BrownBobby

This is an excellent point! It's impossible to get to "absolutely, always, no ability to hold it" levels of incontinence. It's worth realizing just how far you've come, and enjoy the effect. Hope this leads to lots of wet diapers and happiness!

I admit I’m surprised that there’s been fewer urinary incontinence surgeries than bowel incontinence. I wonder if it’s because there are more “legitimate” reasons to seek it.

I've still heard the success rates of removal on these things are...hit and miss. It makes sense why they would use them for the surgery, because they never *plan* on ever having it removed - it'll likely heal right into the urethra, acting as a structural protection to avoid strictures. I wish there was a way to have it be "reversible." Given how many homemade stents are out there, there *definitely* is a market. But to get anyone to be willing to enter it...

No fair! You paid less AND got an included stent? :-p I'm interested to hear about the stent - it was one thing no urologist would consider that I could find in the US. But it sounds like this is a far more considered use case than just "hold muscles open." I'll be curious to see how it goes - good luck!

I cath now about once every 2-3 months - if I feel like I'm starting to retain, it's time for a half-day cathed. It might as well be permanence, honestly - I've been told the stricture can be cut out, but at this point...is it worth a few months of recovery? Plus, it's always kind of fun to see how easily I can put a 24fr cath in there now, given how much has been removed...

Hard to believe that time has gone so quickly, is it? I remembered that the other day. A lifetime of wanting to wet myself helplessly, and even now, the surgeries feel like they happened so long ago.

It sounds like you have a *really* compelling case for it now too. It is genuinely just easier to have no control and change a diaper on your own schedule than either constantly use a foley or have to use a cath every time you need to urinate.

FTR, you *almost* came across as sympathetic with this post. Almost. Except I *guarantee* your post did not have the effect you think it did. In fact, from what I can tell, it had rather the opposite, driving the discussion further down the path you didn't want to, to the point of a mod having to be involved. If that was your intent, I'd recommend a small ounce of self-reflection on whether or not your choice in words and tactics might be more effective. (Also notice how my own wording here is rather less muted - and for a reason. Respectful discussion, even that I might disagree with, is matched with respect. It's only disrespect or attacks that are usually met with less...respectful defenses.) Do you know what post *did* cause the tone to shift? @Jacobs opening up about *why* he felt the way he did, providing what he was comfortable with, and showing that there was WAY more to this than the usual moral policing that such a post comes to. Even in your post, you can't help but go back to it at the end - apparently we're down to just 'a lot' of people being crazy for this instead of 'everyone,' which I guess is, strictly speaking, improvement. I would point out how a significant amount of people would consider *anyone* crazy for wanting to pursue incontinence in *any* form, but I'd rather focus on the positives here. Do you know what causes positive conversation to happen? Being respectful about beliefs, honest about why you feel them, and assume the person on the other side of the argument has a reason to believe what they will. Notice how that recent aggressive post now sticks out like sore thumb - because now, it's coming in hot after the temperature has dropped. Starting a discussion with "you/we all are crazy and/or evil for wanting this, it's a form of self-harm, and anyone who encourages it in any capacity whatsoever is simply encouraging self-harm" is a sure-fire way to turn that temperature, way, way, WAY up. Suggesting that a permanent life choice needs to be made with the same care and attention as anyone would any other permanent life choice, including making sure that they'll still want it after the action is done? That turns it way down. I will also point out that, as it turns out, my first speculation was rather on the nose as to what was driving the conversation the way it was to begin with - and it's also why, I will state for the gods-knows-how-many-eth time, that *any* permanent action like this should be taken when you've tried everything else first. If it works, it's cheaper. It's a good way to get an idea of what the "after" will look like. It lets you decide where along the way you'd like to stop if there's a place you want to. And it makes sure there isn't another thing going on, mentally or sexually, that might be distorting what you think you want. Unless @Jacobs wants to continue this thread, I hope it does end here - it's clear they prefer their privacy around this, has drawn attention they perhaps didn't want to, and have gotten their greater point across. And I hope that lessons were learned for future discussions of points like this one - and that, gods forfend, maybe some day we won't have to have a special rule on this forum to keep from having people feel like they have to speak "truth to power" in any way, when they're usually just making the flames taller by doing so - something I myself am not always innocent of.

