trigger warning TW - SA/CSEM: Is the bad history of ABDL and what happened from the 90s up to the 2010's remembered?

[AngelBaby]

I wont rehash the dark history in the ABDL community in that time period in this post, because it may not be appropriate outside of a setting specific for that topic, but I do feel the need to ask a few questions, and hope the community will be supportive and responsive.

I got into ABDL in the early 90's, and explored several communities. I watched a lot of events unfold, and eventually had to take a side. I am proud of which side I chose to support. When I try to talk about the history of the community during that time period, I am often met with hostility. I was even banned from a discord server for my knowledge, and called a few unkind words. I also researched the psychology of ABDL, I have a deep respect for the difference between regressive ABDL, and age play ABDL. I acknowledge there are cases where people may have unconventional relationships, even questionable and at times troubling ones, but it is a reality they may have lived and their story to tell. I basically have seen most, but not all, within ABDL over the years.

I firmly believe if we forget history, we are doomed to repeat it. There is a history in the ABDL community and a schism in the late 90's and early 00's, which I think the community has forgotten about. It is a history we should never let happen again, but talking about it, teaching it, is difficult and I have never found a way to cover it or talk about it. I might be over-thinking things, but that is why I am asking questions, to test if I am over-thinking this.

Please, give me feedback to these questions, and lets talk about it.

1. Do you know about the schism in the ABDL community towards the end of the 90's?
2. Do you know what the schism was about?
3. Do you know about Dartsy or [That OTHER site]?
   Please, do not search for these. If you have questions, please message me and I will explain. Both are thankfully defunct.
4. How do you feel about age of characters in ABDL stories, both sexual and non-sexual?
5. Do you ever talk about the topic of CSEM in the ABDL community?
6. Do you have a source of information about the history of ABDL from the 90's and forward?

I would like to eventually find a way to approach the topic and preserve the knowledge in the community.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

There is already a thread on this matter going back beyond the 90's to which I contributed

Never heard of any schism

Don't know what means CSME

AS far as the age of characters. I always felt that IT'S FICTION and and  underage characters are stand-in's for the reader or writer for the sake of immersion. As far as IRL, I was a bit put out when DPF started printing correspondence from underage persons in the newsletter

[Apache Raccoon]

 

3 hours ago, AngelBaby said:

I got into ABDL in the early 90's, and explored several communities

I'm assuming the real age on your profile is incorrect then?

Say's your 30 but I'm 35 and I would have been way too young to be involved with ABDL in the early 90s: I mean I was still a toddler in the EARLY 90s.

3 hours ago, AngelBaby said:

1. Do you know about the schism in the ABDL community towards the end of the 90's?
2. Do you know what the schism was about?

No, haven't a clue what you're talking about

3 hours ago, AngelBaby said:

3. Do you know about Dartsy or [That OTHER site]?

Never heard of Dartsy but if by that other site you mean ABDL's Voldemort whose name rhymes with beaker then yeah I've heard of that.

3 hours ago, AngelBaby said:

4. How do you feel about age of characters in ABDL stories, both sexual and non-sexual?

Don't approve of minors in sexual stories but I'm grateful we have a space to write stories about minors in a none-sexual stories on websites like here on Daily Diapers.

I want to be a kid again, hence why I identify as an adult kid: so stories about minors or an adult mistaken for one appeals to me.

3 hours ago, AngelBaby said:

5. Do you ever talk about the topic of CSEM in the ABDL community?

I don't know what that is

3 hours ago, AngelBaby said:

6. Do you have a source of information about the history of ABDL from the 90's and forward?

I've heard bits of information, like about Tommy who ran some website called DPF and there was some magazine or something I seem to remember @Little BabyDoll Christinementioned in a thread.

