Education Vs Society - Then And Now

[Yvhuce]

You're saying that a concept like "how many bushels of grain can be loaded into a wagon with dimensions x by y by z" is unnecessary? What about the farmers who STILL do things by the bushel? Do you think that THEY would consider it an unnecessary topic?

Coming from someone who's lived on a farm their whole life: Yes. Barring some of the obscenely expensive machinery that most farmers don't have access to, there are no read-outs in the combines and auger wagons to tell you how many bushels you're hauling and how many you're unloading. It's all "keep an eye on what you're doing and try not to make it overflow" kind of work. My grandpa taught me that how you tell when it's time to unload the combine is when a few grains spill between the back window and the hopper.

[ABU0001]

I don't think education has gotten worse, I just think priorities have changed. In the past, if you didn't know how long a rod was, you were screwed, Unless you happened to live near a library and have a couple of spare hours. Nowadays It is easy to find it from pretty much any computer, which are rather more common than libraries - and quicker too. I believe that knowing things is unimportant, but knowing how to find things out is exceedingly important. It is impossible to teach children everything they need to know to be successful in life, but you can teach them how to work it out for themselves.

[Yvhuce]

I don't think education has gotten worse, I just think priorities have changed. In the past, if you didn't know how long a rod was, you were screwed, Unless you happened to live near a library and have a couple of spare hours. Nowadays It is easy to find it from pretty much any computer, which are rather more common than libraries - and quicker too. I believe that knowing things is unimportant, but knowing how to find things out is exceedingly important. It is impossible to teach children everything they need to know to be successful in life, but you can teach them how to work it out for themselves.

Agreed. A lot of stuff that they teach in school is just trivia. Who cares what George Washington's favorite color was? What's more important is you be able to function in society once you're out of highschool, not that you can answer a bunch of trivia questions.

[BabyBat]

What's more important is you be able to function in society once you're out of highschool, not that you can answer a bunch of trivia questions.

Agreed. I have often thought that an interpersonal communications course should be required to graduate as that has more importance on the rest of your life than anything else, but it seems that those that 'flush it out' for themselves are the successful ones. It is a shame really, we couldn't make everyone successful but we could sure help alot of people with life and being happier.

[Yvhuce]

Agreed. I have often thought that an interpersonal communications course should be required to graduate as that has more importance on the rest of your life than anything else, but it seems that those that 'flush it out' for themselves are the successful ones. It is a shame really, we couldn't make everyone successful but we could sure help alot of people with life and being happier.

Personally, I'd suggest making things like Driver's Ed mandatory, and at least a basic level of vehicular maintenance. Stuff like changing the oil and tires. All schools should have a shop class. People can save themselves a lot of money and a bit of embarrassment if they know how to fix their own vehicles. My school didn't have a shop class and I feel a bit ashamed about not being able to spot mechanical problems or know how to fix them... I can change a tire, but perty much need help with anything else.

Also, as I think I said in the other topic like this, they need to cut things like sports and band and focus more on actual schooling. A number of the people I graduated with had their diplomas revoked because they were athletes and the coaches had manages to get their grades changed so they could graduate with the rest of the class. There were times when some classes had less than half of the students present because they were in band, theater, or sports. On one occasion when something was going on with all 3, there were actually only 2 students in a class, including myself. You can kill the "dumb jock" stereotype by getting rid of their ability to become jocks.

[ArtemisEnterri]

Personally, I'd suggest making things like Driver's Ed mandatory, and at least a basic level of vehicular maintenance. Stuff like changing the oil and tires. All schools should have a shop class. People can save themselves a lot of money and a bit of embarrassment if they know how to fix their own vehicles. My school didn't have a shop class and I feel a bit ashamed about not being able to spot mechanical problems or know how to fix them... I can change a tire, but perty much need help with anything else.

Also, as I think I said in the other topic like this, they need to cut things like sports and band and focus more on actual schooling. A number of the people I graduated with had their diplomas revoked because they were athletes and the coaches had manages to get their grades changed so they could graduate with the rest of the class. There were times when some classes had less than half of the students present because they were in band, theater, or sports. On one occasion when something was going on with all 3, there were actually only 2 students in a class, including myself. You can kill the "dumb jock" stereotype by getting rid of their ability to become jocks.

