Should Ab'S/Dl'S Go Public

[Frogboy]

I was reading this thread and it got me thinking about trying to be openly AB/DL for TV programmes. It strikes me that the problem is threefold. If you openly discuss being AB/DL on a TV show etc, then you open yourself up to a tirade of persecution, hatred and bullying for not being "normal". If you go on said shows with your face/voice masked, then the so called "normals" will use the defence that if our way of life is normal, why are we hiding. If no body does anything, then the wider society will never know how big the AB/DL community is, and will never have the chance to accept it.

On the flip side to this, why are AB/DL's so hungry for acceptance? I know I'm fairly unique in the fact that when I told my wife, she loved the idea... But thats as far as I'd ever want to go with regards to acceptance. I don't care what the wider society think about diaper wearing. It makes me happy, it doesn't harm anyone, so why should I stop. In the same way I would never seek acceptance on other aspects of my life, I don't have any urge to be accepted by the general public. What is it about diaper wearing/adult babyism that AB/DL's are trying make acceptable to the "normals".

On a side note... this thread got me thinking too. When the nonces in dog collars stop fiddling with kids... the church can then open discussions on infantalism (which doesn't harm anyone! quite the opposite in fact!)

Just a rant/thought provoking thread. I mean no offense to anyone on here... feel free to comment!!!

Frogboy

[Aleia]

It's a huge mistake to blame intolerance on so-called "right-wing extremists" (which doesn't even mean anything anymore, since liberals have taken to slapping that label on anyone and everyone who disagrees with their ideas). Liberals, conservatives and moderates ALL give bizarre lifestyles a hard time. Have you turned on a TV lately? Hollywood (which is run by leftists) is the world's marrow of stereotypes and ridicule. Can you imagine the field day they'd have with ABDLs? Let's not even get into the mainstream news media (also liberal). The news cameras don't care about normal, functional ABDLs like us--they only publish stories about the perverted bottom feeders.

[acemanner]

Yeah , I think were ok were we are.

We're just too easy to group in with the pedofiles, rapists, and all other sorts of "evil" the government and media has made.

[Aleia]

Anyway, to answer the actual question, I don't want this fetish to go public. As I've said in other threads, we have a lot more privacy and dignity here on the periphery than we would otherwise. Besides, the last thing I want is for ABDL to become a polarizing, political matter.

It sounds like most ABDLs would rather not be seen, and I'm pretty sure most non-ABDLs would rather not see us if they had the choice. Everyone's just happier this way.

[freswith]

It has been said that witchhunts are a symptom of a society which is facing greater difficulties and suffering great frustration from them; the frustration and aggression turn inwards to attack the weakest members of society.

Our society is somewhat overfaced at the moment, and there is no obvious escape route. There is a great need for witches to act as scapegoats. Paedophiles have been used to fill this role, and there is plenty of fear and frustration still available to mount an attack on us. (Not just from the right wing, Abrera, I think you are very confused about right and left)

The normal proponents will be otherwise failed politicians and media persons. Much of the present paedophile scare came from Esther Rantzen as she was on the way down from her media dominance. We have a vast supply of politicians in the UK who are in dread of the next election, and the chance to open fire on a tiny, defenceless (and generally repugnant) minority would be an absolute godsend for them. Search warrants served on some AB suppliers would keep the police off the streets and out of trouble for years to come. Look what they did to the paedophiles with their "Operation Ore", and the legislation which makes it an offence to look at pictures. At the last count there have been forty suicides.

I think this would be a very, very bad time to stick our heads over the parapet. I am more than happy to remain in the closet and will resent any bloody fool who tries to publicise us and try to "gain acceptance".

[tommee]

We have a vast supply of politicians in the UK who are in dread of the next election, and the chance to open fire on a tiny, defenceless (and generally repugnant) minority would be an absolute godsend for them. Search warrants served on some AB suppliers would keep the police off the streets and out of trouble for years to come. Look what they did to the paedophiles with their "Operation Ore", and the legislation which makes it an offence to look at pictures. At the last count there have been forty suicides.