[Babypants]

I'm one of the resident old farts on this site, and in the 80's and 90's was a proud member of DPF.  My ties to the ABDL community in SoCal go back to '66-77, and Uba's shop in West Hollywood.  I remember no schisms, and like Christine and Raccoon, simply have no idea what you are talking about.  I share their conviction that there is no place on this site for stories that sexually exploit children.  Quite a few stories here make me uncomfortable because in my mind there is a very fine line between abuse of children, and sexual exploitation of children.  First generation magazines like Rubber Life stayed far away from children, and I do not recall the DPF story board offering up stories anywhere close to what regularly appears on this site.  We were a very quiet group because there was a widely shared conviction that the public would equate AB/DL with pedophilia. If you are looking for a change in the public's attitude that reverberated across those of us in/into diapers, the Jerry Springer show is probably the place to begin.   

[AngelBaby]

1 hour ago, Babypants said:

I'm one of the resident old farts on this site, and in the 80's and 90's was a proud member of DPF.  My ties to the ABDL community in SoCal go back to '66-77, and Uba's shop in West Hollywood.  I remember no schisms, and like Christine and Raccoon, simply have no idea what you are talking about.  I share their conviction that there is no place on this site for stories that sexually exploit children.  Quite a few stories here make me uncomfortable because in my mind there is a very fine line between abuse of children, and sexual exploitation of children.  First generation magazines like Rubber Life stayed far away from children, and I do not recall the DPF story board offering up stories anywhere close to what regularly appears on this site.  We were a very quiet group because there was a widely shared conviction that the public would equate AB/DL with pedophilia. If you are looking for a change in the public's attitude that reverberated across those of us in/into diapers, the Jerry Springer show is probably the place to begin.   

Your reply is important, because of how long you have been in the community. I value it, because it has a lot of important information; you don't recall any such schism, or the reasons why it occured. It did happen, I know why it happened, and was even part of the reason that other site was closed; I consulted with the Dalton county police about ABDL, but what was said I don't feel comfortable touching upon. The difference between what you and I saw is important, but what it means I am not certain of.

I hope we can compare notes later.

[ValentinesStuff]

I'm not as old as Babypants, but I've been around for a while. I was on Compuserve and since have bopped around various forums and such. 

1 & 2: I'm not sure what you are referring. The only separation I can think of is between those that believe it's all sexual and the rest of us. 

3: I vaguely remember a few mentions of Dartsy, and I do remember Voldemort's site.

4: I prefer stories that occur in what I would call a "real world" setting, even if it is sci Fi or fantasy. So children exist. In stories there should be no sexual situations involving children. I report these to moderators when I find them. I also now of authors that get around this by declaring their characters over 18, no matter how old they act or are described as.

5: Had to look up CSEM to see what it means. Only when an arrest pops up in the news.

6: Nope.

 

If you want to preserve the info, set up a website, or a hard drive, or the Cloud. 

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

Are we ever going to have explained what we were teased with? Because it is all new to me and I have been in the ABDL community since 1983

[AngelBaby]

On 6/14/2023 at 4:45 AM, Little BabyDoll Christine said:

Are we ever going to have explained what we were teased with? Because it is all new to me and I have been in the ABDL community since 1983

Okay.

CSEM = Child Sexual Exploitation Material.

Dartsy, voldamort, and [That OTHER site] were websites/collections of minors in diapers and AB/DL scenes. [That OTHER site] was for the longest time in a grey area, because law enforcement couldnt see the sexualization of it. To them, it was really weird and disgusting, but not illegal. Then someone tracked down a couple of the girls and that was enough to bring that site down.

The schism in the community was about minors in the community, and the sexualization of minors. Not the trade of CSEM, although that of course was within the scope of the schism. Just the sexualization.