Now wait just a damn minute.

I agree with getting rid of sports (and also stop paying the "pro" players such insane amounts of money for playing a damn game) because too many kids think their future is becoming a pro player, but it only takes one serious injury to kill that dream, and what do they have left to fall back on? Absolutely nothing because they put all their time into the damn game instead of into IMPORTANT pursuits like their education.

However, I firmly DISAGREE about cutting band, foreign languages, or arts/crafts type classes. Those activities have been PROVEN to enhance intelligence in disciplined students.

When I was in highschool, our band director didn't put up with low grades in the academic subjects, and there was ALMOST NEVER a time when band students were pulled from a class during the day. Band was ALWAYS first period of the day, then had after school practices (because it was both a parade marching band and a stage/concert band). The only time any specific grouping of students was missing from classes was for district sanctioned EDUCATIONAL events (like the once a year state-level competition for a business-related group called FBLA - Future Business Leaders of America, which I was a member of all 4 years of highschool, the yearly county regional competition was held as a single EVENING event).

Education should be about helping increase a student's intelligence and their use of it, not just about being able to pass a test (for future funding)... What intelligence factor do sports increase? From what I've seen during my school years (and in the years since while watching my younger cousins and my nieces & nephews) is that the kids that spend the most time in sports have the WORST grades in academics, and usually PAY the non-sport academic (nerdy) students to either "tutor" them or do their papers/assignments for them...

I was one of the biggest nerds in my school during my highschool years, even the computer class teacher would ask me for help (or have me assist the students in the class) when she was stuck.

[Yvhuce]

Now wait just a damn minute.

I agree with getting rid of sports (and also stop paying the "pro" players such insane amounts of money for playing a damn game) because too many kids think their future is becoming a pro player, but it only takes one serious injury to kill that dream, and what do they have left to fall back on? Absolutely nothing because they put all their time into the damn game instead of into IMPORTANT pursuits like their education.

However, I firmly DISAGREE about cutting band, foreign languages, or arts/crafts type classes. Those activities have been PROVEN to enhance intelligence in disciplined students.

I think you're missing what I was getting at. I didn't say cut out foreign languages or art classes. I said cut out the classes that keep students out of class a lot of the time (on games, practice, trips, etc.). They can have band, so long as it doesn't start infringing upon real classes. The occasional filed trip would be alright, because that's actually promoting the learning of stuff. But elective classes shouldn't infringe upon required schooling very much. If every week you're taking field trips that last the whole school day, you're only learning anything in one class. This will affect your knowledge of everything else that was supposed to be taught those days, which tends to be a bad thing when it happens often enough. Elective classes are a good way to pad one's schedule, so's to avoid excessive amounts of homework that can also become a hindrance (it's impossible to get 3 days worth of work done in 2 days, y'know?).

[redneck diaper boy]

We can now see just how ignorant the general public is. This is how Obama got elected. Anyone should be able to understand that Socialism and Marxism doesn't work. Instead ignorant Americans accepted Obama's bullshit hook line and sinker.

I agree 100%. Too much of what is taught in public schools is based on fantasy more than reality. I always try to correct my kids when they come home with that nonsense, but I have to be careful for fear they may fail a class for knowing the truth instead of quoting the politically correct bullshit.

This "No Child Left Behind" bullshit is ruining the educational system as well. Forcing schools to teach all children at the pace of the slowest child is going to create a nation of idiots. Give every child a trophy that plays a game? No winners? My ass! Competition is what made this country what it is and I think we should encourage it.

[freswith]

Irrespective of how Obama got elected - we went through the whole thing with Tony Blair, and we are now so damn glad that we've got rid of him - schools teach crap, always have, and always will.

At one point in my early teens I was spending a quarter of my time learning Latin. I hated it, despised it, and took great pleasure in being bad at it, so the school's answer was - you've guessed it - remedial Latin. Ah, Te Mori Dedicit!

