The Invouluntarily Incontinent Point Of View......

[ThomasInWVa]

Allen, you hit the nail on the head. That why I think there are very, very few real 24/7 AB/DLs out there. I just can't picture someone really going through all this. I think its easier to talk about. Oh I'm sure there are many who play at home or on the weekends and vacation - that sort of thing. But really permnantly trying to be incontinent 24/7, no, I don't think there are that many who have the drive and guts to really do it.

The point I'm trying to get across is that its a self correcting mechanism - lots of people talk a good game but I don't think they really do it. If they do I bet 99 out of 100 don't last more than a couple of days or until it gets to be a cramp in their lifestyle. - Unless of course they get someone else to pay for it and to do all the work.

And if someone does make themself incontinent, goody for them. They get to experience everything just like they wanted and that's just what they deserve.

[allen476]

Allen, you hit the nail on the head. That why I think there are very, very few real 24/7 AB/DLs out there. I just can't picture someone really going through all this. I think its easier to talk about. Oh I'm sure there are many who play at home or on the weekends and vacation - that sort of thing. But really permnantly trying to be incontinent 24/7, no, I don't think there are that many who have the drive and guts to really do it.

The point I'm trying to get across is that its a self correcting mechanism - lots of people talk a good game but I don't think they really do it. If they do I bet 99 out of 100 don't last more than a couple of days or until it gets to be a cramp in their lifestyle. - Unless of course they get someone else to pay for it and to do all the work.

And if someone does make themself incontinent, goody for them. They get to experience everything just like they wanted and that's just what they deserve.

I think in some respect that you are right. Most that have thought about it wouldn't or couldn't make it after it became real work and the novelty wore off. The posts that bother me though are the ones from young adults that I believe really don't know what it is like to be incontinent later on in life nor understand what an incontinent person goes through on a daily basis. My post was directed at them as well as those that are seeking physical ways to make themselves incontinent. I would like them to think about the reality of their desire.

Now don't get me wrong, I am all for 24/7 wearing and if you choose to lose continence when partaking in an AB/DL scene. When one though wants to make the incontinence permanent, they really need to understand and hear both sides of the story and then make a plan on what they want to do. If they do decide after thinking about it to go through with it, then I agree that they get what they deserve.

Allen

[Zander]

XyXy - just thought I'd update on this - I'm not ignoring this topic/your post, I'll reply (or edit this reply) soonish - I've been away for a while so haven't had a chance to check to boards.

OK, here we go - I'll try to respond to your points in order

NB: there is a limitation ont he number of 'quote blocks' you can use, so I've blocked most of the points into the same 'quote' in some instances.

Point 1

..."In what way do you think you are qualified to be suggesting to anyone that they seek professional therapy for wanting to become incontinent? Have you done clinical studies on people that demonstrate a need for professional intervention? Do you have a degree in psychology or medicine? Can you point me to the section in the DSM that this is listed as a problem? My guess, based on my intuition is that you have none."...

Point 2

..."I wonder, have you considered seeking a professional therapist for your problem of encouraging others to seek professional therapists? "...

Point 3

..."The main premise that I disagree with you on is that many or even a substantial portion of people who seek incontinence will not be able to reverse course."...

Point 4

..."In effect, by suggesting that somebody seek professional help for problems that are not really that serious, what one does is dilute the efficacy of the profession."...

Point 5

..."Does this mean that they are in need of professional therapy? Not by itself it doesn't. Now, if they are also having suicidal thoughts, or thinking of harming another person, then we can talk about medical or psychological intervention, because this crosses a line of causing harm to another, and suicidal tendencies often times reflect much deeper and often treatable problems."...

Point 6

..."Finally, you can call it "mental health", or "somebody who is qualified" or whatever you like. We all know what you are referring to, and pitter-patting around trying to be politically correct does not change the essence of what you are suggesting. You are suggesting that a person go to the mental health section of a hospital, and seek out a mental health therapist. By implication, you are suggesting that this person has a mental disorder, that only a "qualified" person can properly assess and possibly treat. That is why people go to mental health, because they have mental disorders. You don't fool me with your attempts to water down these words. What you are referring to is in fact mental health. It is disingenuous for you to try and claim otherwise, and at least some of the other posters don't try to reduce what they are implying. They very clearly say that such people have mental problems, and/or are "a fucking dumbass". You are essentially in the same camp as these people, and sophistry will not serve to separate you."...

RE: Point 1

Your intuition is correct. It is precisely the fact that I don't feel qualified in this regard and that I knew/know of no one else on these boards who is that I make my recommendation that people seriously considering becoming incontinent (by choice) seek help to start with. They may find from their first engagement that nothing further is required and that it is not a problem, but I contend that people seriously considering what is frankly very unusual behaviour should at least engage the process by which a support structure can be provided.

RE: Point 2

Very funny. On a somewhat related note, I will mention I have seen a therapist regarding my ABDL interests (years ago, when I was discovering them). In hindsight the experience was very helpful and worthwhile.

