Told My Mom! Not Good!

[Guest Guest]

I think you missed my point. You're 18. Clean your whole room. The more your mother does for you, the harder she makes it for you to EVER be independent.

[StillNeedCntrl]

You guys are right I have been being stupid lately. I have another week of daily therapy then it drops to once a week. Will get a job then until I go to college in the spring.

My dad gave me a LONG lecture about booze and basically said that the last thing I need right now is to get a drug or alcohol problem. I could tell he was really worried about me. Going to start thinking more before I do stuff.

[Guest dill Pickle]

You guys are right I have been being stupid lately. I have another week of daily therapy then it drops to once a week. Will get a job then until I go to college in the spring.

My dad gave me a LONG lecture about booze and basically said that the last thing I need right now is to get a drug or alcohol problem. I could tell he was really worried about me. Going to start thinking more before I do stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It took me a long time to figure out that I wasn't going to get happy with alchohol or the standard street drugs....but it sounds like you are trying to medicate yourself. You really need to think about what it was you were trying to accomplish with that, because it is clearly a crying need..

Make sure you are getting some exercise, you need something that feels good during the day...

[StillNeedCntrl]

My parents said no to the idea of me getting a job. They said I need to work on my other problems more first and prove that I am ready for that kind of responsibility. Plus mom doesn't want me to work because she thinks if I get comfortable at a job I won't go to college like I am supposed too.

My shrink agreed with them of course. She not only thinks I'm not ready but thinks my daily sessions should continue longer since I got caught drinking.

Then we all talked about my getting spanked. I said it hurt more than I remembered as a kid and I wasn't going to drink again until I was 21. They said that's good but it just might prove that strict discipline is exactly what I need right now. So I think spanking might be the punishment of choice now

They do want me to start getting out of the house more to help get me ready for college but they mean church groups and stuff not a job. But they did say I can hang out with my friends more if I want, but most of them are at college already.

[abdljoey]

This is getting a little bizarre, Still. So much so, that it stretches credibility.

I am trying to picture two parents and an 18 year old young man sitting in a "shrink"'s office and talking about a suitable punishment. Not only it is it strange to be "punishing" your 18 year old child, but to have the idea of spanking be sanctioned by three other adults (your parents and the so-called shrink) is simply... beyond unusual... which is why I am using the strong word bizarre.

I have told you my background of years in the evangelical church. Nothing in my experience matches what you have shared. I cannot help but think of this church counselor as really lacking. Even for a good church counselor.

May I share that when my children were in high school and were involved in some scary things, the Christian counselor we went to urged us (parents) to respect our children's privacy -- their room. And they were not even 18!! This counselor, however, was a licensed psychologist. (Not saying there are not strange licensed psychologists out there!) But really!!! Approving a spanking and then discussing it afterwards?? Again, as so many of us have shared over and over... You are 18!

Morv has made many good points. Please re-read them.

Although I have previously read your comments about the importance of your family and church to you, and while I can understand that, it is quite appropriate, there is nevertheless something not quite right about that in YOUR situation. Why? Because, as Morv has said so well, the boundaries are all wrong. Even worse, some foolish adult (counselor) is going along with a travesty.

Look, I know about parents giving "advice" - and I have done so and still give advice to my 25 - 35 year old daughters. But it is advice. They do not STILL NEED CONTROL. And neither do you! I am referring here to the business about getting a job.

You know, unlike many other 18-20 year old posts I have read, your replies are extremely articulate. You write well. It suggests that you must be pretty bright. Yet emotionally, this business about "control" is not quite right.

Sure I can understand and, as an AB-leaning person, can identify with someone taking control of me to some extent, within defined limits. Getting a spanking sounds like a fun thing, but NOT from my real parents. Again, Morv has it right regarding the right place for such things, and after thinking about your level of articulation, I can't help thinking he may be right about the way you are using your parents (who are a bit confused about their role, thanks in no small part to the counselor). [To all the posters who say the parents have rights; it's their home: I agree and none of these comments contradict that. Ironically though, most parents would be telling the 18 year old-- "Keep the room clean, get a job and contribute, or maybe move out."]

