My experience with stents

[Don Incognito]

On 8/28/2024 at 4:38 PM, Spargano said:

The purpose of the inner tube is to act  as a skeleton that keeps a rigid shape. This is supposed to prevent movement into the bladder and out of the bladder.

There are many ways that people accomplish this. some stents rely on the inflated balloon of a repurposed catheter, some use other materials to create damna both inside and outside to keep the stent in place. 
 

the method I am using involves using a heat gun to bend the plastic into shape

Would polycarbonate tubing work for that? I'm having trouble finding. PVC in a suitable size. Plus this polycarbonate tube has a slightly thinner wall, which may help flow:

https://www.mcmaster.com/9685T732/

[Spargano]

So I did two experiments. One I am glad I did, the other I regret.

The first, I made a stent using the frame of my, for lack of a better name, @cathdiapstent, but I let the bottom tube stretch almost three inches so that it would sit just before the urethra behind the penis. I did this, even though it was physically annoying to test a question for bed time. Would a stent that goes up that far freely drain into the diaper at night. If it did, I could begin to pear back the tube to find the point of no return. It did not drain and I had a large urination in the middle of the night.

this is good information because it means the fault does not lie with the stent, but on my anatomy and bed. It will always kink and prevent free flow when I am lying down.

 

the second experiment was making a stent the same dimension as the @cathdiap stent, but wider as perhaps a wider tunnel would allow better drainage. I went for my run and 15 minutes in I could tell this was not for me and I switched to my timmed down to normal size @cathdiap stent. Which drains perfectly… my regret is the thicker stent stretched my urethra which is now sore and slightly scratched from the thick stent. At first I thought something was wrong with my thinner stent and that it had shifted into an uncomfortable spot, but no, it’s exactly where it needs to be. 
 

hoping the soreness only lasts the day. All in all, good info.

[Loveable_guy]

I haven't commented in a while but I wanted to let you know that I am following your work and enjoy seeing your success and hearing about your failures. Great work and thanks for posting all the great information.

Stay wet and be safe.

[boyhood]

On 8/28/2024 at 3:20 PM, superabsorbantpolymer said:

What is the purpose of the inner tubing? Is it that the silicon tubing would get compressed and not let urine through on its own?

Just thought it might be helpful to mention that anyone interested in obtaining the inner tubing does not need to go out and buy spray bottles. All it uses is PTFE, also known as Teflon, and it comes in virtually any inner/outer diameter and wall thickness imaginable.

Here was a post I made last December:

Also regarding the nighttime draining problem, this is what ultimately stopped me from stenting since bedwetting was my ultimate goal. I don't think the problem is that your stent is kinking while laying down Spargano. The urethra is actually quite flexible. I came to the conclusion that after about 23 designs - several of which never migrated and performed perfectly during the day - that a stent even made it actually harder to wet while laying down than without one.

It helped me reenforce the understanding that a wide open gateway that a stent provides is not all that is required in the process of urination. There needs to be either gravity or detrusor muscle contraction taking place. Movement such as breathing was not enough to expel urine in my experience (though this seemed to work for cathdiap). Even if it had, (and I tried just about every strategy and sleeping position) little squirts nonstop is such a different experience than what a true bedwetter experiences so I doubt I'd ever be completely satisfied sleeping with a stent.

These days I have more luck with focusing on the mental aspect. Hypnosis helps as well. Eliminating the concerns and remembering it is safe to pee whenever lying in bed, and reenforce that behavior as if it were no different than a toilet. The result is much more natural and satisfying IMO.

[Spargano]

5 hours ago, boyhood said:

Just thought it might be helpful to mention that anyone interested in obtaining the inner tubing does not need to go out and buy spray bottles. All it uses is PTFE, also known as Teflon, and it comes in virtually any inner/outer diameter and wall thickness imaginable.

Here was a post I made last December:

 

Wish I had remembered this post a month or more ago, lol. Adding that to my supply list of parts should I need to redo my working frame.

 

as for sleep, you’re right. I am draining, albeit much slower than the fill so I do release later. What I am going to do, is combine regimens and attempt to get into the routine of waking, peeing, falling back to sleep quickly with the stent in. Yes, it may take time, but I think it will assist in the long term goal of untraining.

 

peeing through the stent gets easier the longer it is in as well for me. And the daytime surges are a treat that I can’t put down. This stent is marvel and so so so fun. Now that I have achieved the right size, bends and length. I am going to enjoy life in the “autosog” zone 😎

[Spargano]

Model 8 an inch or so extra tubing past the frame. I initially had holes punched in that area but it bothered my bladder so I redid it without them. 
 

the thought behind this design is to limit the rigid material interaction with the bladder and make the tube more free moving to avoid irritation. I came to this conclusion because more often than not, my stents migrate into the bladder and not out so the lower “L” bend does the majority of the holding in place. So far so good. Will see how it handles the day, night, and morning run on the treadmill. 

