Anyone Still Support Obama After Ndaa?

[Horndog]

I see liberalism as the empowerment of government to "level the playing field" for everyone. Conservatives call that socialism.

I see conservatism as the empowerment of people to build America brick-by-brick. Liberals call that blind faith in the free market.

It's really potato, po-tah-toe. In the long run, both sides really want the same things, such as personal autonomy, equality and success.

That said, open-mindedness is not some code-word for wanting the "other side" to agree with you. It's about listening. I said that a few times already. As KittenAB said, it's about incorporating new information instead of "reciting the same claims or conspiracy theories over and over again." See, that's why I ignored a few people in this thread. I've softened my "absolute ignore" stance, and will reply to comments that show the potential of having a constructive dialogue. That I will give them.

[Alexandra]

The problem I see with the left and being open mided and I have proved this point out repeatedly is that many who claim opendmindedness are only open minded within the confines of what they agree. It's open minded to be pro gay marraige however to even attempt to understand where someone who is against it is coming from is immediately close minded ir ignorant. the progressives like to throw racist or ignorant around as buzz words to discredit opposition while the religious right wingers use hell and the overzealous secular right wingers use socialism and communism, likewise a liberal will throw marxism and facism as buzz words. I simply do not understand any government thta needs to dictate to the people and businesses under it's jurisdiction what thye can like, what they can't like and how do run their day to day lives. If you don't believe in something then don't practice it, likewise if you do believe in something then do so. the problem is when either side decides they need society's approval for whatever act they wish to partake. I had a discussion with an individual who attacked libertarianism due to open business practicies, citing the usual extremists argument of "What if a business had a no homosecuals sign?" simply put the correct answer to that question is I wouldn't shop there, nor would I a business that openly mocked my faith, eventually free market would reign in and either the business will collapse or change their mantra. Government enforcement of togetherness doesn't remove hatred or poor ethical practices, people being allowed to let the free market dictate success and failure does. There are obvious exceptions to every rule so I don't think this statement neccessarily should be allowed to apply to the public sector, however public sector is not relegated by free market anyways.(i.e. hospitals or anything federally funded or supported.)

For starters I've said quit clearly that an open mind does not mean bowing to others opinion it does however mean counterninsing the possiblity that the other side could have a point and taking that point and togather forming a stronger opinion based on compromise and the sharing of ideas. Also I would give anyone a chance to explain their problem with something like gay marriage but if they come back with some bs like "gay marriage is against god" or "its un American" then I stop carring completely and no I actually know people who are against gay marriage and while we've debated on the issue many times and I think she is wrong in her position I would not call her closed minded or ignorant why because she made a fair case against it and presented it in a politie mannor and she listen to my points for it without saying she was automatically right. also I don't believe it was any libral who brought in terms like marxism and communism into this forum. also though I hate to raise this spector think back to the start of nazi controled germany all the shops forbbidding jewish costomers where did that lead, see while your right you could and should just shop at another store that dosen't discriminate against you the issue is it sets preccident which means if one store forbides blacks who to stop 20 other stores from following suit its better to have the gov. safety net than let the free markets try to work themselfs out because they can't they won't its silly to think they could because the people who run the free market got so high up the corpert ladder by being cold, calculating, and in most cases underhanded if not criminal so its a good bet without any restrainsts the demons of those men in women would fly free and corrupt the market as much as the robber barons did and if you think that time was something worthy of repeat your either an elitest or a very poor judge of history. also the idea of well if we just don't go they're they'll stop discriminating to get us back is flawed on the basic sense of well they never wanted you they're to begin with and they'd be happy to see you and anyone else they don't like leave trust me when I say unless we're talking some small town bussiness no company would lose enough costomers by banning a minority that it would phase them at all

[Diapered Jason]

I see liberalism as the empowerment of government to "level the playing field" for everyone. Conservatives call that socialism.

I see conservatism as the empowerment of people to build America brick-by-brick. Liberals call that blind faith in the free market.

I do not see either party that way. In fact, what I am noticing is the corporate Republicans who use to rule the Republican party are sort of becoming Democrats, while the social conservatives take over the old Republican party. True, the Democrat party still has your fair share of Nancy Pelosi's, but they also have plenty of Arlen Specters. With the Republican party, I see mostly people like Eric Cantor taking over. When the senior members of the Republican party like John McCain and Olympia Snowe are gone, what will be left? I think the old system where Democrats represent the unions and Republicans represent the businesses is long gone.

