EU Referendum: In or Out? [UK Only]

[Elfy]

It won't happen. Jeremy Corbyn has already said he rejects it and there is no reason to believe anyone else will take it seriously.

Hoping for a second referendum is fanciful. The country voted and get what they deserve, if the people that voted Out had done any research at all they would have noticed that their campaign was lying about this stuff.

I would love a second referendum because I really think Remain would win it but that isn't how democracy works. You can't just keep holding referendums until you get the result you want. The only way I see a second referendum happening is if a significant majority of the population demanded (1 million on a petition is nothing compared to number of votes) or if the EU offered a new deal that would make concessions and warranted discussion. Neither of these things will happen.

[Summertime]

Corbyn may have rejected a call for a second referendum but with a vote of no confidence tabled he could soon be ousted, his leadership, if one can call it that has been very lacklustre and for a staunch trade unionist he did little to sell the remain campaign and as a former trade union branch secretary I was very disappointed with him, he not only let the Labour Party down, their voters but trade union members throughout the UK so he has to go.

[Elfy]

The Remain campaign was in many places just as bad as the Leave campaign when it came to hyperbole and scaremongering. We have never had a second general election when we found out the parties elected had lied in their manifesto. It is up to the electorate to check what they say and if we don't then we get what we deserve.

The fact that the youth vote was still as low as it was is a damning indictment of the young people in this country. I have seen a lot of people complaining about the older generations selling the young up the river but if everyone under 30 actually headed out and voted then perhaps they would have got their way.

I would love nothing more than a second referendum and to end up with a Remain win but the implications of that would be worse. That 52% of the vote will be outraged that the vote would happen again just because of a silly petition. Remain may well win the second referendum. Then we have roughly half the country fuming because of the injustice. So what would happen after that? At worst anti-immigrant feeling would be huge. It could be a real problem.

Support for UKIP would skyrocket and when the next election rolls around we could end up with UKIP in power or part of the government. This would be far worse than what we have now... And would probably mean we leave the EU anyway, and in far worse condition then we will leave it now.

That isn't even mentioning the damage done to democracy. The established parties would take a battering and promote extreme parties.

The EU don't seem interested in offering us a deal that would require going back to polling stations so we just have to put up with it. We have made our bed and now we get to lie in it.

All the protests and petitions and things are quite embarrassing and reeks of lots of young people not getting their way and sulking about it. They had their chance. The people who voted Leave as a "protest" vote had their chance, those who didn't bother looking at what they voted for had their chance, the Scottish who now want another referendum even though 36% voted to Leave had their chance. They blew it.

[Wet Knight]

36 minutes ago, Elfy said:

It won't happen. Jeremy Corbyn has already said he rejects it and there is no reason to believe anyone else will take it seriously.

Hoping for a second referendum is fanciful. The country voted and get what they deserve, if the people that voted Out had done any research at all they would have noticed that their campaign was lying about this stuff.

I would love a second referendum because I really think Remain would win it but that isn't how democracy works. You can't just keep holding referendums until you get the result you want. The only way I see a second referendum happening is if a significant majority of the population demanded (1 million on a petition is nothing compared to number of votes) or if the EU offered a new deal that would make concessions and warranted discussion. Neither of these things will happen.

It is all Corbyn's fault !

His pathetic, luke-warm, lack-luster and half-hearted attempts didn't extole any virtues of the E.U.

[starman]

o.m.g another one of those pathetic people who

[Elfy]

I agree.

I love Corbyn's ideas and as a politician I think he is great. But has a leader of a political party he is totally ineffective and needs to go. Tory party tearing itself apart and Labour still behind in the polls, and where was he on the Remain campaign trail? Nowhere to be found.

I hope this vote of no confidence results in a new leader. Corbyn is useful as a politician, maybe even a cabinet member, but he can't continue this ineffective leadership because if an election comes around soon he will not be a good person to lead Labour through it.

[starman]

if labour ever get back into no 10

[Elfy]

Trade unions =/= Labour.

You can't really blame Labour for a decision your trade union suggested. That would be a fault of the trade union itself. But this is meant to be specifically about the referendum thing so lets try to keep it on topic rather than becoming a more general political thread which I'm sure would go to lots of other places.

[Wet Knight]

2 minutes ago, Elfy said:

Trade unions =/= Labour.

You can't really blame Labour for a decision your trade union suggested. That would be a fault of the trade union itself. But this is meant to be specifically about the referendum thing so lets try to keep it on topic rather than becoming a more general political thread which I'm sure would go to lots of other places.

