Trolls

[Guest Katharsys]

I have put in my two cents before on this topic (in many thread, many times in the past), and I will do so yet again.

I would say to the moderators and the owners of the site - can't you see the uproar that a single troll causes? You have person after person begging you to remove someone for their behavior, and the most common response is "Well, it is the internet. Get over it, don't take it to heart, etc." - all the same responses over and over from people literally begging someone to take action to preserve the community.

No offense here to both Repaid and Di, but I mean what is the point of having a moderator if you won't take action? Walla is right in this case - you all sometimes hold back until the ban hammer is long overdue. You say "ignore them and they will go away" - well, I hate to break it to you, and in case you haven't noticed in the years moding the site - that is not human nature. No matter how many times you say it, it isn't going to happen and is akin to putting your fingers in your ear, screwing your eyes shut and going "lalalala" at the top of you lungs.

I understand that both Repaid and Di believe in free speech - positive, negative and indifferent - but there is a difference between free speech and running into a theater to scream "fire". Or an even better example - how about I stand on the sidewalk outside your house, with a bright neon green placard reading "pedo live here", yelling at the top of my lungs that a pedo lives in your house? What would you do? It is free speech right? No - you would take action to both stop that lie from being spread about you, and attempt to stop the humiliation you feel in front of the other members of your community. But what action do you take?

Would you come out and take a swing, and risk getting charged with assault and arrested yourself? Call the cops or would you just ignore me as I quite intentionally humiliated you in your community?

How is that so different than what is happening on this board? We take swings (our responses to troll postings) because we have called the cops so many times and they have done nothing (the admins failing to take care of the problem) all the while the cops telling us just to ignore the ass out on the street.

However, do you know what the cops would do in my hypothetical case? Arrest the person for causing a public disturbance, taking him away - and giving you the ammo that you would need to get a restraining order against me to keep you away from your house. You would be working within the strictures of the law, and all because the cops actually did their jobs...

[Repaid1]

Okay enough with the analogies. Go back to the OP and see what this topic was started on now go through each post and count those for the Ban Hammer and those that say "move on".

Tally the score. Now take into consideration I have never said "It's just the internet...Blah..Blah.." You'll see that it's pretty much always close to a tie or favors the ones that aren't offended.

So to here a few of you say it, "We" aren't doing our job? Where's the Job? Who's done something wrong. What's a troll to you? Why are you offended by what they say? Site specific (in Private if you must) why you think any person on this site needs a warning. How do you know that they haven't been given a warning? Can you see there private messages, can you see their warn meter?

The simple fact is some people are just thin skinned and some aren't. If perhaps I have missed a post or two that may be relevant to your argument then by all means site it. But when two people complain and 5 tell them to drop the issue, then pretty much there isn't a global problem on the site. Just a few that can't seem to get along.

I have put people on time out and I have deleted accounts and now I have banned someone or two or three. Until you see the actual ban hammer on their posts you have no clue what has been done up to that point.

I really get tired of people saying nothing is being done. When the simple thing is you have no clue, other than you don't get your way. Like I said if you can show me a post or thread that violates site policy or someones "right" on this site then by all means post it and say something. But just saying you don't agree with something another has said or you don't agree with their version of this lifestyle isn't reason for me to take any action.

Common sense is a uncommon virtue/ Some people have common sense, some don't in between that are the Moderators. And no your Donations to this site or lack of do not influence my decision. Well at least in the monetary sense of donation. It is your actions within posts that contribute to the over all community and your ranking within this society.

If you feel that some injustice has been done, then please speak up (such as this thread) but the he said...she said shit isn't working.

[Nat]

So when do you delete accounts?

[Missy Q]

So when do you delete accounts?

Apparently never. It seems the only weapon of the [DD] moderator is harsh language and big words.

[Repaid1]

So when do you delete accounts?

I actually delete them daily, It's in the weekly address of the site.

[Guest Katharsys]

Three things:

First, apparently I hijacked this thread unintentionally, and my apologies to the OP. The OPs advice is good, and the right thing to do. I hope that others will also use the tools as mentioned.