[Leilin]

Ron {aul is more of a Consitutionalist which is what our government was supposed to be based on.

Please see the earlier parts of this same thread for the response to this statement. It is not based in fact.

[KittenAB]

Please see the earlier parts of this same thread for the response to this statement. It is not based in fact.

Aside from the typo, it actually is. The constitution is about limiting the power of the federal government while establishing basic, unquestionable, rights. It had a few errors, such as the whole slavery bit, which are corrected by amendments. However, the US federal government is not suppose to overstep the constitutional limits, which is the problem with some of the amendments. You do realize that our states are the same size as most countries, right? There's a pretty good reason for that. Even Russia figured out that a single government over too many people is just impossible and will always become corrupt ... Russia ... of all the people to figure this out. Though the Russians did go to the extreme and we probably should not, it's the same concept.

[KittenAB]

That is not a fact, that is an opinion founded on anti-union rhetoric.  The only possible thing I can say from that is we sometimes lack the ability to fire bad teachers due to tenure, but I think I am putting words in Redneck's mouth.  Perhaps we should look at the fact the average teacher salary is about $45,000/year with an average starting salary of $30,000/year.  Keep in mind, the school does not pay for many of the materials in the classroom and these things often comes out of the teacher's pocket.  There is not much motivation for good talent to come to the field regardless.  With class sizes on the rise, schools in disrepair, and state cuts to education, we should first ask what the problem is before assuming who is causing the problem.

Of course it's anti-union, but it is not rhetoric, and it's based on several solid numbers. First, class size has not shown to impact the amount of learning possible. Second, we already spend the largest on schools in the world yet have lower test scores, which could have many more factors involved but this shows that money isn't the problem. Third, unions do prevent bad teachers from getting fired, I have witnessed this quite often. Like the teachers teaching creationism, they still teach science because ... they can't be fired. So they just teach evolution poorly ... thus making the test scores fall. So you see, simply saying "it's the money" is a fallacy, it's the same argument used by those wanting military funding ... do you really want to enter a debate using their argument and win with that argument?

[Diapered Jason]

Of course it's anti-union, but it is not rhetoric, and it's based on several solid numbers. First, class size has not shown to impact the amount of learning possible. Second, we already spend the largest on schools in the world yet have lower test scores, which could have many more factors involved but this shows that money isn't the problem. Third, unions do prevent bad teachers from getting fired, I have witnessed this quite often. Like the teachers teaching creationism, they still teach science because ... they can't be fired. So they just teach evolution poorly ... thus making the test scores fall. So you see, simply saying "it's the money" is a fallacy, it's the same argument used by those wanting military funding ... do you really want to enter a debate using their argument and win with that argument?

So on your first point, show me an article that proves class size does not matter when it comes to learning, because everything I have seen is in disagreement with that including my own experience. On your second point, I was not talking about this and yes, this is true. Thirdly, we are in agreement with this, but it only represents a fraction of the problem. I am just concerned, because it seems the conversation in the public square has moved far beyond this positing the belief unions are bad and collective bargaining rights should be removed as they are the only ones to blame (How that even relates to firing bad teachers I do not know). As I have said before, the amount of money paid to teachers is crap, so where is the money going? The last time I was in high school was 6 years ago. Other than sports, it was very wonted and a complete waste of time for what I sought to do. Does anyone want to know why? I will give you a hint. It did not have much to do with the teachers. For the most part, they were fine. It actually had something to do with what the administration did. The problem was there was not enough text books for every class, so the students could not take them home. As a result, about every other day was spent reading through the text book rather than lecturing. So much time was wasted and that is by far my biggest complaint. There was some other issues as well, such as some of the ridiculous things in the culminating project that were recently added and the amount of time spent studying towards the standardized tests in class. Of course, these are just the superficial issues.

