Wanting Incontinence A Form Of Bondage?

[Ronnie]

Very often I see the disagreement between those who wish they were incontinent, and those who think they're foolish for wishing such a thing. I totally can see both sides as far as why they feel the way they do. I fully agree that a person should be warned to be careful what they wish for, because permanent incontinence can be very difficult to deal with. However, sometimes I feel that some of those who do not have control, and wish they did, are a bit harsh on those who wish they could become incontinent. That's along the same lines as someone bashing you for liking or wanting to wear diapers. It seems as though some here seem downright scornful.

So, I'm suggesting for those who think it's insane to wish for such a thing to try looking at it in a different light. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe I'm right, who knows. Ok, some people are into bondage, being restrained, whatever. For others who are not into that, it seems a bit weird right? But either way it's just another recognized fetish. Maybe part of the appeal to bondage is also feeling a loss of control and being restrained. To me, being incontinent is just another form of bondage. It is something that keeps you "tied down" so to speak, and you are at a loss of control. You are at the mercy and confines of your diapers. Now if your not into being restrained, you might hate it, especially if you have no choice. But some chose to give up that control. Are we in any position to judge those who want to give it up? Well, no more then those people who judge those freak nutjobs who like to wear diapers or act like babies. See where I'm going?

I'm not trying to put anyone down for whats been said, I'm just trying to put it in perspective. I've been incontinent since I broke my neck over 15 years ago. Call me insane, but I have enbraced my incontinence. Sure it's a major inconvenience a few times a year, but most of the time I oddly enjoy having to be in diapers. Maybe that's cause I've had fantasies of being restrained since I was a child? Who knows. Anyway, I just read another thread and suddenly felt like sayin what I said, with all the love to my diaper wearing brothers and sisters

Feel free to share your opinion. The way I see it there's no wrong or right feelings on the subject.

[Dill_Pickle]

Very often I see the disagreement between those who wish they were incontinent, and those who think they're foolish for wishing such a thing.

(snip)

Feel free to share your opinion. The way I see it there's no wrong or right feelings on the subject.

Ronnie:

The main source of disagreement was that the people who wanted to be made incontinent were teenagers looking for a quick fix...kind of like the women who have their breasts enhanced, only to discover it doesn't improve their love life one iota... and we have a thread "New Temporary Incontinence" (in the incontinence forum) from someone who did just that and likely will never wear a diaper again after his botox wears off and he retrains himself.

Thus it is the nearly universal recommendation from the forum that those who think they want to be incontinent proceed to prove or disprove the proposition for themselves by practicing all the unpleasant parts of it for a year or two.

And yes, I think the kind of attention you are enjoying when someone else changes you is an underlying motivator for many of us here...I know it is for myself.

[Orms Einbani]

Ronnie:

The main source of disagreement was that the people who wanted to be made incontinent were teenagers looking for a quick fix...kind of like the women who have their breasts enhanced, only to discover it doesn't improve their love life one iota... and we have a thread "New Temporary Incontinence" (in the incontinence forum) from someone who did just that and likely will never wear a diaper again after his botox wears off and he retrains himself.

Thus it is the nearly universal recommendation from the forum that those who think they want to be incontinent proceed to prove or disprove the proposition for themselves by practicing all the unpleasant parts of it for a year or two.

And yes, I think the kind of attention you are enjoying when someone else changes you is an underlying motivator for many of us here...I know it is for myself.

Actually, If you go back to the core of the issue, Ronnie, you'll see that the main argument against it is the choice. Even in bondage, there is a choice, a safe word, a limit.... something. When you're incontinent, there is no choice, you're stuck that way. It's as if someone bound you up and walked away, probably forever.

Now, if it were an option to say "duck" and just go back to being continent, then hey, more power to ya, but that doesn't happen. I'm not going to say that's not part of the appeal to people, or that it's part of the "helplessness" or something, but to try and say that it's just another form of bondage is to ignore the fact that one is permanent, and the other is not. That is where the problem comes for me when I hear people ask how to be incontinent.

