Enthusi

Hi all. About a year ago, maybe even longer, I announced on this forum that I was working on writing up the technique I developed to untrain myself based on psychological principles, which I named Targeted Untraining. I had some great volunteers to help me review and edit and even so I never really finished writing it. Part of it was life, but a bigger part was that it wasn’t coming together. I am disappointed with myself for not having it done by now. But every time I started thinking about it I got writer’s block. Then the other day it clicked that the whole conceptualization was wrong. The technique is based on principles of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, namely the cognitive triad, so let’s start there! Unfortunately this entails a total re-write but I think it will go much better with this reframe. The gist of the cognitive triad is that there are three areas to consider: Cognition (Thoughts) <-> Feelings <-> Behaviors (actions). All 3 areas influence each other, and in order to feel better you have to address all 3 areas simultaneously. Though in our case, feeling better means being diaper dependent. 😎 Important disclaimer: Cognitive, Behavioral Therapy is much more complicated than this, and mental health professionals dedicate their life’s work to mastering CBT. This is NOT therapy in any way shape or form. I am merely using concepts borrowed from that branch of clinical psychology. My new outline will be as follows: Introduction: Disclaimers. Welcome message. Introduce the cognitive triad as a basis for Targeted Untraining. Emphasize the level of commitment needed to pull this off including the physical, emotional, social, financial costs of being diaper dependent. How to proceed if you desire incontinence but aren’t ready to fully commit. Applying concepts to bowel incontinence if that’s your thing. Acknowledgments.* Section 1 (Cognitive): Understanding how bladder control works so we can undo, with our goal to reset your urinary system back the factory default, aka the micturition reflex. Also about mental techniques like guided imagery and hypnosis to remove any barriers that prevent you from identifying as someone who lives with incontinence, and more. Section 2 (Feelings): Developing a challenge mindset where you see the problems of being incontinent like costs, travel, diaper rash, not as deterrents, but challenges to over come. Let the confidence you gain propel you forward. Rewarding yourself for milestones, inspiration when you feel frustrated for not progressing (regressing?) as fast as you’d like. Section 3 (Behaviors): Techniques to nudge your body into a spiral where you start relying on your diapers to keep you dry, which worsens your incontinence further. This includes things like timed relaxation exercise, getting comfortable talking to healthcare providers, perhaps even family about your lifestyle, never holding it in even when you’re not diapered. Section 4 (Putting it all together): How to design systems using the above techniques to ensure your success. Special topics like sleep wetting, wetting while sitting, traveling, ways to save money. Etc. * Originally I had hoped to name some people by screen name but at this point so many people have helped It’s impossible to keep track of who helped with what. So instead I plan to thank the community and shout out to Daily Diapers. I am looking for 1-3 people who have some experience or exposure with the psychology of cognitive behavioral therapy to help divvy up sections to brainstorm and maybe even write a rough draft. I would strongly prefer people who are open to using Telegram to communicate. That way we can have real time private group discussions via text. Message me here if interested and if you have a telegram name or need to make a new account. Once that’s done it will need to be edited and ideally made into a pdf with internal hyperlinks to jump to spots. In a perfect world we can make it in wiki format but one step at a time. And step one is to get everything on paper. Many many many thanks in advance. Enthusi! 🚀

