Minnesota Girl Forced To Run In Diaper For Bad Grades: Police

[rusty pins]

How long will it take people to learn that negative reinforcement doesnt work?

So true! An old boss of mine used to come around and look for something wrong just to get all over the employee! Sure, some were legitimate problems, but I used to say, "If you have to get all over someone because something isn't quite right with their work, why don't you come up an hour later and find something positive to say to him, or praise someone's work when it's done really well?" His answer? "Why should I tell someone they did a good job when that's what they are supposed to be doing?" And the company wondered why moral was so low! I guess they must have figured it out because after speaking with several employees, that manager was fired! When I was a manager (at a different company), I would take the time to explain to people in a nice pleasant "teaching" way why something was wrong, explain why and then instruct on how it should be done. I always left the employee with a smile and good feeling and knowing they have been properly shown how to do something. My office ended up being number 1 out of 17 offices for the company. Sometimes you just have to use common sense!

[Baby Brian]

How long will it take people to learn that negative reinforcement doesnt work?

Not true! Negative punishment DOES work. Humanity has a long history of negative reinforcement working, even when it made no sense to do so. Granted it's not as effective as positive reinforcement but who doesn't remember sitting in a corner (or even getting spanked) as a warning not to do something bad again. That worked more often than not for most of us, and I'd hardly call it positive reinforcement. Personally, I think a combination of the two is the most effective.

What these parents did might have been a little wrong but it's likely no more damaging than spanking is. Parents aren't taken to jail or sentences for that, so I'd have to say the judge was harsh but fair- expect it wasn't his (or anyone else's) place to reside on a ruling here.

[rusty pins]

Child abuse is child abuse weather it is mental or physical. We can't possibly know at this point what emotional damage this has done to this girl. Cutting off her hair and making her run around outside for half an hour in front of everyone in a diaper? And that is only a "little wrong" and "no more damaging than a spanking"? Maybe some kids could handle it, but lots of others could be scarred for life with this kind of humiliation. I can imagine the teasing she is getting from her peers. I could never ever think of doing anything close to that to one of my own children! As adults, I know many like the embaressment and humiliation associated with the AB and diaper lifestyle and some may even be a little envious of what was done to this girl, wishing the same would happen to them!. The thing is, we are all adults! If our partner, wife or husband wanted to dress us up in diapers or force us to wear them out someplace and deny us use of the toilet, put us in locking plastic pants or force us to do a weekend of baby play with full time diapers and baby food, that is one thing! We are adults and if things went too far with our roll play, we can set rules. We are not talking roll play or AB lifestyle here with embaressment and humiliation as part of our fetish. We are talking about parents humiliating, embaressing and abusing a child by cutting off her hair and forcing, yes forcing her to wear a diaper out among the neighbors and friends! She is a child! How is she supposed to rebel against her parents (or mom and boyfriend), the people she depends on at her age to shelter her, provide a place to live and grow, and food to eat. It's not like she's old enough to get a job, move away and provide for herself! I think the majority here feel that the punnishment either was proper or not harsh enough for what these people did to this girl.

[Honu]

Punishment isn't the most effective behavior modification technique and it fails with other animals! Positive reinforcement is effective, even the human knows you are using it to modify their behavior.

In this example, the desired behavior was passing grades. An intermediate step was bringing home assignments from school. Since the daughter was not bringing assignments home, the parents should contact the teacher and get them. Once home, completion of a homework problem earns a reward.

Consider the typical interrogation room. The perp is sweated until he gives the interrogator something and then is immediately given some reward - an encouraging comment, display of understanding or even a can of soda. The stress is greatly reduced and the perp spills his guts.

You just have to be creative and aware of what are rewards and to only mark good behavior. Show me a person with a well trained dog and I'll bet that their children are reasonably behaved as well.

[Guest Little-Tike]

Thats cruel to do that to their kid. I could see if it were some fantasy of ab/dl of course of age here. I think parents need counseling and this poor child needs better parents and be taking away from them. And i would make the parents do what they did see how funny it is now you sick parents.

[WBDaddy]

This "discipline" was way beyond the pale, and the perpetrators deserve exactly what they got.

That said, there are some folks here who have a major disconnect with what is and isn't effective discipline. The old adage about the "carrot and the stick"? It's true. Going strictly with positive reinforcement all the time teaches a child over the long haul that they don't have to do anything unless there is a reward for doing it. This does not teach them the self-discipline they'll need to function as adults in a world where there are many more consequences for FAILING to do things than rewards for DOING them.