RE: Point 3

I fail to see how this impacts the issue? Unless we know all people will be unsuccessful then is there not significant capacity for harm to that individual (and possibly others they associate with)? Surely prevention is better than cure ... if a cure is even possible in the cases where the individual succeeds in becoming incontinent (and then suffers because of it). As to "It is practically impossible for a healthy individual to get a medical procedure", possibly, but I doubt it. Given money and determination I'd expect its actually quite possible (although you might have to travel and ask a lot of people).

RE: Point 4

Surely this field operates a system of triage and diagnosis? If the issue is not a serious one, would it not be classified as such and dealt with appropriate. Frankly I'd be amazed if this doesn't happen, but.. well you're the expert.

RE: Point 5

Even you have qualified this with "Not by itself it doesn't", so clearly this is not a clear cut issue. You say that "suicidal tendencies often times reflect much deeper and often treatable problems", I'm making the point that someone with tendencies (and a serious likelihood of carrying out an act) to be permamently incontinent may also have much deeper problems. They may not, and in which case my response to your previously quoted point would come into effect - i.e. would it not be triaged out or diagnosed as such.

RE: Point 6

Or perhaps you need to accept that as someone who is not a domain expert, I'm simply using the terminology I know (sometimes incorrectly) in trying to articulate my points. It is because I do not feel qualified to state that they do or do not have mental problems that I suggest they go to someone who can give an answer to that question.

"Considering such a drastic change to your life suggests you have deeper mental health issues" -Zander

"people seriously considering such extreme actions are in need of mental healthcare facilities." -Zander

"I'm not saying you have mental problems, nor that you need mental help. I've never said as such and certainly I didn't mean to imply that either." -Zander

Fair enough, I have chosen a rather poor way of trying to express that last point given the previous replies, let me attempting to put it another way:

"I'm not [intending to say] you have mental problems [and/or] that you need mental help. I'm trying saying that you should engage those professionals who are equipped with the right background and credibility to be able make such a judgement". When it comes to issues such as this, surely the best person to tell you if you need any therapy/medication/etc. is one who works in the field!

[Pootattoo]

Might I suggest someone just post a "Purpose of the Incontinent-Desires Forum" "Sticky",

And maybe create a sub-sub forum for the incontinent people to tell us how we are ruining our lives?

Just sayin'....

[Guest waslost1234abc]

For awhile now I have been reading about those who wish to become incontinent. While I am not saying that you should or shouldn't try the 12 month program and make a very life altering decision, I would like those that are thinking about it to read about what being truly incontinent means. A week in the life of someone that is where you want to be, if I dare say.

To start, a little background on me. I shoveled some wet heavy snow one fine January day here in NY. I was finished and back in the house when my back felt like it was on fire. Took a shower, took some tylenol, and then retreated to the bedroom. All was better 2 days later. Then about a week later, the pain came back and I noticed some parts of my leg were numb to the touch. For about 7 months I worked through it while the pain subsided and the only symptom was the numb spot. Then one day in August I had an exceptionally brutal day at work. That night my back wasn't bothering me but something felt weird. I went to bed as normal but was woken up by the strange feeling of being wet. I had just wet the bed for the first time in my life. Didn't think anything of it and cleaned up the mess. Next night, the same thing happened. The day after that, I wet myself while getting ready for work. I called in sick so that I could call the doctor's office. She did get me in that early afternoon and referred me immediately to a urologist and suggested that I should "get some protection" in the mean time. Went that afternoon to the urologist, and had some really fun tests that saw Mr. Happy get stuff shoved up him that were either negative or inconclusive. He scheduled me for more tests that had to be done in the hospital. None of these tests showed anything.

So here we are, one year after the initial incident, I am wearing diapers 24/7 until I can find out what is causing my incontinence. This next year had me to 2 other urologists, a shrink, and a neurologist. Still nothing. By the middle of the third year, my back pain returned. It had gotten to the point that I could not walk through a store without having to sit down to rest my back. Back to the doctors I go and she has an MRI done on my back. I went a week later to get the results and am shocked by the news. I have a ruptured disc at L5-S1 and a herniated disc at L4-L5 both with nerve root compression. Basically the cause of my incontinence has been found.

So what does my background have anything to do with this? Well I want you to think about my situation and what you are going to put yourself through.

Are you ready for this? Financially, emotionally, physically.

Financially are you able to buy diapers. I use anywhere from 4-8 pullups a day along with 3 abena xplus diapers. Now doing the math, that can be anywhere from a low of $7.50 a day to $12.00 a day just in diapers. Now lets add in rash creme, diaper creme, wipes, and a couple of odds and ends that I have probably forgot and that tacks on an additional $1.00 a day. So at the time of this writing, can you afford $59.50 to $91 a week for this. And if you lose your job are you going to be able to afford it for at least one year with only unemployment payments. There were times when I was unemployed and I had to make a tough choice between food and diapers. And remember that I have to have them, I don't have a choice.

