Update: It’s starting to sink in that my incontinence is permanent at this point. It’s doing a number on me.

[Enthusi]

Hi this is just a personal update, though I imagine it applies to others who have been in my shoes. 

Recently I read several places that after so many years of unpotty training, it’s irreversible. (User Kali-is-an-abdl on Tumblr has a post about it.)  I’m at 5 years. Originally I was skeptical of this claim. Though after much consideration I have to admit that I don’t think I can successfully repotty train at this point.   My bladder control is shot; I feel too scared to go without diapers and I would probably subconsciously undermine any efforts so I could stay in diapers.  

Even though I want to be in diapers the rest of my life… the permanency of my actions are just now sinking in.  It’s weird to think that I no longer have much of a say in it. 

Here are some of the things I’m thinking about: 

- There is no longer any point in testing my level of continence.  If my bladder control worsens, I’m still going to be in diapers. Even if it turns out that I have more control than I thought, it’s not good enough to be out of diapers.  

- Similarly, I still have some bladder control.  Even though it’s not nearly enough to be of practical use, it’s a source of frustration for me. However it occurred to me that if I really am stuck in diapers, which seems to be the case, then it doesn’t matter if I could have made it to the toilet or not.

- I don’t have to decide if I want to achieve bowel incontinence or not. Regardless of the answer I’m still in diapers.  

- It doesn’t really matter what others such as health care professionals, or family, or whoever thinks of me being in diapers. I mean I want to be accepted just as much as anyone else. But I don’t really have a choice in the matter any more. 

Anyways where I’m at with things.  It’s still kind of trippy to think of myself as stuck in diapers.  But I’m not exactly complaining about it! ❤️❤️❤️

[Little Cub Pants]

1 hour ago, Enthusi said:

Hi this is just a personal update, though I imagine it applies to others who have been in my shoes. 

Recently I read several places that after so many years of unpotty training, it’s irreversible. (User Kali-is-an-abdl on Tumblr has a post about it.)  I’m at 5 years. Originally I was skeptical of this claim. Though after much consideration I have to admit that I don’t think I can successfully repotty train at this point.   My bladder control is shot; I feel too scared to go without diapers and I would probably subconsciously undermine any efforts so I could stay in diapers.  

Even though I want to be in diapers the rest of my life… the permanency of my actions are just now sinking in.  It’s weird to think that I no longer have much of a say in it. 

Here are some of the things I’m thinking about: 

- There is no longer any point in testing my level of continence.  If my bladder control worsens, I’m still going to be in diapers. Even if it turns out that I have more control than I thought, it’s not good enough to be out of diapers.  

- Similarly, I still have some bladder control.  Even though it’s not nearly enough to be of practical use, it’s a source of frustration for me. However it occurred to me that if I really am stuck in diapers, which seems to be the case, then it doesn’t matter if I could have made it to the toilet or not.

- I don’t have to decide if I want to achieve bowel incontinence or not. Regardless of the answer I’m still in diapers.  

- It doesn’t really matter what others such as health care professionals, or family, or whoever thinks of me being in diapers. I mean I want to be accepted just as much as anyone else. But I don’t really have a choice in the matter any more. 

Anyways where I’m at with things.  It’s still kind of trippy to think of myself as stuck in diapers.  But I’m not exactly complaining about it! ❤️❤️❤️

I hope it's what you wanted. Congratulations buddy!? If it's not, then you should've really considered that, because there's no going back after this. It's too late now. Personally I hope you're happy with your decision. I know I would be!??☺️ Maybe for some people being stuck in diapies would take the fun out of it, but not for me. I would love to be, just not now for various reasons in my life. Anyway I'm glad you love your situation buddy!❤️ Just be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it!???????❤️

[Enthusi]

It ABSOLUTELY is what I wanted. But it’s weird to think that it doesn’t really matter any more. 

[oznl]

I’d be interested to see what a urologist makes of your current state.