Maybe some of the attitude towards people who say they wish to be incontinent IS scornful, but hey, what do you expect? People see (me included) see these people as uninformed, idiotic, and just plain not thinking. Hell, maybe they DID think about it, and if so, more power to them. But if they DID think about it, they would probably have found a way to do it instead of just popping on a forum and asking. Usually with bad grammar and spelling, to boot. The first thing that pops into my head, and probably many others, is "What a moron!", and with good reason. I'm gonna say that the majority of people who are incontinent would change that if given even a tiny chance. It's not a condition that improves your life, as I'm sure you know. So why do harm to yourself?

In short, your theory that it's another form of bondage may hold some water, but the argument of choice is still THE argument against it, not that it's "weird". I bet a lot of people here would LOVE to have the ability to turn their continence on and off at will, the same way people who are into bondage LOVE to be tied up... when they want it.

[restlessfox]

To me the issue of wanting to be incontinent is a personal choice and although it is a good idea to warn them about the reprocussions i find it kind of strange that others would actually yell at them because they themselves are incontinent.

Orms einbani brought up a good point (sorry i dont know how to do the quote thing because this is my first post aside from my introduction) if the person in question has thought about it and has lived a while basically incontinant through 24 hour diapering, i say go for a temporary solution to test the water then if that actually appeals to them, to each his own.

I personally will never make myself incontinent because i do feel that the ability to choose when and if to go seperates it from a fetish and an obligation, but to those who already have basically lost control through an abundant diaper supply, and willingness to wear constantly may just want to push it a bit further and since that is the only next option and they are willing to do it, in my oppinion do what you will, but only if you're financially secure, willing to do it, and have researched every aspect of it in depth.

Some people also only want to become bladder incontinent which is a much less demanding goal although that is still a bit too hardcore by my standards, i figure i might as well bring that up in hopes of someone on this forum that is incontinant in that manner but still has control of his or her bowels shedding some light on that aspect of this discussion.

-as a side note some people try claiming that infantilism is actually an offshoot of bondage or masochism, i'm wondering if anyone on here actually discovered diapers through that path? and if so, are you one of the people wanting to become incontinent?

[DollyDiaper]

....... I personally will never make myself incontinent because i do feel that the ability to choose when and if to go seperates it from a fetish and an obligation, but to those who already have basically lost control through an abundant diaper supply, and willingness to wear constantly may just want to push it a bit further and since that is the only next option and they are willing to do it, in my oppinion do what you will, but only if you're financially secure, willing to do it, and have researched every aspect of it in depth.....

Firstly, restlessfox, welcome and I'm sorry I've only quoted one paragraph of your well considered and interesting post. I did carefully read your whole post, and I didn't clip it because I consider it overlong, it's just a bit long to quote here in full.

I think you've hit the nail on the head in the sentence I've highlighted above. So often, we get people as young as 18 who appear to be desperate to be incontinent and often detail some quite scary and dangerous methods they've tried (or are considering trying) to achieve their aim.

They often display an alarming lack of knowledge about what their desire entails and the long-term consequences. So I completely understand the passion (not "yelling" imo) of members here who don't have the same choice, to impart their first-hand knowledge of what the reality of living without a choice really means in practical, social, financial and psychological terms.

But all too often, it seems like the 'wannabees' (for want of a better word) don't want to hear, although it's my opinion that they need to hear. I believe informed choice is the key.

D lly

P.S. If you click on "Reply" to the right of the "+Quote" on the right hand side at the bottom of the post you wish to quote, the Quotation will automatically appear in your reply window.

[Morv]

Orms Einbani, you're cool in my book. Just said pretty much what I would have said, pretty much how I would have said it.

Losing control is stupid, relinquishing control is not. Wearing diapers or playing bondage games is relinquishing control. Being incontinent is losing control. Perhaps a grayer area to illustrate the point: using drugs or alcohol is relinquishing control; being an alcoholic, an addict, is losing control. To truly lose control is to exist in a dangerous mental and/or physical state. To be able to relinquish control, even for extended period of time, is to demonstrate a functioning, disiplined, and perhaps superior mental state.

[Necros]

Orms Einbani, you're cool in my book. Just said pretty much what I would have said, pretty much how I would have said it.

Losing control is stupid, relinquishing control is not. Wearing diapers or playing bondage games is relinquishing control. Being incontinent is losing control. Perhaps a grayer area to illustrate the point: using drugs or alcohol is relinquishing control; being an alcoholic, an addict, is losing control. To truly lose control is to exist in a dangerous mental and/or physical state. To be able to relinquish control, even for extended period of time, is to demonstrate a functioning, disiplined, and perhaps superior mental state.