[KittenAB]

So on your first point, show me an article that proves class size does not matter when it comes to learning, because everything I have seen is in disagreement with that including my own experience. On your second point, I was not talking about this and yes, this is true. Thirdly, we are in agreement with this, but it only represents a fraction of the problem. I am just concerned, because it seems the conversation in the public square has moved far beyond this positing the belief unions are bad and collective bargaining rights should be removed as they are the only ones to blame (How that even relates to firing bad teachers I do not know). As I have said before, the amount of money paid to teachers is crap, so where is the money going? The last time I was in high school was 6 years ago. Other than sports, it was very wonted and a complete waste of time for what I sought to do. Does anyone want to know why? I will give you a hint. It did not have much to do with the teachers. For the most part, they were fine. It actually had something to do with what the administration did. The problem was there was not enough text books for every class, so the students could not take them home. As a result, about every other day was spent reading through the text book rather than lecturing. So much time was wasted and that is by far my biggest complaint. There was some other issues as well, such as some of the ridiculous things in the culminating project that were recently added and the amount of time spent studying towards the standardized tests in class. Of course, these are just the superficial issues.

I really don't believe the union ideal is bad, just the unions as they are. Unions do need more checks, and employees need to have protection when they wish to opt out, especially if they disagree with a strike. I also do not believe unions should be collecting dues, as those go to union heads who, let's be honest, work far less than they are being paid for. It's a system that has only shown that when a small group of people have power, it will attract the most corrupt people to that group.

The class size argument, I admit, was just based on logic. Schools with smaller class sizes do not fair better than those with larger sizes. This could be due to a lack of comparitive analysis on the part of statistical collectors though, and this is often the case with statistics cited by articles. I forgot the fancy term for this, but just because one thing happens does not inherently mean it's because of another thing that's happening.

Right now the only real facts we have that can be connected to lower test scores is the fact that our teachers in public schools just plain suck. I remember there being three teachers, of the entire time I was in school (that my memory can recall) which actually taught the students and had a genuine desire to see us learn, not just succeed but actually learn.

One was a chemistry teacher, who saw my zeal for the science and gave me his old college textbook to use in class since I was accelling faster than his typical student. He loved the teaching part so much, he gave rather fun and energetic lectures most of the class, the labs were always something he put a lot of weight, then the homework to him was just because he had to, in which he let us grade our own work. He even had a very laxed grading system, knowing that most of the lessons were redundant, your two highest quarter grades became your year grade, and labs made up the bulk of that grade. His students also had the highest test scores, and what made it even better, I did not qualify for the class originally but my insisting that I could pass it was why he made the exception. He also hated the unions, and really did not like striking at all.

Another was an ex-Catholic teacher, who only switched to public school because she thought we were more behaved. She was great just because she loved her job, which was a huge pay cut for her.

The last was a junior high English teacher, not my best class, I did horrible, but he still allowed me to pass because he said I was demonstrating great linguistic skills in spoken word, but since that can't be quantified he was forced to use written word as the basis of grades. He was also our Karate Club teacher, which I was also a part of.

Of the more than 30 teachers I have ever had, these three did not care about their pay, the unions, or even the politics of the school system, and their students' grades on standardized tests were higher than those of other teachers. Yes, I was in one school district the whole time, so it's only a fraction of an example, however it illustrates that the teachers focusing on the politics of the system often pay little attention to what their students are doing, it's a time filler, so how is it that they are able to teach well if they are constantly focusing more on lobbying and such. Most of the money going into education doesn't even filter into the schools, most gets spent on lobbyists, union leaders, and administrators, while the things that directly impact the students gets almost nothing.

So when the Republican supporters say "it's the spending" they are partially correct. But it's not how much spending, it's how it's being spent. The school system has almost zero accountability for where the money goes, look it up, find the numbers of what gets spent where ... if you can. I have tried, and they don't exist, other than theoretical numbers posted in news articles. The actual numbers, from the school districts themselves, are not released to anyone, not even to the federal government. So again, increasing how much we spend will not benefit the students at all, it will just be mispent by those who are playing politics with the students' education. Food for thought.

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

No I will not vote for that anti American, anti religion, anti morals and values socialist BHO! I have to ask you BHO supporters what has he done that's good for America! I'll go ahead and swat your buddy's accomplishments.

He got Obama, with W's policies. You know the one's BHO was against.

He pulled us out of Iraq, really is that such a good thing! Radical Muslims are going to fill the vaccum.

He helped, bring democracy to Libya and Egypt. LMFAO..

