Strange days indeed - a 24 x 7 experiment

[Little Sherri]

On 12/24/2021 at 7:17 AM, oznl said:

and considering (reluctantly) the possible necessity for a black onesie to be worn under my outerwear to deal with the inevitability of lifting equipment in company.

Congrats on the job, @oznl, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year's as well. I love my black onesies; they have made a huge difference in my ability to wear diapers in company. While I mostly work from home these days, I get involved with a lot of side projects with buddies, laying flooring or hanging TV's or fixing cars, things like that, where I find myself stooped over or crawling around on the floor, and I never have any concerns about waistline reveals. They help prevent sagging, as well. 

Is your new gig mostly in-office, or will you be able to work from home? 

[oznl]

2 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

Is your new gig mostly in-office, or will you be able to work from home? 

Thanks for the congrats and no.  It's a completely different job that I obtained only due to ancient field tech work experience and a track record of dealing with people in stressful situations.  I won't be working from home at all for this role but it's part time (which suits me).  It will probably be either 3 or 4 days per week.

I'll be working in a combination of a light workshop and on the road (in a van of all things) in a tech equipment support role for disabled person equipment.   I anticipate loading and unloading light disabled electrical equipment in and out of said van.

[oznl]

It’s New Year’s Eve.  Good riddance to 2021 I say.  The second consecutive year of my life turned upside down and mauled by a pandemic.  A year of lockdowns, cancellations, isolations and disappointments.  A year of a pandemic-ended lifelong career replaced by horrifically badly paid and insecure “gig economy” employment.  A year that was far, far worse for millions of other people so I’m not going to whine any more about it.

As this year gasps its last I note that I’ve been “24/7” for more than three of them now, that milestone having been crossed just after Boxing day: just shy of 1100 days and nights in nappies, around 1,000 of them consecutively.  Tomorrow I’ll wake up to my fourth consecutive new year’s day in a wet nappy.

For a laugh, I looked back 3 years to see what I was up to, re-reading my own posts from December 2018 in a kind of internet-enabled time travel.   I found a stumbling chocolate wheel of leaks, self-consciousness, doubts and hard lessons on how to do boring domestic things in nappies, all of this washed against a cliff-face of constant, carping spousal disapproval.  Forgetting stuff is under-rated.  Perhaps we should forget more.

Mind you, stumbling about is usually something I only notice in retrospect.   I’ve come to realise that yesterday’s stumbling about was in fact what seemed like a good idea yesterday.  It may well be that I revisit this chapter in years to come and wonder how it was that I could be so self-deluded.

Still, there’s only one chronicle of this story and this is it.  I try to keep it as accurate and as true as I dare and avoid revisionism which possibly explains its general confusion and continuity issues.  Perhaps this is why it rates far lower than a good ABDL fantasy.

I write things that I end up not posting.  If you’re reading this, this wasn’t one of those.   It usually happens because on review, I consider the topic to be either excessively self-indulgent, too afflicted with conformational bias (a perennial risk for this topic that I’ve only partially avoided) or it contains enough (too much) specific detail, potentially identifying people who would not consent to be identified.  These “failed posts” tend to get purged from the core document that holds this thread on my own systems but not all of them do.  Perhaps one day I’ll find some and feel able to issue an “out-takes and bloopers” update.

Anyway, looking back three years ago I see a number of things that I don’t miss at all: Tena Maxi, wet legs in a shopping mall (possibly related to Tena Maxi), middle-of-the-day, necessity-driven nappy changes, constant leaks and the spousal fights would rank high.

The big thing that I STILL want, three years later, is to live in nappies. 

A thing that IS different this year is an awareness of a growing “gravitational force” that is serving to perpetuate my use of nappies irrespective of the my day to day emotional vagaries.

The biggest component of this is most likely the emergence of clear signs of “dependency”. 

I’ve “nappy trained” myself at night: regularly wetting myself whilst asleep.  I learned through experimentation that if I skip the nappy, I will simply wet the bed instead.  As I’m wet to some extent upon going to bed, I have a real issue with lack of insight into how often or much this happens but I’m starting to suspect it’s a LOT now.  There are still nights where I can recall one or more waking-to-urinate events but then again but it’s clearly not the all of it.  It may be hardly any of it.

Regardless if it happens 2, 3 or 7 nights per week, for the first time, coming OUT of nappies is now not as simple as just making a decision to do so.   I imagine it would take a certain amount of time (and laundry) to recover being dry at night and I’d need to research a strategy to do so. 

So at night, I now have legitimate physiological cause to wear nappies (albeit a self-inflicted one): a powerful gravitational force.  Even if I decided to pack it in tomorrow, I’m still going to need night nappies.

During the day I still believe I am in control and I evidence from only five months ago shows that I can still come out of nappies for at least short periods of time.  This only happens rarely though (once or twice a year) and never for more than an hour or two.  I’m not really sure what would happen if I tried for say a whole day, or a week.  A risk I anticipate is that wetting my pants has become so reflexive that at some point after discarding my day-nappies, perhaps after the novelty of NOT being in a them wore off, I’d “forget” that I wasn’t wearing in one and disaster would strike.

Putting aside choice and forgetfulness, there is the question of practicality for my daytime nappies now.  I am dimly aware that I couldn’t practically perform my gig employment without them:  I work on the road and there are no breaks. 