So yes I am totally urinary incontinent after years of hardcore untraining. I’m talking private hypnotists repeat times around the clock to remind me to relax my bladder, guided meditation where I imagine there was teeny tiny stent placed in my external sphincter. Identifying as a person who is incontinent, gradually getting comfortable with medical providers knowing. I have a urologist who knows. Scary at first but like any exposure therapy you get used to it. Speaking of therapy I have my own therapist who is sex positive and knows all about my incontinence abdl side and she amazing and empowering. I actually created a technique called Targeted Untraining based on the principles of cognitive behavioral therapy. I haven’t moved on it because of life and also I want to rework it under a new conceptualization. Heres my current level of bladder control: 1. My external sphincter is basically a sliding door at a 24-hour Walmart. I’ve tested my functional bladder capacity and estimate it around 150 cc, which coincidentally is when adults first feel the urge to go. In other words I spontaneously void when my bladder senses fullness. Like a baby. See micturition reflex. 2. If I pay close attention I can hold it for 20 30 seconds. But it’s emotionally and physically exhausting. On the other hand if I’m distracted I may not notice I’m wetting. 3. It’s hard to explain, but I’m losing touch with the whole concept of continence. It feels like this strange super power that people have. And by people, I mean pretty much every adult, including myself up until 6 years ago. Whenever a movie or show I’m watching shows people stripped down to underwear, I a mesmerized by how confidently dry they are. 4. I can tell my bowel control is slipping. I don’t aspire to be bowel incontinent, but I am not doing any thing to stop it, so to speak. 5. Nights are a blur. I have no idea how many times I wet at night, and I only that because the phase of sleep is random. Sometimes I have pee dreams, sometimes no memory, sometimes waking up as I’m peeing. I could go to bed with a full bladder or empty. 6. My most recent development is dribbling. Sometimes it’s enough to change the line on my diaper. I think it’s because nowadays my bladder and pelvic muscles are so weak or dysfunctional or both. I don’t know, but they ain’t working right. It’s hard for my to push the pee out. So the stream is sluggish and pee kinda just hangs out in the urethra until gravity or the next wetting flushes it out. 7. My immediate family knows and so do all my medical providers. That stuff used to freak me out but I’m past that now. See “Targeted untraining-exposure therapy above.” 8. I see myself as a dual ambassador between the ABDL and the medical incontinence community. I get why most people suffering from incontinence cringe and are quick to shoo me away. There are a very tiny few number of pervy peeps in the ABDL community that have no business posting in non vanilla incontinence groups so they can get off.. I couldn’t agree more, it’s totally wrong, and a terrible reflection of ABDL community as a whole. How I feel about it all. Equal parts joy and exhaustion. Sometimes I despise it, like this past summer when I had a horrible diaper rash on my thigh that required antibiotics and still wouldn’t heal so I ended up using a Foley catheter for a few days to air out. Being diaper dependent is not just exhausting, it’s f*cking exhausting. Always worrying if your diaper is showing, especially if you’re like me and don’t like constricting clothing like onesies. Plus, onesie or not, the most worrisome giveaway is smelling like pee, and it’s easy to get noseblind. The cost of diapers is an obvious stressor. Traveling is a pain in the ass. Having to keep spare diapers nearby such as diaper bag when away. Disposal is a pain. And to think, all i did was swapped out our innate ability to control our bodies, which is free, convenient and features a highly redundant failsafe system involving all aspects of from individual fear, to society expectations perpetuates it, for one that is expensive and inefficient and a social taboo and a sign of shame. I get it. I miss wearing underwear a lot. Not over a diaper either. But even so I would never ever ever go back or retrain. I doubt I could if I wanted to anyway. And I’m not ready for that. Best analogy I can give is wetting yourself during diaper changes. It happens to me from time to time, especially during *ahem prolonged diaper changes. They represent the very best and very worst of being totally incontinent, and are a mind-screw. It’s such a helpless feeling to be standing there in a puddle when you just took off your diaper and there’s often a toilet a few paces away. And the cleanup and need to do laundry asap if I used a towel or whatever. There’s also times I’ve taken my diaper after thought I was done peeing only to find out I was mistaken. As I type this I have no idea when I’m going to wet next. Could be 5 minutes from now, 50 minutes, 150 min, who knows? And I wouldn’t have it any other way. TL;DR- It just feels right.

Summers can be brutal for those of us who are diaper dependent, and perhaps near Hellish if you live somewhere warm. This past summer I had a really bad diaper rash that took months and oral and topical antibiotic treatment. After years of untraining I am totally incontinent which is unfortunate, because I discovered that airing out helped greatly. No matter how hard I tried to change frequently, thinner more breathable diapers, and Pull-ups didn’t hold up. Plus at nights I’m a very heavy wetter, and rely on a plastic backed Megamax with booster Good for incontinence, bad for airing out So, out of act of near desperation I used a foley for a few days so I could air out better. Obvious disclaimer Foley catheters have risks and should be discussed with your medical professional. Luckily I had supplies like bags and tubing leftover from my previous failed foray into condom catheters. Even so, it was a painful, achy sore, miserable experience. It helped jumpstart my body’s counter attack, but it was not a fond summer memory. My new analogy for the commitment needed to fully untrain is, “Would having to wear a Foley catheter with a urine bag for days at a time, in the summer, in order to heal a stubborn diaper rash, deter you from wanting to be diaper dependent? I don’t think you can fault anyone for wanting more time to think about it. 😂 Edit: To answer my own question, no regrets whatsoever. While there are certainly times where being totally diaper dependent makes life downright miserable. And for me, the novelty has long since worn off. But the rash is now fully healed, it’s cooling down, and I got through it. Besides, I’ll be better prepared for the next time it happens.