I think this would be a very, very bad time to stick our heads over the parapet. I am more than happy to remain in the closet and will resent any bloody fool who tries to publicise us and try to "gain acceptance".

Spot on. When I see what a tiny minority of our tiny minority is getting attention for, I am surprised we aren't harassed even more than we are. Why do we even need attention? It's not like we can't vote, or own property. Surely approaching a significant other who hasn't had an opinion forced on them by politicians, religions and the media regarding this fetish, is much easier to deal with than one who has.

A good example of a reason to keep quiet is the fuss that's been made over violent pornography in the UK. A media frenzy has been whipped up over a sub genre of bondage which barely exists. These are the actions of a morally bankrupt government, pretty much fabricating something to appear tough on it. See http://www.backlash-uk.org.uk/ for more info.

We've made our closet a pretty comfortable place to be, why invite the arseholes in?

[Brutal]

I was reading this thread and it got me thinking about trying to be openly AB/DL for TV programmes. It strikes me that the problem is threefold. If you openly discuss being AB/DL on a TV show etc, then you open yourself up to a tirade of persecution, hatred and bullying for not being "normal". If you go on said shows with your face/voice masked, then the so called "normals" will use the defence that if our way of life is normal, why are we hiding. If no body does anything, then the wider society will never know how big the AB/DL community is, and will never have the chance to accept it.

On the flip side to this, why are AB/DL's so hungry for acceptance? I know I'm fairly unique in the fact that when I told my wife, she loved the idea... But thats as far as I'd ever want to go with regards to acceptance. I don't care what the wider society think about diaper wearing. It makes me happy, it doesn't harm anyone, so why should I stop. In the same way I would never seek acceptance on other aspects of my life, I don't have any urge to be accepted by the general public. What is it about diaper wearing/adult babyism that AB/DL's are trying make acceptable to the "normals".

On a side note... this thread got me thinking too. When the nonces in dog collars stop fiddling with kids... the church can then open discussions on infantalism (which doesn't harm anyone! quite the opposite in fact!)

Just a rant/thought provoking thread. I mean no offense to anyone on here... feel free to comment!!!

Frogboy

You know, it makes me think about activism in general. It wasn't until the 60's that the gay movement really started and it's 40 years later and some significant progress has been made. But it's been at a pretty steep cost for many individuals who decided to stand up for their rights.

The g/l/b/t community was and is significantly much larger than the ABDL community and always has been. Depending on who's stats you read and believe, anywhere from 5 to 10% of the population is g/l/b/t and they form a real powerhouse of voting power. Compare that to the (MAYBE OVERESTIMATED) 0.5% of people who are ABDL?

ABDL's also lack the economic and political cohesion that the G/L/B/T community has.

It's misunderstood as "transferred pedophilia" and a number of other less than socially acceptable behaviors.

One of the other caveats is that unlike the GLBT community, ABDL's don't exhibit any visible behaviors of their orientation. While it is VERY WRONG to stereotype, how many members of the gay community can subdue their mannerisms or speech full time? Certainly not 90% of the population. Correct me if I am wrong. My intention is not to be a hate monger or a stereotyper here.

The reason I bring the above point up, is that ABDL's can control their outward behavior. Most of the lifestyle happens behind closed doors. You'd never know I am a daddy unless you knew me personally or had Daddy-Dar (ABDL heightened awareness similar to the fabled "Gar-Dar").

So because you can control your behavior and mask what society deems as socially unacceptable or undesirable behavior... the premise is that "you should" by the judgemental types.

In the USA, it's also interesting that the BDSM community and S&M community pretty much shun ABDL's to a large extend (again not all, but it happens quiet frequently). So we are always dealing with the "my kink is okay, but yours is not". Unlike the GBLT community, we don't have the same mainstream acceptance in those groups. If we did, we'd have powerful allies, but because of our lower numbers, we'd be marching to the beat of their drums and their agendas.

The MAIN key question is "What can be gained?"

In my opinion, coming out to the WORLD gains you nothing. Should you have to hide your true nature? Nope. Now if want to go out and be the martyr for the cause of ABDL acceptance, fine.