Beyond the lack of toilet opportunity, sometimes there is so little thought before “using” my nappy that I wonder if I thought at all.  I’m aware now that similarly. I’d most likely been bedwetting off and on for months before I proved it to myself.  I cannot therefore refute the possibility that I’m already incontinent during the day but haven’t worked it out for myself yet.

So even more gravitational pull towards nappies fuelled not so much physiologically as by my own doubts of continence in tandem with the logistical convenience nappies provide in the face of my self-inflicted deterioration in bladder capacity.

Lastly I’ve also noticed a third horseman in this padded gravity apocalypse: a kind of psychological “lock-in”.

It seems the longer I remain in nappies, the more invested I become in them and the more anxiety-inducing the thought of leaving them becomes.  At this point for some reason, the thought of coming out of nappies seems not only difficult (due to the aforementioned emerging dependencies) but more interestingly, mentally dreadful:  I’d hate to do it and the thought of doing it makes me anxious and depressed.  The longer I go, the bigger this mental “stickiness” to remain in nappies seems to get.  Leaving them now would somehow feel like I had discarded three years of effort for a no outcome and concreted in a kind of nihilistic null hypothesis.

To be honest with myself, I’m even a bit reluctant to even test myself with respect to continence.  I’m not sure if this is because I don’t want to “undo” what I have done by using those systems or if I’m scared of finding the answer.  So I probably won’t do that any time soon.

There are storm clouds on the horizon though:  I honestly didn’t think this nappy thing would last as long as it has back in 2018.  There are a few life challenges that I’d tacitly resolved with myself not to undertake in in nappies that are likely to occur at a phase where my nappies are no longer completely optional but not officially medically necessary.

Anyway, back to the “now”.

I will not be staying up until midnight.  I will not drink champagne.  2021 doesn’t deserve it.  I WILL drown a Mermaid.  I don’t really know what else to do with them since they’re not good for 24 hours and I have 9 lift.  Since there will be a few beers and hopefully a lie-in the next morning, perhaps they’ll prove better measure than the BetterDry for extra overnight weather.

There will be better years. I don’t yet know if 2022 will be better but I suspect it will bring more strange days. 

Nappy new year…

[oznl]

2021 is dead.  I dance on its grave.  I outlived it...

[Newbee]

9 hours ago, oznl said:

2021 is dead.  I dance on its grave.  I outlived it...

Thank goodness 2021 is dead.what a bad year it was and for me it had nothing to with Covid 

[oznl]

2 hours ago, Newbee said:

Thank goodness 2021 is dead.what a bad year it was and for me it had nothing to with Covid 

Here's hoping that 2022 is better for all of us.  I hope you are well!

[oznl]

Mermaids: a success story at last!

A Mermaid update since I spent my 1000th continuously-nappied night (and the last night of the forgettable year that was 2021) in one.

I honestly think I’ve done the Mermaids something of a dis-service by unilaterally theorising that they should be capable of withstanding a 24 hour tour of duty and then summarily dismissing them when they didn’t.  They have their use case and I have found it.

I’d spent the day in an increasingly saggy Abena L4 + booster.  Comfortable, but wearing them for an entire day really is pushing them to their limits.  Gravity, stretching, all-too-easily-removable tapes and curiously-porous cloth backing can all conspire to make Abena-based underwear a dangerously-damp place towards the end of even an easy day (for a nappy).  This day had not been an easy one.  I’d spent the afternoon in the house on my own cleaning.  I was not only pee-wet but close to leaking and very sweaty.  It was only 5pm but I wanted a change and a shower and I wanted it NOW.

The problem was that as it was New Year’s Eve, there would be alcohol (a fair bit of it) along with a lie-in the next morning.  5pm until 9am with beer is a lot, even for a BetterDry.  Cloth was out of the question, persistently monsoonal weather having made line drying difficult and laundering cloth nappies with a beloved stuck at home with nothing to do due to forced Christmas leave and COVID shutdowns would likely provoke protracted sessions of Olympian-level eye rolling and sighing.

Cue the Mermaids…  I decided to give Meilani and Sam another gig, taping myself in to their capacious embrace and concealing/stuffing excess pastel-hued plastic that poked out over my plastic pants as best as I could.

It was a pleasant evening featuring champagne, beer and wine that finished well before midnight because 2021 wasn’t a year that deserved any kind of celebratory effort.

I’ve no idea how wet I was when I went to bed because I hadn’t been thinking much about it at all.  I’m pretty sure my bladder remained set to “automatic” overnight.  I found that I’d done a pretty good job wetting them when I eventually woke empty-bladdered to that characteristic “sitting on a wet plushie” Mermaid sensation around 6am before dozing off again.  Later I re-woke on my side and let whatever was in me drain into the Mermaid.  I’m pleased to report that despite already being well-wet, it comfortably coped with a modest side-pee without leakage and I dozed a little more.

A couple of cups of coffee later sitting in bed, in my “drip and dribble” zone and still the Mermaids remained perfectly dry on the outside.

I arose at 9am, 16 hours after changing into it.

Removing my lined plastic pants, it was very swollen and hung pendulously between my legs but the iron grip tapes held and I could walk comfortably in it.  It was warm, wet and comfortable in a kind of “wearing a bag of warm gelatine in your underwear” kind of fashion.

To be honest, I would have kept it on for longer but walking around in giant, pee-soaked toddler-nappy wasn’t an aesthetic that was going to fly domestically.  With my beloved finding her usual excuse to bail from the bedroom to avoid seeing me change myself, reluctantly I changed.