The Headmaster (of one of Britain's famous "Public" schools) was a Were-vicar; a vicar in civilian clothes, trying to pass himself off as an ordinary man, then at midnight on Saturday ....Hooowwwlllelulia! he was a clergyman again, and would have your sins off you down to the bone in seconds. His effect on the syllabus was disastrous. We had one hour a week of "Science" in total, and that was not increased until our mid-teens. Evolution was not taught, and if possible, never ever mentioned. Continental Drift was an anathema. (These tenets are also held in classic Marxist theory.) Chapel was compulsory, as were prayers. When I professed atheism and objected, I was caned. This hardened my atheism.

I wish I could have spent some time learning about the Law, logical thinking, philosophy, and generally ransacking the rich world of thought, but it was not to be: we were educated, not to think for ourselves, but to accept a rigid system of thought - indoctrination. We had a splendid library, but were never allowed a period within it to study.

Eventually, and despite all his efforts, news reached the school that Queen Victoria had actually died sometime before. He then retired at the earliest age possible, and I have long suspected that the Governors gave him the (silver) bullet. He took a parish in remotest Norfolk, where they still believed in God and Queen Victoria. The astonishing thing is that we paid heavily for this privilege.

I went back to the school recently to find that so much had changed. There were computers everywhere, and a colossal range to the syllabus. And no Latin inscriptions. They actually taught keyboard skills. There was an ethos of giving value for money, probably due to the large number of overseas students who are actively recruited. I suspect that they are still not equipping children for the world they will have to face.

There is still kudos in being an "Old Boy" of that institution, but now it tends to intimidate rather than impress. I leave it off my CV, it doesn't fit with the world of Sheeple. It frightens them.

[Guest Katharsys]

Okay, a non-serious posting is needed here. This entire thread reminds me of a joke I read just recently:

THE PROGRESSION OF TEACHING MATHS AS TIMES CHANGE

TEACHING MATHS IN 1970

A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?

TEACHING MATHS IN 1980

A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100. His cost of production is 80% of the price. What is his profit?

TEACHING MATHS IN 1990

A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100. His cost of production is £80. How much was his profit?

TEACHING MATHS IN 2000

A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100. His cost of production is £80 and his profit is £20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

TEACHING MATHS IN 2005

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands. Your assignment: Discuss how the birds and squirrels might feel as the logger cut down their homes just for a measly profit of £20.

TEACHING MATHS IN 2009

A logger is arrested for trying to cut down a tree in case it may be offensive to Muslims or other religious groups not consulted in the felling license. He is also fined a £100 as his chainsaw is in breach of Health and Safety legislation as it deemed too dangerous and could cut something. He has used the chainsaw for over 20 years without incident however he does not have the correct certificate of competence and is therefore considered to be a recidivist and habitual criminal. His DNA is sampled and his details circulated throughout all government agencies. He protests and is taken to court and fined another £100 because he is such an easy target. When he is released he returns to find Gypsies have cut down half his wood to build a camp on his land. He tries to throw them off but is arrested, prosecuted for harassing an ethnic minority, imprisoned and fined a further £100. While he is in jail the Gypsies cut down the rest of his wood and sell it on the black market for £100 cash. They also have a leaving barbecue of squirrel and pheasant and depart leaving behind several tonnes of rubbish and asbestos sheeting. The forester on release is warned that failure to clear the fly tipped rubbish immediately at his own cost is an offense. He complains and is arrested for environmental pollution, breach of the peace and invoiced £12,000 plus VAT for safe disposal costs by a regulated government contractor.

Your assignment: How many times is the logger going to have to be arrested and fined before he realizes that he is never going to make £20 profit by hard work, give up, sign onto the dole and live off the state for the rest of his life?