Half the problem is that the community shoots itself in the damn foot. While I have seen and heard some GREAT interviews, the people stepping up for the talk shows aren't exactly posterkids for our cause.

Acceptance isn't going to happen unless you have individuals that can appeal to the masses and who are at the very least appealing in their presentation.

Unfortunately we get the extreme end of the spectrum.

Instead of the obese guy who comes out dressed like a sissy and shits himself on stage for a horrified crowd, I think we need some of the cute models from Xtreme Diaper and Baby-doll to come out and do the talk shows.

But alas, that's not going to happen. So our community is often represented by the lunatic fringe of the community with very little appeal to the masses. Hate me if you want to, but that is how I see it.

Is it right that we should have to have more positive PR and good looking people? I agree it's shallow. But that is what it is going to take if the community wants to gain mainstream acceptance. Because like it or not, unless you appeal to mainstream america in a way that doesn't set them on edge and makes them immediately unreceptive... nothing is going to change.

Personally, I have no burning desire to share what goes on in my bedroom with the greater world at large. My family knows and some close friends know, but thats about it and that is the way I think it should be for me.

If others want to go out and push the "We're big babies, don't stare at us or treat us differently!" and fail to realize that people are going to do exactly that,.. then power to them. BUt they are going to worry about whether or not you are going to shit and stink up the room, if you are going to piss yourself and question your manhood - and your ability to be a functional part of society, the workplace and the world at large.

My kid acts like a little girl, but she uses adult language. When women do it, society thinks it's cute, even sexy. There are tons of "school girl" fantasies in mainstream porn. But have you noticed that there aren't any school boy fantasies out there?

At worst women are going to be thought of as "immature" or trying to hold on to their youth too long. Kinda of like the grandma's who try to dress like their teen daughters.

Men will get a less positive reception. At best, they will be seen as immature. At worst, freaks and mentally unbalanced individuals who might molest your kids. I don't think it's right, but it's what I've seen from personal observations.

Take the recent HBO Real Sex episode (okay, not so recent). The hookers at the brothel laughed and rolled their eyes. The media was definitely slanted. And he wasn't the best looking guy out there in my opinion. Yes, I'm being shallow. But in the real world you have about 15 seconds for someone to form an opinion of you. And I think the guy missed the mark.

Part of the problem has to do with the "elitist" within the community. Since they aren't stepping up, the desperate masses who aren't up to the challenge attempt to. But there is no impetus for us to come out because why should they? They usually have everything we want and don't want to destroy our lives to fight a hopeless battle.

I know that what I am writing is going to touch a nerve in a lot of people. But there is no point in trying to force the world to accept your sexual fetish. What would you gain?

Nada. So there is no reason to put your resources behind it.

Reality sucks, but that's my view of it.

-Brutal

[BriGuy]

Those who actually have no experience with going out into public should keep their speculation to themselves. I have gone into public, I have represented the community in a way that is positive and you would not believe the reactions I have received. But hey, ya'll think what you want to think and mull around in your barrel of self pity for lack of acceptance. I have had people from both the left and right come up, shake my hand, and comment on how much guts it must take to do what we have done. Then it is followed by a series of questions and answers for which they are informed. Both parties leave with more knowledge and no harm was done. I don't need to gain acceptance for who I am from anyone, but spreading knowledge and information while being myself has been very rewarding.

~Brian

P.s. People are stepping up Tommee, I think you are very off point in the assumption of the "elitist"

[Jabez]

What Brutal said, was pretty much on the mark for me as well. For the most part, (meaning, if it had yet to become the target of talks shows, plots, etc) I do not think that the community should go public. But seeing how there are always going to be crazy retards that go and do something stupid to make the rest of us look bad, then it wouldn't be a bad idea if it were approached in a more educated manner. Seeing as we have had a lot of negative light on our community, it would not hurt for some positive light to be shed on it. Talk shows are definitely not the way to go about it, especially since most of them are trash anyways. Depending on the person and how the topic is approached, going public can be done in a positive way, as BriGuy experienced. But basically that is going to depend on how the message is delivered and how accepting the other person is. But that's just the way I view it. Everybody that I felt needed to know, I told. Anybody else... who cares? What difference does it make to me? It's not like I'm gonna parade around town in a shirt and diapers.