As with previous Mermaid adventures, I noticed a slight slippery sliminess on my skin where it was wettest (“ground zero” in my nappy zone).  I think it’s something to do with the surfeit of polymers the Mermaids have to give them their 7 litre capacity claim.  They “leak” out on the inside, directly where I pee into it.  It’s not at all uncomfortable slippery-wet though in a kind of “mud between your toes” way and as I routinely rinse my nappy area in the shower at change time, no residue remained.

So, that’s the ideal use-case for a Mermaid.  For me, not a 24 hour proposition due to inevitable press-out leaks whilst seated.  They WILL however cheerfully manage an extended and heavy evening/night shift and then chuck in a few hours overtime without leakage or discomfort. 16 hours later, impressively swollen and bulky on the outside, warm, slimy-wet on the inside, dry bed and dry pyjamas, win…

I WISH I could afford to use them more often and I wish they came in a less beloved-offensive décor.

[Little Sherri]

On 12/31/2021 at 7:26 AM, oznl said:

The big thing that I STILL want, three years later, is to live in nappies. 

Happy New Year, @oznl. This is the big thing for me as well; I still want to live in nappies. My post-Christmas golf adventure got squashed by the pandemic (of course), as did ALL our Christmas plans, and now the kids are going to be doing school from home for at least the next two weeks. I have a booster scheduled in a week. I'd have had it already, but, we got exposed to Covid, so we were prohibited from taking care of such errands. That, and golfing in the Southern US. 

However, my point is, I had purchased a case of my Prevail gym diapers in size large (the ones I wear to the gym are medium), and was planning to go South and play golf and share rooms with my buddies and wear diapers the whole time, and if it ended up as a topic of conversation, then so be it. I've been granted a reprieve, and we are tentatively scheduled to do it in April, instead. I'm sure I'll have another buildup of anxiety about it as the departure date approaches, assuming the Certain Death variant hasn't caused a worldwide, moratorium on travel, and we all now have to turn to Metaverse Airlines to virtually walk on the sand. But, I intend to go through with it. Just as I intend to get through another year wearing diapers all the time, everywhere. 

Thanks for another entertaining year of your thoughts, adventures and observations! 

[oznl]

5 hours ago, Little Sherri said:

 My post-Christmas golf adventure got squashed by the pandemic (of course), as did ALL our Christmas plans, and now the kids are going to be doing school from home for at least the next two weeks. I have a booster scheduled in a week. I'd have had it already, but, we got exposed to Covid, so we were prohibited from taking care of such errands. That, and golfing in the Southern US.

Yeah, it's the same here.  We're all stuck at home.  Can't go anywhere, not sure we really WANT to go anywhere.  It's hot.  I'm not sure if that makes things better or worse but happy-ish new year!!

So, ANOTHER update (as much for my entertainment as anybody else's)!

 

Traveling at the speed of beer…

Our second consecutive Christmas holiday period has, like so much of the world’s, again been comprehensively trashed by COVID.  Again, we are stuck at home with nothing to do, nowhere we can go (unless you fancy spending 9 hours in a queue in order NOT to get a COVID test) whilst being bombarded by a plague of televised epidemiologists prophesising doom.

No wonder there are so many updates on this thread lately.  I’ve got nothing else to do.  I could finish painting the outside of the house but I live in Queensland, it’s January and I wear nappies so enough said.  I’m hot enough already.

I’ve been thinking about a curious chronological disassociation I’ve seen more than once between large-ish drinking sessions and subsequently-soaked.  A big day on the sauce triggers nappy-based tsunamis but curiously enough, not immediately but sometime later.

To wit.  The other day was a tough day to be my liver:  A BBQ with a handful of relatives prepared to ignore Government exhortations to remain at home and avoid Christmas or New Year’s parties occurred at my place.  I wasn’t worried.  It was a small number of close family members, all of whom were fully vaccinated anyway.  A lunchtime event, it involved a series of pleasant, cold, citrus-hoppy pale ales.

After they left in the late afternoon, a neighbour texted to see who was up for a drink on HIS deck (a microbiologist by trade, I figure if he thinks it’s ok, it probably is).  And so lunchtime segued into dinnertime, I turned up the hops, collected some left-over cheese platter and relocated with a series of even hoppier but very nice IPA beers.

It was hot (of course).  I’d been hot all day (driving the BBQ hadn’t helped).  Perhaps as a consequence of this, I noticed that my Abena L4 had held up exceptionally well despite near-constant fermented lubrication.  My night nappy that night held up well too.  It wasn’t a great night’s sleep though.  I fell asleep quickly enough but woke up at 2am strangely dry.  I had to deliberately wet myself and even then, it took hours to fall back asleep.  The next day’s Abena L4 was again, moderately effective.

At about 6pm (after a quick dip in the pool) that next day, I changed into a Mermaid (working my way through the pack).  A beer and a glass of wine or two before bed but nothing serious: practically teetotal in comparison with the previous day.

Sometime overnight, the previous day caught up with me.

I woke at 4am.  I was wet.   REALLY wet.  I could also faintly smell pee which is a red flag if I’m in bed in a disposable.  Rummaging around under the covers as best as I could, I was dismayed to find that I was indeed lying in a slightly damp patch of bed.   No pee dream, not a thing to recall but clearly a great deal of pee had happened.