In all seriousness, calling out others in mean-spiritedness is not, and should not, be what we aspire to here. This forum should be one of support. Now that @Jacobs has clarified their position, and made it clear what they regret about what they did, there isn’t a reason to continue to attack what was a very poorly-worded first post. I would again ask for your details to be made known more widely - because, contrary to what some VERY vocal people accuse me of, I would rather ALL information around these procedures get brought to light - but I will settle for knowing you are finding help and solace in these discussions. And another gentle reminder to anyone seeking permanent incontinence via means like this - make ABSOLUTELY sure you want it. Live as though you were. Try all other methods. Talk with professionals. Because a decision like this, like all others, should never be taken lightly.

Had THIS been your first post, this thread would have gone VERY differently. Removing the first and last sentences (which are still shockingly negative and assume a lot of negative intent with everyone - maybe consider that people, generally, would like to engage positively with you instead of belittling or insulting them?), you have an INCREDIBLY good post. Because this? This is a completely, totally, 100% real consideration when it comes to anything like this. And it's exactly why I tell people to have immense caution that it's not just their sexual drive telling them to do something. When working through my own decision, the question I contemplated was "If you can never orgasm again, but you were incontinent, would it be worth it to you?" For me, the answer was yes. But it's something you DEFINITELY need to have in mind. The funny part is that I went through a similar thing myself. As I finally found the way to put it - "What happens when you finally get something you've spent decades of your life trying to get?" It's the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory "What happens to the boy who got everything he wanted?" question. I was so used to having so much of my brain focused on something that now...I just had. I've now focused on instead using that energy to try to bring awareness of this to others who were in the same situation as me - and trying to ensure there's a way to support it so that these conversation don't *have* to happen on a random ABDL forum for surgeons who aren't willing to publicly advertise what they do. But we're a bit away from that. I'm sorry that it was a sexual fetish that drove you to pursue this, and that you now realize that it exists after the sexiness is no longer there. For what little it's a consolation, you'll be far from the first to have such an experience, though you're the first I've known who have had it from having their continence surgically undone. I hope you're able to work through the shame and guilt and that void you feel - that is something that only a therapist can help with, and I hope that if there are people who are only thinking with their sexual organs about this, they read your story and have a second thought about doing it.

“Engaging even contentiously because it might help” and “literally and explicitly calling everyone who even considers this evil” are two very different things. That isn’t me putting words in your mouth. If this…really banal statement…was your point…just saying, you really, really need to work on communication skills. “Try everything else first” is literally my motto to anyone considering this stuff, which INCLUDES talking to a therapist. “Just trust me bro” is…certainly a choice for open and honest dialogue. If you’re going to share your story with anyone who DMs, but NOT going to put it here…then what exactly is the difference? You don’t have to give any personal details. But if you can’t even give the barest scrap of actual information…then your word is as useful as me claiming I’m an ice skater who can triple axel - if true, really interesting and a good data point, but very hard to take seriously without context. I hope all goes well for you - but I’m just going to let this topic wither at this point. Whether troll or inept communicator, I don’t expect much to be gained from further inquiry. (Especially since I now think I know who you are - but that’s a separate matter.) Have a good day.

EDIT: Thank you, admins, for removing this post. As the post no longer exists, I see no reason to keep the text of it either. Let’s focus back on the discussion itself.

Your whole argument would have a lick of sense, and a leg to stand on, if most of those people didn't come in as the morality police to preach the Gospel to the sinners and non-believers who wallow in their wickedness. As you just did here, right now, with your post. I've helpfully highlighted it for you. And I believe that rather proves the point.

I'm glad you have a therapist - they are truly handy no matter what path you take through any of this. Though a word of caution to anyone - if any therapist tells you they can "cure" this, be incredibly cautious. Manage or help temper, yes. Absolutely. But this particular category of thing has a rather established pattern of being VERY difficult to make disappear forever, if not impossible. Regardless, get help if you'd like it - seriously. You'll never, ever hear me say otherwise. There's a reason I got buy-off from three therapists before getting my operation.

These are not mutually exclusive categories, unfortunately. Part of why you’ll see me speak so much about not taking medications without a doctor’s advice is a very hard-learned lesson there. Which is exactly why I *want* this to be an open and transparent dialogue. In the absence of peer reviewed research or case studies (though I’ve also helped start create those), were only left with messy anecdotal evidence. And the only way to make sense of it is to let everyone feel like they can bring it to light, when done so respectfully and in good faith.