel there is nothing wrong with having a little break here and there.

I'm not saying to stay on SSI because you do not feel like working. And, sorry to say that there are disabled people who try their heart out to get jobs but cannot because most employers will not fool with them. So then whose fault is it? It is not the disabled person's fault because they have tried. This is why there are special priveleges because the disabled people really have it hard. Normal people have the luxury of walking into a job site and getting an interview. A disabled person is lucky if the manager will even speak to them or look them in the face. For instance, eighty percent of the blind are unemployed because why? Well, they can't get work because they are blind. Employers will not take the time to look at what they can do. They focus on their blindness, and it stops there. Check out http://www.nfb.org and you will see what I mean. Some are very enterprizing, such as my friend who refused to be a stitistic. However, not everyone can be a leader and entrepeneur. If it makes you feel better, I do not receive any benefits at all. I'm supported solely by my husband. Nobody would hire me if I tried, and I'd not be able to hold a job anyhow. Who wants to deal with someone who can't even speak or change her own diapers? That would really go over well on the job. I possibly could telecommute, like working online and not telling the people i have MS so they will not discriminate against me and look at my abilities rather than my disease, but since I can't speak, well, there goes that idea. MS is my life. There is no way around that. Does it rule me? Hell no. I try to remain positive, as it will not take away my joy. But, I realize my limitations, and one of them is that I could not hold a steady job. I just learn to live with my limitations and make the most of my life. It does not pay to be negative about everything. Sure, I'm saddened about the recent occurances of my disease, but will it get me down? No. I'll grieve and vent for a bit, and then I'll do as I've always done. I'll get over it.

Sure there are people out there who will deal with pain. My bf has bad feet but he still chooses to work and be in pain because he doesn't let his feet stop him and my ex still worked despite his back because he needed a roof over his head and he didn't get Social Security, he had tried applying for it but got denied every time. Those who don't work because of their back or feet, I assume their pain is probably worse than my ex and my bf's. There does come time when my bf's feet are hurting so bad, he cannot walk so he has to crawl and that happens when he has been working too hard on his feet.

Please keep in mind that everyone can tollerate different things. Just because your family members can tollerate a severe amount of pain does not mean everyone else can. Everyone has a different pain threshold and should not be compared to others. If your EX had gotten a social security lawyer, he would have won and have received all the back pay. Social Security is a hard system to navigate, and unfortunately, those who really need it are denied, such as in your EX's case. I do not want benefits because I have a husband who loves and cares for me, and I'd like to preserve those benefits for someone who does not have the support that I have. Not to mention, I'm not sure what an immigrant can get anyhow. I never bothered to research it, since I never plan to receive benefits.