Enthusi

Hi all, I just wanted to give an update of where I am with my guide on Targeted Untraining. This is a TOTALLY different approach to untraining compared to the 12-month regimen and others. It’s based on the techniques I used to untrain myself. The premise behind my approach is as follows: 1. Understand how bladder control works. What, precisely is a bladder? How do the sphincter muscles stop or promote bladder leakage? What does the spinal cord (voiding reflex) and the midbrain (Subconsciously holding it in) and cerebrum (voluntary override) have to do with it? What about the kidneys and pelvic floor muscles? 2. Once we know who all the critical parts of bladder control work we can come up with techniques aka “weapons” to sabotage and disrupt the system. 3. The weapons we are most interested in are cognitive and behavioral. For instance self talk and guided imagery to help you trust your diaper more than your body to keep you dry. Positive reinforcement to keep you motivated. Practice relaxing the sphincter muscles and pelvic floor. And so on. 4. Be creative and come up with your own techniques to address your personal barriers, and stack and combine techniques to your advantage. (Note: I focus exclusively on bladder control, but the same sort of approach can also be applied to bowel control.) The advantages of my system are that it is biologically based, personalized, and flexible. The drawbacks are that it is less structured and requires the reader to learn and apply abstract concepts. I can imagine this would be intimidating and overwhelming for some people. Where I’m at: I am about 80% done but I’m moving at a snails pace due to…life. I have a rough draft done. My introduction is very choppy and needs refined. I haven’t proofread my guide. Also I don’t know how easy it is to read and follow especially for someone who doesn’t know much about how bladder control really works. My ask: I would love some help with proofreading and tightening up the language so it is as easy to follow as possible to minimize the drawbacks I mentioned above. If someone wants to help me write the intro that would be icing on the cake. Bonus points if you already understand the basics of bladder control and are psychologically minded. Once the guide is written I will need an anonymous and yet accessible place on the web to host the file. One that can be shared and linked to on social media. @DailyDi mentioned they might be able to help. If anyone has other suggestions I’m all ears. And last but not least I will need help getting the word out. ? Anyways this is a labor of love. My approach works. It encourages flexibility and personalization and complements other approaches out there. I just need help getting it done.

What do you mean? How does one improperly use a diaper? My doctor knows I wear diapers. I saw a urologist in the past (see above) and “Mixed urinary incontinence” is on my chart. So I can check that off my list.

I GREATLY appreciate your response, and frankly I’ve wondered myself if it’s appropriate to ask someone else to pay for diapers when I deliberately untrained myself. Hence why I posted the question! For what it’s worth I’m still able to afford them. But the cost savings in tempting. That said, I do think that the improved mental health as a result of wearing diapers full time has to count for something. Ever since I untrained my anxiety has improved. For me, it just feels right to be in diapers. I’m living more in line with my authentic self. To put it more bluntly: A few cases of diapers is a heck of a lot cheaper than long term psychotherapy. ?

Funny story! About a year ago I did see a urologist at the insistence of a specialist and my PCP at the time. When I got back to the exam room I asked if it was going to be a while because I was due for a change and she asked me if I needed one of their briefs. I naively said sure! Why would I turn down a free diaper? The MA comes back a few moments later with this flimsy pull-up. It was basically a large maxi pad held together by some cheap elastic. I don’t think it could’ve held more than a single wetting. Needless to say, I politely declined.

@~Brian~ Thanks as always for your super thoughtful responses! I dig it! To your point, I too have no desire or need to undergo urologic testing. Simply put, it’s not going to change anything. I already know why I’m incontinent, and I don’t want any other “treatment.” I also don’t want to lie to my GP. On the other hand I realize that it’s a tough sell to explain why diapers and only diapers without going into the nitty gritty about unpotty training.

Umm sort of? ??‍♂️ I technically have 2 diaper bags. I have my actual diaper bag which usually stays in my car and I which I take to ABDL events or traveling. I also have my work bag which has a “go-kit” which includes an extra diaper or 2, a bag, wipes, gloves, and rash ointment. But yes in general I need to have quick access to a diaper change if I plan to be away from home for any length of time.

I am curious for those who are diaper dependent, would you or have you asked your doctor to write a letter of necessity in the hopes of getting diapers covered? My doctor said he is willing to help, but it seems like a long shot (I wrote this from the perspective of an American, but I would also love to hear from people from other countries as well) I’ve looked into it for myself and my understanding is that it’s an uphill struggle the whole way: Most commercial insurance companies don’t cover incontinence products unless you have a qualifying diagnosis. Even then they will most likely cover generic low quality pull-ups. For them to cover tape-diapers you would need to provide evidence that tape diapers are the only option to manage your incontinence. This maybe a bit tricky for those of us who untrained. And even then you would have to coordinate with a medical supply distributor in network, who has your preferred brands. If not you would have to work with the distributor to appeal to get premium drapers covered. It sounds like a ton of work, but the thought of saving $3000+ per year makes it tempting! There’s also the question of if it’s even appropriate to have someone else pay for diapers when you intentionally untrained. I see both sides of the argument. On one hand incontinence is “self inflicted”. On the other hand, you could make a strong case for the psychological need for diapers, and at this point some of us here (myself included) are as incontinent as any other adult who needs diapers, regardless of the cause. Cheers! Enthusi!