As a side note:  this REALLY is a thing about teaching yourself to wet the bed.  It’s all very well but at some point, you’re going to pee on or in something you wouldn’t have done had you been awake and you’ll have no idea you’re doing it and will therefore do nothing to mitigate any damage when it occurs.

It’s kind of hard to survey and develop a management strategy for a bedwetting situation at 4am when you are lying next to a nappy-hostile spouse.  I did the best I could.  It wasn’t helped by the fact that any kind of exploratory probing of the Mermaid produced a plastic potato-chip-packet crinkling noise that could be heard from outer space, let alone inside a darkened bedroom where only the faint hum of the AC unit counterpointed the silence.  Root cause analysis in the dark suggested that my terries were doomed due to overwhelming volumes of pee delivered most likely whilst asleep on my side however the top of my Mermaid (being an XL) was protruding ABOVE the elastic waist of my terry-lined plastic pants at my stomach and had allowed some pee to bypass my terry-towelling insurance policy pants and reach my bed sheets over my hips.  

It was hot:  I was wearing a Homer Simpson t-shirt, a very nappy under voluminous, white terry-lined plastic pants (also pee-wet) and nothing else (send your suggested answer as to “Why does Mrs Oznl not fancy Oznl in bed anymore” to PO box P33 in your capital city of choice).

The terries being soaked already, I just I stuffed the top of my Mermaid back south of their elastic waist as best as I could, leaving them to their soggy fate and tried to lie on my drier hip, hoping that the AC would dry out the wet lycra and the bottom sheet a bit before morning.

Eventually, I dozed back off to sleep to jumbled, weird dreams.  Some of the dreams involved peeing and I’m pretty sure I wet myself again during some of these.  I was on my side but the terries were already a write-off but had absorbency to cope so I didn’t wake up enough to care.

By morning, our bedroom AC had done it’s de-humidifying thing.  The damp patch below me on the sheet had indeed, all but disappeared and even the lycra on my waterproofs was at best only slightly moist.   The interior however was soaked.  I felt like I was in a wet cloth nappy and not a disposable one.

When I got up to make the morning coffee, I could tell by serious weight and bulk that I was seriously wet.  When I returned with coffee and sat down in bed, it was like sitting on a  soaked sponge and I could feel pee seeping out of my Mermaid into my terries at leggings.

I had to weigh that Mermaid after changing, for science.  At 2.63kg, it was carrying almost 2.3 litres of pee!!  There was more pee than that however, that pee was in my terry trainers and on my sheet.

Where did this all come from?  That’s more than I produce in 24 hours normally!  I hadn’t even drunk 2.3 litres of fluid since my last nappy change.  It HAD to be from the day before.

I’ve seen this before: a strange time-delay effect between a drinking session and enhanced nappy-humidity that can be 24 hours or more.  It appears to be exacerbated by drinking in hot weather.  It’s almost as though my body is reluctant to say good bye to available fluids.

That, or there is a “speed of beer”.  It takes a certain amount of time for beer to traverse the distance between my mouth and bladder: a trip that I estimate to be about 90cm took upon observation about 30 hours to travel. This calculates to 0.000003 kilometres per hour.

But for science, we need proof.  It’s ok.  I’ve got that nailed too.

Planet Earth’s escape velocity is 11.2 kilometres per second, or roughly 40,320 kilometres per hour. 

Beer has NEVER been observed in low earth orbit and this proves my point.  At 0.000003 kilometres per hour, beer moves FAR too slowly to escape the planetary gravitational field.

Quod erat Demonstrandum.

[oznl]

I’m going a bit mad (well, madder) this week.  Nearby Cyclone Seth has left us with stifling humidity, grey skies, oppressive heat, wind but no real rain to speak of (that would at least cool the air).  The entire city is in panic-mode with COVID everywhere, stripped supermarket shelves, cancelled events whilst family and friends around us are, for the first time in this pandemic, contracting COVID at velocity.  This is the pointy end of “learning to live” with the virus delivered with a side-serving of ruined holidays and an ex-cyclone. 

Forced-and-unpaid downtime sees me sitting here in my study, sweating into my nappy and off all things, wrestling with the preparation of my next tax return.  I think I’d rather have COVID.

I’ve put on weight over Christmas (because it’s too hot to move even if there was somewhere we could move to) and my strategy of drinking every night to deal with insomnia is working about as well as any medical practitioner would tell you it was going to.  I’d actually ordered melatonin from the USA (the nanny-state controls in Australia make the melatonin you can buy locally highly restricted in quantity, weak to the point of useless and hideously expensive) but of course, the shipment is stuck in an Australian mail sorting facility that’s also paralysed by COVID.

So, thusly morose, my mind decides to throw some more negativity onto the emotional bonfire.  Let’s get back “on topic”.

Chronologically, I “went 24/7” a little more than three years ago.  It was December 27th 2018 when I put on a nappy for the first time since toddlerhood with no specific sunset-clause in mind.  This was after a rapid escalation in nappy-time through December involving a series of multi-day sessions and some experimental nappy-clad interstate business trips.

There was a break for a couple of weeks however in March 2019 (USA trip) but I went back into nappies at the start of April 2019 at LAX airport for the flight home and have been in nappies ever since.

If you do the math, that’s about a three year sentence served by now but only about 34 months continuously.  Nevertheless, that’s a fair bit of time.  .  I think that makes me more than a dilettante at this point but others may beg to differ (opinions are welcome).