I’m genuinely curious to see if there is actually a physiological condition.  If there is, I’d imagine that would throw light on whether it might be reversible.

At the back of my mind has been the idea that if I should reach a point where I am regularly daytime incontinent, I should bite the bullet and consult with a practitioner to make sure that whatever condition had arisen was not of itself dangerous.

My acquisition of bed wetting doesn’t meet this threshold requirement in my mind.  I’m quite convinced it is 100% behavioural and that with behavior modification therapy, it could be recovered (I’m thinking a simple bedwetting alarm).

Daytime incontinence is a different kettle of fish.

Question though: looking back, what were the first hints/symptoms you saw to suggest that something like actual waking incontinence was arising?

I’m trying to work out of some minor stuff going on might be the thin end of a wedge or just my active imagination at play.

[Enthusi]

@oznl that’s a great question!  Though I doubt I’ll have an answer without doing urodynamic testing. 
 

In my experience daytime incontinence is insidious. It doesn’t feel like anything.  I feel the exact same as I felt my whole life. I can can close off my sphincter muscle just as well as I could 20 years ago.  It’s just that 9/10 times when I try to hold it in, my bladder just sort of gives up. If anything it feels like I’m being lazy in the sense that if I tried just a little harder I would’ve made it.  A lot of times I feel like I either gave up and intentionally, or waited too long to the bathroom.  Though over and over and over again I pee myself.  I suppose that’s why it took so long for me to “accept” myself as incontinent.   
 

And yes there are potentially serious consequences of long term incontinence. For starters there’s the risk of developing urinary retention if the bladder stops voiding completely.  That can be harmful to the kidneys if it gets severe enough.  Also, decades from now when I’m older and more prone to infections and less able to change myself, there’s a real and serious risk of skin breakdown and infections.  Though I decided I would rather live the next 3-4 decades as happily incontinent and risk a serious infection towards the end of my life over being miserable and toilet trained and living slightly longer. 

[oznl]

2 hours ago, Enthusi said:

@oznl that’s a great question!  Though I doubt I’ll have an answer without doing urodynamic testing. 
 

In my experience daytime incontinence is insidious. It doesn’t feel like anything.  I feel the exact same as I felt my whole life. I can can close off my sphincter muscle just as well as I could 20 years ago.  It’s just that 9/10 times when I try to hold it in, my bladder just sort of gives up. If anything it feels like I’m being lazy in the sense that if I tried just a little harder I would’ve made it.  A lot of times I feel like I either gave up and intentionally, or waited too long to the bathroom.  Though over and over and over again I pee myself.  I suppose that’s why it took so long for me to “accept” myself as incontinent.  

So the initiation of a pee remains voluntary (assuming you are not disregarding an urge)?  I know my ability to stop a pee (once it has started) is now severely diminished, I may be able to pause it for a second or so but it will restart, but nevertheless the decision to start it in the first place remains mine.  Or, at least I imagine it is...

Many have spoken about involuntary leakage outside of any specific pee urge.  Have you seen anything like that (outside of bed wetting of course).

[Little Cub Pants]

9 hours ago, Enthusi said:

It ABSOLUTELY is what I wanted. But it’s weird to think that it doesn’t really matter any more. 

Well, good buddy! I'm happy to hear that. And yeah I get what you mean. It's surreal having to get used to wearing diapers again and losing control of all your ability to go pee-pee and poo-poo whenever you want to, like when you were a baby. But in time that will fade away and it will just become a part of everyday life. Diapers all day, everyday equals yay!!!!?????❤️ And on the bright side, no more POTTY TRAINING!!!!! Take that parents!???? *Giggles* nothing's gonna stop you now!??☺️?❤️?❤️?? I'm so happy for you buddy! Congratulations!?? ?"You're a little kid now!"?

[Kif]

?Congratulations! I've seen you comment before about how you find any amount of control icky, and I'm happy to see you...Happy! ?