[Aleia]

BriGuy, I'm pretty sure any statements about "normal society" are void in your state.

Whether or not the average person "likes" us at present, I fail to see the point of looking for public acceptance. We aren't a persecuted, hated minority--that would involve non-ABDLs actually caring about this issue, which a thundering majority of them do not. Even people who think we're a bunch of sickos have much better things to do with their lives than form anti-ABDL coalitions and try to ban the sale of adult diapers to people who don't need them. ABDLs have no use for the self-pitying victim mentality except to get sympathy and attention (although you're more likely to just get laughed at).

It's not like ABDL is the sum of my identity, anyway. I'm a lot of things before I'm an ABDL: I'm an American, a Christian, a woman, a daughter, a sister, a girlfriend, a student, a musician, and many other things--I have plenty of claims to the heart of society. Only by allowing a peculiar fetish to consume your entire life do you trap yourself in the margins.

[Brutal]

Those who actually have no experience with going out into public should keep their speculation to themselves. I have gone into public, I have represented the community in a way that is positive and you would not believe the reactions I have received. But hey, ya'll think what you want to think and mull around in your barrel of self pity for lack of acceptance. I have had people from both the left and right come up, shake my hand, and comment on how much guts it must take to do what we have done. Then it is followed by a series of questions and answers for which they are informed. Both parties leave with more knowledge and no harm was done. I don't need to gain acceptance for who I am from anyone, but spreading knowledge and information while being myself has been very rewarding.

~Brian

P.s. People are stepping up Tommee, I think you are very off point in the assumption of the "elitist"

Kudos if you want to go out and do it. I'm not against other people wanting to do that and be out conveying a positive message if they are capable. Obviously you are. As for the rest of my comments... well I'm not chaning my opinion about it. I don't think we have enough positive people capable of promoting the community. And there is absolutely no gain in it for me and (I suspect) very many others out there.

As for being a person who doesn't go out in public, I don't need to be in a train wreck to know it's best avoided. I've actually met AB's who were out in public, seen the reactions. I haven't got a need to wear diapers in public because I'm a daddy, not a switch sub/dom. I do have a "daddy shirt" t-shirt but it can be taken in any connotation. Most think it's just because I got it for fathers day. Again, I'm not for public disclosure.

That said, my hats off to you for your work and dedication. It takes balls and grats to you for being able to pull it off.

I still maintain that the majority of press we get is bad and that overall we have a very small minority screwing it up for the rest of us.

-Brutal

PS. I'm curious, where was the photo taken? It looks like the vegas strip.

[Honu]

Wow! This has been a very interesting thread. It ranges from politics in the UK to speculation on public perception. I'm very comfortable laying low and flying under the radar. The biggest thing I think that we as a community have to fight is the misperception that what we enjoy has anything to do with those who have not reached the age of consent. This site is one of the largest in our community, and like most of the others it is very vocal about not accepting minors. For as open as this site is to those who are gay, tranvestite (sissy) and transexual; it is very closed to minors. I applaud that and wish the general public accepted that our activity is strickly between consenting adults. I don't care that so many people don't understand why I would want to wear diapers or enjoy using them. I don't even care if they think that is sicko. I do care that anyone would think I want to do something that is as extremely illegal and horribly immoral as pedophilia.

Mahalo for letting me express my 2 cents in this open discussion.

[curiositykilledthecat]

Good question, why is everyone so eager for acceptance? Who cares what people think!

[Mary-Ann]

I myself has not any reason to go have every one knowing about abdl. I haven't seen any talk show or tv about us. I know there is. psychiatrist would love to make a disorder that is for certain . I think what brutal said is right . I did see one bad comment on a webpage about adult cribs . then the lady reccomendedthe abdl crib company even so calling us those crazy peoples called adult babies

I want my diaper and my blanket and stuff toys

I know I bin babbling I hope its understandable

[sarah_ab]

personally, being ab is a sexual fetish and i've no need for the rest of the world to accept my sexual fetish.

so really i dont care if people go out and 'represent' the ab community or not... i dont care if there is complete public awareness or not, because i'm still not gonna tell everyone what i do in the bedroom.

