BrownBobby

Respectfully...if there's one thing this thread has demonstrated...there isn't a space to have these discussions. It may be labeled as such, but if discussions in here can't even begin with the premise of "People having these discussions may not be mentally ill, self-harmful, or otherwise incapable of deciding what they want," then it's not a welcoming space. I actually have a LOT to contribute on this topic, as someone who has VERY relevant experience. I will not be sharing it here. I would like to avoid being dogpiled by several people who seem to think they're experts over the multitude of professional doctors, counselors, psychiatrists, and urologists I've talked with. (However, if you are an individual who wants to learn more about what I know, feel free to reach out via message). If your first instinct is to quote, reply, or otherwise try to rebut what I said here...I hope you instead pause and think very carefully why you feel the need to do so. What I'm asking for should be the baseline for ANY sub-forum here. Why does this one deserve less?

Hypnosis works...with a few important details. Hypnotic susceptibility is different for everyone. You can increase someone's ability to enter trance (it's a skill like anything else), but some people just naturally take to it. Suggestions have to resonate with the subject. It's very, very technically possible to hypnotize someone to do something they don't want to do, but it's a million times easier if it's introducing or reinforcing a behavior the subject already desires. So yes, you absolutely can hypnotize away your continence...by putting in the necessary time and finding suggestions that resonate with you.

I understand the "do no harm" idea here, and I also understand how applying it would lead to this decision. I make no guarantees about how it goes, but I can offer the line of logic that's worked for most people I've talked to who are open to a more unusual idea like this. I explained I was here because I was trying to avoid harm. I've felt a similar urge for literally as long as I can remember, and attempts to "work through it" or "try to deny it" have led to me being more miserable and frustrated, even to the point of major depression and suicidal ideation. This isn't something that's going to go away, and acting as though it'll somehow not be part of my life when it has for as long as I can recall doesn't help. Given that, I explained I've tried other methods to try to get to a similar result, and several of the safe methods didn't work for achieving that result. That led the more risky, but still probably safe if I exercise caution ideas. I tried those, and also wasn't successful. That only left one bucket left...the dangerous ideas. I tried for years to avoid going that route, but eventually, when the depression was at a peak, I ended up in the ER during one such attempt. Thankfully, it was temporary and didn't cause any serious harm...but at the same time, I'm trying everything I can to avoid being in that situation again. If there's a safe way to obtain this, even if it takes humiliating and uncomfortable conversations with people to get, I'd rather pursue that than wait for another truly unsafe method to become appealing again. For both of my psychologists, they agreed that we needed to explore the decision and its effects to make sure that I was of sound enough mind to request this, that I knew how permanent the procedure was, and that this was truly an unquenchable, nearly-built-in desire instead of something linked to trauma that wouldn't be resolved by the surgery. I admired their thoroughness and open-mindedness. One used a cognitive-behavioral framework to analyze the thoughts and behaviors I was experiencing; the other used a BIID framework to explore how my self-image of myself differed from my continent self. Regardless of "do no harm," both saw that it was actually reducing harm to help, and I'm still very, very thankful. I hope that another psychologist is willing to listen to what you have to say, and realize the context for what you're asking. Hang in there--there are people who'll help.

This, 100%. Lying is going to be hard in this situation. If you deny any help or tests, it only makes things more suspicious. However...that doesn't mean you have to say "I'm sabotaging my own bladder control because I want to be incontinent." (Though, from personal experience, that DOES work if you want to take that route.) Whatever story you're picking for your incontinence, make sure it makes sense. For instance, I go with an "underactive bladder/DSD" story, saying "I have a hard time getting my bladder to finally empty, so my options were spending forever in the bathroom hoping it'd empty, or just wear protection and let it empty when it finally decided it wanted to." You can go with something similar--I'd consider "I have a hard time sensing when my bladder is full, and then I suddenly have to go" (urge incontinence) or "If I drink too much, I can't trust my muscles to hold out" (overflow incontinence). Pick your line, stick with it, and go forward with anything that's suggested. If you're prescribed treatment, it's easy enough for it to fail--it's pretty common in urology for incontinence to not respond to treatment. In short, tell the truth if you possibly can...and if not, tell the closest thing you can that you'll keep straight.

This is VERY good to hear, and I'm glad it went well! It's amazing how scary it is before and during, and how...normal...things are after. Hopefully this is the first step in achieving your goal!

If that's where you are, then you're in an excellent place to move forward. Feel free to PM me if you want--I can tell you what I did to find and convince a urologist, and maybe answer any questions you might have.