5 hours ago, Enthusi said:

In my experience daytime incontinence is insidious. It doesn’t feel like anything.  I feel the exact same as I felt my whole life. I can can close off my sphincter muscle just as well as I could 20 years ago.  It’s just that 9/10 times when I try to hold it in, my bladder just sort of gives up. If anything it feels like I’m being lazy in the sense that if I tried just a little harder I would’ve made it.  A lot of times I feel like I either gave up and intentionally, or waited too long to the bathroom.  Though over and over and over again I pee myself.  I suppose that’s why it took so long for me to “accept” myself as incontinent.  

Thanks a lot for sharing this! ?

I've seen how Kali et al have talked about having "not enough continence to be practical" and knowing that plus seeing you describe how it meant to your journey is extremely helpful! 

[Enthusi]

4 hours ago, Kif said:

 

?Congratulations! I've seen you comment before about how you find any amount of control icky, and I'm happy to see you...Happy! ?

10 hours ago, Enthusi said:

 

Thanks!!! ? 

 

And for what it’s worth I love reading your updates and it sounds like you’re making nice progress. 

[Enthusi]

8 hours ago, oznl said:

Many have spoken about involuntary leakage outside of any specific pee urge.  Have you seen anything like that (outside of bed wetting of course).

You would think this would be an easy question to answer.   Though exactly how much, and what exactly is leaking is hard to decipher.   Often times I will feel dampness inside my diaper but the lines are yellow.  
 

I did a time lapse a few months ago where I went without a diaper for a few hours.  I genuinely tried to hold it in at first but it clearly didn’t work out.  ?‍♂️  Anyways you can see in the first two videos that there are tiny wet spots. The reason why the 15 and 30 min look about the same is because in between spots would form and dry.  But yeah I guess I do dribble!!   ?.  These days there would probably be even more spots forming and drying. 
 

 

 

 

[Little Cub Pants]

1 hour ago, Enthusi said:

You would think this would be an easy question to answer.   Though exactly how much, and what exactly is leaking is hard to decipher.   Often times I will feel dampness inside my diaper but the lines are yellow.  
 

I did a time lapse a few months ago where I went without a diaper for a few hours.  I genuinely tried to hold it in at first but it clearly didn’t work out.  ?‍♂️  Anyways you can see in the first two videos that there are tiny wet spots. The reason why the 15 and 30 min look about the same is because in between spots would form and dry.  But yeah I guess I do dribble!!   ?.  These days there would probably be even more spots forming and drying. 
 

 

 

 

You look good buddy!???❤️ *BIG HUGS!*???????❤️?❤️? Also, thanks for posting this! I loved it a lot buddy! Keep up the good work!??☺️❤️?❤️?????❤️

[Kif]

1 hour ago, Enthusi said:

...I did a time lapse a few months ago...

That's super cool!

It's really interesting to see how that works, and interesting how you observed that wetspots could form and then dry especially if they were small. But in the end, it clearly was a "losing" battle, haha, despite your genuine efforts to not let it happen.

I'm suuuuper tempted to try this for myself in a year or two, might be validating in a fun way...

[Enthusi]

@BabySpiderBoy and @Kif thanks for the kind words.  I enjoyed making this time lapse series as much as I enjoyed sharing it. Though as you can imagine its hard to find other people who appreciate it! Hahahaha.  Hugs!!!

[oznl]

16 hours ago, Enthusi said:

You would think this would be an easy question to answer.   Though exactly how much, and what exactly is leaking is hard to decipher.   Often times I will feel dampness inside my diaper but the lines are yellow.  
 

I did a time lapse a few months ago where I went without a diaper for a few hours.  I genuinely tried to hold it in at first but it clearly didn’t work out.  ?‍♂️  Anyways you can see in the first two videos that there are tiny wet spots. The reason why the 15 and 30 min look about the same is because in between spots would form and dry.  But yeah I guess I do dribble!!   ?.  These days there would probably be even more spots forming and drying. 
 