[Frogboy]

Wow, some very strong responses to this thread! It does seem that the majority of AB/DLs are quite happy to continue behind closed doors... Content enough with themselves and their choice to be an AB/DL to not need greater approval.

Fair play to BriGuy for getting out there. That takes some serious courage and I respect that!

Thanks to everyone for your comments and views!

Frogboy

[Yvhuce]

Good question, why is everyone so eager for acceptance? Who cares what people think!

The desire to be accepted is a natural part of being a social animal. Acceptance into the larger group = better chance of survival, whether you're predator, prey, or both. Too much lack of acceptance can be detrimental to the mental health of the individual.

The only good publicity I can think of would be if perhaps there was an ABDL charity group or something like that. But they'd have to tone it down. No visible diapers. Probly only diapers under more normal clothing or something, so's to not scare off the people they're trying to help.

[Dougie]

This whole conversation reminds me of what's going on right now for sport bikes. They are seen as an evil machine, yet some great people ride them. There are the few asses that ruin it for the many. The majority of riders would give you the shirt off their back if you truly needed it. I started a group that collects and delivers trauma bears to fire houses and police stations. They pass them out to kids that have been through a really rough experience. It's one of the many good things that us riders do for others.

I'm not an ABDL but I do wear diapers. I think acceptance will need to come on a much more discrete level. If the freaks and attention whores will lay low the general public will be tolerant of adults in diapers, medically required or not, because the majority of the baby-boomers are beginning to have health issues that require some kind of medical intervention. The kids and grandkids of those people are being desensitized about incontinence in one form or another. It's not being viewed as just a baby thing anymore. It's beginning to be viewed as a necessary evil that they need to cope with. To most non-incontinent people adult pull-ups underwear and adult diapers are the same thing. They help people with bladder problems to continue living life as most everyone else can.

I used to travel a lot, and I always worried about leaving a wet diaper in the trashcan of a hotel. I was concerned that the staff might say something rude to me about it. On the contrary, most of the hotel staff didn't know, or didn't care. I had one very motherly hotel manager tell me where I could find a pharmacy if should I need more medical supplies. I must have turned a very deep shade of red. I asked her why she would say that to me. She said someone on the hotel staff mentioned it to her earlier that day. She instructed them to keep their mouths shut because I was a customer. She told me her daughter was 16, and still wets the bed. There is no shame in having a medical problem, and dealing with it.

On the ABDL side, it is a choice of clothing and/or toileting that doesn't hurt anyone else. As long as you aren't forcing it on anyone else, there is no reason for the public to resist you. They don't have to agree, but they will learn to tolerate it. Living with it casually will get you much better results. Being "IN YOUR FACE" with anything will garner resentment and hostility from people who understand or don't agree with you. Patience is the key.

Stepping off my pedestal now...

[diaperpt]

It's a huge mistake to blame intolerance on so-called "right-wing extremists" (which doesn't even mean anything anymore, since liberals have taken to slapping that label on anyone and everyone who disagrees with their ideas). Liberals, conservatives and moderates ALL give bizarre lifestyles a hard time. Have you turned on a TV lately? Hollywood (which is run by leftists) is the world's marrow of stereotypes and ridicule. Can you imagine the field day they'd have with ABDLs? Let's not even get into the mainstream news media (also liberal). The news cameras don't care about normal, functional ABDLs like us--they only publish stories about the perverted bottom feeders.

Aleia, I generally respect your posts...too bad about this one. Why don't we all stop slapping labels on people? You're whining that we shouldn't blame 'right-wing extremists' because its a faulty label used by those nasty 'liberals' and 'leftists'. Now how meaningless is that??? Give me a break!!!!

Your main point - I think - that there are people of every type who 'give bizarre lifestyles a hard time' is a very fair assessment. Why not leave it at that rather than try to bash 'liberals'?

