Warning: Do Not Click If You Have Religious Views You Do Not Want Challenged

[Alexandra]

Alex, you're full of it!

So now your denying history read text book all of things i mentioned did happen and were perpatrated by Christens and also will you please stop calling me Alex call me Alexandra and if you can't do that can you at least call me something better than just Alex like how about Lexi or something

[Bettypooh]

You can rip on god, you can rip on the bible. That's on you, but you can't take away my BELIEF!

So you guys can think you're so smart, you can prove the bible wrong lol. So!

You can believe whatever you want! No matter how hard you try to conveince me, you can take away my belief.

Try telling a Muslim, his religion is wrong! I'm sure you don't have the back bone to do that!

Rip on Christians, cause they don't get all crazy and kill people

Dear heart, I can prove every religious text I've ever read (including the Bible) very wrong many times over by showing you where it totally contradicts itself. And I am not speaking about taking things out of context either- I am taking the whole as intended and seeing the lies therein I will not go through that process with you because you're totally indoctrinated into seeing what you want to see as you ignore the things you don't want to see. You are what the Bible refers to as a "Zealot"- look that up yoursel\f. If you really want to study the Bible and learn it, you need to do so all by yourself because when someone else tries to explain something you don't understand they can cause you to believe wrongfully, whether intentionally or not.

All religions are about power- they want you to believe and live their way and they will reject you unless you do that. They all have a hierarchical structure which you must support to be a part of them. They all essentially brainwash you into believing as they do whether it be true or not. And if you find something in error and try to get them to change it they will browbeat you into submission as a way to keep you indoctrinated. Yes, that's right- religions have doctrines so when you follow them you are indoctrinated Think about that truth awhile and if you don't like it then do what I did. I am literate and reasonably intelligent. I can read for myself- I don't need someone else to tell me what has been said so I don't give em the chance to mislead me- I learn on my own so that I cannot be mislead.

I have found my beliefs all by myself, double-checking those things where the religions I was once a part of seemed to be wrong. In finding the truth I knew they were wrong and that most of the 'upper management' knew it but they didn't have the intestinal fortitude to step up and tell their flocks that "I have misled you and I want to correct that." They too were browbeaten into submission and some will tell you in private things which they will not say in the pulpit because they don't want to lose their status in the church- they have invested so much of themselves in propagating their preferred doctrine that they will lose a lot to back out now. Instead they try to justify their beliefs and practices instead of correcting them. I once listened to a sermon where the preacher said "No man can know and understand everything in the bible"- that was his day's topic. After the sermon I asked him in his chambers about the books of the Apocrypha which were removed from their version of the bible by organized religion over 100 years ago. His reply was that if they had meant anything they would be in there and I needed to read and understand the entire bible before I started looking at anything that was not in it. Yes, this was an ordained minister who had studied the bible and had a degree in it from a respected university. Their religion is based on a book where their religion's leaders agreed to remove the word of god from the bible where it is forbidden to remove what they say is the word of god from it- what hypocrisy! I read those removed books and now I understand why they removed them and why they don't want you to know that. Nobody likes to be proven wrong by the words they say are true- it takes more guts than they can muster to handle that truth. If I can have that courage as an individual why can't their millions find a way to do the same? Perhaps they do not really want to know the truth!

That, dear heart, is why I call myself an independent Protestant which sums up my beliefs fairly well. I do not need to justify any of my beliefs and nobody has ever been able to prove any of them wrong- but I have shown them all where they held beliefs that were wrong. Just like you they will not believe what I say- in fact none of them has yet dared to open their bible and look to see the words for themselves because they fear finding the truth is what I said and not what they want it to be. Diaperboykcmo, when you're ready to learn the truth I can tell you how to find it on your own. Until then you should realize that you are shooting yourself (and your religion) in the foot when you open your mouth on this subject. And you're getting mighty close to personal attacks against some of those posting in this thread. If you cannot debate the concept without saying something bad about someone who disagrees with you then say nothing until you can.

Personal attacks are against the site rules here and that goes for everyone.

Bettypooh

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

Bettypooh, before you call me out or warn me about personal attacks please look at what others have said about me!

As far as religion goes, that's the whole thing, I think it actually makes you ani religion people mad.

I won't actually debate you, you say this that and the other. I can prove you wrong ect, religion's not real so on and so forth.

Some on here, want to conveience me I'm wrong, but they can't!

The whole topic of this post was, just to stir things up. They even give a warning about views being challenged.

I say, it's all about belief, and you can't prove me right or wrong! That's the beauty of it!

With all due respect, I love this site, but please don't warn me about personal attacks, when you don't warn others.

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

@ Alexandra , yes I know about the crusades, but to equate Christians to Muslims as far as killing goes. That's just not right!

[wetman]

@ Alexandra , yes I know about the crusades, but to equate Christians to Muslims as far as killing goes. That's just not right!

I love this post just for its satirical value. 1^!

[belinda_sue_fox]

Sooooooooooo, whats the score now?

I make it 70%, 60% and 80% for the three sides of the discussion with a error of + or - 352.7%

I've plucked my data straight out of the etha just like everyone else on this thread has.

[Bettypooh]

Bettypooh, before you call me out or warn me about personal attacks please look at what others have said about me!

I have done that and with the exception of one post I have not found anything approaching what I consider a 'personal attack'. I have seen others debate your concepts and decry your lack of presenting anything to back up what you you say. Of everything so far, only you have escalated your apparent anger towards named persons here- thus my comments. Plus you don't seem to have taken the time to read the topic title. Instead you are getting angry because what it said isn't to your liking.

The whole topic of this post was, just to stir things up. They even give a warning about views being challenged.

I say, it's all about belief, and you can't prove me right or wrong! That's the beauty of it!

With all due respect, I love this site, but please don't warn me about personal attacks, when you don't warn others.

You could have and should have known what to expect by joining this discussion so you have no reasonable expectation to not get your views questioned here. Adding that you will not oblige requests to prove your statements as others have attempted to do with theirs, you are not adding to this discussion as much as what might be considered as inflaming it. Since you have to hit a key to post I think it fair to presume that you are doing that intentionally. And it is not about belief- just because you believe something does not make it the truth.

I did not single you out to warn only you of personal attacks- I made that statement openly in a separate paragraph for all to see. It was intended to be seen by all and I think it probably has been. I do notice a few others here who are not gathering any affection from me for the way they are acting, but so far they have stayed well within the rules of this site (with one possible exception which I will seek advice on should I feel it necessary to make a decision regarding their actions).

As advice to everyone, if you cannot respond to something without anger you should not respond. Instead you should first seek to find out why you are angry and whether it is correct. You might be surprised to find out that you were wrong when you truly do that because that is the source of most expressed anger! (Thanks to my therapist Sandy for teaching me that one ) And if you cannot or will not attempt to substantiate what you say on this thread then say nothing, for the purpose of this thread was clear in it's intent- this is a thread which you are likely going to be asked to prove your beliefs on and if you're not wiling to do that then make this a read-only thread and do not post.

I do not agree with everything I've seen on this thread but I expect those who I do not agree with feel the same way toward me. It seems that at least they respect each others right to see things differently and can accept that as not being a problem. The problems arise from those who believe that their way is the only way and that everyone else must be wrong, and from their insisting on changing the world to suit them when it doesn't want their changes imposed on it. People who act like that are not going to find willing recipients for their message among the average populace, thus they are 'shooting themselves in the foot' so to speak, and carrying their set of beliefs with them when they do it. That shows a lack of intelligence, compassionate understanding, or both and that is why I avoid doing that.

I will close by saying that if you cannot offer proof for your beliefs you should not have them- how strong and valid can beliefs be when they cannot be proven? I think that making this clear might have been the intent of this thread when the OP started it.

Bettypooh

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

I should correct myself, it was other posts where people crossed the line, cause if you feel I'm coming close to personal attacks. Look at Breitbart, and who supports Obama threads.

I'm not angry about anything lol.

You or anyone else, can't tell me what I should believe, and how I need to back it up. Somehow discrediting what I believe.

That's the beauty of it all, that's what makes America great.

Freedom of Religion!

You can believe, superman is your god, you can believe mother earth is your god. You can also believe in no god.

I believe in God, that's all.

No matter how hard you or anyone else trys, you can't prove me right, or wrong!

I think that's why some people are upset, cause they can usually get people to bend to their will, not me.

So they sit around and chase their own tail, but at the end of the day it's still your tail!

[belinda_sue_fox]

I will close by saying that if you cannot offer proof for your beliefs you should not have them- how strong and valid can beliefs be when they cannot be proven? I think that making this clear might have been the intent of this thread when the OP started it.

Seriously??

Your missing the whole context of religious belief. The point being no proof needed! It's not some form of scientific theory, hypothosis or law.

[Guest gnappies]

Seriously??

Your missing the whole context of religious belief. The point being no proof needed! It's not some form of scientific theory, hypothosis or law.

Which is how I prefer to live my life by.

[Diapered Jason]

I should correct myself, it was other posts where people crossed the line, cause if you feel I'm coming close to personal attacks. Look at Breitbart, and who supports Obama threads.

I'm not angry about anything lol.

You or anyone else, can't tell me what I should believe, and how I need to back it up. Somehow discrediting what I believe.

That's the beauty of it all, that's what makes America great.

Freedom of Religion!

You can believe, superman is your god, you can believe mother earth is your god. You can also believe in no god.

I believe in God, that's all.

No matter how hard you or anyone else trys, you can't prove me right, or wrong!

I think that's why some people are upset, cause they can usually get people to bend to their will, not me.

So they sit around and chase their own tail, but at the end of the day it's still your tail!

Would you like some cheese with that whine? lol. I am sorry, but it seems you are weeping shades of cozened indigo. What that means is you are hiding behind your America is great argument when that is not the crux of this thread. The point I made that god is a figment of your imagination has yet to be disproven and I have mentioned published neurological work as evidence. I am not trying to make you believe anything, I am just trying to engage you. Perhaps if you answer some of my criticisms and defeat some of my arguments, you may strengthen your faith in god.

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

@Belinda, I agree 100%!

@Jason, Would you like some cheese with that whine? WTF are you talking about, no one is crying

America is great argument when that is not the crux of this thread, America makes my point. Freedom of Religion

The point I made that god is a figment of your imagination has yet to be disproven, I can't prove it, either can you. It's a belief

Perhaps if you answer some of my criticisms and defeat some of my arguments, you may strengthen your faith in god.

No reason too! You can't shake my belief, my faith in God dosen't need to be strengthen!

Perhaps if you answer some of my criticisms and defeat some of my arguments, you may strengthen your faith in god.

[Alexandra]

I can't offer any proof because therre is none but I can offer my justification for my faith, I believe that the gods are one with nature and the forces of the universe like all of the old storys are really alagorie and that the mythicism of the goddly world and the physical world interact like a pair dancing, every sun rise is because the earth rotates but it is also because Helios pulls the sun in his golden charriot its one in the same just differnt ways of looking at the same truth. mind you this is just my own belief which I follow because it brings me comfort and everyone is entitled to there own interpretation of our vast and wonderful world

[Diapered Jason]

@Belinda, I agree 100%!

@Jason, Would you like some cheese with that whine? WTF are you talking about, no one is crying

America is great argument when that is not the crux of this thread, America makes my point. Freedom of Religion

The point I made that god is a figment of your imagination has yet to be disproven, I can't prove it, either can you. It's a belief

Perhaps if you answer some of my criticisms and defeat some of my arguments, you may strengthen your faith in god.

No reason too! You can't shake my belief, my faith in God dosen't need to be strengthen!

Perhaps if you answer some of my criticisms and defeat some of my arguments, you may strengthen your faith in god.