Here’s a second picture of it not propped up by my finger

[Spargano]

@Loveable_guyi am glad you like my failures because here’s another. I thought the longer tube into the bladder would be ok since I was draining previously, BUT that’s only because of the holes in the tube. Those same holes that were causing me irritation were also the reason the stent was draining so nice. Without the holes, the bladder barely empties at all and I could feel the stent more. Very clear that I needed to abandon this experiment. 
 

luckily for me, I anticipated this and traced my previous stent, marking where the folds were, where the holes were. Therefore, I paired back the tube to be just behind the spot where the holes were. Almost immediate complete drainage of the bladder when I inserted it.  I am going to see how this version behaves. 😅

@Loveable_guyi am glad you like my failures because here’s another. I thought the longer tube into the bladder would be ok since I was draining previously, BUT that’s only because of the holes in the tube. Those same holes that were causing me irritation were also the reason the stent was draining so nice. Without the holes, the bladder barely empties at all and I could feel the stent more. Very clear that I needed to abandon this experiment. 
 

luckily for me, I anticipated this and traced my previous stent, marking where the folds were, where the holes were. Therefore, I paired back the tube to be just behind the spot where the holes were. Almost immediate complete drainage of the bladder when I inserted it.  I am going to see how this version behaves. 😅

[Loveable_guy]

My thoughts are we need multiple openings in our stents, top and sides. From what I understand the bladder is a soft organ that when empty will collapse or reduce in size. When collapsed, the soft tissue may block an opening in our stent. I'm no expert, just my 2 cents.

 

[Spargano]

1 hour ago, Loveable_guy said:

My thoughts are we need multiple openings in our stents, top and sides. From what I understand the bladder is a soft organ that when empty will collapse or reduce in size. When collapsed, the soft tissue may block an opening in our stent. I'm no expert, just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

Perhaps. I think what did me in was my aperture of my hole punches were too large and therefore allowed scratching. I may try again with as small a hole as can be pierced with the hole punching tool. In the meantime, I think what you say is happening as occasionally I will get surges as I move, which means the opening adjusted to allow the bladder to evacuate.

[Spargano]

So here’s today’s updates and experiments. I added small holes on the cardinal directions of the tube, but even with the smallest size on the hole puncher it still irritated me. 
 

so, on a whim, I decided to try a completely different tactic….shorter, not longer. In my latest iteration I brought the folded end on top of that little nub on the top bend. The bend is barely there at all. Needless to say, it went in with the least resistance of any of my stent, and I expected it to be just short of the bladder. I was wrong. Urine came out. I tried to clamp down to see if I could stop the flow. I couldn’t. Stepped away from the toilet and it kept on dripping, sometimes squirting. 
This is a good sign. Given my migration has only ever been into the bladder and not out (excepting high pressure situations of urine backlog due to lying in bed) I am interested to see how this model handles everything.

[Loveable_guy]

For you punched holes, I use a Dermal took with a very fine buffing tips to smooth the edges that the punch makes. Taking your time you can actually polish the edges smooth. The trick is to go slow so the materials don't overheat and melt. In my tool cabinet you will find wet sanding paper up to 8000 grit.

Search for 100 Pcs Assorted Shape Polishing Bits Buffing Wheel for Dremel Rotary Drill (Corundum Sand/Sesame/Cowhide/Rubber/Wool)

[tux22]

Hey @Spargano, nice to see your progress, very impressive. Thank you for the detailed description of your successes and your failures.

Regarding the punched holes: I never successfully managed to punch smooth, non-irritating holes. So I switched to silicone catheters in size FR18 as a base, which are just about big enough push in a 4mm OD, 2mm ID PTFE tube (may depend on the exact catheter brand and model). This way, I have a guaranteed smooth tip and holes, which are actually designed to reside in your bladder.

Also, as a (hopefully never required) precaution, these catheters have a lining visible under X-rays, should it ever migrate into your bladder.

 

[Spargano]

The lower one is the one I did yesterday and it worked well but caused irritation on the run. I am switching today to a completely straight model. Both the lower and the upper bends have the silicone outer tube tucked under the frame so there is 0 separation. The inner tube is all that gets affected and this should help with the flow.

 

The experiments continue

[Spargano]

Sometimes you gotta know when to hold em, and know when to fold em…,

 

i ordered teflon 3mm id 4mm od with the thought that wider canal is better. Unfortunately, it does not retain its shape well in the silicone. And on testing the fishing line, the line cut through the teflon. I am not going to risk any models made from that.

the Teflon will have to be the 2mm id 4mm od for future experiments. So back to Amazon lol.

in the meantime, my shorter straight stent works great during the daytime, but at night it doesn’t work unless I push. This has led to me waking up with erections that are painful against the fishing line. But the safety line cannot be longer as it will and has drifted into the bladder.

[Loveable_guy]

Nighttime erections are the worst when using a stent. When this happens to me I will generally get up and look out the window for a minute or two. During the time I will normally flood out and need to change.

I have a general question regarding sleeping with a stent in place. Yes many of us have an issue with our stent backing up when laying down and or sleeping. How is it that if you were catheterized and connected to a collection bag you do not have this backup issue? Is the blockage happening after our stents?