Egypt. He helped topple our allie, as Laura Logan was gang raped in the square, as them animals shouted jew jew jew

Libya, he helped to destabilize a country that was going in the right direction. They turned over their plans to make WMD's.

So we helped to overthrow Khadaffi. Then we all got to watch those Savages kill Khadaffi. They're no better then him!

Libya and Egypt will both be ran by the Muslim Brotherhood. Guess what they hate us!!

So basically we did Al Queda's dirty work.

Please tell me again what has BHO accomplished. Oh yeah I voted for him, for that I apologize.

I voted for him

Not a career politician , thought he would be able to relate to the Average joe.

He said he wouldn't have lobbyists in his administration. He Lied

He said he would have Bills on the Net for 48 hours prior to voting on the bill. He Lied

He said he would have Gitmo closed.. They just built a new soccer stadium there. He lied

He said there was no red America or Blue America. He has divided us more then any other President

He goes around apologizing and Bowing to other world leaders. What a Putz!

He abuses his power!

His attorney general is a Racist. He wouldn't press charges against the Black Panthers for voter intimidation.

He said they were "his" people. Pay back time for whitey!

He treats our friends like garbage. He nuzzles up to our enemies.

He apologizes for the koran burning, but didn't say anything about our troops being killed over that BS!

He begged Iran to return the drone that went down in the Osama Raid.

He's made us weaker then any other President in our history

He's ran up massive debt

He's purposley letting gas prices soar

Remeber he even said under his plan, electric prices would sky rocket

He believes in that BS global Warming.

You realize the so called Green jobs, cost more then they're woth making

There's my reason's why I won't vote for BHO

[sarah_ab]

sometimes i see who makes the post and all i see in the post is BLAH BLAH BLAH I'm not worth listening to because I make no sense BLAH BLAH BLAH...

i love that i have a filter like that....

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

Sara that's something one would say, when they have no intelligent thing to say! I know my stuff, and I shut alot of people up, cause I deal with facts and satistics! So blah blah blah! Don't play in my sandbox, I'll make you look foolish!!

[Diapered Jason]

Sara that's something one would say, when they have no intelligent thing to say! I know my stuff, and I shut alot of people up, cause I deal with facts and satistics! So blah blah blah! Don't play in my sandbox, I'll make you look foolish!!

Talking about foolish, I am not a huge supporter of Obama, but I can tell you I will probably vote for him, because people like you are now running the Republican party. You can't even justly criticize him, because our foreign policy has been very good. Try focusing on the imperfections of the stimulus bill and how he did not succeed in decreasing the cost of health care while all at the same time not even attempting to balance the budget during their super majority. You will have to do your research to accomplish this.

Are the Republicans going to balance the budget? They say yeah, we are going to lower taxes to 20%, we are going have the greatest army in the world, and we are going to get rid of those pesky government programs like the EPA and the Department of Labor, which make up less than 1% of the budget. Budget Balanced!

Sorry, Obama's budget proposal may not be balanced, but it is a step in the right direction as opposed to the Republican plan.

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

People like me lol! Yeah the EPA is stopping job growth, too many regulations! Obama could lower the gas prices tomorrow, all he has to do. Is do what Bush did, he said they'd start drilling here at home. You realize we have more oil here then they have in the Middle East. Anyhow when we talk about drilling here, OPEC freaks out! They know if we ever figured out our best move would be to drill here. Then we wouldn't need them, let them drown in their oil! They can't have that.

Everyone of my points was valid. If you don't agree with them sorry, but it's all true. Try to debate them, if you want!

To balance the budget, we first need to get our tax system in hand. I'm for Cap and balance. The fair tax is also a good system.

Yeah under a Republican Administration, we will have a stronger defense!

If you think Bho's Budget is in the right direction, there's not much I can tell you.

I'll just leave you with some facts, that would point out that Obama's budget is in the wrong direction.

Under Bush the debt went from 5.7 trillion-10.6 trillon in 8 years

Under BHO 10.6 Trillion to 14 + trillion. in 3 years

Unemployment under W average was 5.3%

When Obama took over the unemployment was 7.3%, it's now 9.0%

The real unemployment is like 14%. So many people have dropped out of the work force. They're no longer counted!