I’ve learned a lot of things on this experiment and possibly one of the BIGGEST things I’ve learned about myself is that I don’t particularly want to be continent anymore. 

I want to go “pro” so to speak.

Why in the @#$%-ity @#$% is this not happening then?

For sure, there’s been SOME shift here.  The big milestone is that I wet the bed sometimes now: something I hadn’t done since I was 2 years old so I broke a fifty-something year dry spell there.  It’s an unreliable kind of bed wetting, not every night, but enough that I dare not go to bed without a nappy on.  I’m still at times slightly incredulous about it myself but the morning evidence however is as incontrovertible as it is wet.

In my way of thinking, that’s not incontinence though.  It’s a kind of “nappy training”.  During the daytime, when I’m awake, there’s really not THAT much evidence of “progress”, or “regress” depending on your point of view.

Although it’s now desperately easy for me to wet my pants: whenever and wherever, I couldn’t really say that it is happening outside of my control.

For sure, I haven’t done any battle testing lately and and there are numerous hints here and there that things aren’t what they used to be.  I suspect I’d struggle to hold off peeing for long and once I start peeing, like opening a good packet of roasted nuts, I just can’t stop.  The thing is though is that I am STILL “deciding” (albeit with little thought sometimes) to wet during the day and more importantly, I think omitting making those decisions will default me to dry nappies. 

I STILL frequently find that I’ve been “holding” unconsciously.  These days, the “dropping” sensation in my pelvic floor is very obvious to me when I have relaxed.  I find the consequential sense of lightness to be quite pleasant although the odd co-incidental bladder spasm can be annoying.  Pee episodes no longer seem to stop so much as to dissipate into dripping for a bit and somehow fading away.  The “clench” reflex is a distant memory.

The issue is that this relaxed state doesn’t seem to last.    I repeatedly find 10-15 minutes later that at some point, I reflexively revert to “closed tap” down there.  I have to consciously choose to relax again in order to re-establish the drip/dribble mode.  To be fair, that “closed tap” never remains long enough to see any pee urges developing.  I’ll always wet a tiny amount at least every 15 minutes or so but it’s hard for me to see how things could progress much further in view of this stubborn habit.

Sure, there are times where I suspect I’ve managed to get things going on “automatic” down there but I’m not 100% certain and it doesn’t persist.

I seem to be stuck at this half-baked phase: continent but inconveniently small-bladdered during the day, no longer dry at night.  Too continent to achieve a diagnosis and refuge, too incontinent to operate safely without nappies and/or embarrassment.

I wonder how long I have to spend on this latest “plateau” or if indeed it is a plateau and not an indefinite stasis?

PS:  As I sit here typing this in my study-sauna, a faint whiff of pee emanating up from my sweaty-damp Abena and plastic pants (beloved home and lousy weather inhibits nappy-gear washing opportunities), a Christmas thought to the unidentified neighbour who bought their precious little pre-school daughter a Karaoke machine for Christmas: a special place in hell is reserved for you…

[sparklezBear]

13 minutes ago, oznl said:

Why in the @#$%-ity @#$% is this not happening then?

From my very limited experience, a bulk of *going pro* appears to be psychological. Notwithstanding the bedwetting and urge incontinence you've already achieved.

This is something I've struggled with too, particularly the identity of being incontinent when there's such a big difference between being physically incontinent (eg from nerve damage) and being nappy trained and experiencing urge or functional incontinence. They are distinctly different things, and for the latter, there's usually some degree of control. And that is I suspect the root of this little issue, this partial element of control that we have, but do not want. I certainly count myself in this, although I do enjoy a level of incontinence too.

In considering this, we should also keep in mind the effect of our respective situations. While some element of control may exist, the result over a day is the same. I propose that without nappies, we will wet our pants, bed and anything else we care to sit on.

With all of that said, and while still on the journey myself, I suggest that the key to more profound un-training (and therefore incontinence) is to embrace the life fully, no holds barred.

I've attempted to do just this, through telling all of my friends about nappies, ABDL. I've also told my doctor, and now have incontinence listed on my medical record. Everywhere I go, I do so in a nappy, irrespective of any difficulty involved. I've stopped using the potty entirely unless absolutely necessary (read: #2 at work). I can't see any way in which I can be outwardly more committed.

It's this radical acceptance and embrace that I attribute my success so far.

[Newbee]

From someone who is medically incontinent I must say that even though most mornings I do wake up with a wet nappy I do have the odd morning where I wake up dry(but don’t stay that way for long) in fact  it was only a few days ago where I woke up dry and I was very happy about that I wish it happened more often but sadly I wake wet more than I wake up dry. So I’m guessing and this is just my 2 cents worth that for someone who has decided to wear nappies all the time and try and loose control of there bladder that person would not always wet their nappy every night.so to me there is nothing to stress over if you wake up dry or wet your body will do what it wants to do. 

[BabyJilly_S]

It was a strange realisation for me too that after starting wearing, loving not getting up overnight, then going 24/7 the thought came into my head that that alone was not enough. I didn't want control anymore.

For me it also goes hand in hand with my AB side. After a lifetime of putting on the manly in control front it's a blessed relief sometimes to slip into that space.   

Of course a lifetime of worrying about how much I drink because I am cursed with a bladder the size of a walnut and have a chronic issue peeing alongside people (I love concerts but they are a nightmare) simply adds fuel to this fire.