[Fakename4me]

Quote

I have a general question regarding sleeping with a stent in place. Yes many of us have an issue with our stent backing up when laying down and or sleeping. How is it that if you were catheterized and connected to a collection bag you do not have this backup issue? Is the blockage happening after our stents?

 

Let me take another stab at this.   When using a Foley catheter the urine has a direct route out of the bladder.  Urine still has to reach the level of the catheter. Yes, the bladder is collapsed and does not have to fill much but the urine still needs to reach the level of the catheter to run out.  And with no restriction in the catheter, urine fill the limited area in the bladder and dribbles out.

Enter the home-made stent.  It looks like the most successful are shaped like Spargano's, Loveable_guy ect.  Which when lying on your back points up into the bladder, towards what is now the top.  More urine has to build up to reach the opening of the stent.  And while lying down you do not have gravity working for you.  Urine has to fill the limited space in the bladder to the stent opening.  Then it must build enough volume to fill the stent.  And finally the urine has to build just a bit of pressure to push past the flaccid urethra.  And when you stand up.  Well, you know what happens.

That's my theory, and I am sticking to it.

 

[Loveable_guy]

Fakename4me. Your answers follows my line of thinking but I do appreciate you taking the time to reply. I look forward to hearing from others on this mystery.  

[Spargano]

7 minutes ago, Fakename4me said:

 

Let me take another stab at this.   When using a Foley catheter the urine has a direct route out of the bladder.  Urine still has to reach the level of the catheter. Yes, the bladder is collapsed and does not have to fill much but the urine still needs to reach the level of the catheter to run out.  And with no restriction in the catheter, urine fill the limited area in the bladder and dribbles out.

Enter the home-made stent.  It looks like the most successful are shaped like Spargano's, Loveable_guy ect.  Which when lying on your back points up into the bladder, towards what is now the top.  More urine has to build up to reach the opening of the stent.  And while lying down you do not have gravity working for you.  Urine has to fill the limited space in the bladder to the stent opening.  Then it must build enough volume to fill the stent.  And finally the urine has to build just a bit of pressure to push past the flaccid urethra.  And when you stand up.  Well, you know what happens.

That's my theory, and I am sticking to it.

 

And this is the logical conclusion, but for some reason, even when the bladder has filled its not flushing out until we stand and gravity takes over. 

[cathdiap]

9 hours ago, Fakename4me said:

That's my theory, and I am sticking to it.

 

@BrownBobby, who is now completely incontinent after his surgery in Mexico, also barely pees in his diaper when he is in bed.

So it has nothing to do with the stent. Especially because with my stent I do pee uncontrollably in a lying position.

And yes, a Foley catheter with a collection bag continues to drain in the supine position, clearly demonstrating that the resistance of the closed urethra, amplified by the pressure of the diaper and mattress, must be the cause of not draining well with a stent.

[Spargano]

8 hours ago, cathdiap said:

@BrownBobby, who is now completely incontinent after his surgery in Mexico, also barely pees in his diaper when he is in bed.

So it has nothing to do with the stent. Especially because with my stent I do pee uncontrollably in a lying position.

And yes, a Foley catheter with a collection bag continues to drain in the supine position, clearly demonstrating that the resistance of the closed urethra, amplified by the pressure of the diaper and mattress, must be the cause of not draining well with a stent.

Ok, So hear me out😂. Another experiment: has anyone tried sleeping with an athletic cup. If one of the problems is the closed urethra and the natural “plugging nature” of the wet diaper wall, Would creating a gap alleviate that pressure requirement?

well, for science I am going to experiment. Granted, I bought the wrong size. I got the adult medium instead of large, but the proof of concept should still work. If it does, I will buy the larger size and then drill drainage holes. 

[nappyboymids]

So I've had mixed experiences with this whole night-time thing.  Recently I've found with my stent in that it's certainly draining whilst I'm asleep; but I still wake up in the night with the need to pee.  However, the amount is far less than it would be without the stent and in the morning my nappy is far wetter than would be accounted for by the amount I remember passing.  So ... the stent must be doing something but not everything.  I've got no words of wisdom as to why this happens but it's awesome to get to this point ...

[Spargano]

So while the straight stent works great during the day. I get the sense that it was a little short, so I switched back to the conventional design. But with a new mix. I looped the fishing line through the entire frame so the ability for it to come off is 0.

another reason I switched back to conventional was that when the stent would get dislodged due to back pressure, I found it difficult to reseat it unless I removed it entirely and reapplied lube.

i want to start trying the dremel concept for holes but I have not yet studied how to polish to get rid of and sharp edge on the silicone.o

[bleie1990]

Hey guys! I have made this stent based on several other design found online and here as well and I’m in the process of perfecting it. But I have one issue. While the stent fits great it tend to migrate into the bladder at some point where I either have to pull the retrieval line to start peeing or press/push like I would do on the toilet. What modifications could I do to prevent this from happening?

[Spargano]

It might be too long in general or the top bend needs to be higher. My migration issue usually occurs in bed.

[bleie1990]

Here are pictures from my latest stent