[Diapered Jason]

People like me lol! Yeah the EPA is stopping job growth, too many regulations! Obama could lower the gas prices tomorrow, all he has to do. Is do what Bush did, he said they'd start drilling here at home. You realize we have more oil here then they have in the Middle East. Anyhow when we talk about drilling here, OPEC freaks out! They know if we ever figured out our best move would be to drill here. Then we wouldn't need them, let them drown in their oil! They can't have that.

Everyone of my points was valid. If you don't agree with them sorry, but it's all true. Try to debate them, if you want!

To balance the budget, we first need to get our tax system in hand. I'm for Cap and balance. The fair tax is also a good system.

Yeah under a Republican Administration, we will have a stronger defense!

If you think Bho's Budget is in the right direction, there's not much I can tell you.

I'll just leave you with some facts, that would point out that Obama's budget is in the wrong direction.

Under Bush the debt went from 5.7 trillion-10.6 trillon in 8 years

Under BHO 10.6 Trillion to 14 + trillion. in 3 years

Unemployment under W average was 5.3%

When Obama took over the unemployment was 7.3%, it's now 9.0%

The real unemployment is like 14%. So many people have dropped out of the work force. They're no longer counted!

Your superficial knowledge of this is astonishing. You will have to explain what those numbers represent and the actual trend that took place, because otherwise we are just making assumptions. In addition, I already explained to you the oil issue with charts while describing the inelasticity of oil prices. Your imperceptiveness is testament to your lack of sagaciousness.

[KittenAB]

.... and the discussion in this thread just got infected by a cancer. Thank you for completely destroying what was a decent (though a bit heated) discussion and devolving it into bullshit, KCMO. Sorry, but no, you are wrong on so much there is no point in even trying to point out how wrong you are because you wouldn't even listen, you have the mind of a useless speck of dust and should return to being a droid on the assembly line of life, leave the thinking to the humans. But you are right, not everyone did evolve from monkeys, you clearly have not evolved beyond a virus, draining the life out of anything ressembling intelligent discussion simply to spew a hate filled rant that makes no point.

I'm thought of as insane by my peers, but you make me look sane. Thank you for playing.

[Horndog]

I have to ask you BHO supporters what has he done that's good for America! I'll go ahead and swat your buddy's accomplishments.

http://whattheheckhasobamadonesofar.com/

Have fun.

[redneck diaper boy]

Real numbers! I use to have 3 jobs. Now I have one. My income has decreased by $26,000 last year. My health insurance is up to $19,000 a year. Thank God my two mortgages have locked rates. Gas is almost doubled. My electricity use to cost $.08 per kilowatthour. Electricity is now $.13. Propane gas is 4 bucks a gallon. Durng the Bush era propane was $1.60

I will allow many things but any president that takes away my freedom and reduces my lifestyle is out!

As for jobs, Obama is doing some creative book-keeping. The people that are no longer getting un-employment benefits and not working are NOT considered in Obama's unemployment figures. Those who are no longer seeking employment are not considered to be unemployed. Now for the fral kicker. Thanks to Obama, there are fewer American jobs! Those oil rigs, out in the Gulf of Mexico, went somewhere else! Obama said "no" to the Keystone pipeline but to listen to him you would think it is being built! That is like needing water, the faucet being 300 feet away but you only have a 25 foot hose!

The liar and chief has to go!

[Leilin]

Yeah! What's with that government? Why aren't we counting infants in unemployment, those lazy lumps!? What about retired people!? They have to be counted too!

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

Goodjob redneck diaperboy

@kittenab, how do you breathe, when your head is so far up! Well you figure it out!

All you do is go around name calling.

None of you here can debate my stats, or defend the indictment against BHO!

You sound just like your Buddy BHO, he does the same thing you guys do.

Makes shit up. can't defend his positions. If you disagree with him, you're a racist lol!!

You guys are so easy, just plain Stupid.. You'd follow him off a cliff! That could be the same Cliff, he's trying to take our great country!

The smart people got off that bus!!

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

@homdog, that's all you got!

Spaceflight programs, he shut down NASA

Consumer Reform Law, we the consumer got stuck with a $5 Transaction fee. Thanks BHO!!

Way to look out for the middle class

[Alexandra]

No I will not vote for that anti American, anti religion, anti morals and values socialist BHO! I have to ask you BHO supporters what has he done that's good for America! I'll go ahead and swat your buddy's accomplishments.