From responses here, I can say it is implied the schism was limited to a much smaller community within the larger abdl community.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

Kiddie pron was never even a hundredth of ta part of the ABDL/LG community. In fact the LG attitude was best explained with "The difference between a pedo and an ALG (Adult Little Girl) is that when each sees an adorable little girl in a cute outfit, the pedo thinks "how can I get hert out of that outfit'?' The ALG thinks 'how can I get an oufit like that for myself'". The " onnection" was made by malicious individuals to take advantiage of the ignorant and willfully ignorant

[that site] and other sucn phenomenon had nothing to do with ABDL groups and all sunc gourps were roundly condemned by all the major ABDL groups 24/7/52/allatime

Much in the way of schisms is simply people being People; arguing over both major and itsy-bitsly teeny-weeny matters as though they were Everst-size mountain, with motivations ranging from legitimate to simple poweer grabs. They are all over the place in any organized system

Now the issue of minors falls into 3 categories
1. ABDL fiction: Yes, some of the characters were children going back to the beginning. Nowsflash: This IS ABDL fiction. These were stand-in 's for the reader and according to Gene Burnes (WRKO AM 680 Bosotn, MA wkdays 10AM-2PM) in long monologues and discussions on kiddie pron in the lat '80's/early 90's, "Since these are not real persons, nobody is injured or misrepresented as actual, so this cannot be pornography". He must have been aware of ABDL/BDSM
2. Part of the motivation for allowing minors into any ABDL groups, mostly DPF, was to be of help to the kids who were experiencing ABDL feelings and were getting no help from elsewhere.The original arrangement was that a minor was chosen anonymously and a volunteer "mentor" was chosen anonymously so that the two did not know each other by name and were connected, all of this being heavily monotored, to protect the minor, usually a teenager. This was all to be kept out of the literature or even the non-participating members' awareness
3. "That Timer" in the 2k timeframe when some of the above material got into the DPF Newsletter in the form of some of the minors' material printied anonymouely. Tommy was, healthwise, on the way out and he and Marky had lost control of DPF. This was really the beginning of the end of that otherwise gold standard of DPF

So, as far as I am concerned, The only relation between such things and ABDL/ALG is tangential or did not amount to a gnat's dropping in a meadow. As with everything else; so with ABDL: CONTEXT and PROPORTION

[ValentinesStuff]

Laws around the world vary, and they vary greatly even amongst the Western Nations. From my understanding, and I am not a lawyer, in the US fictional sexual acts involving children are not illegal, whether written or drawn, as long as the material does not depict real people or can be construed as a 'how to' manual. In other countries these would be illegal and even accidentally downloading such files would be prosecutable. 

This came up on a TG fiction website while they were having server problems and trying to find a new host site. While the stories were all legal within the US, potentially some were not in Canada and European countries. This was about the only time a discussion about underage characters in fiction being discussed outside the ABDL community. TG fiction is comprised of a lot of underage characters, many that are abused, both sexually and nonsexually.  Every so often someone will post about "depicting children is horrible" and nearly everyone else ignores them. Oddly those complaints tend to be about extremely nonsexual stories, but very real world transitioning situations.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

8 hours ago, ValentinesStuff said:

Laws around the world vary, and they vary greatly even amongst the Western Nations. From my understanding, and I am not a lawyer, in the US fictional sexual acts involving children are not illegal, whether written or drawn, as long as the material does not depict real people or can be construed as a 'how to' manual. In other countries these would be illegal and even accidentally downloading such files would be prosecutable. 

This came up on a TG fiction website while they were having server problems and trying to find a new host site. While the stories were all legal within the US, potentially some were not in Canada and European countries. This was about the only time a discussion about underage characters in fiction being discussed outside the ABDL community. TG fiction is comprised of a lot of underage characters, many that are abused, both sexually and nonsexually.  Every so often someone will post about "depicting children is horrible" and nearly everyone else ignores them. Oddly those complaints tend to be about extremely nonsexual stories, but very real world transitioning situations.

At one time, the server provider did not snoop on the content, but that changed about a dozen and change years ago. If you wish to implement this, what you can do is find an adult-friendly IP in a country where the laws are pretty lax. A lot of YouTubers work out of some pretty strange places, like Prague and one of the pieces of Jugo-Slavia. You are NOT going to be using SquareSpace