Oh and I do envy you, haunted as I am by the curse of the clench still  God I hate it...

 

[WBxx]

To your un-training progress, in my limited experience kids that aren’t potty trained don’t continually drip.  They periodically release small amounts.  Take away their nappy/diaper they wet themselves.  So you have the urinary control of a two year old … that’s not bad.

As a tennis player I have to ask, what is your thinking/perspective on the Djokovic situation?

[Newbee]

5 hours ago, WBxx said:

To your un-training progress, in my limited experience kids that aren’t potty trained don’t continually drip.  They periodically release small amounts.  Take away their nappy/diaper they wet themselves.  So you have the urinary control of a two year old … that’s not bad.

As a tennis player I have to ask, what is your thinking/perspective on the Djokovic situation?

If he hasn’t got the right paper work then yes he should be deported but if it turns out he does have right paper work then let him stay just because he is a famous tennis star he shouldn’t be treated any differently than you or me

[oznl]

8 hours ago, WBxx said:

As a tennis player I have to ask, what is your thinking/perspective on the Djokovic situation?

This is a multi-faceted issue.

For background, the Australian population has been severely locked down by the Government for a very long time with international inbound and outbound travel effectively prohibited for the general population.  This has led to heartbreaking situations and made many Australian citizens effectively refugees abroad as they have been prohibited from returning home.  Consequentially, when they see travel exemptions granted for rich and famous, there’s a fair degree of antipathy about it.  This, conflated with the whole anti-vax zeitgeist from this individual has led to most of the community being fairly dark about him being granted permission to come here but with big sport, money talks.

Having said that, he WAS granted a visa but when he presented at the border, it seems that some aspect of this was found not to be satisfactory and it was cancelled.  Early clues are that some assertions made to obtain that visa may not have been valid.  Further complicating things, it seems that the Australian Tennis organisation might have gotten a bit optimistic with their player advice on what defines a vax exemption but this will all come out in court I expect.

I expect the court will sort it out and if it turns out that a politician was playing cheap shots for electoral brownie points in triggering this, a price will be paid by that polly.  If it turns out that if the tennis player did fudge the facts on a visa application, he’ll be going home on a plane early next week.

It’s pretty messy.  I don’t like the games the guy has played but he is entitled to procedural fairness.  Getting to this point at the wrong end of a 14 hour flight to Melbourne Airport tells me that this situation may not have been handled very well by our authorities.  We'll learn some more next week when court sits: courts here won't take any political BS into account and will call it how they see it.

8 hours ago, WBxx said:

To your un-training progress, in my limited experience kids that aren’t potty trained don’t continually drip.  They periodically release small amounts.  Take away their nappy/diaper they wet themselves.  So you have the urinary control of a two year old … that’s not bad.

I might have to try that during the day although I suspect I would NOT wet myself unless I permitted it to happen.  A different story at night though where I know I will wet in my sleep whether I want to or not.

[Little Sherri]

I wonder if we're going about this all wrong? I mean, you and I both pretty much greet the day with empty bladders, and then we start emptying them again 15 - 30 minutes later, and continue doing so all day. I definitely have not "achieved" any kind of daytime (and barely any nighttime) urinary incontinence, other than an inability to stop a voiding event, once it kicks off. But we have to kick it off. I didn't set out to "untrain", but, at 2.75 years wearing only nappies, all the time, everywhere, it would be nice not to have to manage every event. I'm not sure if I want to actually walk away from all control, and I'm cognizant of how absurd this might sound to someone who had their continence stripped away through no fault of their own, but, I have daydreamed about how great it might be to just be able to turn off control for a few hours. 

I just had a thought, and maybe it's the IPA talking here, but, I'm jumping off from the earlier comment from @WBxx about how things work with kids who aren't potty trained: the way it works with babies is, they don't continually drip all the time, as one might if one played with stents, for example. Rather, their bladders fill to a certain trigger point, probably around 50% - 70% of capacity, and that triggers an involuntary contraction that empties the bladder down to the 15 or 20% point again. Becoming "potty trained" involves recognizing the signals that used to prompt involuntary voiding incidents, and deliberately voiding instead (ideally into the loo), and then, becoming able to resist the involuntary voiding, when it's not convenient, until you reach capacity and beyond (such as when you're in an Uber returning from a bar in traffic) That, and becoming able to make water on command, and force out some of that last few percent of reserve capacity, to extend range. Once you can do all that - hold it, push it, empty almost completely, and make deals with whatever deity you worship whilst not wetting your pants at 99.9% of capacity, you are potty trained. 

What about another approach? What about not going, not paying attention to going, steadfastly refusing to go, while your bladder fills, and fills... if you were, say, comatose, or, on copious quantities of psychedelics, and trapped in that Uber at 99.9%.... what would happen when you hit 100%? You'd pee in your diaper. Would it make sense to manage it that way? Let the body take over, because you refuse to do it consciously? 

It would be uncomfortable, for sure, at first, and we'd probably flood some diapers out, but... would the automated systems step in? As they did when we were figuring out what our fingers were for, and object permanence, and the like? 

[oznl]

21 hours ago, sparklezBear said:

It's this radical acceptance and embrace that I attribute my success so far.

Yes.  You've (rightly) called me out before on pulling my punches with the whole incontinence thing.  I wonder if there is a psychological dimension to this.