That’s what I get for critiquing a wordsmith! ??? ”Oznl’s bathroom floor got urinated on by Oznl.”

This is a big mood! Sometimes I have to remind myself that most people would mortified if they lost more than a squirt of pee. And yet to us it’s called “Saturday morning.” Sounds like you’re entering the next phase of your untraining! Peeing is no longer an active verb for you. Instead it’s something that happens to you. “Oznl emptied his bladder” is no longer the correct syntax. The correct form of that sentence would be, “Oznl’s bladder emptied.” ?

@Kif can I just say I love your enthusiasm? I can tell you “get it”. Not sure what “it” refers to, but whatever it is, it’s great to have you as part of the team! And as a general comment for everyone who replied, I think it’s humorous/telling/pathetic/fascinating that we collectively are like “Whoops! I just pooped myself! C’est la vie!” For most people, accidentally pooping yourself is not a trivial event. ?

The timing of this is perfect. I have been untraining for years (5+)and I have little to no remaining bladder control. I have no plan to become bowel incontinent. It’s not something I strive for and it wouldn’t add to my enjoyment of diapers, or life for that matter. That said, recently I have noticed some slippage of bowel control. Every now and then I have what I call “gray accidents.” I notice an urge to go and I start off with the intent to use the big boy potty but then I say to myself, “Screw it, I’m wearing a diaper!” I don’t think these are real accidents, because I probably could still make it to the toilet if I absolutely needed to. But I’m aware this is strikingly similar to how incontinence progresses for most people. And they seem to be happening with increased frequency. And despite my stated intent to retain bowel control, I’m not exactly doing anything to mitigate the situation.

I am totally urinary incontinent. I used to have good control, but I rigorously untrained. I made up my own untraining regimen which I posted here a while back. It took much, much, much longer than 12 months to get the results I have.

@tommyneedsdiapers90 just wait until the day comes when you accidentally pee yourself when changing your diaper. Then you also have to accommodate for that contingency! Happened to me once at Disney World. I went to change a wet diaper. I was standing in a stall, and as I was getting out the new diaper I felt the familiar pressure and release while I frantically unfolded the new one and placed it between my legs. The seat of my pants were soaked but luckily it was already dark. These days I try to either keep my dirty diaper at my legs to catch any leaks while I change or use changing pad. But sometimes I still go into autopilot and forget until it’s too late. @Kif I have to imagine you’re close to the point where you forget that wearing a diaper is so normal to you, you forget it’s abnormal to most people ? ?

I’ve mentioned this a few times here but I thought it’s worth revisiting. First a disclaimer… We all realize that “normal” is a just a label thrust on us by society blah blah blah. Feel free to chime how what’s considered “normal” is relative to everyone else, and how “normal” is boring, if it makes you happy to do so, but I think most of us here are sophisticated enough to know that!? Short story time, yesterday I was in a bathroom changing and using the big boy potty for number 2. (Something I begrudgingly do from time to time). As a bit of background, I’ve been 24/7 for years and actively bladder untrained to the point where I am 100% diaper dependent day and night, almost certainly permanently. Anyways the stall was positioned next to the urinals so I could hear guys come in, walk up to the urinals, unzip, take a whiz, zip up, flush, wash hands, and be done. All within a matter of minutes! At first it shocked me how quick these guys were. But after a few moments it dawned on me that that’s normal for most guys. I guess I’m just so used to having to take a diaper bag in with me, find a stall, untape my diaper. Clean my urine soaked skin. Go big boy potty for number 2 if needed (grumble), change diapers, dispose of soiled diaper and wash up. To be fair, if I’m just changing a wet diaper I can do it under 2 minutes. But that’s not the point. It’s the way these guys commanded their bodies and effortlessly handled the process of peeing in a urinary that caught me off guard. And the fact that this is seemingly normal for other men and l was probably the same before, is mind blowing to me! Has anyone else ever been caught off guard by how easy and effortless people are about holding it in?

@DLJeff52 thanks as always for your updates. Please keep them coming! From what I can gather the biggest shift seems to be that you identify as as someone who’s incontinent. This is not a small deal. In fact it’s critical you start seeing yourself as someone who lacks the bladder control needed to live without diapers. Side note, this is the area that working with a professional hypnotist helped the most with for me. All of the available files, especially the free files focus on uncontrollable wetting. They don’t get to the core issue of identity, which is why they have middling results. But I digress.

I remember seeing a commercial for a maxi pad decades ago. Apparently this new pad was lighter and form fitting and the narrator said something along the lines of “Maxi pads shouldn’t feel like a diaper” and they showed a baby with a thick diaper on.

Yeah or those who enjoy wetting helplessly. I left it wide open. Heck share a non abdl victory!

Share as much or as little as you’d like. ?