So...this is a fundamental understanding of which procedure is being talked about. All of that is valid...if you're injecting it into the bladder. However, if you were to instead target the external urethral sphincter (the voluntary muscle used in urinating), the muscles relax and can't close properly, making it much harder to hold back when your subconsciously-controlled internal sphincter decides to release. Now, the rub. Urologists will be hesitant to offer this option, especially without medical cause. This doesn't mean you CAN'T have it happen--it's just much more involved than showing up and asking. I've gotten a urologist to help me with options like this, but it's taken 18 months of trying a lot of other things, combined with therapy with two counselors to make sure I was of sound mind to request it to begin with. As for delay release diuretics...I can't recommend AGAINST them highly enough. The ER visit after trying them is what finally got me to find that urologist in the first place.

@Mr Urge Incontinent (which is an awesome name!): Funnily enough, the entire process was...surprisingly mundane. I made it a rule going into this that I was going to be as truthful as I possibly could be in the process. And for the most part, I could tell people exactly what was happening, and why. But for that to make sense...we'll need to answer why I would want to do something like this to begin with. I've known since I was a small child that being in diapers and using diapers was what I wanted. I underestimated just how deep that desire ran. I fought indulging it at all for twenty years, and even once I did, I was filled with guilt and doubt about what the heck I was doing. I thought I couldn't lead a successful life, doing important things, and being a respectful and upstanding person...if I was wearing diapers. Those thoughts really started eating away at me, and after three bouts of depression and an attempt to end my life, I finally gave up and threw everything in the ring, saying that I wasn't going to give up until I explored this side of me more. I moved in with a Sir/Dom as his full-time "diaper boi," with the clear expectation that I was to be in diapers 24/7, period. It was utterly amazing how much more...right life was once I started wearing full time. My mood increased dramatically, and my success in my work and social life went up as well. But there was still one thing that bothered me. I wanted to go beyond just wearing them. I wanted them to be a necessity for me, something I was dependent on fully. As my therapist put it, I wanted some part of my life where I was abdicating control to help me control the other parts of my life. I think he's exactly right. My now-former Sir promised to work on decreasing my bladder control, but it never materialized. After six years of wearing 24/7, I still was unable to truly have an "accident" of any sort. This was made worse by the fact that I had trained three other people in that time frame to become diaper dependent, so the fact I couldn't succeed myself was distressing. Every time I thought I had made some headway, my mental health improved. Every time I found that a path forward didn't work, I was devastated. One of my friends who knows about this started saying he could tell how well my untraining was going just by my mood. It got to the point that I started trying riskier options to become more incontinent. One ER trip later, I realized I was at the point that I had to do something, both in how I was untraining and how I viewed the process and myself. Now, on to the actual question of "How the heck did you get someone to do this?" The answer is...I told the truth. With a counselor's blessing, I started seeking urologists who might help me. I didn't go, "Hey! Can we have surgery?" I simply stated the facts of my situation -- I had been wearing diapers for seven years, using them exclusively for urinating, and I want to make my incontinence worse, safely. After one attempt led to me being taken to the ER, I want to work on this with an expert, under medical supervision, to make sure what I'm doing will both work and not endanger my health. One urologist said they couldn't work with me. Another refused to talk with me as I asked if they were "kink-aware" or "LGBT friendly" (hoping that being LGBT friendly might mean being more open-minded about something like this). The third heard me say my piece...and simply said, "Go on." It was them who brought up surgery as even being an option, when I mentioned stents as something I was looking into--in their words, if I was going to do that, surgery was likely both safer and longer term. I couldn't argue with that logic. For those saying, "But what about doing no harm," I have to emphasize how much there was that I did before even being able to pursue surgery as an option. In the urologist's words, "Surgery is for when we exhaust our other options." In the meeting where we discussed surgery, we looked at what options were left, and at that point, it was either long-term catherization that came with its own laundry list of risks, or pursuing a surgery...after making sure two counselors could ensure I was benefiting more from the surgery than the potential harm that could happen. The parallel to gender dysphoria/gender reassignment surgery is a good one--one therapist used that as the framework for how we worked through everything. I was surprised at how well it applied. As for insurance, the key for all of this is that it was above board. You're right that insurance wasn't keen on paying for an elective surgery, but they were more than happy to negotiate for an in-network rate that I payed out-of-pocket. However, I was surprised how much insurance DID cover--counselor appointments, physical therapy appointments, and after the first session, even urology appointments. I was truthful about the issue as much as I could, but on my medical paperwork, it lists what's true--I have issues with retaining urine (mental ones), I am seeking to work on those muscles to wet more easily (also true), and helping explore the reasons for why this is happening psychologically (also true!). That's the cover story for those doctors that don't need to know the full story...but honestly, there's only been twice I haven't been 100% honest about every single reason why this is happening. Sorry for the book, but I wanted to make sure I gave you good answers for your questions. Again, if you have any more, don't be afraid to ask.