Emotionally can you deal with a lot of different situations that you would not rather have someone know that you are incontinent. How are you going to tell your family? I know how and when you are going to tell them, the first time you have an accident in front of them. How are you going to explain it to them? Does your SO or wife/husband know? What do they think about your desire? Are they going to be there 20+ years later to help you? More than likely they aren't going to be on board with it in the AB/DL aspect, but would not run away screaming either. You will have to come up with a story about slowly losing control (now re-read my background above again about testing). And if you are single, dating is going to be tough. While most will tell you that they are fine with it, they aren't going to be calling you again either. While some relationships can endure, many will fall apart.

Have you thought about being out in public? Are you prepared for the embarrassing accident in the middle of the store, mall, movie theater, etc.? Are you ready to carry around a diaper bag every where you go? I have to carry a backpack that has 4-6 pullups, an abena, a change of clothes, cremes, wipes, and plastic bags to put the soiled diaper in. If the store is busy, then many that come in and out of the bathroom know what I am doing. When I have gone shopping, I have had my diaper bag searched. I have had to buy clothes unexpectedly at a store because my diaper leaked again. I have had rude and insensitive comments when buying diapers and from people that have seen my diaper sticking out above my waistband. I have had comments about poopy diapers as well that weren't very nice.

Work is a little tougher to deal with as well. Many will know about your diapers and be nice to your face about it but are not so nice when you aren't there.

Physically can you deal with the unexpected surge in laundry? The 2am changing of your bed because you had too much to drink? Having to rinse out plastic pants daily? I have 2 pairs of plastic pants that I have to rinse out daily along with 1 additional load of laundry a week that I have to do. Sheets get washed at least weekly but are usually every 3-4 days. And remember that I have been doing this awhile and when this all began, I was washing sheets and clothes daily. I have got leaks under control fairly well but there is the accident that happens. Then there is having to clean furniture, carpeting, and bedding because you leaked. Are you ready to throw out your Saturday night plans because you have to spend some time cleaning up because you "forgot" to change? How are you planning on dealing with diaper rash? I can tell you that it is very painful and doesn't go away fast.

So go ahead and go on the 12 month program. I am not going to stop you. I would like you too think about the flip side of it. While the desire of incontinence might be strong, I would suggest to wear 24/7 for at least 3 years before doing anything else. I want you to do everything as normal except you pee and poop in your diaper. Then go to your parents house ( and friends houses) and use only your diapers. I want you to poop in front of them. I want you to have an accident in front of them. I want you go to a crowded store and poop your diaper in the furthest possible point away from the bathrooms. See if you can make it to the bathroom without some of the poop coming out. I want you to go out for a nice romantic night with your SO and have to go home in the middle of it because you leaked out on your clothes. I want you to go into your bosses office and poop in front of him while asking him a question. I want you to have an accident in front of your co-workers. I want you to hear all of the taunts, comments, and rudeness that goes with this. I want you to take 6 months of the 3 years and have to decide every other week if you are going to buy food or diapers.

So in the end you have a choice. Either stay in control and wear diapers, even 24/7 if that makes you happy. Or you can lose control and possibly find out what I just told you. It is your choice but I beg you to think about it.

I know that this will probably either get me banned or flamed. I would like to see it pinned below the 12 month program post but know that there is only a slim chance of that happening. If you are truly incontinent and have something to add, please feel free.

Allen

all i have to say is allen told my story quite well. being fully urinary and fecal incontinent like me and allen life deffinitily isnt the same, thats for sure. i did want to point out that i sincerely doubt that most people would want to be fecal incontinent. wearing a diaper can hide pee most of the time and the smell is usually not too strong. pooping in your diaper is generally very noticeable and can get you outed real quick. most people are generally respectful but there are plenty of people including children with out filters who are inclined to say something. especially if they have a sibling in diapers. so any how when people talk about it, they want the urinary incontinence while making do with poppy fantasies instead of the real thing. even still urinary incontinence especially when its severe is enough to deal with on its own and at the very least the op should spend some quality time around some one who is incontinent. see what they go through...

just a quick story...the other day i was on the way to pick up my daughter at my moms because i was out job hunting and dont have child care yet. i get off the bus and as im walking to her house. my bowel released and my diaper was loaded fairly well. when i got to the house i realized she wasnt home and had to wait for 30 mins before she got home. she had been out with her caregiver. she opens the door and i quickly head to the bathroom to go change. on the way to the bathroom my moms caregiver opines that it smelled like my daughter was poopy(2 year old not potty trained) i said to hold on a minute and i would check her. of course when i got back to check her she was clean which means she was smelling my poopy diaper. i mentioned that she was clean....too my horror she goes " did u poop in your diaper...she giggled for a second and then said just kidding" as far as i know she was just kidding and doesnt know of my issues or its possible my mom told her.

[babykeiff]

The OP has a very valid point which I completely and totally agree with....... HOWEVER, although we may not agree with some people who wish to become incontinent, they have the right to chose, and equality means that we MUST accept their choice. This sub-forum 'Incontinent Desires' exists for that purpose.