You have not brought anything forward other than saying "nuh uh," and then you complain when you can't take the heat after dishing it out yourself. This is on top of not taking any responsibility for what you may have said in the first place. In this thread and others, you have purposely sought to create contention by posting unfounded belligerent insults in an attempt to garner attention for yourself. One of the most horrendous displays of this is calling that Georgetown student a slut. Screw it, I am just going to label you as someone with an extreme narcissistic attitude and ignore you. I will let you wither in your own ignorance while you find no fault of your own in any of your actions.

[wetman]

...

Freedom of Religion

...

This is not really true. If you disagree, ask why, and I'll explain by asking you a few questions.

...

No reason too! You can't shake my belief, my faith in God dosen't need to be strengthen!

Your faith is being strenghtened. Curious? Rules as above.

[KittenAB]

Just as an aside, but news from over the pond in Briton. Within the next few years we will become a majority Agnostic/Atheist society. Although its has been for years as 75% of people who ticked Christian on the census, do not attend church or partake in any form of adherence to faith.

Islam is third at 2% behind Christian, then Agnostic/Atheist.

This is great news, a more balanced mixture of life goals. The more I hear of how far your country is coming, the more worried I am that the US has fallen behind so much. Here atheists will put out an ad just like the Mormons, Catholics, and all the other christian cults do, and they get attacked for "attacking our god" when the ad does nothing even close to that. Yeah, we're dragging our feet and it's sad.

[KittenAB]

To the thread in general, thank you moderators. To most everyone, this is highly fascinating, the dynamic of religious discussion is actually quite nice. I value the well though out input, even if I do disagree with some of it. It is nice to see some civil discussion across faiths and those without religious beliefs. I do apologize for some of my crassness to some points, old habits and all. Back to the discussion now.

I have a question for the christians who say, or believe, that they can prove their religion to be true. Well a few questions. Please answer honestly and these are not meant as insults so if one does make you uncomfortable feel free to abstain from answering.

1. Can you prove your religious texts are true and how?

- Note: Using the "historical evidence" has been debunked a lot and I will not accept that or the "other records" argument, which has also been debunked. Use your own words, please. Convince me that the texts are true.

2. Can you answer for the evils your god has done in these religious texts?

3. How do you determine which laws are considered real and which are not in the texts?

4. Do you know for certain that the religious leaders are not lying to you and how do you know?

Final note: I have read the bible front to back. As well as several other religious texts and versions of the bible. These are christian-centric questions but other religious folks are welcome to answer these. Just that the thread has been steered more toward a debate on the validity and "goodness" of christianity as a whole.

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

@Jason, Awww Don't get upset. You're mad cause there is no argument for my belief. You wanna debate it, you wanna porve me wrong so bad! You can't.

@Alexandra , Now you see my point. Neither one of us can prove right or wrong. It's our belief, guess it's also our opinion.

I find it fascinating that so many wanna prove me wrong. They say you don't talk religion or politics.

I say why not. Religion, can't be proven right or wrong. It's your own personal belief!

[JBonn]

You have not brought anything forward other than saying "nuh uh," and then you complain when you can't take the heat after dishing it out yourself. This is on top of not taking any responsibility for what you may have said in the first place. In this thread and others, you have purposely sought to create contention by posting unfounded belligerent insults in an attempt to garner attention for yourself. One of the most horrendous displays of this is calling that Georgetown student a slut. Screw it, I am just going to label you as someone with an extreme narcissistic attitude and ignore you. I will let you wither in your own ignorance while you find no fault of your own in any of your actions.

Jason, I admire your attempt but I think you're better off just ignoring this one. He's sending but not receiving. I often find that people with similar mindsets just refuse to address any rational arguments and begin to chant the same things over and over again.

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

@jbonn. What am I supposed to add. Cause I don't buy into your guys argument, better yet. Cause I have my own beliefs, and whatever anyone says, I just brush it off, and say religion is a belief. You can believe what ever you want!

Once again Freedom of Religion.

You guys get mad, cause I won't play.

There is no rational argument against my belief, cause it can't be proven right or wrong!

Some just think it can.

As I said you can spend all day chasing your tail, but at the end of the day it's still your tail!

[belinda_sue_fox]

For gawd sake can't someone get their act together.