Long answer? Yes, this is completely possible. In fact, it's possible in the United States. I know because I've done it. If someone is truly desiring to be incontinent (and make a decision that WILL impact the rest of their life), it can be done. However...I would strongly caution making absolutely sure you want to proceed before beginning. For me, it was a VERY involved process. Just to give you an idea of the 18 months it took: I had to find a urologist who was even willing to consider it. This step WILL lead to utter embarrassment, since you're not likely to find that doctor on your first visit. This took a month. After that... I had to begin a regimen of trying other solutions first before surgery would even be put on the table. That involved physical therapy, prescription drugs, and muscle weakening. This took six months, and while I made progress, I wasn't where I deeply desired to be. So... I asked the urologist to consider an operation. Unsurprisingly, they wanted proof that this was something I truly desired, and that I was sound of mind to ask for it. That began five months of one-on-one sessions with two different counselors, each helping me work through my thoughts on it. After five months, each one was willing to write a letter of support. Then... The surgery itself had to be scheduled. As it turns out, elective surgery involving incredibly precise tools can be hard to schedule. This itself took six months, between talking with insurance about what would and wouldn't be covered, finding an operating theater, and getting all the ducks in a row for the day of the surgery. But even then... The surgery happened without any major hitches. The recovery, however...I spent a week with a catheter that was dripping blood from the incisions. This even led to an ER visit when the cath got blocked, leading to having to explain to even more doctors and nurses what was going on so they would be able to help. After a week (and the cath getting blocked AGAIN), I was able to see how things went. So...where am I now? The good news is that the consciously controlled, external urethral sphincter is weakened dramatically. It still can hold, but not for long, and it absolutely can't stop anything mid-stream. But even then...I wasn't incontinent. Turns out, I had a subconsciously-controlled pelvic floor that was insistent on making up for the sabotaged muscle. So, here I am, ten months later, and I'm still in talks with the urologist to figure out how to proceed. For now, it's restarting the prescription drug regimen and going back to physical therapy. If that doesn't solve the problem...then it's going to be ANOTHER operation, with ANOTHER recovery time, and no guarantee of long term results. Fun fact: sphincterotomies have a one in three chance of reversing themselves within five years, which leads to either regaining control (if you're lucky) or being unable to pass urine at all (if you're not lucky). Short answer? Yep! You can do it, and even in the US. Just realize it is really a complicated, messy affair with lots of risks and chances for complications and failures. If you have any specific questions, though, feel free to ask.

Frankly, pcbaby2011...what the heck is the goal you're trying to achieve here? You entered this forum with the idea that you were going to "educate" everyone here with....I'll politely say "questionable" objective statements, and after stating very clearly that people wanting incontinence can't have it and shouldn't even bother having this desire anyway...what were you expecting to happen? Even if your years of life experience and training truly led to the knowledge to speak on this topic...this is your method of explaining it? Really? What response were you expecting from people when you come in swinging and attacking with unnecessarily absolute statements? Even if your points are 100 percent correct, how you word things and how you approach a social situation matter, even online. But even then...your advice is dubious. Yes, you can train yourself to be incontinent. How do I know this? I actually asked a licensed urologist, point blank. I have one that I've approached about my goal to be incontinent (all above-board, office visits and everything), and they are working with me to make it happen. I'll trust someone with the Ph.D and specialized training on this one. But let's even go further. Let's say you're right, and there truly is no way to become incontinent. Just in my real-life experience, I've seen individuals train to something that looks like incontinence, walks like incontinence, talks like incontinence, and for them might as well be incontinence. Who cares semantically if the absolutely perfect term is applied? When my friend who is functionally bladder incontinent went to the hospital recently, they wrote "Urinary incontinence" on the chart all the same--after all, it was the best description of what was happening. The most compelling thing to me is how you seem to contradict your own argument so beautifully--you provide a list of the physical things that must be wrong for incontinence to be present, and then describe how it is, in fact, possible with hypnosis to cause someone to have something very similar to hypnosis. I, too, practice hypnosis as one of my hobbies (after looking at certification courses and realizing the majority of them are more pseudoscience than anything). I have used hypnosis to retrain people's bladder habits. But again...it's not shocking to see how the mental can affect the physical. I should know--I hold degrees in psychology (including studying hypnosis). Incontinence occurs all the time when mental illness, trauma, or abuse enters the picture. Nothing is physically wrong with the individual, yet they have issues such as bedwetting or pantswetting, and when the underlying mental disorder is treated, usually the incontinence follows. Frankly, the only part of your first post that isn't a myth is that there are long-term, far-reaching consequences to being incontinent. That is a fact. One that I can't imagine having to live with if you haven't had a choice in the matter. I respect the difficulties and consequences that happen when it's decided for you whether or not you will become incontinent. I can even see how seeing people who are pursuing something that has personally brought you discomfort and sadness at times is both difficult to see, and desirable to warn about. But this particular forum isn't for those who didn't have a choice. It's for those who are actively seeking this, and from personal experience, it's a very different experience to strongly desire, since birth, something like this. My two counselors (again, licensed and practicing) agree. We walked through all of those ways it impacts my life. I've work diapers 24/7 for seven years to start experiencing the way my life is impacted by it. And, yes, there are complications. But...the ability to fulfill this desire is so much better than dealing with the constant grinding of a desire that I can't fulfill--and in your case, wrongfully told that there is no way I possibly could. I don't expect a reply to this. If I get one, it's likely going to be the same points repeated again, by the looks of previous replies. But I'm not writing to try to change your mind. I'm writing for all the others here who feel that same desire that I do, and see someone tell them something that's just factually incorrect at worst and unintentionally simplistic at best. There is an entire forum here for people who are incontinent without a choice to discuss things--it's the parent forum to this one. This is the forum for people who want to achieve this goal, and feel a deep desire to get as close as possible to it...and frankly, your posts aren't helpful in any way to that effort. You're not speaking truth to power, or gospel to sinners. You're preaching life experience as axioms...or myths as facts.