Damn well said! I too wanted to become incontinent when i was younger, and was searching for desperate methods to attain this goal. Although yelling at people who ask how to become incontinent is a bit mean, it helped me realize what i was walking blindly into. Now i have an even better love for diapers because i can separate fantasy (ab/dl play) from reality (work, friends, society in general). What I'm trying to say here is that although yelling at somebody for asking stupid questions is harsh it makes some of them realize the magnitude of danger and harm they will inflict upon themselves. It worked for me. Because a lot of the people searching for these methods are desperate and will not hear any sense if given gently, but like me it must be pushed upon them.

Just my two cents

Necros~

P.s: I love bondage and am somewhat of a pain lover, but i never thought of losing control to be bondage related ... i just find it a permanent weakness.

[Ronnie]

Hi everyone...

Interesting replies. I picture someone who wants to become incontinent, permanent or temporary, going about it in a way that can be reversed. In other words, if you train yourself to lose control, could you be retrained to regain it if you realize it's not for you? Even wishing this warrants strong caution from forum readers here, but I guess the tone I sensed seemed to be like "absolutely NOT, and you're a fool for even thinking of it!" When someone comes here talking about sticking needles in their prostate/bladder sphincter or mutilating themselves to attain incontinence, hell yea that's major concern.

The differentiation between relinquishing control and losing control is an interesting point, however that is a relatively advanced train of thought for the person still exploring their feelings of being DL/AB and incontinence. This is why their initial posts on the subject might sound "stupid." It might be useful to merge some of the objective responses from replies to previous requests on this matter and have it pinned at the top of the incontinence forum, or wherever the moderators think it's best suited. Then people can be directed there. It could have links to a few ways to safely achieve their goal, as well as other posts expressing cautions and hazzards. I looked but couldn't find anything like this here.

[Guest]

Actually, If you go back to the core of the issue, Ronnie, you'll see that the main argument against it is the choice. Even in bondage, there is a choice, a safe word, a limit.... something. When you're incontinent, there is no choice, you're stuck that way. It's as if someone bound you up and walked away, probably forever.

Now, if it were an option to say "duck" and just go back to being continent, then hey, more power to ya, but that doesn't happen. I'm not going to say that's not part of the appeal to people, or that it's part of the "helplessness" or something, but to try and say that it's just another form of bondage is to ignore the fact that one is permanent, and the other is not. That is where the problem comes for me when I hear people ask how to be incontinent.

Maybe some of the attitude towards people who say they wish to be incontinent IS scornful, but hey, what do you expect? People see (me included) see these people as uninformed, idiotic, and just plain not thinking. Hell, maybe they DID think about it, and if so, more power to them. But if they DID think about it, they would probably have found a way to do it instead of just popping on a forum and asking. Usually with bad grammar and spelling, to boot. The first thing that pops into my head, and probably many others, is "What a moron!", and with good reason. I'm gonna say that the majority of people who are incontinent would change that if given even a tiny chance. It's not a condition that improves your life, as I'm sure you know. So why do harm to yourself?

In short, your theory that it's another form of bondage may hold some water, but the argument of choice is still THE argument against it, not that it's "weird". I bet a lot of people here would LOVE to have the ability to turn their continence on and off at will, the same way people who are into bondage LOVE to be tied up... when they want it.

That's always been my point. I wear diapers 24/7, even to the point that, when wearing a diaper, I wet even if I didn't want to. I got my pants wet that way at work yesterday. However, all I have to do is take my diaper off, put up with a few hours of frequent restroom trips, and I'm back to "normal".

Why would somebody want to take away choice?

Maybe I want to leave the diapers home and head out for a back packing excursion, or maybe diapers just aren't going to work on vacation, or maybe the monotony has made them boring and I need a break, or maybe I'll loose my job again and can't go spending $100 a month on diapers. Whatever the reason, having the OPTION is something I'd never want to give up.

[Tadpole]

Losing control is stupid, relinquishing control is not. Wearing diapers or playing bondage games is relinquishing control. Being incontinent is losing control.

