Nappy Curriculum

[freswith]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/9066921/Knickers-to-the-nappy-curriculum.html

This reinforces my perception that parents are delaying toilet training. I wonder if they realise they are producing a new generation of DLs?

[Diapered Jason]

http://www.telegraph...curriculum.html

This reinforces my perception that parents are delaying toilet training. I wonder if they realise they are producing a new generation of DLs?

Actually, I was wondering the opposite thing, since not growing up too fast could prevent urges for regression later in life. Anyways, the article is about finding the right balance. You want childhood to be fun, but you do not want the child to not learn anything. Of course, adopting different learning processes all together that accomplish both these goals may be key, but I am not really certain what those learning processes would be.

[Bettypooh]

Proper child-rearing will always be a contentious subject, but I am glad to see that at least it is being (finally) recognized that we all grow up at a different rate and that this is how it is supposed to be You cannot place a timeframe on people who develop at different rates, and yet that is exactly what our current social structure does. We are not machines; we are human, and our human needs at least weigh equal to our social need to develop into a viable part of society in the end.

When one looks at what society deems to be the most successful people, one sees that those people never lost their child-like enthusiam to be themselves and to try new things and ideas just to see what happens. And yet there are those who would stifle that part of us thinking it is the path to success in society later in life- sheesh!

Bettypooh

[sarah_ab]

speaking of different rates ... my friends grandson is turning four intwo weeks and just wnet his first full week without a day time accident!! he just did not want to use the potty on his own and as i said just now at four is out of day time pull ups .... the granddaughter.... the sister of the little boy is 18 months and already starting to use the potty on her own .... same parents just totally different kids.... while frustrated at the continued cost of diapers the parents never pressure or punished their son to use the potty but sis try to provide lots of reminders and praise to encourage him .... with their daughter she asks them to use the potty .... even when she doesnt habe to go!!!

[cruxshadow]

Actually, I was wondering the opposite thing, since not growing up too fast could prevent urges for regression later in life.

That would make sense for ABs who want to regress, but the original proposal (that staying in diapers longer could create DLs) makes sense. A person's sexuality, though not anywhere near being mature, does begin to develop early. It could be that still wearing diapers while one's further along in their sexual development engenders a diaper paraphilia.

[Diapered Jason]

That would make sense for ABs who want to regress, but the original proposal (that staying in diapers longer could create DLs) makes sense. A person's sexuality, though not anywhere near being mature, does begin to develop early. It could be that still wearing diapers while one's further along in their sexual development engenders a diaper paraphilia.

Well, that is possible too.

[nappylover78]

Seems to go both ways, in that people with both unusually early and unusually late potty training feel it may have played a part in their DL feelings. If you're out of nappies very early you may be left with feelings of wanting to experience what was taken from you too soon, those who stay in them a long time might find it difficult to give them up.

[freswith]

Further comment:-

http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/301457/Jennifer-Selway

[Diapered Jason]

Further comment:-

http://www.express.c...Jennifer-Selway

Sounded bombastic to me. It did not really say anything, as it consisted mostly of an opinion with an extremely weak premise that stated "The Association of Teachers and Lecturers found that two-thirds of teachers have seen a rise in the number of children still wetting themselves." There is a myriad of possible explanations for this. For example, the poor economy has caused parents to work longer hours or take another job to balance their budget, thereby not having enough time to potty-train their kids. There were even some falacies present as well, such as "Put your two-year-old in a pair of pull-ups and they could wear them until next Christmas," which is not true since they are designed to be uncomfortable and let the child know when he or she wets (I know, I have worn them myself). That is not even pointing out the only fact is not even a statistic, but rather an observation of who knows how many teachers. There is just not enough information to claim parents have gotten lazier in that article or anything for that matter.

[nappylover78]

Nappies "look" far too comfortable? Why not try them yourself to find out then, Ms Selway...

[mikejackson999]

Sounded bombastic to me. It did not really say anything, as it consisted mostly of an opinion with an extremely weak premise that stated "The Association of Teachers and Lecturers found that two-thirds of teachers have seen a rise in the number of children still wetting themselves." There is a myriad of possible explanations for this. For example, the poor economy has caused parents to work longer hours or take another job to balance their budget, thereby not having enough time to potty-train their kids. There were even some falacies present as well, such as "Put your two-year-old in a pair of pull-ups and they could wear them until next Christmas," which is not true since they are designed to be uncomfortable and let the child know when he or she wets (I know, I have worn them myself). That is not even pointing out the only fact is not even a statistic, but rather an observation of who knows how many teachers. There is just not enough information to claim parents have gotten lazier in that article or anything for that matter.

Actually she does have a point. Pull ups and diapers are made with "strips" for the child to know they are wet, but if its a small wetting, they will not feel it at all. When I was potty training my kids, once they turned 1 1/2, they went from disposable to cloth diapers, and by the time they turned 2, they were all pretty much out of diapers for the most part, because they hated the feel of a wet diaper on them, even with a small wetting.

