Becoming a Bedwetter - When Irreversible?

[stevewet]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:51 AM, Craig said:

I’m one of those fortunate ones with a history of child bedwetting as I’ve shared elsewhere on this site. While parents worked to bring it to an end, their efforts were are best marginally successful.

To be honest about this — which I do nowhere but here — I hit a point in my early teens that I didn’t want to try to stop. Why mess up a good thing? Yes, it was and is a weird pleasure. There are lots of weird pleasures. So what? There were times I wised I had worked hard to try to get it under control, but fortunately I resisted those attempts.

I know, nobody gets why some of us like wetting ourselves while asleep. I don’t understand it. I know that it hurts no one, I get a rush from wetting my diapers while I’m in bed if I’m awake as well as going to bed dry and waking waking up wet — or even wetter. So, no foul. 

I’m sure my enthusiasm for being a bedwetter has helped keep it permanent. Could it be cured after so many years? Maybe improved with meds and stuff? But improvement is useless. If you can cut your frequency of wetting in your sleep down from five times a week to one, you still have to wear diapers to bed or be prepared to soak the sheets since you don’t know when that one time per week will happen.

A professional would probably say that I sound like someone who doesn’t want to stop wetting the bed. Right. I admit it. It’s just that I had a head start on this when I was young. As I said, let’s keep a good thing going!

For those who are trying to become bedwetters — an admirable goal — you’ll see all kinds of advice on this site. Just stay with the program. One suggestion I can make is to enjoy the journey as much as the destination.

 

I was one of the few that never wanted to curb my bedwetting.

[gregs]

For me it went realy fast, but there is no clear "Point of no return". I was wearing diapers for years without any intend to be dependend on them. About 3 Years ago I came accros this board and got interested in the idea of realy beeing a bedwetter. So I tried some of the tips that folks wrote here. So after one month of wearing diapers consistently I tried to stop, and it was realy hard. The first nights i had to get up ever 10 minutes or so. It got better after some times. but weeks later the urge returned, and I went back to wear diapers all nights. And it got wears and wears. 

[DiapergirlWB]

I am not dependent as much as trained.  I wet freely and without any real notice most times.  I can't pinpoint the exact moment I stopped noticing when i wet..it was over a period of time.  there was a few months ago I remember going to bed thinking i didn't remember wetting at all that day.  I can still hold though I don't intentionally do it but there are still some unintentional clenches I do not test the ability.  the closest I have to a test was when I had to concentrate to keep my stump still during an mri because it moves involuntarily if my leg isnt on and when the mri was over i noticed that i had to pee and that i had been holding too.

[Rob110]

Remember bedwetting can lead to accidents in the day time if you take a nap or fall asleep in the car so when traveling you may need to be diapered 

[babykeiff]

8 hours ago, Rob110 said:

Remember bedwetting can lead to accidents in the day time if you take a nap or fall asleep in the car so when traveling you may need to be diapered 

You are correct, but bed wetting also leads to daytime wetting / weak daytime bladder control and eventually, if let continue / not stopped, full diaper dependance as you had as a baby/toddler prior to being toilet trained. After all, you have convinced your mind that it is ok to use the diaper and doing so does not make you uncomfortable and/or cause leaks - one of the reasons you were toilet trained.

Bed wetting is all about the lack of production of vasopressin. As a result, the bladder fills as if your were awake, and since the trigger to void is being ignored when asleep, without one keeping an eye on bladder needs, daytime accidents are bound to follow.

A toilet trained toddler / young child is sometimes diapered on long car journeys and overnight to prevent accidents. However, the toddler / young child will still have daytime accidents until the time that they are reliably dry overnight and are not diapered / wearing pull-ups overnight.

It is about habits and associated behaviour. Your mind has accepted that you wet your diapers etc overnight i.e., as soon as the bladder is full, release it without informing you - however, there is an exception - when you are awake. This exception is overridden the evening you diaper yourself early before going to bed and/or the morning that you change out of your night diaper a little later. As a result, the mind will revert to emptying the bladder day/night without informing you - i.e. revert to the habit of using your diapers as pre-toilet trained. At that stage, you have two options -

1. retrain and deal with the odd daytime accident (as a toddler/young child would have)
2. fully diaper and get used to changing both wet and messy diapers - as once you are comfortable in the wet daytime diaper, it won't be long before your body will start messing the diaper either as you eat and/or shortly afterwards as well as over night.