He got Obama, with W's policies. You know the one's BHO was against.

He pulled us out of Iraq, really is that such a good thing! Radical Muslims are going to fill the vaccum.

He helped, bring democracy to Libya and Egypt. LMFAO..

Egypt. He helped topple our allie, as Laura Logan was gang raped in the square, as them animals shouted jew jew jew

Libya, he helped to destabilize a country that was going in the right direction. They turned over their plans to make WMD's.

So we helped to overthrow Khadaffi. Then we all got to watch those Savages kill Khadaffi. They're no better then him!

Libya and Egypt will both be ran by the Muslim Brotherhood. Guess what they hate us!!

So basically we did Al Queda's dirty work.

Please tell me again what has BHO accomplished. Oh yeah I voted for him, for that I apologize.

I voted for him

Not a career politician , thought he would be able to relate to the Average joe.

He said he wouldn't have lobbyists in his administration. He Lied

He said he would have Bills on the Net for 48 hours prior to voting on the bill. He Lied

He said he would have Gitmo closed.. They just built a new soccer stadium there. He lied

He said there was no red America or Blue America. He has divided us more then any other President

He goes around apologizing and Bowing to other world leaders. What a Putz!

He abuses his power!

His attorney general is a Racist. He wouldn't press charges against the Black Panthers for voter intimidation.

He said they were "his" people. Pay back time for whitey!

He treats our friends like garbage. He nuzzles up to our enemies.

He apologizes for the koran burning, but didn't say anything about our troops being killed over that BS!

He begged Iran to return the drone that went down in the Osama Raid.

He's made us weaker then any other President in our history

He's ran up massive debt

He's purposley letting gas prices soar

Remeber he even said under his plan, electric prices would sky rocket

He believes in that BS global Warming.

You realize the so called Green jobs, cost more then they're woth making

There's my reason's why I won't vote for BHO

Anti-American really!? fuck you thoose are the insults of a person who has no real grounds for they're argument hell anyone can do that like I could say your anti-respect or anti-common sense but to be fair at least your nonsense posts prove my claims vaild.

Also yes pulling out of the middle east is good the whole cause of the violence in that area is our involvement think back to what really started this hatered not the fact that islamic extreamist hate america because of our life style no it was after ww2 when we gave jerusalim to the isrealites and robbed the muslims of their holy land. also since all you said here was lmfao all I should respond with is maybe you should get off your fat ass and do some reserch into politics and history.

Also seriously not cool to claim such a horrible tradegty as a woman getting gange raped is obama's fault I leave that where it stands and anyone who calls another human an animal is nothing but scum so you just nuked the smallest shred of credibilty you had.

again savages only makes you sound like the savage and really how do you figure Libya was in the right director I'd love to hear an explanation on that.

No we divid ourselfs no one man can be blamed but when people like you who just reapet the same partisan fueled hate spew your words its the real cause of the divid in America.

Since when is humility a bad thing as I recall its a virtue something we want in a president.

how can you actually site any examples or are you just using hyperbolie again

even if thats true how is that his fault so he has a bad staff that doesn't make him a bad president

maybe "whitey" should stop being so parroniod and just get with the times hate and prediudice has no place in enlightened modern society

how and when has he mistreated an allie and as for being friendly with enemys thats good its better to turn an enemy to your side through persasion than to just annialate them with war an if you can't understand that concept then try reading Sun Tzu's art of war

yes he did because he was trying to appease a very angry mob to stop the attacks on americans not everything is solved with brute force so him appoliging for something really stupid which should have never happened in the first place will save more lives than pointing the finger at the muslims and telling them to stop it.

how has he made us weaker I want some specifics if your going to make such an extream hyperbolie as that

what like bush or even 90% of our president have done be more clear in your bashing please

nonsensical conspiracy talk how I loath it what presindent ever would want to run up gas prices it doesn't even sound logical

oh I hope your grandchildren rember your lack of bleif in that BS of globale warming when we have freezing sumers, burning winters, and the whole ecology of the planet is fucked up beyond repair

maybe but for the planets sake I can live with that

fine but how about you go the whole way and just not vote

Sara that's something one would say, when they have no intelligent thing to say! I know my stuff, and I shut alot of people up, cause I deal with facts and satistics! So blah blah blah! Don't play in my sandbox, I'll make you look foolish!!

you would know mr. "I'm right and anyone who doesn't agree can just shut up because they're retarded" and what facts I saw no citation no real example if you have facts I think we'd all like to here them but I doubt you do. sandbox is right given the fact your at the intellectuall and matcharity age of a child at least from what I've seen in your post.