Likewise, all negative reinforcement teaches a child that nothing they do is good, and destroys their self-affirmation, which can be just as damaging going into adulthood, as they become increasingly dependent on external influence to accomplish anything at all. This especially rears its head in one's love life, where the person tends to embrace anyone who shows them the slightest bit of affection, and clings for dear life to that relationship, even when they are being abused, so long as those little bits of praise are sprinkled in...

There must be balance in parenting - the carrot and the stick.

[WBDaddy]

Using diapers as punnishment for humiliation or embaressment, weather for bedwetting or getting a bad grade in school is totally wrong!

Once again, I submit that this opinion is borne of ignorance.

My son was a month removed from his 5th birthday the one and only time I put him in a diaper as punishment for a transgression.

Mind you, he had been a very difficult trainer - he didn't respond to any of our attempts to encourage him to use the "potty" until my (ex) wife finally just started putting him in regular underwear - the first time he dropped a load in his pants was the moment the light bulb went on, and he dried up both day and night immediately.

So during that summer approaching kindergarten, after he'd been completely continent for well over 8 months, he developed a curious habit. We had a neighbor who had kids his age (girl of 5 and boy of 4) and he went out to play with them regularly during the day. One late afternoon, he came in from playing with his pants soaked. Obviously, he'd wet himself. His mother of course took his clothes off, bathed him, put fresh clothes on, and kept him in for the evening as she normally would. This turned into a pattern rather rapidly - he came in wet from playing outside after lunch more often than not. She never changed her pattern, only shook her finger and groused at him each time - something he was used to from her - words without actions to back them up. Meanwhile, in his little mind, there was no consequence for wetting, only positive reward (playing without interruption, one-on-one with Mom in the form of a comforting bath and fresh clothes) - so he kept doing it.

Finally, after walking in just after he came in wet from playing for the fifth time in six days when I got home from work, I jumped in the car, cruised up to the grocery, picked up a pack of XL Pampers, and brought them back. His mother had just finished bathing him and was drying him off on his bed, and I told her I'd dress him. When I pulled the package out of the bag, his eyes got big and he meekly asked me "Are you gonna put me in a diaper?"

I said plainly "Yes, I am. If you don't want to take potty breaks, then I have to put you back in diapers." He didn't cry, but he was definitely not happy when I sent him back out to say goodnight to his mother in just a diaper and a t-shirt. In fact, he hid behind a chair rather than face her directly. When he got up the next morning, I took his (still dry) diaper off and let him go to the toilet. I told him (with his mother standing there) that he was to wear diapers when he went out to play in the afternoons until he decided that he was going to take potty breaks when he needed to, and told his mother that the weather was much too hot to put pants or shorts on him.

His mother carried out my edict, and he stayed dry that afternoon and never wet his pants again. I asked him once if he remembered the incident, and he had no idea what I was talking about.

Tell me again how inappropriate my choice of discipline was?

[willnotwill]

While the threat or use of diapers in a wetting toddler is controversial, it's within the realm of acceptable punishments.

Throwing a 12 year old outside unclothed (frankly diaper or panties or naked probably would have all been met similarly, but we'd not be discussing the others here) for bad grades is just so far out of any semblance of sane discipline.

[WBDaddy]

While the threat or use of diapers in a wetting toddler is controversial, it's within the realm of acceptable punishments.

Throwing a 12 year old outside unclothed (frankly diaper or panties or naked probably would have all been met similarly, but we'd not be discussing the others here) for bad grades is just so far out of any semblance of sane discipline.

That's why I said

This "discipline" was way beyond the pale, and the perpetrators deserve exactly what they got.

[dlsmd]

and told his mother that the weather was much too hot to put pants or shorts on him.

im not saying that you were a bad person for doing this but i had this happen to me when i was 5-6 years old because i would wet my pants because of my moms boyfriend scared the hell out of me i would just stay out side instead of going inside to pee and for a time after he was out of the picture i wouild still do it because i was still scared about something happening

i guess you have to take into account what happened to cause the problem in the first place

if you read my link in my sig you will know a few thing that point me in the direction that diapers are no a way to punish someone

[WBDaddy]

im not saying that you were a bad person for doing this but i had this happen to me when i was 5-6 years old because i would wet my pants because of my moms boyfriend scared the hell out of me i would just stay out side instead of going inside to pee and for a time after he was out of the picture i wouild still do it because i was still scared about something happening

Exactly why I'm making the point, every situation is different, and making broad-based statements like...

Using diapers as punnishment for humiliation or embaressment, weather for bedwetting or getting a bad grade in school is totally wrong!

...doesn't allow for circumstances. It's not always totally wrong, it depends on the situation.