Secondly, let me apologize here to both Repaid and DI for some of my hijacking. DI has done a wonderful job in creating a community that people can use for free, and donate to when they can. I applaud him for that, and for the mere fact that I want a place to where myself and others can come to to be ourselves - or a place where others can come asking questions and seeking answers - is why I stay and support when I can. Additionally, Repaid does take action when enough voices are raised, and he honestly tries his best to be fair to the community as a whole. His is not an easy job, but he does the best as he can.

This is one area I guess where the Admin/Mods and I will never see eye to eye on - in terms of the speed of action and the levels of response. However, for my writing previously, once again I think my fingers engaged before my brain did. I still am still skittish about the response times stemming from before. I know a lot more is being done that we can't see, but it is the fact that we can't see it is what is irritating.

Lastly, in answer to Spokane Girl and Goden - Just recently in fact a troll that was popping up in both the forums and in the chat was given the banhammer and the account deleted. I think that some of us were hoping it would have happened much quicker than it did, the fact of the matter is it still happened.

</hijack>

[Nat]

I actually delete them daily, It's in the weekly address of the site.

Why do you delete them daily?

Are they from bots or are they accounts that have been inactive for a while or if you don't like someone, you just delete them?

[Nat]

Lastly, in answer to Spokane Girl and Goden - Just recently in fact a troll that was popping up in both the forums and in the chat was given the banhammer and the account deleted. I think that some of us were hoping it would have happened much quicker than it did, the fact of the matter is it still happened.

</hijack>

Who was the user?

Gwen bear?

[WallaWalla]

I really get tired of people saying nothing is being done. When the simple thing is you have no clue, other than you don't get your way. Like I said if you can show me a post or thread that violates site policy or someones "right" on this site then by all means post it and say something. But just saying you don't agree with something another has said or you don't agree with their version of this lifestyle isn't reason for me to take any action.

Hey, I'm sorry that my post came off like 'nothing is being done.' As, what I was actually posting in response to was the idea that 'anyone could be a troll.' I don't think this is hard to figure out if you draw the line in the right places. People who choose to ignore a reasonable threshold and basic forum etiquette(regardless of the content of their posts, it's important to put them in the right topic, etc.), can safely be picked out as troublemakers if they do so on a consistent basis.

I mean really, I felt that I approached this topic in the least personal manner. As well, I don't have any personal issue with what anyone on this board has to offer on any particular argument. Rather, I do have experience moderating message boards somewhere in the realm of about 5 years now, and I do see some cases where [what at least appears to be] a lax policy can a disruption to the general order of the message boards. No, that doesn't make me an expert. I'm not saying anything like, 'I know better than you.' Also, I'm definitely not trying to tell you what to do. I was just offering input on what I perceived to be your stance on the policy on the basis of the response you offered to Goden.

And well, that's been offered now, so I'm out.

[sarah_ab]

i rather enjoy the trolls.. i actually tried my hand at trolling a few days ago with a post (now deleted by myself)..

it started as a joke in the chatroom, where i explained that i didn't think i even knew how to troll, so it was explained to me.. and i created a post... unfortunately i am apparently too well liked, so many people tried to give me the benefit of the doubt.

but i will say this.. trolls provide just countless hours of reading entertainment, and allow us to get out our agression and anger in an anonymous fake environment, so we don't have to take it out on those who are actually important to us in our real lives... by real lives, i mean those we are supposed to have away from the computer, you know people you physically know in real life, and see and talk to, not just online....

so anyway,.. i say, let the trolls stay, anyone who actually lets the trolls gets to them needs to learn to relax.

And to repaid.. maybe if you weren't so busy booting certain members from chat rooms ... well you see where i'm going with this

but no in all seriousness, i've said it before and i will say it again, IF YOU THINK YOU CAN RUN A SITE BETTER THEN GO CREATE YOUR OWN AND STOP FUCKING COMPLAINING

[Sojourner]

Sorry, I don't have the income to spend on a website full of people I've never met. Also, does my word or my opinion mean nothing until I've given away my money? That's quite sad.

True and wholly appropriate here are the words "Nothing ventured, nothing gained".

[Missy Q]

IF YOU THINK YOU CAN RUN A SITE BETTER THEN GO CREATE YOUR OWN AND STOP FUCKING COMPLAINING

Please specify where in the last few pages where I have stated that I can/think I can run a website better than this, beacuse I don't remember doing such. 

Seriously, what the fuck.

I think the majority of us can come to an agreement that there is some very questionable users on this forum. Wether they be trolls, spammers, or what have you. What I am doing is brining the topic to the attention of the public in hopes something will be done about it. I'm just getting extremely frustrated and ticked off that time and time again I get shot down when I'm only asking for some of these trolls to be given justice. Never have I ever seen a forum that has such difficulty in getting rid of trouble-making user(s). The only logical conclusion I can come to is that they're welcomed here. What the hell is with this forum? Why do you bother having rules, regulations, and moderations and administrators if nothing is ever done about anything. I just don't understand it. 

Now go ahead and make paragraphs about how dumb and wrong I am. 

[Repaid1]

Why do you delete them daily?

Are they from bots or are they accounts that have been inactive for a while or if you don't like someone, you just delete them?

I delete them for a variety of reasons, usually underage. But I have not nor will not delete users or use my status as a personal issue with someone on this site. That should be blatantly obvious with this thread alone! Other than that some of the reasons you stated. As for my recent Public Knowledge ban, The member asked to be removed, caused a bit too much chaos and hatred amongst too many members. And basically over all I felt this person(s) had no valued reason to be on this site. I don't like double talk and with nothing being good about the whole situation I removed their account.

That being said, I wanted to just put them in a time out status. But when I kicked them from chat, they continued to harass members. Constantly logging back in without any regard to others or myself. When it got to the point of me kicking them out of chat 10 or so times while I tried to put them in time out, I deleted the account.

I already know they created another account on the site, and if "they" choose to create another than so be it. If they can come here and act like they have a lick of sense, then I have no problem with it. But to come on here and disrupt the site as a whole and to fragrantly disrespect members and not abide by a moderators action. Well that gets the Ban Hammer.

And To Goden: Your not Dumb, Just ignorant, there is a difference. In another 18 years you'll probably understand why life is what it is.

[Nat]

i rather enjoy the trolls.. i actually tried my hand at trolling a few days ago with a post (now deleted by myself)..

it started as a joke in the chatroom, where i explained that i didn't think i even knew how to troll, so it was explained to me.. and i created a post... unfortunately i am apparently too well liked, so many people tried to give me the benefit of the doubt.

but i will say this.. trolls provide just countless hours of reading entertainment, and allow us to get out our agression and anger in an anonymous fake environment, so we don't have to take it out on those who are actually important to us in our real lives... by real lives, i mean those we are supposed to have away from the computer, you know people you physically know in real life, and see and talk to, not just online....

so anyway,.. i say, let the trolls stay, anyone who actually lets the trolls gets to them needs to learn to relax.

And to repaid.. maybe if you weren't so busy booting certain members from chat rooms ... well you see where i'm going with this

but no in all seriousness, i've said it before and i will say it again, IF YOU THINK YOU CAN RUN A SITE BETTER THEN GO CREATE YOUR OWN AND STOP FUCKING COMPLAINING

I have tried trolling back in January but not here of course. Of course when I post troll questions on Yahoo Answers, I was getting good replies and I would feel guilty because they used their time to make a good response to my question and they had no idea they were replying to a troll. But at least they got their two points. I also trolled another forum and people took it well and I think they eventually figured out I was a troll so I lost my posting privileges. I have trolled on two hate sites which is where trolling is allowed and I don't really count it as my trolling because it's allowed on those forums since it's freedom of speech, they just don't allow spamming. Then there was one politic site I tried trolling on and I also keep forgetting to mention that because my friend did most of the trolling there using my account and I got banned and I didn't care because I had no interest in the forum. I did it because he wanted me too and I didn't want to anymore so he asked for my password and I gave it to him and he did the trolling by spamming the forum by taking my posts from another forum and posting them there.

But I have learned when you say you like to troll or have trolled before, people can think you are trolling here or trolled here or may think you're a troll which I think is stupid. I just don't see the connection there and the logic to that assumption. You can be a troll on one site but not a troll on another site if you are a regular there and posting normally. But people are stupid.

But trolling isn't really my thing. I get bored of it quickly when I do it. Sure I have posted dumb threads on a forum I am a regular on like "Do toys come to life?" and some members played along by saying their toys are alive. I considered that trolling I did but it was harmless. It didn't hurt anyone or really break the rules. If you want to take "No trolling" literal, then I did break the rule.

I delete them for a variety of reasons, usually underage. But I have not nor will not delete users or use my status as a personal issue with someone on this site. That should be blatantly obvious with this thread alone! Other than that some of the reasons you stated. As for my recent Public Knowledge ban, The member asked to be removed, caused a bit too much chaos and hatred amongst too many members. And basically over all I felt this person(s) had no valued reason to be on this site. I don't like double talk and with nothing being good about the whole situation I removed their account.

That being said, I wanted to just put them in a time out status. But when I kicked them from chat, they continued to harass members. Constantly logging back in without any regard to others or myself. When it got to the point of me kicking them out of chat 10 or so times while I tried to put them in time out, I deleted the account.

I already know they created another account on the site, and if "they" choose to create another than so be it. If they can come here and act like they have a lick of sense, then I have no problem with it. But to come on here and disrupt the site as a whole and to fragrantly disrespect members and not abide by a moderators action. Well that gets the Ban Hammer.

And To Goden: Your not Dumb, Just ignorant, there is a difference. In another 18 years you'll probably understand why life is what it is.

Whew, that's good to hear. I was worried there you delete anyone's accounts and I was hoping you would never touch mine. On another forum, a mad mod deleted my account and my old one and my husband's so all my posts had gone too and it was like I never even existed on the forum ever. I never knew why she did it but I pissed her off just because I disagreed with her so she got pissed at me and sent me a final warning and it upset me and then she decided to change my password and email so I can't login my account and she did it again after the admin reset my password and then she did it to my husband's account when I was posting under it to see if the same error happens again and it did. But luckily my husband only made one post so it didn't matter if his account got deleted and he didn't care about his account and he wasn't going to the forum or even planned on posting there. So then she decided to delete my account around February 5th and she got fired. The admin banned her for a few hours and then unbanned her.

I think when the under age join, I think you should at least ban them until they are 18 and then their ban is uplifted. No need to delete them.

But one part that confused me was when you said people who log back without any regard to others or to yourself. What is that supposed to mean?

I know I come here sometimes and not post because I had nothing to contribute. I sure hope that doesn't look bad to you when I do that.

[sarah_ab]

i think he means when he deletes an account, and people just make a new account, this comes before an ip ban.. when just the account is deleted, these people think it is ok to just create a different account and continue with the same behavior...

[Yvhuce]

Have they refined IP bans since the last incarnation of Wikipedia? I've found myself IP banned a lot of times on there, and the cause always turned out to be another user who happened to have the same IP address...

[Repaid1]

Have they refined IP bans since the last incarnation of Wikipedia? I've found myself IP banned a lot of times on there, and the cause always turned out to be another user who happened to have the same IP address...

That tends to happen a lot when people use a proxy Server such as with services like AOL. So no they haven't fixed anything yet. With the service I have i can simply click a request on screen and be issued a new I.P. With most Cable modem services, you can simply unplug the modem and wait 15 seconds or so and when it logs into your I.S.P. it will issue a new I.P. anyway.

[Repaid1]

Actually it was in reference to when someone is kicked from chat. If you were told to take a time out and leave, but didn't then your kicked from the chat. Don't try to continuously log back into chat 10 times or so after being warned and Kicked. I couldn't log into the system and put them on time out (Cancels your chat privileges) fast enough because I had to keep going back to chat to re-kick them. It was a bit too much. It's a site for Adults and when the time comes to act like one, You should heed the warnings. Trust me there will generally be plenty of warnings/conversation before stuff like this happens. If you choose not to listen then the punishments will only get worse.

[sarah_ab]

Actually it was in reference to when someone is kicked from chat. If you were told to take a time out and leave, but didn't then your kicked from the chat. Don't try to continuously log back into chat 10 times or so after being warned and Kicked.

what???? huh???? did you mention something????