You not going to prove one way or the other that religious belief is true or false.

What you can do is prove that parts of their scriptures, holy wo*ks etc are wrong. But even if you do that it don't mean you have proved their religion isn't the one true religion..blah blah blah.

And lets not forget supposidly the written word was invented by the devil to spread misinformation (course Apple may dispute that and claim and he was infringing on a prior IP).

[Diapered Jason]

Jason, I admire your attempt but I think you're better off just ignoring this one. He's sending but not receiving. I often find that people with similar mindsets just refuse to address any rational arguments and begin to chant the same things over and over again.

Thanks, but I am not particularly proud of being the one who had to call this guy out, but someone had to say something. I am sure he will respond to this post with the same cockiness as before, since there is no way he will ever accept blame. What he does not understand and probably never will understand is my last post was not about his beliefs, but his character and his behavior he has frequently shown. I have been patient enough with him giving him plenty of chances, so I think it is best we ignore him. This will be the last time I speak of him.

[Alexandra]

@jbonn. What am I supposed to add. Cause I don't buy into your guys argument, better yet. Cause I have my own beliefs, and whatever anyone says, I just brush it off, and say religion is a belief. You can believe what ever you want!

Once again Freedom of Religion.

You guys get mad, cause I won't play.

There is no rational argument against my belief, cause it can't be proven right or wrong!

Some just think it can.

As I said you can spend all day chasing your tail, but at the end of the day it's still your tail!

yes religious belief can't be proved but you can at least give your justifications as I did earlier

[Bettypooh]

Seriously??

Your missing the whole context of religious belief. The point being no proof needed! It's not some form of scientific theory, hypothosis or law.

For gawd sake can't someone get their act together.

You not going to prove one way or the other that religious belief is true or false....

There is an obvious disparity here I will say again- religion equals a search for what one thinks is true and good; there is no other reason to become religious within the bounds of any religion's tenets. All the major religions I have studied (and they are many) forbid your becoming part of it until you believe it; to propose that someone would choose to believe that which they do not feel is true is ludicrous. Most expressly forbid you becoming a part of it for personal gain or profit, for only the social aspects it offers, or to take advantage of other things it offers. And most also require that you state publicly that you believe that religion is exclusively true, with all others being false.

It is my belief that no known organized religion is singularly true or offers you something that another religion cannot offer. That is why my own beliefs preclude my being a part of any organized religion. Beyond their social and support structures they have nothing to offer anyone in this lifetime other than a prepackaged set of beliefs that all have something provably wrong with them. One does not have to be in error, so I am not going to blindly accept what anyone or anything tells me until I believe it true based on my own personal investigation and experiences.

Just because anyone or anything says something is true does not make it so, though it does do something- it makes the depth of that person's thought processes more evident and it shows how well they are in touch with reality (or not). Believe what you will, but know that believing wrongly means that you have been fooled. Take from that what you will

Bettypooh

[Guest gnappies]

This is great news, a more balanced mixture of life goals. The more I hear of how far your country is coming, the more worried I am that the US has fallen behind so much. Here atheists will put out an ad just like the Mormons, Catholics, and all the other christian cults do, and they get attacked for "attacking our god" when the ad does nothing even close to that. Yeah, we're dragging our feet and it's sad.

The French have an even better idea. No religious teachings, clothing, or symbols are allowed or promoted in the state education system. After you're 18, it's up to the individual to decide.

I think you'll find most of northern Europe is heading the same way along with the Scandinavians. Also with the eastern European and Russian independent states now westernising. Though religion was banned during communism, it has never recovered post communism.

It will also help in the future dealing with the worlds biggest import/exporter the Chinese, who tend to be Agnostic/Atheist.

There are plenty of other things wrong with Britain like the 'nanny state', but religious zealots are one of the things being tackled.

Even the Church of England may be forced to perform 'Gay' marriages, how the catholic church, Islam and the rest react will be interesting. If the C of E have to do this, then it will be law for all religions recognize gay marriage, even if it is against their teachings.

The Law is considered above religious doctrine.