Hey there, it’s okay, I promise! You don’t have to be embarrassed or ashamed. It happens to us all, some more than others! I know the feeling too well… you’re busy, distracted. Maybe you were playing an intense video game, or hard at work on something and you look down to discover to your horror that your diaper is dry. Panic sets in. Thoughts race through your head. “How did that happen?” It was a complete accident! You weren’t being lazy. You certainly didn’t mean to keep your diaper dry! Or maybe it happens a lot and you’re angry at your self. “Why does my body keep doing this?” You may think you’re the only one who struggle to keep your diaper wet. But rest assured you’re not alone. And don’t worry about being put back in underwear. That’s a choice you have to make. Oh… do you want to hear something weird? Some people like to wear underwear and even find it attractive, and want other people to see them in underwear? I told you it was weird! I What’s there to enjoy about stewing in their own dryness and breeze as they go about their business? But hey, to each their own. Don’t be too hard on yourself. It wasn’t your fault. So what, you had a little oopsie! I’m sure by now anyone who saw your dry clothes or diaper already forgot about it. Plus, your diaper will be soaked soon enough, if not already. Like I said, you can’t always control these things. It takes some people longer to fully pottyuntrain than others. It doesn’t mean you’re lazy, or mature. One day you will grow out of it. You’ll see. Now, get back out there and do your thing! Edit: Holy smokes this was longer than I thought! I had intended to be (hopefully) clever sh*t post. Now I’m debating if I should’ve submitted it as a short story! 😂

I’m guessing I’m not much younger than you. You know what else has eroded over the decades? Stigma and shame about being an ABDL. There’s still plenty enough to go around, but younger generations openly embrace diversity, and it’s great. So you never wear diapers in public?

@Little BabyDoll Christine I follow your logic, but I have a very different take on things based on my own journey. It’s true I originally had a choice in the matter but not any more. I can’t stress the amount of dedication it took for me to reverse my physiology but these days I have the bladder control of a 2 year old. Maybe if I tried really hard I could retrain myself but I would be miserable. So practically speaking I am “stuck” in diapers. Though I would argue it’s NOT an addiction. I am happily stuck in diapers. I feel more complete. I’m fully aware of all the potential problems, including someone unwittingly discovering that I wear diapers. Though I still prefer being diaper dependent to having bladder control. I agree that you shouldn’t be in a position to rationalize your actions because you’re ashamed or embarassed. And to @spark’s point, nobody outside of medical settings has ever asked me why I wear diapers, and even then most professionals don’t care. But it’s not outside the realm of possibility that someone discovers you wear diapers and is curious why.

I suppose that’s one way to look at it. But for those of us who wear 24/7 due to choice, need, or both, it’s only a matter of time before someone inadvertently finds out you wear diapers. Classic is example, one time I left my work bag (which I keep a spare diaper in) somewhere. I got a call from a random coworker in a different department saying they had my bag. The only way they would’ve known it’s mine is if they opened it and found my name on something. They never asked me about it and I didn’t say anything other than “thanks”. My point is that it’s difficult for you to be 100 percent secret when you wear diapers full time.

I’m not following. What do you mean?

I recently saw a discussion on Reddit from someone who is considering wearing full time but nervous about an aquaintance or coworker discovering they wear diapers. There were all the usual tips, most people don’t notice and/or don’t care. Though i also recommended they have a very short, well rehearsed response in case they ask why, even if you don’t owe anyone an explanation. So my question is how would you reply if someone inadvertently discovers you wear diapers and has questions. Obviously it depends on the individual and your relationship with them. And maybe there are different replies for different scenarios. But in general how do you satisfy their curiosity without drawing further scrutiny?