People like me lol! Yeah the EPA is stopping job growth, too many regulations! Obama could lower the gas prices tomorrow, all he has to do. Is do what Bush did, he said they'd start drilling here at home. You realize we have more oil here then they have in the Middle East. Anyhow when we talk about drilling here, OPEC freaks out! They know if we ever figured out our best move would be to drill here. Then we wouldn't need them, let them drown in their oil! They can't have that.

Everyone of my points was valid. If you don't agree with them sorry, but it's all true. Try to debate them, if you want!

To balance the budget, we first need to get our tax system in hand. I'm for Cap and balance. The fair tax is also a good system.

Yeah under a Republican Administration, we will have a stronger defense!

If you think Bho's Budget is in the right direction, there's not much I can tell you.

I'll just leave you with some facts, that would point out that Obama's budget is in the wrong direction.

Under Bush the debt went from 5.7 trillion-10.6 trillon in 8 years

Under BHO 10.6 Trillion to 14 + trillion. in 3 years

Unemployment under W average was 5.3%

When Obama took over the unemployment was 7.3%, it's now 9.0%

The real unemployment is like 14%. So many people have dropped out of the work force. They're no longer counted!

Oh is Obama a magical genie I didn't know that your totally right he should just wave his hand and fix the economy what a selfish prig right. I'd love to hear your response if an oil spill happen because of those oil rigs if we drilled in america how would you fix that mr. know it all do tell.

Ah how universal ignorance is sounds just like I'm right everyone else wrong I've already stated that has no place in debates so you fail

really how would you pay for that strong military with you fair taxes I want some kind of an explanation maybe a digram of how you'd budget things with less tax revenue

also please list your citation otherwise 'm left with the logical assumption that your pulling these numbers straight out of your ass

Goodjob redneck diaperboy

@kittenab, how do you breathe, when your head is so far up! Well you figure it out!

All you do is go around name calling.

None of you here can debate my stats, or defend the indictment against BHO!

You sound just like your Buddy BHO, he does the same thing you guys do.

Makes shit up. can't defend his positions. If you disagree with him, you're a racist lol!!

You guys are so easy, just plain Stupid.. You'd follow him off a cliff! That could be the same Cliff, he's trying to take our great country!

The smart people got off that bus!!

Aw how the infinate darkness of space calls the kettle black.

@homdog, that's all you got!

Spaceflight programs, he shut down NASA

Consumer Reform Law, we the consumer got stuck with a $5 Transaction fee. Thanks BHO!!

Way to look out for the middle class

Nasa is not shut down the space flight program is and thats because tax payers don't want to pay for scientific advancement anymore than for schools and health care

oh and how about some respect for Obama in at least calling him by name not this BHO kiddie shit what are you 13 grow up.

Oh and before you fire back about how stupid and wrong I am let me beat you to the punch

[KittenAB]

Anti-American really!? fuck you thoose are the insults of a person who has no real grounds for they're argument hell anyone can do that like I could say your anti-respect or anti-common sense but to be fair at least your nonsense posts prove my claims vaild.

Also yes pulling out of the middle east is good the whole cause of the violence in that area is our involvement think back to what really started this hatered not the fact that islamic extreamist hate america because of our life style no it was after ww2 when we gave jerusalim to the isrealites and robbed the muslims of their holy land. also since all you said here was lmfao all I should respond with is maybe you should get off your fat ass and do some reserch into politics and history.

Also seriously not cool to claim such a horrible tradegty as a woman getting gange raped is obama's fault I leave that where it stands and anyone who calls another human an animal is nothing but scum so you just nuked the smallest shred of credibilty you had.

again savages only makes you sound like the savage and really how do you figure Libya was in the right director I'd love to hear an explanation on that.

No we divid ourselfs no one man can be blamed but when people like you who just reapet the same partisan fueled hate spew your words its the real cause of the divid in America.