Going to college is certainly a good idea, and especially sounds good for you. But why would a job interfere with doing that? You are not even planning to go until next spring (if I remember rightly). Most parents WANT their kids to experience work. Again, that three adults are telling you not to get a job makes their advice seem suspiciously misguided. It does not seem that an articulkate person like yourself needs to spend "full time" working on the issues as presented by the therapist. This kind of control is not healthy over your time (no job allowed), your thoughts (regarding what is OK to think about and not sinful), your privacy (your Mom does not respect your room), and so on. I hope that when the subject of college comes up, it is not going to be a local college where you live at home!!!

The fact that they discovered that you like to wear diapers does NOT mean the rest of your life cannot function well. They, including the so-called shrink, are way over-reacting and trying to guide you this way and that.

I am not sure if you mentioned this, but are you the oldest in your family?

I hope you are able to get some perspective. Love does not mean the same as control.

I have a daughter who lives in a cult where control is absolute... she's 33. It is not love to control so much, despite her continuous assertions that it is. Do you believe that God coerces man into belief or gives him a choice? If God loves you and gives you a choice, isn't that the right pattern for love? (I am trying to speak from what I perceive to be your perspective.)

Again, as I have posted previously, I wish you the very best.

Hugs

Joey

[Pipsqueak]

I have to say, I'm with Joey on this one. This has gone from parents being concerned over finding diapers in your room to something that borders on bizarre. I have never heard of an 18 year old being spanked with the approval of a therapist. I cannot imagine any licensed therapist would go along with that. A spanking is something some parents give to a small child because the child is not yet capable of understanding reason. And I can't actually picture any 18 year old male I've ever known that would physically allow his parents to give him one. Most 18 year olds are as big or bigger then their parents. The personal boundaries in your house are way out of whack.

I also agree that a job would be a good thing for you. You need to be out of the house, meeting people and having some adult responsibilities. A lot of AB's like the idea of being controlled by someone during a fantasy role-play, but your parents are not the people to do that! And that's not something that should be happening 24/7. At 18 you need to be breaking away from the emotional dependence you have on your parents, not strengthening it.

I think you should seriously think about switching to a therapist that is not involved with the church in any way.

[StillNeedCntrl]

I don't think I can switch shrinks, my parents are kind of in charge of things right now. I need to fix my relationship with them but I don't know how. I'm not trying to get them to do the stuff they are doing, but other than going along with it I don't know what else to do.

I'm not going to college locally. I think they are still trying to "fix" me before I do leave for school and it's too late for them to do anything.

[Guest Guest]

I have not posted before now as I do not like to think about my days in exgay therapy but thought you should know something....

You may not be in "the camp" but you ARE in the program. The daily therapy to fix your views on relationships. The rules banning sex and masturbation. The push to find a girlfriend in the church. Your parents being told to be stricter with you. The isolation from outside influences (no job and blocking you from chat rooms online) It all fits.

Your parents are not being strict because you want it but because they are being told that it's a parenting failure on their part that led you to the confusion (as they see it) that caused you to have a homosexual encounter. Rape or not they think faulty thinking and training led you to seek out another man.

Since you are not in the residential program they don't want you to work so that you are available for therapy and so you don't have the money to leave before they decide you are ready.

I understand your wanting to respect your family and religion but be careful... I started off with church therapy before I ended up at a camp. But then I was gay and you say you're not.

[Morv]

This all makes me think of something that I encountered not terribly long ago.

Sit back and relax, for I now begin a story. If you're looking for diapers in it, you won't find 'em. But, it is a story in which I think you all might see some similarities to the current situation.

This summer I went hiking on the Appalachain Trail. I had intended hiking the entire thing, but, alas, many things led to that not occuring. I started at the southern terminus, Mount Springer, Georgia, in Amacola Falls State Park. If any of you are anywhere near it, those falls are really something to see.