[Summertime]

4 hours ago, Wet Knight said:

[Summertime]

35 minutes ago, diapersalways said:

extremist views only arise like this when its convenient for your argument, its extremist to be declaring the word doesn't apply unless the UK meet its most extreme end of definition.

you know better, we all do, its common sense that this world is shades of grey nothing is black and white and the word independence can apply in margins, not just extremes,

Britain has gained a margin of increase of independence,

of course it hasnt gained absolute independence, nothing in history of the universe ever has, were all apart of the fabric of space after all.........

I don

[Diapered Jason]

I think the UK was independent and following the vote, still is independent. I do know the vote occurred the way it occurred probably because of the greatest migration in human history, which puts a significant strain on social services especially in the EU. On the other hand, if you live in the conflict zones in Africa and the Middle East, you really just have to be anywhere else. For that reason, the US should have stepped up and followed in Canada's footsteps to take in the migrants. It's a shame we did not do more, because as we have just seen, this can lead to a destabilization of Europe if the burden is not shared.

[Wet Knight]

3 hours ago, Diapered Jason said:

I think the UK was independent and following the vote, still is independent. I do know the vote occurred the way it occurred probably because of the greatest migration in human history, which puts a significant strain on social services especially in the EU. On the other hand, if you live in the conflict zones in Africa and the Middle East, you really just have to be anywhere else. For that reason, the US should have stepped up and followed in Canada's footsteps to take in the migrants. It's a shame we did not do more, because as we have just seen, this can lead to a destabilization of Europe if the burden is not shared.

[Summertime]

10 minutes ago, Wet Knight said:

[Elfy]

I really don't think a lot of people understand how much trouble Britain is in right now.

The market and currency are plummeting, the areas that get EU funding are suddenly demanding the same funding from the government in Westminster (farmers got half their pay in EU subsidaries), there have been a few very small demonstrations in favour of deporting foreign nationals and a lot more open racism, businesses are starting to pack up and leave, a lot of places are announcing freezes on hiring new people we have a political vacuum... Our prime minister announced he is resigning and there is literally no plan in what to do next. The leader of the opposition is watching his pary fall apart as well as half the shadow cabinet has resigned and he is attacked on all sides.

The EU is demanding we leave quickly and we sever as many ties as possible... But we can't. There is no one at the top willing to enact Article 50 because if we do that is it, the country is standing on the edge of the cliff, we don't know where the bottom is and actually starting the process to leave will see us jump off.

Vague terms like "more independence" and "put the Great back into Great Britain" are empty rhetoric and ignore everything that a majority of experts in a majority of fields advised and yet here we are willingly voting ourselves into recession and chaos. This is the reason that referendums on these issues are a bad thing... Most people are too open to ignoring experts in favour of emotional rhetoric and this is what happens.

The people who lead the Leave campaign have already gone back on their biggest promises. There won't be money to pour into the NHS like they said there would be, we can't reduce immigration and now some are saying we only want to cut legislative ties and not economic which is funny because to keep the economic ties we would have to accept most of the legislative. Basically we will end up in a similar situation to Norway and Switzerland wherein we end up paying more to the EU, lose our special priviledges and have to accept EU legislation with no say in it (previously we had a say). Before anyone says this sounds like a shitty deal, it is the same with any other deal and if we don't like it we can stop dealing with the EU... Only that will cripple the country completely.

It seems a lot of people are looking for ways to not enact the referendum now (it was only advisory). There is some talk that the devolved regions like Scotland have to agree or they can veto it but that is unclear, some talk about ignoring the referendum and all sorts of business. I'm sure it is fascinating to anyone looking in but the UK has historically been very stable politically, right now is complete and utter chaos and it is only getting worse. Let this be a lesson to everyone that referendums are an inherently bad idea... We elect people for a reason and that is to make these tough decisions.

I think this post makes the EU sound a lot worse than it is. In my opinion it is a great Union and it has benefitted a lot of people in ways they wouldn't even realise and it is only when it isn't there that people suddenly notice everything it did for us.

[Summertime]

1 hour ago, Elfy said:

I really don't think a lot of people understand how much trouble Britain is in right now.

The market and currency are plummeting, the areas that get EU funding are suddenly demanding the same funding from the government in Westminster (farmers got half their pay in EU subsidaries), there have been a few very small demonstrations in favour of deporting foreign nationals and a lot more open racism, businesses are starting to pack up and leave, a lot of places are announcing freezes on hiring new people we have a political vacuum... Our prime minister announced he is resigning and there is literally no plan in what to do next. The leader of the opposition is watching his pary fall apart as well as half the shadow cabinet has resigned and he is attacked on all sides.