Knock yourself out. But my experience was similar to @oznl’s, except that I gave up after 24 hours. My sleep sucked and I ended up tossing and turning all night. There have been a few times where I passed out at home after drinking, while airing out and waking up in a puddle. But that’s not a fair test either. But no harm in trying as long as you have a reliable bedwetting pad Also, even if you wake up with a full bladder do you have the ability to make it to the toilet on time?

Let’s see, I have diapers in my dresser, the night stand, cases stored in the attic, in my work bag, my diaper bag (of course), the car glove compartment and trunk, my gym bag, the bathroom, my littles slumber party bag, and, apparently in a random duffel bag in the back of my closet that I totally forgot about It wasn’t like I planned that way. I have a tendency to pack extra diapers because I’d be screwed if I ran out at an inopportune moment. And so, they just… accumulate. Then again, it’s the same way with babies, isn’t it?

@Kevin140 Thank you for the feedback! Also you can make additional tweaks through the advanced settings (Settings>Installation>Advanced). Happy wetting!

Welcome to the incontinence machine! Choose from the following options to design your personalized experience. Ready to begin? Here we go! 1. First, let’s decide the severity for urinary incontinence: - Mild (dribbles) - Moderate - Severe / Total incontinence 2. Next determine the primary type of urinary incontinence: - Nonstop Leaky faucet - Squirts, small bladder releases - Intermittent floods 3 Very good! How much awareness do you want to have? - No awareness of having to pee. Total amnesia. - Vague awareness. - Keenly aware you’re peeing. 4. What about nights? - No bedwetting - Heavy wetting, frequent pee dreams - Heavy wetting with infrequent pee dreams. 5. Do you want your incontinence to be reversible or permanent? - Reversible - Permanent 6. Do you wish to have bowel incontinence as well? - No bowel incontinence - Mild/ occasional bowel incontinence - Severe/ Total bowel incontinence 7. Finally, would you like to add toilet confusion, thus impossible to use a toilet? - No - Yes Thank you using this setup wizard, good day!

I am essentially doing a naturalistic study on myself. I have been totally urinary incontinent for a few years now. I am not going for bowel incontinence but I am not doing anything to prevent it. Indeed, I have noticed that my bowel control is not as good as it used to be. It’s still good enough that I don’t worry about having an embarrassing bowel accident in a public setting, but barely. Several times a month, I experience what I call, “gray accidents” which is where I feel a lot of pressure and I just sort of give up because it’s easier that way. I’m diapered 24/7 and very efficient at cleaning myself after messing, so it’s just easier that way. At this point I am just as quick at using the big boy potty as I am about changing a messy diaper.I I know I can hold it longer, but I stop trying. Occasionally I will have legitimate messing accidents. These are a total brain f*ck for me. On one hand, I am wearing a diaper and I am efficient at cleaning myself, so it doesn’t matter. On the other hand, I am acutely aware how nonchalant I am about accidentally pooping my pants. I view it as a mild inconvenience more than anything else. TL;DR - After 3-4 years of being diaper dependent for severe urinary incontinence, my bowel control has deteriorated, but it’s still adequate, for now at least.

Thanks for the shoutout. Here are some of my more memorable dreams: - I found myself in the Chemical Plant Zone stage of Sonic 2, and I suddenly felt my lower body being submerged in the rising chemical water. Except it felt curiously warm. - I was a robot and somehow my mechanical components malfunctioned, causing warm oil to gush from my midsection. - I was on my way to play racquetball at a gym and next thing I know I’m in the locker room taking a shower a nice warm shower. It was so relaxing and the warmth felt so real! - I was a 10 year old kid and hanging with my best friend at his house, except in the dream I was diapered (In real life I didn’t wear diapers at that age). In my dream I went to the guest bathroom and i decided to prove that I didn’t need to wear diapers. So I took off my diaper and peed in the toilet. I distinctly remember feeling triumphant about my new found continence. I also remember waking up and chuckling to myself about the irony of accidentally urinating on myself while dreaming that I am toilet trained. 😂 @prideful Great thread! I can’t wait to read the other responses!

Yes! But you need to make sure you are trying REALLY hard!

It’s a trap! Earlier in my journey I tested myself all the time and each and every time I felt like I could’ve held it longer, but I wanted to fail the test so I intentionally gave up. Therefore the results are inconclusive. Despite the mounting evidence of wet clothes, towels, and bottles of floor cleaner, I still wasn’t convinced these accidents were truly involuntary. It turns out that the “I could’ve made it if I tried harder.” sentiment is common for people with incontinence. Besides, regardless of my actual bladder strength and capacity, I am clearly not ready to handle the responsibly of staying dry, so I need to wear a diaper, and my floors for it.

@oznl At the risk of going even more off topic, I find it fascinating how sleep wetting manifests itself at the different levels of consciousness. In lighter stages of sleep I tend to wake up groggy mid-stream, vaguely confused and yet unconcerned about the warmth I’m sensing in my crotch area. In deeper sleep I obviously have no memory, just a wet diaper in the AM. During REM sleep, my dreams will incorporate some aspect of the sleep wetting into the dream. Sometimes they’re classic pee dreams, other times it will be represented by something else. For instance one time I dreamt I was a robot gushing oil out of my abdomen. (or my diaper). Sometimes I wake up dry only to promptly soak myself when I reach for my phone to check the time. Ahh good times!

This is something I’ve been curious about for a while, specifically if other people experienced the same thing, and if so, what that implies. One of the unexpected and best outcomes from untraining is how relaxed everything feels down there. My external sphincter muscle has long since defaulted to open and the bladder muscles are uncoordinated and reflexively contract when there is any sensation of bladder pressure. And yet prior to untraining, I chronically felt this big knot at the base of my pelvic area. It was like a ball of tension, which has since gone me away. I assumed that’s how it is for everyone, but what if that’s not true? And in fact, the tension may have been indicative of some undiagnosed dysfunctional voiding and a reason I feel so comfortable in diapers!

I haven’t had a terrific experience with cloth diapers. Even if they’re cheaper the hassle isn’t worth it. Plus they are so darn thick and do nothing to cover urine smell, which makes it hard to wear them while out and about. These days the only time I wear cloth diaper is over a disposable when I drank a lot before bedtime and I need extra-extra protection.

I’m with @Loveable_guy on this one. Small catheters tend to induce more spasms. A catheter that is too small will wiggle around a lot inside your urethra and the balloon in the bladder, leading to more irritation. Hence the discomfort you’re experiencing.

Welcome to incontinence! It’s exhausting, expensive, and it never lets up. In my experience people in your shoes respond in one of two ways: 1. They decide that 24/7 isn’t worth it to them and they cut back on wearing to a point that is more comfortable for them. This is by far the most common outcome. 2. They are fueled by the validation of having to wear diapers out of need, even when it’s not convenient or enjoyable. I myself am firmly in the second camp. There are LOTS of times when I don’t really feel like putting up with the hassles of being incontinent and diaper dependent. I find it most annoying when I’m on vacation or at the beach or pool. But even then, the validation of knowing that I HAVE to wear diapers or face an embarrassing leak keeps me going. As for using lighter protection, that would make me even more stressed out because I would be worried about leaking. Sometimes I will air out on an incontinence pad, or take a nice long bath. But usually I just push through it. That said, I think it’s more economical to have a variety of diapers of different levels of absorbency (and cost). As your bladder control worsens you’ll find it’s more convenient to plan your diaper changes around your schedule. There will be times when you only need a few hours of protection until your next change and in those situations thick premium diapers are overkill. Plus the variety of diapers keeps it fresh. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, incontinence would really suck if you didn’t like it.

I don’t know if meds either. I am hoping I’ll be a good candidate for surgery if it comes to that.

Personally speaking, as my bladder muscles have weakened, everything down there feels so “uncoordinated.” I have noticed a gradual increase in dribbling an sluggish pee stream. It’s not coincidental. I am vaguely concerned that if things get too weak and uncoordinated I’m at risk for chronic urinary retention. In that case I would opt for meds in order to protect the kidneys. But that’s all I got.

For me, the biggest “con” of being diaper dependent is the long term risks associated with the lifestyle: For most of us, as we age, our mobility worsens, our skin is more fragile, and we are more susceptible to potentially serious urinary tract infections. It’s a perfect storm. In my opinion, anyone who desires long term incontinence and isn’t at least a little concerned about their risk for serious infection later in life, is foolish.