 

 

 

If that's happening without you noticing it, you're well ahead of me during the day!  That kind of stuff only happens to me in bed.

I was able to go without a nappy for a couple of hours for some medical stuff a few weeks ago.  It felt strange, I didn't like it much, and urgency came on quick but my jeans were dry when I changed back into a nappy (which I promptly and gratefully used).

The things I may or may not have noticed during the day might be some post-void dripping.  As all the action is taking place inside my nappy, it's kind of hard to work out what is going on.

I suspect daytime voiding dysfunction has arrived.

 

[Enthusi]

So as an update… it’s been a few more days and it’s still not fully sunk in yet.  
 

It’s difficult to wrap my mind around the idea that I (likely) need to have a diaper on at ALL TIMES for the rest of my life.   No breaks. No take-backs.  That means I will never again feel what it’s like to go out and about in just normal cloth underwear.  
 

I’m still ecstatic about it the prospect.  But it changes things when it’s required 24/7 with no escape.  

[doogles]

On 10/15/2021 at 8:23 PM, oznl said:

My acquisition of bed wetting doesn’t meet this threshold requirement in my mind.  I’m quite convinced it is 100% behavioural and that with behavior modification therapy, it could be recovered (I’m thinking a simple bedwetting alarm).

You know, I'd rather be a bedwetter than have sleep apnea. Without my CPAP, I can't get more than an hour of actual sleep. When I was tested, I had over 60 arousals an hour. Severe is half that. On top of this, I'll have to get up 3-4 times a night unless I want to dehydrate myself. Now with my CPAP and my stent, I've been getting the best sleep of my life.

 

It boggles my mind that my weird "extreme" kink (according to those on other sites) is actually better for my long term health.

[Little Cub Pants]

23 minutes ago, Enthusi said:

So as an update… it’s been a few more days and it’s still not fully sunk in yet.  
 

It’s difficult to wrap my mind around the idea that I (likely) need to have a diaper on at ALL TIMES for the rest of my life.   No breaks. No take-backs.  That means I will never again feel what it’s like to go out and about in just normal cloth underwear.  
 

I’m still ecstatic about it the prospect.  But it changes things when it’s required 24/7 with no escape.  

That's good news buddy! Wearing diapies is way more fun anyway, especially after a good movie pee-pee and the diapie swells up and becomes super thick. Ugh, it's heaven!??? I also like a good pee-pee rub with my diapie on! It feels so good!??☺️?❤️?? Anyway moving on, pull-ups are also really good too. But nothing beats diapers, wet or dirty It all feels good. Besides you don't need no big boy underwear. Being a big boy is boring. It's much more fun to be a little boy still in diapers.???? I promise you, just give it time buddy and you won't miss your big boy pants at all!?????❤️?☺️?❤️?❤️???❤️?❤️???

[diaperuser]

There was an essay online about a woman in England who tried to potty train after 16 years in diapers. She tried for one year. In that time she only made it three times to potty. The rest of time she wet and messed her training panties. She gave and went back to diapers.

[oznl]

On 10/16/2021 at 7:01 PM, Kif said:

I've seen how Kali et al have talked about having "not enough continence to be practical"

THAT I can relate to.  I think I'm already there for that.  I worked today (on the road) and I seriously don't know how I could have done that without my nappy.

13 hours ago, diaperuser said:

There was an essay online about a woman in England who tried to potty train after 16 years in diapers. She tried for one year. In that time she only made it three times to potty. The rest of time she wet and messed her training panties. She gave and went back to diapers.

That would be an interesting account if it is genuine.  Is it still out here somewhere?  I've come across some of such accounts but felt that they were contaminated by fantasy or at best, wishful thinking.  This is what makes @Enthusi's recounts interesting as they seem to avoid that trap.