[freswith]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101292/They-wear-nappies-drink-cola--dont-know-open-book-One-teachers-terrifying-insight-5-year-olds-failed-parents.html

More of the same from another source. It does seem to be a fairly widespread problem. (but less widespread if the child is wearing a nappy....Ooops!)

[Diapered Jason]

Actually she does have a point. Pull ups and diapers are made with "strips" for the child to know they are wet, but if its a small wetting, they will not feel it at all. When I was potty training my kids, once they turned 1 1/2, they went from disposable to cloth diapers, and by the time they turned 2, they were all pretty much out of diapers for the most part, because they hated the feel of a wet diaper on them, even with a small wetting.

Well, even if you could show this, you would still have to prove how it was relevant to the author's conclusion that parent's laziness is the reason more kids are showing up at school not potty-trained. If you recall at the beginning and end of the article, you will see she speaks vehemently about this in a very prejudicial manner. Still, I have worn the Pull-ups myself, and they are definitely not comfortable even with a little wetting. They itch like you would not believe.

http://www.dailymail...ed-parents.html

More of the same from another source. It does seem to be a fairly widespread problem. (but less widespread if the child is wearing a nappy....Ooops!)

Now that is a well-written article that successfully proves the point of the other article and strikes at your very heart, but I think it would be better if it had more evidence showing how widespread this problem is. Heresay is not good enough. Like I said before, it would be nice to have some statistics. That said, I am probably going to agree with the author's conclusion in this case and say it is a problem that should be dealt with.

[mikejackson999]

Jason, you are looking at it from an adults viewpoint. Go to a child with a wet pull up and ask them if they are wet, and most times the child is going to tell you "no", because they simply want to keep playing and do not want to stop. And that is normal for kids. That is why they have those patterns that disappear, they like to claim its for kids to know that they are wet, but its really for adults to know without having to stick their fingers into the diaper/pullup. When my kids(I have 6 of them and another on the way) were in diapers, if they wore disposable diapers on long trips instead of cloth(made it easier for us to change them), every time I would ask them if they were wet, they would always say no, but wearing cloth, if they were wet, they knew they were wet and would want to be changed ASAP.

I do not have numbers to show its a rising problem, but I would not be surprised if it was though, considering my local public school system has a rule in place that the child must be toilet trained before they can be enrolled in school, unless they have a verified medical condition(doctors note), and when they are allowed to enroll wearing diapers/pullups, they go to the nurses office for a change, the teacher does not change them. The same rule is in place at the private schools my kids go to as well. Many preschool programs for 4 yr olds in my area also have that rule as well.

I have lived where I live all my life except for a few years I was in the military when I was younger. I never saw many 3 yr olds in diapers growing up, never saw many 4 yr olds either(unless they had medical conditions), yet I can go to several different parks in my area today and see several 3-4 yr olds wearing diapers under their pants. I have no idea why, but I really do suspect that it was from that fad years ago where a diaper company stated over and over and some Dr. Phil types all said "let the child decide when they are ready".

All of my kids were out of diapers by 2 1/2, but like I said earlier, when they were 1 1/2 I shifted them from disposable to cloth, so they would not like wearing wet diapers all the time and would come to me or the wife and say they were wet.

My stepkids on the other hand, my wife had a hell of a time getting her 3 boys out of diapers. 1 wore until he was nearly 4, the other 2 didn't get out of them until they were around 3 1/2. She said when she would ask them if they were wet, they always said no, and letting them sit in wet diapers/pullups never bothered them as long as they could play(like i said earlier, normal for kids). They never complained until they were not doing anything to keep them occupied.

[DiaperPony]

My son is almost 5, and he doesn't care whether it's a pullup or cloth underwear, he'll pee in it and never say anything. So I have to ask him to find out. However he won't lie about it, because he knows he'll be punished if he lies to me.

Last year I brought his accidents up at his 4 year old checkup and the pediatric doctor did not seem concerned in the least. I will bring it up again this year.

I don't have control of what my ex does, so that makes it harder. When he has an accident, her and her bf punish him severely, which he of course tells me about. So he hides his accidents from them, and he's often wet when I pick him up. She of course claims he never has accidents while he is there (I can only guess that she is playing some psychological game). So I always check and make her change him when I pick him up, just to continue to provide evidence of her lies. Anyhow, while he is with me, I don't want to traumatize him, but he really needs to learn bladder control. I've tried various things like treats when he uses the toilet.. but then he'd just selectively go when he wanted candy and be wet the rest of the time. So, then I changed it to only candy if he had dry underwear.. so he'd pee himself, change his underwear then go again to get candy. So then I tried well if you have an accident no more candy that day, but that of course didn't work. I did set a rule that he can only play his games with try underwear. But, I'm very hesitant to punish him directly for having an accident.

Does anyone have any suggestions or opinions? I've tried a lot of things, but maybe there's something I can do to both help him and not create a future AB/DL.

[mikejackson999]

I don't know what time you put your son down to bed at night, but one trick you could try is to move it back 30 minutes and then say if he remains dry all day, he gets to stay up later. Another trick my sister used on my nephews was for every day they stayed dry, they would get their favorite food for dinner as well, but if they were wet, they wouldn't

I would get him examined first, and not just the normal routine examination, insist on a bladder test, because your son may have a small bladder still, which cannot hold very much(like one of my kids had when they were younger, hence why he had a blanket bathroom pass from 1st-3rd grade, which is the same thing I had until 4th grade) so when it fills, he may know he has to go, but when he does, its to late because the bladder is already full.

[TBlazer]

I can remember having numerous accidents growing up, which were usually followed by punishment of some sort. Humiliation and wanting to be a "big boy" was the real trick, though i hear m&ms played a role as well. I trained at three, which at the time was considered late.

Btw its complete BS that training late could somehow create paraphilic infantilism. If that was the case we would be a nation of adult babies. Sexual desires are imprinted at a much earlier age then toilet training.

[DiaperPony]

Thank you both for your ideas!

[Diapered Jason]

I can remember having numerous accidents growing up, which were usually followed by punishment of some sort. Humiliation and wanting to be a "big boy" was the real trick, though i hear m&ms played a role as well. I trained at three, which at the time was considered late.

I would not use humiliation as punishment for wetting. Seriously, there are many many alternatives such as confining to the bathroom with no toys or anything.

[TBlazer]

I think the humiliation came from my parents reinforcing the feelings of wanting to be an adult and not have accidents. They didn't go out of there way to punish me, though I can remember my mom being pretty upset at times. And having two older sisters as role models added to the humility of it all.

I would never go out of my way to humiliate my child. Social pressures on the other hand i think are a good, effective way to jump start the next phase of a childs life. I was attached to diapers before being potty trained, so for me it was a good thing to want to grow up and join my peers outside the changing table.

[sarah_ab]

at 5 years old he is old enough to be changing himself... so when u see he has wet, go into the bathroom with him, and make sure he fully cleans and changes himself... also start taking him to the bathroom once an hour or every two hours etc... and staying there until he uses the toilet.... Explain to him while he is cleaning himself up that it is just much quicker to run and use the potty than having to take even more time to clean up. Never let him sit in the used diaper etc.. but MAKE him clean himself up... make him go get new underwear/pants, and the wipes.. make him roll it up and throw it in the trash.. also start having him help with the laundry...

THis is not to punish him, but at 5, assuming he doesn't have a medical condition, he would be wiping himself a lot of the time... so he needs to be doing that now, even if he is wearing pullups... If nothing else, to teach him how to care for his own hygiene.

[DiaperPony]

Yay more ideas thank you everyone! I definitely do make him change himself. Not sure if laundry will add much, but that's a good idea too, thanks! When he changes he has to put his wet clothes in the hamper and I make him use the bathroom right after changing.. but sometimes within even 10-15 minutes he can be wet again (but it varies). My latest thought was to write a program for my old phone that sounds an alarm every X minutes to remind him to go (of course I will enforce that too).

[mikejackson999]

Since you make him sit on the toilet after a change, maybe you should make him sit on the toilet until he does something(since you said within 10-15 minutes he usually does something).

It really sounds like he is being told to do two different things between you and the ex. What needs to happen is for the ex and yourself to get together(I know it is the ex for a reason) and come up with 1 set plan that BOTH OF YOU will follow with him. It does a child no good when one will do things one way,. and the other does it another way, the kid gets confused that way.

[DiaperPony]

It really sounds like he is being told to do two different things between you and the ex. What needs to happen is for the ex and yourself to get together(I know it is the ex for a reason) and come up with 1 set plan that BOTH OF YOU will follow with him. It does a child no good when one will do things one way,. and the other does it another way, the kid gets confused that way.

I agree with you 100% and really wish we could get there, but she's not even willing to admit that he even has accidents when he's at her place (she claims he never has accidents there.. of course then I check as I pick him up and sometimes he's wet... so it's an obvious lie). As a result of her dishonesty the conversation can't even get to how we're going to work together to help him with his accidents. In other words, she passes it off as me failing, me being lazy, etc.. because he supposedly only has accidents at my place and she is perfect. Her way seems to be punishments and taking away privileges which make him want to hide the fact that he is wet.. so much so that he seems to have gotten used to being wet for extended periods of time to avoid her punishments. I'm not willing to punish him for wetting himself, because I'm not even sure how much control he really has.. or maybe he has some other medical issue, and I figure he gets enough punishments for it at her place. When I'm at the doctor in a couple months, I'll definitely push for those medical tests.