TEACHING MATHS IN 2010

A logger doesn't sell a lorry load of timber because he can't get a loan to buy a new lorry because his bank has spent all his and their money on a derivative of securitised debt related to sub-prime mortgages in Iceland and lost the lot with only some government money left to pay a few million pound bonuses to their senior directors and the traders who made the biggest losses. The logger struggles to pay the £1,200 road tax on his old lorry however, as it was built in the 1970s it no longer meets the emissions regulations and he is forced to scrap it. Some Bulgarian loggers buy the lorry from the scrap merchant and put it back on the road. They undercut everyone on price for haulage and send their cash back home, while claiming unemployment for themselves and their relatives. If questioned they speak no English and it is easier to deport them at the governments expense. Following their holiday back home they return to the UK with different names and fresh girls and start again. The logger protests, is accused of being a bigoted racist and as his name is on the side of his old lorry he is forced to pay £1,500 registration fees as a gang master. The Government borrows more money to pay more to the bankers as bonuses are not cheap. The parliamentarians feel they are missing out and claim the difference on expenses and allowances.

Your assignment: You do the maths.

TEACHING MATHS 2017

أ المسجل تبيع حموله شاحنة من الخشب من اجل 100 دولار. صاحب تكل

[DprDJeff]

Sports and physical education are just as important in school as math, science, band and art. They have shown that the take time during the schoolday for a light workout to get the blood pumping increases a student's ability to learn. Of course, on the other side, they have also shown that strenuous exercise increase the dopamine levels in the brain and decreases their ability to learn. As for after school sports, they have two primary benefits. They keep kids busy and less likely to get into trouble or hooked on drugs. And they help raise money for the school itself to purchase more educational tools. Once again, studies have shown that students that participate in after school sports do better in school than they would without sports.

As for professional athletes getting paid too much, I have to disagree. They are entertainers with a very hard job to do. If they don't deserve to make the money they do, then neither do the actors in movies or singers in the top 40. It's all entertainment, but people seem to have a specific distaste for athletes.

[ArtemisEnterri]

Sports and physical education are just as important in school as math, science, band and art. They have shown that the take time during the schoolday for a light workout to get the blood pumping increases a student's ability to learn. Of course, on the other side, they have also shown that strenuous exercise increase the dopamine levels in the brain and decreases their ability to learn. As for after school sports, they have two primary benefits. They keep kids busy and less likely to get into trouble or hooked on drugs. And they help raise money for the school itself to purchase more educational tools. Once again, studies have shown that students that participate in after school sports do better in school than they would without sports.

As for professional athletes getting paid too much, I have to disagree. They are entertainers with a very hard job to do. If they don't deserve to make the money they do, then neither do the actors in movies or singers in the top 40. It's all entertainment, but people seem to have a specific distaste for athletes.

Jeff,

You don't get it, there are kids who blow off education because they put all their hopes on SPORTS instead of education and intellectual pursuits (being a doctor, lawyer, etc), all because they hear the insane amounts paid to pro sports players. It's a goddamn game, why the hell should they get paid millions for it? And there have been MANY PROVEN CASES where a highschool coach pestered a player's teachers to give the player passing grades in order to keep the kid in the game. That is WRONG! Ignoring education to play a damn game is STUPID!

And think about it: the money spent by cities/counties/states to build a sports arena in order to ATTRACT a team (before any team even suggests they'd want to be in that area, could be MUCH BETTER USED by the hospitals, schools, roads, etc. The same should go for actors and any other "entertainers". Half of what they do is freakin' make-believe, like what PRESCHOOLERS do! I see no VALID reason for them to make so much (or for move theaters to charge so much for tickets)...

[Yvhuce]

Jeff,

You don't get it, there are kids who blow off education because they put all their hopes on SPORTS instead of education and intellectual pursuits (being a doctor, lawyer, etc), all because they hear the insane amounts paid to pro sports players. It's a goddamn game, why the hell should they get paid millions for it? And there have been MANY PROVEN CASES where a highschool coach pestered a player's teachers to give the player passing grades in order to keep the kid in the game. That is WRONG! Ignoring education to play a damn game is STUPID!

And think about it: the money spent by cities/counties/states to build a sports arena in order to ATTRACT a team (before any team even suggests they'd want to be in that area, could be MUCH BETTER USED by the hospitals, schools, roads, etc. The same should go for actors and any other "entertainers". Half of what they do is freakin' make-believe, like what PRESCHOOLERS do! I see no VALID reason for them to make so much (or for move theaters to charge so much for tickets)...