I'd love to know what's a little further down my own road by studying others.

 

[diaperuser]

On 10/18/2021 at 2:35 AM, oznl said:

THAT I can relate to.  I think I'm already there for that.  I worked today (on the road) and I seriously don't know how I could have done that without my nappy.

That would be an interesting account if it is genuine.  Is it still out here somewhere?  I've come across some of such accounts but felt that they were contaminated by fantasy or at best, wishful thinking.  This is what makes @Enthusi's recounts interesting as they seem to avoid that trap.

I'd love to know what's a little further down my own road by studying others.

@oznlit was old compuserve abdl forums. The person  who wrote had interviewed several people. That computer I had stopped working. I lost everything on it.

[Enthusi]

On 10/18/2021 at 3:35 AM, oznl said:

THAT I can relate to.  I think I'm already there for that.  I worked today (on the road) and I seriously don't know how I could have done that without my nappy.

Yeah it took me a while to realize that incontinence is not binary.   I think sometimes we get into the mindset that incontinence is a trophy that is awarded to you when you reach a certain threshold.  

[Kif]

Wow, yeah both of your responses really resonate with me at least! ❤️

I reached a point very shortly after I started untraining, when I was reading my old journal entries and reflecting on them while reading Kali's blog, where I had that psychological realization -- that whether I reach incontinence or not, I need to be in diapers. And, I promised myself that if I ever decided I wanted to stop untraining that I wouldn't hurt myself again and stop using them 24/7. 

I felt quite a bit of peace with that, but yeah I definitely have also felt that end-goal anxiety of wondering when/if I'll reach "incontinence" and pressure for that to be a very specific and narrow definition of it. 

But as you pointed out, there are many degrees and kinds, and they're all gradually reached along the way...I wrote about my feelings of 'doubt' in my untraining thread recently and the gist is I realized those weren't real doubts over if I wanted my body to function a certain way--what it was instead were dominating/overshadowing feelings of social anxiety, feeling like I "had to" be incontinent in the eyes of others to avoid judgement...But, once I realized that fear and eliminated it, I truly realized I did want my body to work a certain way and it so-happened that coincided with moderate degrees of UI and FI.

I still feel a little impatient about when I'll reach what I want, but thinking of it in terms of "diaper dependence" like you described helps quite a lot with that! Because then, it's not about e.g. "I cannot hold it at all" so much as "I can't hold it long enough while getting groceries for being out of diapers/protection to be practical" or even "I don't know how wet I'll be in X time, so I should add a booster, use a better brand, etc"...All of which are still plenty.

[diapereddaddy1922]

Reading through this made me think about my diapered position.... I've been 10 years diapered full time..... I am in the same position you are.... I am very happy with it. Yes sometimes I do get a bit worried that this is permanent and I have no choice anymore but then I snap back and rejoice..... I've wanted to be diaper dependent for most my life and now I am.

[Enthusi]

5 hours ago, diapereddaddy1922 said:

Reading through this made me think about my diapered position.... I've been 10 years diapered full time..... I am in the same position you are.... I am very happy with it. Yes sometimes I do get a bit worried that this is permanent and I have no choice anymore but then I snap back and rejoice..... I've wanted to be diaper dependent for most my life and now I am.

Yeah it’s hard to know for sure just how difficult it would be to retrain.  
 

Speaking for myself it would first require me to have a desire to retrain, which I don’t have.  Plus a huge motivator to retrain (I can’t think of any). Plus I would have to be within a few feet from a bathroom at all times, which means I couldn’t drive or work.  I don’t even know if I could get away with pull-ups. Last few times I tried them I leaked.  So even if it is theoretically possible for me to retrain it’s not going to happen any time soon. 

[diapereddaddy1922]

Exactly..... I forgot to take spare diapers to work last night..... let's just say half the night was miserable.... damp pants rushing to the bathroom and the constant fear of impending doom was casting a cloud over my head