Anyway, after hiking the first forty miles or so, just after Blood Mountain, there's a little outfitter in an old stone building that was put up during the WPA years in the 1930s. In the basement is a small hostel. There's a social room with a small TV and a large bunk room.

It was there I first met the Twins. Now, if I were writing this out as a proper story, I might feel the need to either try and remember their names, or make up some names for them. But, as they acted much as they are, I'll just call them the Twins.

In the night that I stayed there, I found out that the Twins were out for several weeks of the summer. One went to bed early. The other fell asleep on the floor, drewling. I couldn't wake him up when the movie was over, so he slept on the floor.

They had started their hikes with 60 lb backpacks that had no waist straps. Their sleeping bags were traditional ones, not lightweight backpacking ones. The outfitter had helped them pick out new backpacks at a low price, in exchange for their old ones, and he had done the same for their sleeping bags. In fact, the outfitter helped them get their backpacks down to about 45 lbs. If I recall right, they were staying there waiting for a package from their parents.

The next day--I think the Twins were still asleep--I started out hiking again. It was a couple hundred miles later, on the southern side of Smoky Mountain National Park that I saw them again. They were at the visitor center for Fontana Dam. It was a hazy, cloudy day, and they were doing homework. It didn't click until much later, but I believe it was their homework that they were doing.

Before I had gotten to Fontana Dam, I had found, at one of the shelters on a trail, an odd piece of paper. I almost wish I had kept it now. It was numbered like homework, but "Bondage Breaker" was written at the top. The answers next to the questions were about how the Devil used deception as the chief weapon of his army, and various other things. I found it disturbing and figured it had belonged to the minister I had met on the trail. It actually belonged to the Twins. I didn't figure that out for a while still.

I inquired as to how they had gotten to where they were before I did--I knew they couldn't have passed me on the trail. They explained that they had hiked part of it, then hitch-hiked up to the start of the Smokies. That night I stayed at a hotel that caters to hikers. Some of the buddies I was hiking with stayed at the "Fontana Dam Hilton" -- a nickname given to the trail shelter at the dam.

Let me explain shelters on the Appalachain trail quickly -- three sides and a roof. Wooden platform so you're not on the ground on which to sleep. No electricity or running water. Most of the trail really is wilderness.

The next day saw me again leaving the Twins behind. While hiking, I talked to some of my buddies and found out a little bit more. The homework the Twins had to do was for their parents. They had to read this book, "Bondage Breaker," and do 1 page of questions every day they were out hiking. It was what they were doing for the "right" to go out hiking for the summer. They were both 19, I believe. Apparently during their hiking/hitching experience, they had stopped and stayed at a place called the Nantahalla Outdoor Center (N.O.C.) for nearly a week. It was there that the Twins had been introduced to alcohol, and one of them to marijuanna. For anyone that didn't know, the typical backpacker is a stoner. One of them worked for a short time there, but after this big party, they ended up having to leave.

I didn't think much of it until well after the Smoky Mountains, when I reached Irvin Tennessee. I stayed at Miss Janet's -- a great hostel. She told me the rest of the story of the twins. I didn't know it, but people along the trail had started referring to them as the Samsonite Twins because their starting backpacks weren't backpacks -- they were Samsonite suitcases. The kind with wheels on them.

Apparently, when they were at the N.O.C., the big party they were at resulted in at least one staff member there fired for serving to a minor. One of them also got a little fresh with one of the female staff members -- doesn't sound like he even got past first, but apparently he thought it was something real special. They were the youngest of about 12 siblings -- all of them home schooled on a farm. Their parents were choosing colleges for them in the fall. The parents had handled all of the application processes, and they were going to go to religous schools. They had gotten halfway through the Smokies and ended up stuck in Gatlinburg.

One of them didn't want to go on, and wanted to go back to the N.O.C. The other wanted to continue hiking. Neither one had the supplies or the means to get supplies to do so. The last I heard of them was that the one that was trying to hike on wanted someone to ship his cooking stove to him that he had left behind. The cost of shipping was less than the price of the cheap stove. Yet he didn't understand that he would spend less money on buying a new one.