[justforfun]

On 4/21/2023 at 2:40 PM, babykeiff said:

You are correct, but bed wetting also leads to daytime wetting / weak daytime bladder control and eventually, if let continue / not stopped, full diaper dependance as you had as a baby/toddler prior to being toilet trained. After all, you have convinced your mind that it is ok to use the diaper and doing so does not make you uncomfortable and/or cause leaks - one of the reasons you were toilet trained.

Bed wetting is all about the lack of production of vasopressin. As a result, the bladder fills as if your were awake, and since the trigger to void is being ignored when asleep, without one keeping an eye on bladder needs, daytime accidents are bound to follow.

A toilet trained toddler / young child is sometimes diapered on long car journeys and overnight to prevent accidents. However, the toddler / young child will still have daytime accidents until the time that they are reliably dry overnight and are not diapered / wearing pull-ups overnight.

It is about habits and associated behaviour. Your mind has accepted that you wet your diapers etc overnight i.e., as soon as the bladder is full, release it without informing you - however, there is an exception - when you are awake. This exception is overridden the evening you diaper yourself early before going to bed and/or the morning that you change out of your night diaper a little later. As a result, the mind will revert to emptying the bladder day/night without informing you - i.e. revert to the habit of using your diapers as pre-toilet trained. At that stage, you have two options -

1. retrain and deal with the odd daytime accident (as a toddler/young child would have)
2. fully diaper and get used to changing both wet and messy diapers - as once you are comfortable in the wet daytime diaper, it won't be long before your body will start messing the diaper either as you eat and/or shortly afterwards as well as over night.

"[Citation Needed]"

While I think that the path you lay out may be the fantasy, I don't see the reality of what your saying play out either in my life, where I trained myself back to sleep-wetting, or from when I talk to other adults who sleep wet.  While I may wet anytime I fall asleep, be it bed, chair, or car, I have had zero issues while awake.  While that's a "n=1" case, I also don't hear stories of adult who are "natural" enuretics experiencing unusual daytime problems?

 

[babykeiff]

1 hour ago, justforfun said:

"[Citation Needed]"

While I think that the path you lay out may be the fantasy, I don't see the reality of what your saying play out either in my life, where I trained myself back to sleep-wetting, or from when I talk to other adults who sleep wet.  While I may wet anytime I fall asleep, be it bed, chair, or car, I have had zero issues while awake.  While that's a "n=1" case, I also don't hear stories of adult who are "natural" enuretics experiencing unusual daytime problems?

 

I accept the fact that you disagree with my post and presume that what I state is fantasy, but will not provide citation for one to claim as 'fake news' etc.

Secondly, just cause something has not happened does not equate that it will not happen! You may be a case in point - that have reverted to sleep wetting. This was not a training routine but more of repeating what you already knew how to do. What I am expressing / warning is the difference to the mind of wetting while asleep vs wetting while awake is very little. That requirement is new knowledge and not something that you and others practiced as a baby / adult. You have convinced your mind that there is no need to wake so you can void = when fully relaxed, it is not required to 'wake' to empty ones bladder.

Now we ask the critical question, at what level of relaxation is the process of wetting allowed? Do you actually know? Can you provide proof to your answer? It is known that a baby wets out of habit, and never put a 'level of relaxation' to restrict wetting / messing.

Thirdly, a pre-toilet trained baby wet and messed out of habit and training. See natural voiding methodology as envoked by many parents in the so called 'undeveloped world'. Habits are only broken / surpressed, never eliminated.

So although you may not have heard of people who admits that due to bed wetting have progressed / regressed to day time wetting, it IS a common progression based on how one repeats actions / behaviour once aquired / mastered.

Also, wetting while asleep is not only a habit for some, it is based on many other factors. Most of these factors are not triggered by being asleep.

[justforfun]

8 hours ago, babykeiff said:

I accept the fact that you disagree with my post and presume that what I state is fantasy, but will not provide citation for one to claim as 'fake news' etc.

Um.  Ok. 

8 hours ago, babykeiff said:

Secondly, just cause something has not happened does not equate that it will not happen! You may be a case in point - that have reverted to sleep wetting. This was not a training routine but more of repeating what you already knew how to do. What I am expressing / warning is the difference to the mind of wetting while asleep vs wetting while awake is very little. That requirement is new knowledge and not something that you and others practiced as a baby / adult. You have convinced your mind that there is no need to wake so you can void = when fully relaxed, it is not required to 'wake' to empty ones bladder.