Way back in May, YeOldeDiapers mentioned how although he had worn 24/7 for long periods, he stopped because "what drove me away was it not being real. I was pretending. It was a lie, to myself, and others; and thus in the end it was unacceptable". This is at the crux of why people would want to lose, rather than relinquish, control. The constant self-analysis, "do I? don't I?"-type questioning can become an issue that only a drastic measure will solve. As has been mentioned, some people do far more drastic things (like amputation) to resolve these sorts of issues than just becoming incontinent.

Although I could suck my pacifier whenever I wanted to, I always knew that I was faking it, and that deep down I didn't *need* it in the same why a *real* thumb/paci sucker did... and that really really bothered me. So I did the "go for it completely" thing and after some months achieved the level of need that means that I accept that it is a true need, since then I sleep with my pacifier because it is a true habit. All that really has changed is that I no longer have the choice and therefore no longer sweat the "is it real?" issue.

So losing and relinquishing are different, but sometimes relinquishing is not enough to quell the mental need.

Tad.

PS - I have had thoughts about going 24/7 and what that means. It scares me, but at least I understand where it is coming from.

[Morv]

It is all a matter of where you draw the line for yourself in your mind, where you manage to convince yourself that it is real.

To truly, ultimately experience what being an adult baby is happens to be a paradox in itself. To be an baby is to relinquish control, to lack the ability to have that control. It is to have another, a parent, who you must trust to treat you properly and care for you. But, unless you are mentally or physically impaired to the degree that you are as helpless as an infant or toddler, it is still a falacy. It doesn't matter where you draw the line. Needing a pacifier, making yourself incontinent, or making yourself emotionally dependent. It is still a falacy. It is important to realize exactly this.

We create and define the point at which we are satisfied and our desires are satiated.

The true and utter paradox of an infant or child's viewpoint is their inability to comprehend, and at very young ages, to remember. We can never regain this innocence, we can only pretend. Whatever efforts we take, it will not be real. It will be a game. And the self is the definer of the terms of success.

To desire control and safety in your life and seek it through AB/DL play is not a problem. By the simple definition of necessity, when this need infringes upon living a normal life, it becomes a problem. Like it or not, the norms of society govern what "sane" is to some degree, but even more so, they govern the ability of an individual to participate in a successful manner. To need diapers 24/7 is a problem, because you are making yourself dependent to an utter degree. To truly live a 24/7 AB lifestyle is even worse, if that is truly how you are living, not just how you choose to spend, say, an extended vacation. What happens if a tragedy occurs to your caretaker? What happens that one day you can't get more diapers because of god only knows what stands in your way?

People need food, shelter, clothing, and unless you're a hermit, caring human contact. Addicts need more -- and I will stand by that statement. People that need drugs to get by, that have to have alcohol, who compulsively steal because they'd start picking at their skin obsessively if they did not, people that can't open the front door unless they step on certain tiles in the right order then unlock the twelve locks in certain order, people that compulsively lie, and, yes, people that for strictly non-medical reasons cannot get through the day without peeing "accidentally" -- all I would describe as afflicted. By what? For each one it is different, but whether it is termed addiction, compulsion, or disorder, it remains beyond their control. That is a world of difference from, say, a casual drug user or drinker who does so on occasion or as the situation permits, people who steal because they need to survive, people who habitually lock the door because of potential theft, people that tell lies for convenience or to protect others, or people that choose to use diapers or baby paraphernalia for entertainment.

When you create a line in your mind for "satisfaction," whether consciously or not, and that line drives you to do things that can impair your life because you cannot simply "not do them," it is a problem.

I'm not saying you're a bad person to want this, or that the problem is incurable. But it may take work, long hard work, to manage to draw that line at a different point so that you can find satisfaction, completion, and a resolution with efforts that disrupt your life less, with efforts you can control.

The first, and the hardest step, one that may take years and one that may take help, is to convince yourself that you CAN be satisfied with something less. It may take telling yourself what you feel are lies for many weeks, months, or years, but it IS possible. The human mind is a ridiculously powerful thing... and like the sophomoric question "can god make a rock so big he can't lift it?" the human mind suffers the truly and definitively unanswerable question of "can the human mind create within itself a problem so large it cannot overcome it?" Maybe the closest thing we can have as an answer to that question is the response, "I know that my mind can overcome."

[Necros]

Bravo! *claps*

Another beautiful and almost poetical post from Morv! I truly admire your power with words.

I tip my hat to you sir~

Necros~