If anyone reading hasn't seen how this applies, I'll lay it out for you. The Twins led a sheltered life, raised by their parents. When they were introduced to new situations, due to the sheltering and conditioning of home, they were unable to cope with any situation they were put in. They ended up carrying over 15 lbs of extra gear in books so that they could do "homework" for their parents. Their religion combined with their fanatic parents literally weighted them down. Not only did they bring hardship upon themselves, their lack of undrstanding and ability to act responsibly in new situations brought hardship on others. But, yet, at the same time, they both were breaking free. They were experiencing new things for the first time in their lives... and this planted a seed that might grow. I know not if it will grow into rebellion, understanding, or maybe another plant in a larger garden. But the experience of getting away changed them, and to some degree planted a true desire to live life on their own terms, and not to be controlled.

[dldad]

Have found that the better a family has open discussion that the fewer problems there are. Shortly after marriage, my wife was having depression and went to a councellor who had both of us take a personality profile test, only to find that we are very opposite in personallities. We're asked why we were together and we told them that we have a very good open dialog. Have been together for over 16 years now. Be respectful of others feelings, request the same if you feel like you need it. How you say something can be as important as what you say. Open dialog doesn't come easily, and all parties have to partake. Sounds as though your situation is becoming more open, and that family feelings are coming more out in the open, in a manner which shows caring and concern for yourself. Keep at it.

[dldad]

Second thought. Many of the things which have occured may well seem out of the ordinary for many of us. We are not actively involved in the situation to know all that is transpiring. I don't agree with all that has been pushed upon him. And hopefully any helpful suggestions from this forum will be taken as just that, a helpful suggestion, which may or may not be of use in the course of the event unfolding. Keep working at it. Best things in life don't always come easily.

[Guest Guest]

have not posted before now as I do not like to think about my days in exgay therapy but thought you should know something....

You may not be in "the camp" but you ARE in the program. The daily therapy to fix your views on relationships. The rules banning sex and masturbation. The push to find a girlfriend in the church. Your parents being told to be stricter with you. The isolation from outside influences (no job and blocking you from chat rooms online) It all fits.

Your parents are not being strict because you want it but because they are being told that it's a parenting failure on their part that led you to the confusion (as they see it) that caused you to have a homosexual encounter. Rape or not they think faulty thinking and training led you to seek out another man.

Since you are not in the residential program they don't want you to work so that you are available for therapy and so you don't have the money to leave before they decide you are ready.

I understand your wanting to respect your family and religion but be careful... I started off with church therapy before I ended up at a camp. But then I was gay and you say you're not.

Listen to this man, please, before it's too late. These "therapists" see being an AB and gay, anything deviating from their definition of normal as exactly the same thing. Now there's 2 of us who have told you this, tell your parents that you're happy to continue therapy, but you want a licensed, professional, secular therapist that will focus on helping you deal with your life instead of pouring you into a mold

[StillNeedCntrl]

I didn't see my shrink today. Didn't sleep well and convinced my mom I needed to go back to bed more than I needed to see my therapist. I don't know what to do at this point. If you guys are right and I am secretly in the program maybe I should just go to the camp and get it over with faster.

It's too easy for some of you to tell me to grow up be a man and move out. How can I do that without a job and money. And if I get a job against my parents wishes will they let me live here long enough to save up the money to leave? Will they still pay for college? I'm kind of stuck right now and have to get past this stuff no matter what it takes.

i just dont know

[Guest Guest]

It's too easy for some of you to tell me to grow up be a man and move out. How can I do that without a job and money. And if I get a job against my parents wishes will they let me live here long enough to save up the money to leave? Will they still pay for college? I'm kind of stuck right now and have to get past this stuff no matter what it takes.

That's not what we're telling you, we're just telling you that any church-based "cure" is not even remotely in your best interest, and that you need to nip this in the bud BEFORE the snatch squad shows up to take you to camp, or the home, or wherever. This won't be good for your parents either, because you won't be "cured" until right about the time your health insurance or their wallet runs out

[StillNeedCntrl]

That's not what we're telling you, we're just telling you that any church-based "cure" is not even remotely in your best interest, and that you need to nip this in the bud BEFORE the snatch squad shows up to take you to camp, or the home, or wherever. This won't be good for your parents either, because you won't be "cured" until right about the time your health insurance or their wallet runs out

I don't know how to nip it in the bud. I have no control over the situation right now. I'm so out of it today I just feel like crying. Going to have to talk to my parents but don't know what to say or even what I want at this point.

[Morv]

Remember, they are your parents. Chances are, more than anything they are worried about you. That doesn't mean that their actions will always be the best for you. They may not want to see it, but so it is.

There's no way to know the perfect solution until the situation is well passed. The most important thing is that you are aware of what is happening. People fuck with your head every day my friend -- but if you are aware that it is going on, that puts you one step up. You may not be able to get out of the situation, but be aware of it, be intelligent about it, and do not fall prey. And most of all, be true to who you know you are, and try and improve yourself through this. Do not let others make a mold of you -- make yourself into the best you that you can be.

Keep your eyes open. Listen with your ears. Think with your mind. Then, and only then, speak with the mouth god gave you.

You may not be able to change things instantly, but if you are careful, you can make sure you will be alright.

[StillNeedCntrl]

Thanks Morv. I am trying to pay attention to everything and know what is going on.

I had a real bad night last night. Didn't sleep again and kept getting more and more upset. Ended up making myself sick and threw up a couple of times. Mom was so worried she sat with me the rest of the night. I even pissed my pants and not on purpose and I wasn't wering a diaper.

Being that messed up led to another family therapy session this morning and I finally just said evertyhing including the stuff about wanting to get it over with if they were still secretly planning to make me go to the program and wanting someone to talk to that isn't part of the church.

They promised that the camp place is not something they are even considering anymore but admited that some of my therapy is similar to the program because they are still worried about me getting hurt again and want to be sure I know how to make good choices when it comes to relationships and sex.

They sort of agreed on me seeing a non-chrch shrink but in addition to my church-shrink not instead of. Still said no to me getting a job but said that we can talk about that again in a month if I am feeling better and everone thinks i am ready.

I still feel sick and like I'm going to cry again. Parents mentioned maybe I should go to the mental health center again but I told them I just need sleep and I be okay.

Mom suggested I wear diapers today in case I pee again. I was already wearing one though

[Guest Gemma]

(((((Still)))))

You sounded like you need a hug

Hang in there kid! Seems like slowly things are getting better for you.

[Pipsqueak]

I'm sorry to hear things have taken a turn for the worse, Still. Since you managed to get them to agree to a shrink that is outside the church, please pursue that. Even if you have to keep going to the church one as well, you need to talk to someone knowledgeable that is outside of that world. Please don't let it slip by the wayside!

[drynot]

One thing you should also consider here. The people here who are giving you advice LIVE THE LIFESTYLE. It is inherently difficult to get an un-biased opinion on the subject. YOU have to make your own choices. YOU have to live with the decisions. Its easy for people here to sprout rhetoric telling you what to do and so on.

Do YOU believe in the church and what it is saying? It makes no difference to me if you do or don't, but if YOU do then having faith can be a source of strenght.

Do YOU agree or disagree with what your parents are doing to you? You are at that age now that YOU need to be setting the boundarys between you and your folks. You are still their little boy and they still want to do what they feel is right for you. If YOU agree or disagree with the whole process then it is up to YOU to decide what to do with that.

My feelings on the subject HAVE NO BEARING on what you are going through. I am sure that some people who have been put through these programs have been helped. I am equally sure that these programs have hurt people as well.

You want my best piece of advice...here it is. You are living at home with your parents. It is their rules until the situation changes. Until you have a SOLID opportunity to move away and out from under them, then you need to play by their rules. DON'T go off half cocked and move away simply because people here have given you bad advice. You are only 18. You have a LIFETIME of experiences ahead of you. No amount of therapy is going to change your mind if you are set in your ways.

And as for that little 'Tale of the Twins' up top there. I've known alot more people who have self destructed after living an UNSHELTERED existence than a sheltered one.

[LightFolf]

I kindof think some people here have, meaning very well, jumped to conclusions and presented their appraisments of the situation as fact, and offered advice as a "you should do this" sort of thing. I'm personally very sensitive to that sort of thing, because some coworkers of my mom's did that to her when she shared a problem with them, and I'd rather not get into where that all went.

BUT, people have mostly, if not entirely, been posting with good intentions, and that's all I have. All I say is just my own opinions and experiences...hopefully something useful can come of it.

I personally believe strongly in the value of therapy. I've seen psychologists a few times over the past 10 years now, most of them just ok, unfortunately. It's hard to find a good one, but thankfull I have. I've been going regularly for about 3 years now, usually going once a week, and it does me a lot of good. (But it's not for everyone.)

I told my shrink about my interest in diapers yesterday, and although it was really hard to do (I've been working up to it for almost a year now), I feel a lot better. Actually, your story made me figure I might as well go ahead--since I'm very comfortable with my psychologist, and you said your church therapist was ok with diapers, I figured mine would almost have to be.

You probably did the right thing by just confronting the issue of whether or not the therapy was part of or a precursor to one of those camp-type programs. I think, as someone else said, open communication is important. It seems to me in most parts of life, most problems come simply from people not being open with each other.

I would personally reccommend seeing a non-secular therapist, but that is also my own personal bias at work. From what you've said, you've also been pretty content with the church therapist, and what is most important is how you feel, and whether or not you're comfortable.

Probably it's good to go along with what your parents say, as long as it isn't harmful to you. They are providing for you and all that, and I can understand. I'm basically on my own in terms of college, but I get some support from my aunt and uncle, and also my grandparents. My aunt and uncle know I'm gay, I told them while I was in high school, but I also already knew they'd be ok with it. My grandparents don't know yet, and I won't tell them until I'm out of college, because I need their support until I've gotten myself settled into a job and all that. Probably they'll be ok with it, but I don't want to take my chances. I understand financial dependency very well.

I'd like to put forth my own feelings on control and being controled. Speaking just for myself, I tend to have a submissive personality, and I also often wish I had someone who could kindof make decisions for me...I guess I'd be set if I get a boyfriend who specializes in being a personal assistant... Anyway, I have a strong interest in being in situations where someone will exert a lot of control or power over me, but the key for me is that I will decide to let them do it, and only because they'll be someone I know and trust that they won't do something I don't like--and, if they try something I don't like, I'll say no, and they won't do it. I'm not naive about it, and thus my real life experiences are very limited.

I encourage you not to feel guilty about your experience with that guy. I met up with a guy who seduced me (he discovered a sensitive spot on me that I hadn't known about before), and we got rather touchy-feely in a secluded corner of a park. He had already said he was polyamorous, which is not my thing, and afterwards I realized I probably shouldn't have let that happen. But, the fact was, it had happened and I couldn't change that, so I figured I might as well learn from it and move on. I don't feel that I was raped in my situation--I knew what was happening, and I let it happen, even though I probably should've known at least a little better. I was inexperienced, and a little naive, but now I know better. Yes, it was a mistake, but I don't feel bad about it, because I've learned from it. (I can't assume that a guy younger than me has no potential to be any sort of a threat, and I need to limit how much a guy is kissing my ears.) From the sound of things, your experience wasn't so simple, and was much more troubling, so it'd be unrealistic for me to say "just get over it," and that's not what I'm saying. But know that similar things happen to many of us, and it's ok. Really, we haven't done anything wrong. It's not your fault that things went too far with him.

If you want to talk with someone, I'd be happy to do that...either send me a private message or email to elektrikhd@gmail.com I'm very non-judgmental, and I'm also looking for anything (see my post on the Rainbow board called "Not looking for action, just chat"). I just like to be supportive to others when I can.

And as someone else said, take the advice here with a grain of salt, including mine.