Yes?  I taught/trained myself something new... that releasing the bladder when sleeping is fine.  That is indeed new knowledge that I practiced as an adult?

8 hours ago, babykeiff said:

Now we ask the critical question, at what level of relaxation is the process of wetting allowed? Do you actually know? Can you provide proof to your answer? It is known that a baby wets out of habit, and never put a 'level of relaxation' to restrict wetting / messing.

I can only give my anecdotal answer, which is that I will possibly wet sometime after I fall asleep, but not when I'm awake.  Can I prove it?  Um, I have 20 years of personal experience, but, as you said, I "will not provide citation for one to claim as 'fake news' etc."

8 hours ago, babykeiff said:

Thirdly, a pre-toilet trained baby wet and messed out of habit and training. See natural voiding methodology as envoked by many parents in the so called 'undeveloped world'. Habits are only broken / surpressed, never eliminated.

Not sure if this is relevant or not.

8 hours ago, babykeiff said:

So although you may not have heard of people who admits that due to bed wetting have progressed / regressed to day time wetting, it IS a common progression based on how one repeats actions / behaviour once aquired / mastered.

You're making the claim that it's common, but refusing to substantiate that claim?  That was the question I was asking... _why_ do you claim that it's a common progression?

8 hours ago, babykeiff said:

Also, wetting while asleep is not only a habit for some, it is based on many other factors. Most of these factors are not triggered by being asleep.

Ok?  Not sure how that relates to the conversation or claim that _if_ one trains one's self to wet while asleep that:

On 4/21/2023 at 2:40 PM, babykeiff said:

bed wetting also leads to daytime wetting / weak daytime bladder control and eventually, if let continue / not stopped, full diaper dependance as you had as a baby/toddler prior to being toilet trained.

On what basis do you make that claim?

[babykeiff]

9 minutes ago, justforfun said:

Yes?  I taught/trained myself something new... that releasing the bladder when sleeping is fine.

The point that you seem to be glossing over is that the new item that you trained yourself is that there is a difference between sleeping and waking to your bladder control and behaviour HOWEVER, you already had the habit (that toilet training only supressed) of wetting awake or asleep.

Actually, if you do some simple research, you will find that the bladder processes occur 24/7/365 whether you are awake or asleep.

The key is, what is the difference to your mind processes etc between being awake or asleep? The real answer is nothing. As a result, why do you think that while asleep you can wet without any issue and that that process will not repeat while awake?

Vasopressin is the chemical that reduces urine production asleep. The longer you sleep wet, the less of this you will process, as you have trained / remembered how to wet while asleep. Actually, your bladder sphincters are relaxing while asleep which is allowing the bladder to empty without it being full. As less and less vasopressin will be produced, the bladder will fill further and further overnight to such an extent that the bladder will empty multiple times while asleep - some from a full bladder.

This behaviour is what you did prior to being toilet trained out of habit day and night - the habit that you were toilet trained out of, the habit that you trained yourself to repeat - and you state that you will not loose daytime control.

As sure as the sun rises and sets, you will loose the daytime bladder control unless you reverse the night time control - and unless you retrain, it is only a matter of when.

[stevewet]

On 2/3/2023 at 1:57 PM, CodHero24 said:

In my case, after training to be a bedwetter,

it became immediately permanent because I have absolutely no desire to go back to being dry at night.

I love waking up soggy, every single morning.

Wearing a diaper every night allows me to drink plenty of fluids before bed, with total uninterrupted deep sleep,

vivid dreams, and I wake up feeling refreshed every morning.

The biggest challenge is sleep-overs at friends and family, due mainly to overall inventory and also disposal.

You are right about the vivid dreams. I subconsciously know when I'm wet because of the very strange and vivid dreams.

On 2/3/2023 at 1:57 PM, CodHero24 said:

In my case, after training to be a bedwetter,

it became immediately permanent because I have absolutely no desire to go back to being dry at night.

I love waking up soggy, every single morning.

Wearing a diaper every night allows me to drink plenty of fluids before bed, with total uninterrupted deep sleep,

vivid dreams, and I wake up feeling refreshed every morning.

The biggest challenge is sleep-overs at friends and family, due mainly to overall inventory and also disposal.

You are right about the vivid dreams. I subconsciously know when I'm wet because of the very strange and vivid dreams.