The EU is demanding we leave quickly and we sever as many ties as possible... But we can't. There is no one at the top willing to enact Article 50 because if we do that is it, the country is standing on the edge of the cliff, we don't know where the bottom is and actually starting the process to leave will see us jump off.

Vague terms like "more independence" and "put the Great back into Great Britain" are empty rhetoric and ignore everything that a majority of experts in a majority of fields advised and yet here we are willingly voting ourselves into recession and chaos. This is the reason that referendums on these issues are a bad thing... Most people are too open to ignoring experts in favour of emotional rhetoric and this is what happens.

The people who lead the Leave campaign have already gone back on their biggest promises. There won't be money to pour into the NHS like they said there would be, we can't reduce immigration and now some are saying we only want to cut legislative ties and not economic which is funny because to keep the economic ties we would have to accept most of the legislative. Basically we will end up in a similar situation to Norway and Switzerland wherein we end up paying more to the EU, lose our special priviledges and have to accept EU legislation with no say in it (previously we had a say). Before anyone says this sounds like a shitty deal, it is the same with any other deal and if we don't like it we can stop dealing with the EU... Only that will cripple the country completely.

It seems a lot of people are looking for ways to not enact the referendum now (it was only advisory). There is some talk that the devolved regions like Scotland have to agree or they can veto it but that is unclear, some talk about ignoring the referendum and all sorts of business. I'm sure it is fascinating to anyone looking in but the UK has historically been very stable politically, right now is complete and utter chaos and it is only getting worse. Let this be a lesson to everyone that referendums are an inherently bad idea... We elect people for a reason and that is to make these tough decisions.

I think this post makes the EU sound a lot worse than it is. In my opinion it is a great Union and it has benefitted a lot of people in ways they wouldn't even realise and it is only when it isn't there that people suddenly notice everything it did for us.

Although the EU wants the UK to leave as soon as possible it has always been clear that the exit will take at least two years after Article 50 has been enacted and possibly longer, after 41 years the split can

[Wet Knight]

Nobody has a strategy for leaving,

[Elfy]

I think the worst part of it all is that if the younger people had bothered to head out and vote none of this would have happened.

That's the real kicker... The biggest vote that they will probably ever have a chance of being a part of and they didn't bother, as such they let the older generations take them out of something without ever having their voices heard. They are going to be coming out of universities and find a distinct lack of jobs and no opportunity to go elsewhere to find them and then they are going to wonder why.

I originally blamed the older generations and their more, ahem, "conservative values" but really the blame should be squarely on the younger voters who just didn't bother turning out when they would have made a difference.

They have been conditioned that their vote doesn't matter and in our general elections that is usually true and that meant when it came to the referendum most probably assumed the same thing. The Remain campaign was useless in terms of getting their message out and galvanising their voters to go to the polls to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if the people leading the Remain campaign wanted Leave to win.

I'm just tired of it all... The world is supposed to get better as time passes not worse and yet everything I have seen recently makes me want to give up on this shitty country and move elsewhere, I just don't have the means to do so.

[Diapered Jason]

Nope, blame rests squarely on David Cameron since it was his idea to have the referendum in the first place. The population had no idea what the vote was for as was evident by the top Google searches the next day. Also, the leave campaign has already backtracked on their promises for changing immigration and funding NHS. No surprise there. I'm sure David Cameron will be seen as one of the worst prime ministers in UK's history.

[Wet Knight]

14 hours ago, Elfy said:

I think the worst part of it all is that if the younger people had bothered to head out and vote none of this would have happened.

That's the real kicker... The biggest vote that they will probably ever have a chance of being a part of and they didn't bother, as such they let the older generations take them out of something without ever having their voices heard. They are going to be coming out of universities and find a distinct lack of jobs and no opportunity to go elsewhere to find them and then they are going to wonder why.

I originally blamed the older generations and their more, ahem, "conservative values" but really the blame should be squarely on the younger voters who just didn't bother turning out when they would have made a difference.

They have been conditioned that their vote doesn't matter and in our general elections that is usually true and that meant when it came to the referendum most probably assumed the same thing. The Remain campaign was useless in terms of getting their message out and galvanising their voters to go to the polls to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if the people leading the Remain campaign wanted Leave to win.

I'm just tired of it all... The world is supposed to get better as time passes not worse and yet everything I have seen recently makes me want to give up on this shitty country and move elsewhere, I just don't have the means to do so.

[Elfy]

40 minutes ago, Wet Knight said:

To be serious:

[Summertime]

1 hour ago, Wet Knight said: