Contradictions In Religious Fundamentalism

[curiositykilledthecat]

well I am laughing at the fact this went from people's misconceptions of fundamentalism to torture to prisons to who knows what. I just found it funny that the topic went around the block and back again. Good thread though.

[sarah_ab]

i walked into a bathroom today at work and it was completely trashed. the first words out of my mouth were "jesus christ" .. does thsi mean i'm not an athiest anymore?

[sarah_ab]

I'm sorry to introduce this conversation....... but......... you can't forget that..... there's an Higher Law.... that is above the american constituiton or the declarion of independence and that law is the declarion of the human rights !!

but what does that have to do with contradictions in religious fundamentalism?

[Baby Bethany]

I'm sorry to introduce this conversation....... but......... you can't forget that..... there's an Higher Law.... that is above the american constituiton or the declarion of independence and that law is the declarion of the human rights !!

I take it this relates to the discussion about the death sentence?

Beth

[Baby Cammy]

I would just like to add, and I can't believe no one has mentioned him yet (and if you have forgive me), a man named Josephus. Josephus was a first-century Jewish historian who documented the life, miracles, and resurrection of Jesus.

[guitar_a_goo_goo_ga]

I would just like to add, and I can't believe no one has mentioned him yet (and if you have forgive me), a man named Josephus. Josephus was a first-century Jewish historian who documented the life, miracles, and resurrection of Jesus.

why is it everyone who wrote of jesus only did so after his death?

[Baby Cammy]

why is it everyone who wrote of jesus only did so after his death?

Where are you gathering your information from?

[tenderheart]

I'm sorry to introduce this conversation....... but......... you can't forget that..... there's an Higher Law.... that is above the american constituiton or the declarion of independence and that law is the declarion of the human rights !!

Um, I just have to reply to point out that the constitution does not "give" rights to humans. Rather the bill of rights in this example ,outlines inalienable rights of all humans that cannot be infringed. So, those rights are recognized as being made by a higher order than man and our given birthright as humans. In other words the framers of the American constitution recognized that government is corrupt and the populace needs protection from those who would govern them.

[Baby Bethany]

I would just like to add, and I can't believe no one has mentioned him yet (and if you have forgive me), a man named Josephus. Josephus was a first-century Jewish historian who documented the life, miracles, and resurrection of Jesus.

I think we have to be a bit careful when talking about the writings of Josephus.

For one he appears to have told many tall stories, usually to prove some point or to further his own cause. For instance, he claimed to have been a devout Jew, but then became very very Romanised, including taking a Roman name. The second point is that his writings were written many years (about 40) after the time of Jesus. Josephus wasn't born until 37AD, that's after the crucifixion! Besides many historians dispute the small mention he does make of Jesus........some think it was added to his writings at a much later date.

You can't discount Josephus, but I think we have to be careful.

[Baby Bethany]

why is it everyone who wrote of jesus only did so after his death?

I think you make a valid point, and we did cover a lot of this in previous posts.

I admit that the lack of contempory evidence for the life of Jesus is frustrating. There is some, but it doesn't tell us much. To add to the frustrations, I believe (and this is just my own view) that many of the aspects of the life of Jesus seem to have been copied from earlier Gods, especially the cult of Mithras (Mithras was a sun god who's cult was very popular with Roman soldiers).

However, we must take into account that the earliest (existing) writings that discuss Jesus in detail are within about 40 years of his lifetime, this is still close enough in time to have recieved the information from eye witnesses. Plus, some parts of those writings seem to have been copied from earlier written sources (that either no longer exist, or just haven't been found). Even if there were no earlier written sources, and they did base their information on oral tradition only, we shouldn't discount the facts on that basis. These people were mostly illiterate, they relied on oral communication. And because they relied on it they were good at it, they had good tecniques for remembering details.......they remembered facts far better than us. We shouldn't make the mistake of imagining these people writing everything down like we do........this only really happened in the last couple of centuries. However, we know from other oral cultures that an oral tradition can exist for many centuries, without once being written down and still be pretty accurate.

I think the bottom line is we either accept what evidence there is for the life of Jesus or we don't. I admit the (existing) written evidence is flimsy, and I have no doubt that some of the things attributed to him are confused with other earlier gods. However, I am still left in no doubt that Jesus was a real person, a person that must have inspired all those around him.