And as long as I bashing the idea of bashing ideas...I fear for this world if we can't state the strength of our position without bashing the other's position by labelling it!

It seems to me there are good people, OK people and bad people...and it has very little to do with their political or social point of view. Unfortunately, it seems a LOT of BAD people out there have found it easier to bash and insult others to get their way. From there others of us - not so bad people at all and very good people in many ways - have simply adopted this strategy.

For a group of people who feel oppressed, mis-understood and not accepted by others, I'd think we'd be able to be a little more aware of such practices as being counter-productive to freedom, understanding and acceptance. I don't know what it would take...sigh...

[Crinklebritches]

To be accepted, one has to accept oneself.. Binge - Purge cycle, a classic example.. If you accepted yourself why would you go through the cycle? If you accept yourself, people are more accepting. And why can't you hear the tree that fell in the forest? Because one is to busy hearing what other people think and be accepted, than to listen to the beauty of nature.

There's my philisophical rant about the acceptance portion of this post.

[acemanner]

I think the key point is no. On the grounds is that we dont really have anything to gain for all the flak we'll take.

[curiositykilledthecat]

Nothing good this way comes.

[Bettypooh]

Wow! What a hot topic that goes all over the map

OK, here's what I think and why First should an ABDL go public? As long as they cast us in a good light I couldn't care either way. You won't find ME doing it though What could be gained by going public? Frankly I think there would be some more people tolerating us as they learned more but only if the sexual aspect were kept out of the picture There would be a lot of people talking about it afterwards so that's why sex has to be avoided- it would be twisted into the main thing people talked about afterwards, and they would also twist anything said about that against us Perhaps the publicity would also generate a few more idiots seeking to 'get us' At best the 'tolerators' would outnumber the 'haters" and at worst probably equal them. Someone commented that we shouldn't be public because we're safe now since we're unknown. Well, they're wrong. Only those who haven't been discovered by the idiots are safe- and they would remain safe as long as they remained unknown. People who are out are at risk and would still be at risk, just somewhat less if the person representing us did a good job Some here spoke of the diapered people who have given us a bad name and that's truly bad press for us. But remaining in hiding just ensures that we will have nothing to counter the existing and future bad press unless someone goes out and does it. Think about that last part awhile and you might begin to see things my way.

I have been out in public crossdressed, ranging from someone who would be clocked by Mr. McGoo to a fully passing Transwoman. I have faced attackers from one end of that to the other. I have found friends from one end of that to the other too. I found that the more a person knew about TG's the better my acceptance, even if they didn't believe that TG's had no choice but to be their real self The only people I had problems with were haters, those who didn't know much about TG's, and those who thought all TG's were Gay Drag Queens. I've spent countless hours educating people about TG's and found that it really pays off. So why wouldn't a similar thing happen here? The biggest difference is that with TG's the main motivation is rarely sexual (even among Drag Queens- they just like to perform all dressed up but are almost all male-appearinging Gays off the stage) while most ABDL's here admit a strong sexual connection. Explaining that well enough to gain acceptance would be tough if not impossible.

Most sexually motivated ABDL's cannot seem to grasp that not everyone is like you. There are people like me who love diapers for 99% non-sexual reasons and I'm not alone. You fear reprisal because you expect it. I fear reprisal for being mistaken as one of you- just like what I experienced form the anti-Gay people when out in public as a not-passable woman. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but you need to realize that without knowing from experience what happens to oddballs in public your opinion is just guessing, and when you guess you often guess wrong

Ok I'm done shooting off my mouth now and I'm going back into my bunker till the fighting is over -have a nice war!

Bettypooh

[curiositykilledthecat]

well if anyone is daring enough to out themselves, let us know how it goes.

[curiositykilledthecat]

actually I almost outted myself tonight by accident to an old friend. We were talking about women and then fetishes. He figured I was up to soemthing and I didn't want to come out and say anything so we just talked about how fetishes are okay and as long as you are happy with who you are then life is fine. I think most people are okay with fetishes, however most people don't want to know about it.