Since when is humility a bad thing as I recall its a virtue something we want in a president.

how can you actually site any examples or are you just using hyperbolie again

even if thats true how is that his fault so he has a bad staff that doesn't make him a bad president

maybe "whitey" should stop being so parroniod and just get with the times hate and prediudice has no place in enlightened modern society

how and when has he mistreated an allie and as for being friendly with enemys thats good its better to turn an enemy to your side through persasion than to just annialate them with war an if you can't understand that concept then try reading Sun Tzu's art of war

yes he did because he was trying to appease a very angry mob to stop the attacks on americans not everything is solved with brute force so him appoliging for something really stupid which should have never happened in the first place will save more lives than pointing the finger at the muslims and telling them to stop it.

how has he made us weaker I want some specifics if your going to make such an extream hyperbolie as that

what like bush or even 90% of our president have done be more clear in your bashing please

nonsensical conspiracy talk how I loath it what presindent ever would want to run up gas prices it doesn't even sound logical

oh I hope your grandchildren rember your lack of bleif in that BS of globale warming when we have freezing sumers, burning winters, and the whole ecology of the planet is fucked up beyond repair

maybe but for the planets sake I can live with that

fine but how about you go the whole way and just not vote

you would know mr. "I'm right and anyone who doesn't agree can just shut up because they're retarded" and what facts I saw no citation no real example if you have facts I think we'd all like to here them but I doubt you do. sandbox is right given the fact your at the intellectuall and matcharity age of a child at least from what I've seen in your post.

Oh is Obama a magical genie I didn't know that your totally right he should just wave his hand and fix the economy what a selfish prig right. I'd love to hear your response if an oil spill happen because of those oil rigs if we drilled in america how would you fix that mr. know it all do tell.

Ah how universal ignorance is sounds just like I'm right everyone else wrong I've already stated that has no place in debates so you fail

really how would you pay for that strong military with you fair taxes I want some kind of an explanation maybe a digram of how you'd budget things with less tax revenue

also please list your citation otherwise 'm left with the logical assumption that your pulling these numbers straight out of your ass

Aw how the infinate darkness of space calls the kettle black.

Nasa is not shut down the space flight program is and thats because tax payers don't want to pay for scientific advancement anymore than for schools and health care

oh and how about some respect for Obama in at least calling him by name not this BHO kiddie shit what are you 13 grow up.

Oh and before you fire back about how stupid and wrong I am let me beat you to the punch

*facepalm* I can't believe you bothered with an obvious troll.

However, your point on NASA is a bit inaccurate. The real reason it got decreased is because the private sector advances were dwarfing them, probably because the government kept diverting resources away for atmospheric and suborbital defense assistance consistently for so many years they just fell behind on the research and development. So instead the US decided to do what other countries have and just allow private individuals advance it. Launching into space is a very costly affair, very costly. Penn Gillette did a great take on the whole issue. But basically the US government did what it does best, divert funds that were suppose to go to one program into pet projects, killing NASA exploration.

Even though it was both the Dems and Reps responsible for this, Obama is clean on it, it was before he was in office.

[KittenAB]

I leave you with this from a professor for today:

[Alexandra]

your right but I couldn't resist after reading his bs and your also right on NASA but my main point was that nasa isn't shut down and even the shuttle program which is shut down is not Obama's fault which we agree on

[KittenAB]

your right but I couldn't resist after reading his bs and your also right on NASA but my main point was that nasa isn't shut down and even the shuttle program which is shut down is not Obama's fault which we agree on

It actually saddens me a lot to see such a great program forced to spy on other countries just because the government couldn't manage money well. That's why I held onto the information on that in my head, let's hope the private sector here turns out promising advances we've seen them do in other countries. The Virgin guy (who people use to ridicule for this) is showing a very possible launch process that may reduce the price of getting orbital eventually. There are a few others who I have forgotten about, but yeah. There's a chance the space program will thrive in the private sector so long as the government keeps it's claws out of it.

Considering one visit to the moon shot our scientific research and information through the roof, space programs help scientific achievement in ways we see every day. Like superconductors they are experimenting with to replace out rail systems, maglev .... that would be so cool. Viral research that has helped develop vaccines that keep people alive. Space programs are making up for the hole in technological advance left by the Dark Ages.