[StillNeedCntrl]

Thanks Drynot and Lightfolf for the advice and thoughts!

I have an appointment at the MHC to get a therapist of my own. I agree that I need someone I can talk to that isn't in the church and that only I talk too. Plus if I keep having sleep and anxiaty problems I'll have a real doctor who can give me medicine.

I encourage you not to feel guilty about your experience with that guy.

I do feel a little guilty because I was just dumb. I agreed to stuff I shouldn't have cuz I didn't know any better. When he asked me if I would take whatever he did to me and he didn't have to stop even if I said too I thought he meant like if he decided to punish me during the baby play or something. But he meant have sex with me even if I didn't want it or like it! He thought my complaints were part of the game so the more I complained the rougher he got so I finally just gave in and took it.

I still think is was kinda rape because he tricked me. He didn't baby me at all just used my misunderstanding against me.

Do YOU believe in the church and what it is saying? It makes no difference to me if you do or don't, but if YOU do then having faith can be a source of strength.

Do YOU agree or disagree with what your parents are doing to you? You are at that age now that YOU need to be setting the boundaries between you and your folks. You are still their little boy and they still want to do what they feel is right for you. If YOU agree or disagree with the whole process then it is up to YOU to decide what to do with that.

I agree with most of it. Having to follow their strict rules kind of sucks since I thought I'd be "my own man" by now, but I do feel like I need the help to keep me from making a lot of dumb mistakes right now. I have moved the boundaries a little now. I told my dad I didn't want to be spanked again because that is just too weird to me and I did say no when they thought I should give up the internet. And I refused one of the rules from the very beginning.

You probably did the right thing by just confronting the issue of whether or not the therapy was part of or a precursor to one of those camp-type programs. I think, as someone else said, open communication is important. It seems to me in most parts of life, most problems come simply from people not being open with each other.

Yes! I feel a lot better knowing for sure that they aren't setting me up to go to the live-in program. They are just borrowing some of the rules and therapies to help me with the weakness that led to me getting hurt.

[StillNeedCntrl]

forgot I wanted to say:

I've gotten a couple of nasty emails from people who say I should be 100% against the program and the people who run it, so let me try and clear up my feelings on the program: I don't think it's wrong to be "gay" if that's who God made you to be. If I was gay I would be flatly refusing this therapy and stuff for sure. They aren't trying to keep me from being gay because I am not gay, they are helping me to make better choices for who I am. It's so hard to explain but I ended up in an unwanted homosexual encounter because I didn't think about who I was getting into a relationship with, even if it was a one-time relationship and even if I thought it wasn't going to be about sex. I did not make a responsible choice for myself. THAT is what they are helping me with.

To me it's not that "As a man I should avoid sex with men. it's "As a man I should avoid those who will not respect me and my body."

I think it's wrong to try and force a gay person to become a straight person but it's not wrong to help people with general sexual and relationship troubles or those who want help.

Still don't know if I am explaining it right but that's the best I can do I guess.

[dldad]

I happen to think it is wrong to force anyone into being someone they don't want to be. The psychological consequences are great. To work with someone, to find out why they want to do something, which may be out of many peoples concept of normal, and work to make the situation more harmonious. Try to make everyone happy, to a state of equality. We can offer our suggestions, but it is up to those involved to work to resolve their conflicts. Sure wish life was that easy!

[Pipsqueak]

Unfortunately the anonymity of the internet gives people the freedom to say whatever they wish without fear of retribution. I'm glad to see you are able to ignore those people who feel it's okay to browbeat you into agreeing with their position on an issue that doesn't have anything to do with them.

You seem like a smart, articulate guy, Still, and the fact that you're not blinded to aspects of yourself that you might not like, will serve you well in the long run.

I have an appointment at the MHC to get a therapist of my own. I agree that I need someone I can talk to that isn't in the church and that only I talk too.

That's great. A good therapist(and one that isn't tied to a certain belief system) is an excellent resource. I spent a number of years in therapy (nothing to do with the diapers) and having someone unbiased to talk to can be extremely helpful.