1 hour ago, Little Sherri said:

What about another approach? What about not going, not paying attention to going, steadfastly refusing to go, while your bladder fills, and fills... if you were, say, comatose, or, on copious quantities of psychedelics, and trapped in that Uber at 99.9%.... what would happen when you hit 100%? You'd pee in your diaper. Would it make sense to manage it that way? Let the body take over, because you refuse to do it consciously? 

It would be uncomfortable, for sure, at first, and we'd probably flood some diapers out, but... would the automated systems step in? As they did when we were figuring out what our fingers were for, and object permanence, and the like? 

Funnily enough I tried that this morning.  I changed out of my night nappy around 9am and then decided not to "decide" to use my day nappy for a while to see what happened.  I was completely empty and probably slightly dehydrated (slept under the AC again).

I HATE doing this.  I worry about exercise episodes such as this regressing lots of development.  Ideally, I'd have tried this wearing no nappy at all (thus imposing a higher cost of failure) but other family members at home would have made this awkward.

It was an unsurprising experiment in many ways.  The only things that were different from pre-nappies in terms of urinary holding were that:

1.       There were a couple of unauthorised micro-voids that occurred despite no obvious signs of urgency about 90 minutes into the hold.  I felt myself leak tiny amounts (drips) a couple of times  with pretty low or no urge but it didn't really progress anywhere.  This happened a couple of times.  I wasn't sure so I stood up and had a rummage around in my pants to find sure enough, I was a tiny bit wet.  It was what marketeers would call "light bladder leakage" and if I'd ever given birth to a baby, probably be par for the course.

2.       At around the three hour mark, I started to get a few strong urges along with more drips.  At about 3 hours and 15 minutes I simply started wetting my nappy uncontrollably sitting at my desk. I realised at this point that the game was over and so made no effort to stop.

3.       The quantity that I actually “went” was not much at all (probably due to dehydration)

4.       A minute or two later I had a massive bladder spasm and peed some more in my nappy

5.       A series of minor post-void voids occurred over the next few minutes.  It looks like that the "incontinence" episode didn't really empty my bladder and it finished in installments at its own pace.

So, what would have happened if I was NOT wearing a nappy?

I suspect I would have leaked a few drops into my underwear but dropped whatever I was doing and found a toilet to void in before I substantially wet my pants.

It would have been awkward because I was on hold to a hideous off-shore call centre for most of those three hours.  I'm not sure I could have managed a toilet break without losing my place in the call queue anyway.  Perhaps I need a nappy to deal with Bank of America these days?

That after three years: a bit of urgency and some dripping if I ignore the call followed by an episode of incontinence that was really a function of unmanageable urgency (albeit urgency without just cause).  I probably have a bit of OAB as well as incomplete voiding and secondary-onset adult enuresis.  It's not the fantasy stuff you read about...

19 hours ago, Newbee said:

From someone who is medically incontinent I must say that even though most mornings I do wake up with a wet nappy I do have the odd morning where I wake up dry(but don’t stay that way for long) in fact  it was only a few days ago where I woke up dry and I was very happy about that I wish it happened more often but sadly I wake wet more than I wake up dry. So I’m guessing and this is just my 2 cents worth that for someone who has decided to wear nappies all the time and try and loose control of there bladder that person would not always wet their nappy every night.so to me there is nothing to stress over if you wake up dry or wet your body will do what it wants to do. 

My bed wetting is probably my strong suit here.  On the one hand I'll tell you that I've hit a "drought" for days at a time and on the other, I'll notice that my BetterDry has been thoroughly used pretty much every morning regardless and often with no clear memory of doing so.  I believe I am rapidly losing insight into when I am bed wetting now.

It's the daytime stuff that I thought I'd see more progress with.

[Stroller]

On 1/7/2022 at 7:59 AM, oznl said:

 

I want to go “pro” so to speak.

Why in the @#$%-ity @#$% is this not happening then?

I really don't know, but I can't help but think you're worrying too much about it, & over-thinking.  I took what seems to me a simpler approach.  I made the decision to wear full-time on a permanent basis, worked out how to relax my sphincter muscles full-time (i.e. reverse Kegel I suppose), then stopped worrying about it.  These days during the day I wet periodically, without thinking about it.  I don't need to do anything to make this happen, and it no longer occurs to me to try to stop the flow starting or to try to stop it.  I don't worry about how often I wet, or how much I wet - I just keep track of how wet my nappy is so I change at the right time.  At night I still wake to wet, but these days the flow starts without warning and before I have any conscious indication I need to wet. 

Actually last night I may have wet in my sleep for the first time.  I vaguely remember half-waking & thinking it was probably because I needed to wet, then the next thing I remember was waking from what may have been my first wetting dream, no longer needing to wet.  Can't be sure though, and I won't be worrying about it much.  The dream had me in some sort of communal changing room down to my cloth nappy, with others noticing, then cut to a desperate search for a toilet with a lock on the door so I could change - which was unsuccessful. I ended up in one with no lock on the door, trying to wet into the toilet & spraying everywhere due to not being used to it, then someone walking in on me.  That was the cue to wake up.

[oznl]

3 hours ago, Stroller said:

I really don't know, but I can't help but think you're worrying too much about it, & over-thinking. 

I think you are right.  A perennial risk with IT folk, most of us on-the-spectrum to some extent ?