@oznl You rock my world! @Babyhawkeye Please DO share your progress. I love reading updates from others on here. Very few people in this world want to wear diapers, and even fewer want to be diaper dependent. So we need to stick together and celebrate success! I routinely refer to myself as unpotty trained. After several years of intensive work metaphorically wrecking my bladder control I am as diaper dependent as they come. That said it’s not quite the same as having never been potty trained. I remember being in school and college and going hours on end without a bathroom break. But for the life of me I don’t know how I did it. Likewise I remember having a healthy (normal) aversion to having accidents back in the day. Nowadays I expect to pee myself if I’m not diapered. And yet, even after all these years I still love wearing diapers and I wouldn’t have it any other way. ?

This is the great unknown for me! Currently I’d say 80% of time I wet/ soak my diaper, 10% of the it’s little tiny squirts of pee (I feel my sphincter muscle clamp down automatically which causes a small jet if pee to hit my diaper), and the rest is dribbling. Though it’s highly variable. Here are some related questions that keep me up at night: 1. Does dribbling increase with time? Is it the natural progression for unpotty training? 2. If so is it possible to get to a point where you dribble so much that you stop soaking your diaper? 3. Precisely why is it that dribbling would increase with time? Is it dysfunctional voiding? Sphincter not closing? Reflexive voiding to the extreme degree? Or is it just the result of a weak bladder causing a sluggish pee stream? 4. How is the “pee squirting” related, If at all? Is it a transition state? Or just a sign of dysfunctional voiding and or small spasms? 5. My newfound lack of surprise at being wet or dry is almost certainly related, but what’s the directionality? Am I dribbling more because I’m not paying attention to my bladder? Or is it that because I’m dribbling more I don’t have the ability or desire to track my incontinence? Or maybe it’s a reciprocal interaction? As you can tell I like to think about these sorts of things!

I love it! Do you ever get in a headspace where bladder control just seems impossibly difficult? For me, more and more bladder control is an elusive skill. I don’t know how to read Japanese, or shoot a 3 point basket, or control when and where I go to the bathroom. Things that other humans do that are beyond me. Even as I typed this reply, I felt a few squirts of pee hit my diaper, and I just think it is what it is!

Agree! In fact I would go one step further and say part of potty training is a desire to stay dry. Even if someone mastered the ability to stay dry, if they aren’t happy about being potty trained and want to go back to wearing diapers, then they were not successfully potty trained. That’s just my opinion, but it’s a powerful and effective reframe and helps make the case for those of us who were able to control their bladder but feel they belong in diapers… we weren’t fully potty trained!

Omg this resonates with me deeply. Sometimes I feel I’m a toddler trapped in a grownup’s body. It’s almost like I’m pretending to be grownup because I have to.

So I’ve hinted at this here and elsewhere but there seems to be a subtle and yet profound psychological change going on inside of me. It’s a good change and I’m happy about it but I wish I knew what happened to spur this change inside of me. Like I said, it’s a good thing. Though it’s frustrating that I can’t fully comprehend or verbalize what’s going on . Here are some examples where I’ve noticed a change in my psyche: 1. I don’t feel like I’m in charge of wetting my diaper anymore. At least not like I used to be. I usually can tell when I’m wetting and it’s my body and therefore me producing the urine that’s going in my diaper, but I didn’t make the urine go in the diaper, my body did. 2. I am less excited when I find that my diaper is wetter than I realized, and less upset when I’m dryer than I realized. 3. I’ve been wearing thicker diapers because it’s just easier that way. The thicker it is the less I have to worry about what’s going on inside my diaper between changes. 4. Although I’m not flaunting it or trying to be reckless, I don’t care as much if someone accidentally gets a peak of my diaper or if I leak. 5. I have zero reliance on my external sphincter muscle to do it’s part. It’s totally useless. I expect it to give out the minute the bladder pressure raises. 6. I’ve become more amenable to wearing plastic pants and onesies for the extra support and protection they provide. 7. I haven’t been checking my diaper nearly as often between changes. But in the plus side I haven’t leaked any more than usual. 8. In the past I felt like I had to be incontinent enough to justify wearing diapers full time. But these days I feel like diapers offer the appropriate level of protection to meet my needs. I live an active live and I need to be able to urinate instantaneously, without any warning all day every day. Only diapers provide that level of protection. I don’t require the validation that I need to wear diapers like I used to. This is going to sound nutty but psychologically, it feels like I’ve somehow regressed in my understanding of bladder control and continence. My mentality has shifted from an older toddler who is late to potty train to a younger toddler who isn’t ready to potty train. I know that diapers keep me dry and that they need to be changed when they get too soiled, and that’s all there is too it. I don’t even know if that’s possible but that’s what it feels like. So yeah, even though I’m even though I’ve been at endgame for a while, my journey continues! ?

@Little BabyDoll Christine This is clearly not one of my better posts. I did a piss-poor job of conveying my message. Pun intended! ? This was not meant to be a be careful what you wish for post. I have absolutely no regrets about my decision and I have no desire to retrain. All I was trying to say was that for better or for worse, as my incontinence progresses I am becoming progressively less self-conscious about being incontinent and that’s bound to have ramifications for me. I was curious if that’s an issue for others who are incontinent as well.