Ditto. Too much importance is placed upon sports and not enough upon educating. Also, many schools will do things like use money allotted to them for new books, computers, and improvements to the classrooms for new sports equipment and new sports uniforms, instead. My own highschool was guilty of this. There were times when the science teachers actually refused to teach some of the stuff in the science books because they were from the 60's and that information had been outdated for 35 years. Some of the students actually had their parents' science books, for God's sake! Did you not pay attention to anything I'd posted? I'm not arguing against students' ability to exercise. I'm arguing against the "sports is more important than schooling" attitude. The reason there's a "dumb jock" stereotype is because it's TRUE.

As for athletes, actors, etc. They're payed way too much. They can do the same damn job for $8.00 an hour, like us folks who actually work for a living. But yes, actual entertainers (singers, actors, writers, etc. [not including athletes]) should be able to make a percentage of what they work to produce. That's only fair. But athletes don't actually produce anything. They just go around doing the same boring stuff all the time and mainly just have drunks for fans.

[ArtemisEnterri]

Ditto. Too much importance is placed upon sports and not enough upon educating. Also, many schools will do things like use money allotted to them for new books, computers, and improvements to the classrooms for new sports equipment and new sports uniforms, instead. My own highschool was guilty of this. There were times when the science teachers actually refused to teach some of the stuff in the science books because they were from the 60's and that information had been outdated for 35 years. Some of the students actually had their parents' science books, for God's sake! Did you not pay attention to anything I'd posted? I'm not arguing against students' ability to exercise. I'm arguing against the "sports is more important than schooling" attitude. The reason there's a "dumb jock" stereotype is because it's TRUE.

As for athletes, actors, etc. They're payed way too much. They can do the same damn job for $8.00 an hour, like us folks who actually work for a living. But yes, actual entertainers (singers, actors, writers, etc. [not including athletes]) should be able to make a percentage of what they work to produce. That's only fair. But athletes don't actually produce anything. They just go around doing the same boring stuff all the time and mainly just have drunks for fans.

Like I said before, there once was a time when even "pro" players only played a game because they loved the game, not because of the money... But these days, it's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY...

You are exactly right: actors, writers, and singers PRODUCE a TANGIBLE, reusable (reruns/DVDs, books, CDs, etc) product. But sports "stars" provide nothing beyond a ONE-TIME game for about an hour or so per event. Sure, you can watch the replay highlights or a taped copy of the game, but it's not as entertaining as the original game, and it doesn't cost anywhere near the rates for a TV show or movie production from start to finish per event...

I was just trying to point out that (in America) MILLIONS of dollars are WASTED on activities that do not in any way help educate the kids in the public school system. From some of the articles I have read, European and Asian countries put a much stronger focus (and stronger financial backing) on actual education/academics than on sports...

[acemanner]

For me , as im still in Highschool ( started late , held back a year) I can still see this happening today. In our math classes, our teachers don't even teach the formulas anymore , they teach you how to do it on your calculator.

English , is a joke. I'm a Senior and we're still doing punctuation. Not because the etachers want to its BECAUSE THE KIDS NEVER LEARN. Everyone at my school expects a handout, and sadly, they usually get it.

What I think it comes down to , at least for me is Laziness.

When people don't work and still get credit, what do you expect to happen? And with this "no child left behind" shit , the teachers can't say. "too bad, if your struggleing , go to the library or come in after class" Everyone has to wait another day for the teacher to teach 1 thing over again. GAAH , it pisses me off knowing how unprepared we are going to be when we get out of school. And I hate it , I've talked to the teachers and they feel the same way too!

Honestly , there is too much shit doen in the name of "protecting the children" any polititan can put the picture of a child on any bill and get ti passed.

America is turning into a cess-pool of Self-indulgent ignorant, pregnant nationalists! And were crashing down from out meteforical blimp APPLAUDING OUR OWN IGNORANCE. HORRAY FOR THE USA!