3 hours ago, Stroller said:

Actually last night I may have wet in my sleep for the first time.  I vaguely remember half-waking & thinking it was probably because I needed to wet, then the next thing I remember was waking from what may have been my first wetting dream, no longer needing to wet.  Can't be sure though, and I won't be worrying about it much.  The dream had me in some sort of communal changing room down to my cloth nappy, with others noticing, then cut to a desperate search for a toilet with a lock on the door so I could change - which was unsuccessful. I ended up in one with no lock on the door, trying to wet into the toilet & spraying everywhere due to not being used to it, then someone walking in on me.  That was the cue to wake up.

Hah!  Now my turn to advise YOU!  You probably wet the bed.  Those confusing, incoherent pee dreams followed by waking/intending to wet/falling back asleep/ waking again with suspiciously-empty bladders and suspiciously-wet nappies were EXACTLY how it started for me.  Congratulations!

If you're like me, you'll over-think it for weeks and it won't happen again and then, when you forget to over-think it, it WILL happen again, and again, and again, each time with a little less interval since the last.

Then you'll get to my present state where 5 mornings out of 7, I've no idea what happened or when and for the other 2, well I might just be deluding myself.

 

[WBxx]

My situation, seven plus years ago hoping to relive childhood bedwetting I began to wear and use a diaper every night without fail.  It wasn’t long before I occasionally woke wet with no memory of going during the night.  Over the years (daily log) sleep wetting has slowly increased to where it’s now roughly nine out of ten nights.

Now, not sure if it’s a side effect of nightly diaper and regular bedwetting, but over the seven years my void volume has noticeably decreased with frequency increasing.  For anyone wondering, I periodically see an urologist who notes a slightly enlarged prostrate with no sign of cancer.

Anyway, my daytime urinary control has become somewhat of an issue to the point I wet (regrettably) my pants twice last year.  As in my youth, in both cases I ignored the signals till it was too late.  First was at home working outside when suddenly the urge became intense and I simply couldn’t get to a bathroom in time.  Second was driving home from an outing where despite the growing urge I thought I could make it home.

Point being, you folks that wear around the clock who are convinced you still have daytime control might find otherwise if you were to go without for more than a few hours.

[Stroller]

19 hours ago, oznl said:

Hah!  Now my turn to advise YOU!  You probably wet the bed.  Those confusing, incoherent pee dreams followed by waking/intending to wet/falling back asleep/ waking again with suspiciously-empty bladders and suspiciously-wet nappies were EXACTLY how it started for me.  Congratulations!

If you're like me, you'll over-think it for weeks and it won't happen again and then, when you forget to over-think it, it WILL happen again, and again, and again, each time with a little less interval since the last.

Oh I think you're probably right - I probably did wet in my sleep.  I just can't be sure.  It was your account of how you started wetting in your sleep that made me think I probably did.  Quite honestly I'll be happy if it becomes the norm, as it will save me waking as much in the night.  I don't think I will be thinking about it too much though - I'll just take as it comes.  Once I committed to being in nappies for the rest of life, the idea of having any control over wetting became pretty pointless, and I don't want any control anyway.  I've largely got there.

[oznl]

4 hours ago, Stroller said:

I just can't be sure.

And there's the dilemma when we're 24/7 in nappies.  It's very hard to tell. 

To be perfectly honest, I wasn't 100% sure until until nearly 18 months after I suspect it first happened when my beloved was finally permitted to travel (COVID restrictions lifted) and I had the chance to spend a night or two alone in bed and I found out for sure...   I really did NOT want to pee in that bed with no nappy but my body had other ideas.  Then the jigsaw pieces fell into place.

There's still a part of me that is a bit embarrassed that I've done this to myself but there's another part of me that's deeply ok with the idea.

[Stroller]

4 hours ago, oznl said:

There's still a part of me that is a bit embarrassed that I've done this to myself but there's another part of me that's deeply ok with the idea.

I haven't really got the embarrassment issue - it's definitely where I want to be and I'm surprised how comfortable I am with it.  I won't be experimenting with sleeping with no nappy, so who knows how long it will be before I'm sure I'm wetting in my sleep?  Could be tonight, could be never...

I'll tell you one thing though, it's a great comfort having you, Little Sherri et al along for the ride!

[Little Sherri]

I decided to try my own medicine today; after being out at a buddy's until 3 AM or so, I collapsed alone in my bed - my wife & younger daughter are staying at a friend's place - wearing a gloriously wet Megamax. I woke up this morning after having slept like a rock, in a sodden diaper that needed to be replaced. I have no idea if I wet overnight or not, but I definitely didn't wake up for anything that I can recall. 

I decided to put a Rearz Barnyard on, and a diaper shirt, and to treat the snaps on the shirt like they were welded shut, and, no matter what, not to "do" or initiate anything. That was at about 11:00 this morning, and the dam broke about 30 minutes ago, so I was dry for about 3 hours and 15 minutes. What initiated it was actually sitting down in front of my computer - maybe my subconscious recognizes this as a "wetting place". I had been acutely aware that I needed to go for at least an hour, and when I sat down, I felt a bit of a bladder contraction or spasm or whatever you'd call it - not painful, but urgent. Then came a spontaneous, spurt of a release, somewhat akin to a hiccup, and a low-pressure trickle commenced, that built into a torrent. Pressure peaked quickly, and then dropped off, but a minor trickle continued for at least a minute or so, as far as I could tell. Now, I feel pretty empty, and my nappy has notable additional bulk to it. I've decided to stay the course for the moment, and I'm not going to try voiding again, I am just going to see how long it takes to get there again.