I'll take a chance at trying this--if anyone can find it, I'd be grateful.

Gods...I haven't played that game in years.

Were you stateside, I'd have bought. Sorry you couldn't find takers.

The big deal with working out is that you temporarily spike your heart rate in order to make future beats pump more blood, which lowers your overall heart rate.

Oh, that was a fun reference out of the blue.

Alright! The M3s have been spoken for! (Hopefully this post keeps someone from reviving this thread six years in the future asking about them.) Hope you enjoy the padding!

I'm not sure I'd use "positive" and "negative." Those are pretty ill-defined and don't emcapsulate my experiences. I'd use "supportive," "tolerant," and "negative" if I were arranging this. Also, I had three tolerant reactions. :-D

Hey Spokane Girk! I'd check your PMs as soon as I could. :-D

Exactly right, Spokane. Although if Huggie falls through, you're next in line. :-D

Check your PMs, Huggie--you were the first to show definite interest. As for why they're up for grabs, I've never been the biggest fan of the M3 pull-ups, but I couldn't in good conscience pitch perfectly useful (and absorbent!) diapers. After having to move, I just don't have space for them anymore. So, to keep the (simply awe-inspiring) M4 X-Pluses and the (surprisingly comfortable) M2 Supers in the safe spot, the M3s will have to go to a good home.

Hello there. I have 30 (2 bags of 14, plus 2) Abena M3 pull-ups I'm looking to give away. If there's someone who wants to pay shipping to get them, they're all yours. Shoot me a PM or reply to this topic if you're interested, and we can figure out details from there. Thanks!

This story is excellent! The extreme mind control is surprisingly realistic, and the marked differences between Sasha and Lucy will be fun to explore in the future. (And for what it's worth, I had no problem following it.) Keep up the excellent work, and I can't wait to see what happens to our protagonists doomed to diapers!

Great post! However, I can't get the hypnofile to play properly. Do you have another link?

I have to speak up for some of the recording on WarpMyMind. It is true that some of EMG's older recording are of the "I now command you to lose control" variety, but there are several recordings (most of them free!) that work very well. Firstly, look into Sarnoga's hypnosis files. He is a very easy-going hypnotist with a very conversational style that most people have an easy time trancing to. His files range the entire spectrum from creating curiosity about diapers to full-blown incontinence. Of especial note from him is the Accustomed to Wetting file, which multiple people have found highly effective, and the Diaper Dependence series (One, Two, Three and Four), which has several levels of a loss of control. (Oh, and the vast majority of his recordings are free. :-D) Secondly, MindMaster has a Baby Training series that, while not free, has had reports of being incredibly effective. The first file will cause permanent bladder incontinence and a need to wear diapers, so be ready for that going into it. If you wish to go further, the fourth file in the series, Poopy Pampers, is very well done, easy to trance to, and entirely free. Finally, there are several other people who have made a file or two that's particularly noteworthy. Henk-Thokk has a Happy to Wet file that I've heard is quite successful at making diaper play much more enjoyable. Many others have made remixes of EMG's regular diaper files, usually with greater success reported. Hopefully this will help you find some more of the free recordings you were looking for. :-D

Unfortunately, I have to agree with the hacking group Anonymous on this one: I don't agree with what WBC says, but I do support their right to say it. If we stop one socially unpopular message, it leads to a precedent to stopping any and all socially unpopular messages. If that means we have to tolerate extremists shouting bigoted nonsense in order to preserve public discourse, so be it. I'll at least be ready to argue them into the ground.