My experience with stents

[Bobbyca]

Hi Spargano.   

Following the evolution of your stents with interest.  I'm fairly clear on the construction, but i don't understand what appears to be an extra piece added to the interior tube which makes the stent bulge,  I've circled the  piece in the photo.  What is its function and how do you get the tubing to expand around it?

 

[bleie1990]

21 hours ago, Spargano said:

So that is shoved into the stent after construction using a crochet needle or medical forceps. It’s an anchor for the safety retrieval line.

its constructed of the same teflon tube as the frame but cut at angles to keep it from accidentally sliding out. It was uncomfortable to me so I removed it and instead used a hole puncher into the teflon. Threaded the line through the hole and tied it three times, pulling taut to make sure it will not come undone. Then I slip the silicone tube over it.

So you make the “frame” from plastic tubing before you insert it into the silicone tube? 
 

i recently ordered some pvc and abs tubing to se if I’m able to get a configuration that works for me. 
 

Are you using a one pice frame in your silicone tube?

[UsuallyDiapered]

Hello @Spargano and @cathdiap.

 

I have been following this topic with interest for several months (if not years). The only stent I have made is based on a design of dlnoir, using a catheter cut to about 12cm, with an o-ring to keep it anchored in the bladder, and fishing line for retrieval. The most I've used it for at once is about 15 hours. It's comfortable enough, but at times I think the end of the catheter is pushing into the urethral wall (at a bend in the urethra) which is either obstructing the flow by blocking the exit of urine or by pushing the stent too far into the bladder. The feeling of a lack of control is amazing, but as cathdiap has said, I like having the option to take it out when I no longer want it!

 

However...to my point. I think your Teflon/silicone designs are much more sensible in that they are more rigid and conform to the shape of the urethra, without going too far into the bladder. I'd like to try the design myself but I'm concerned about insertion and removal on account of its shape. Are there any particular "tricks" for insertion? I think you mentioned a while back, Spargano, that you insert the stent with the top part pointing down first and then turn it around at some point? Maybe the urethra is more flexible than I think?!

 

And what about removal? It's one thing to get it in place, but I'm terrified of it getting stuck or of breaking the retrieval line (even though I'm using an "extreme braid" 60lb fishing line - which, surprisingly, I haven't found irritating at all). I have the Teflon and silicone ordered, but some reassurance would be good!

 

I'm not terribly worried about migration towards the bladder - I figure that as long as the length of fishing line outside the penis is no longer than the stent itself it should be safe enough.

 

Another thing that I'm concerned about - as I'm sure many are - is the possibility of UTI. I tend to drink a lot of water anyway, and I drink pure cranberry juice during and after stent placement. I also wash my hands and the head of the penis with a chlorhexidine surgical scrub (although I know medical journals give mixed reviews of it), and I soak the stent itself in 70% isopropyl alcohol before air-drying it. I know UTIs are rare in men my age, so I would be mortified having to go to the doctor about it! Cathdiap - I think you've said before that you're not overly fussy with regard to cleaning (i.e. only using warm water - I hope I'm not misquoting you!). What about you, Spargano or anyone else? Do you take any additional precautions?

[UsuallyDiapered]

Sorry to hear that, Spargano. 

 

You are right, of course...this whole thing is not without risks, and I know you learned that the hard way a few months ago. When I first attempted a stent - early last year and similar to what I'm using currently (although using silicone tubing rather than a catheter) - I managed to cause some bleeding. It probably wasn't much in reality, but it was enough to put a stop to my stent desires...for a while at least!

 

I hope whatever damage has been done will heal quickly!

[Don Incognito]

Has anyone worn a stent while traveling internationally? It seems that there logically shouldn't be any problem, but I was just curious.

[bleie1990]

I got hold of some 4mm inner diameter plastic tubing that I can mold using hot water (over 60°C), and it seems really promising. Do you make yours with a single piece? @Spargano

[bleie1990]

1 hour ago, Spargano said:

Yes. But I will say that diameter is pretty big. You might even find it hard to get it into a 5 mm 7mm silicone tube 

I have already made some attempts to insert the plastic tube into the silicone tube, and with a little lubricant, it actually works quite well. Then I attach the cord to the innermost angle.
Do you make a hole at the outer end of the silicone tube that goes into the bladder so that there are two holes? I noticed that catheters have two holes, one on each side and not at the very tip, as we make our stents.

[UsuallyDiapered]

The silicone and Teflon tubing arrived, so I set about making my first stent along the lines of those of @cathdiap and @Spargano. Total length is about 10.5cm.

 

It is far from perfect...However, here are my observations:

• You remarked some time ago, Spargano, that this type of stent vs a modified catheter (which I had been using) is like the difference of night and day. I couldn't agree more! Even though it didn't work as I would have liked (I probably had it in for less than an hour), it was so comfortable - I could not feel it at all.
• It was, however, moving around a bit. I could see the retrieval line getting longer and shorter, so I think it was moving in and out of the bladder. It may have even been too far into the bladder. 
• The solution to this (I think) is to make the bend at the outer end sharper, i.e. close to 90 degrees. This was actually my intention, but I may not have softened / melted the Teflon as much as I should have - the angles started increasing as I was putting the silicone tubing over the Teflon.
• There may also have been too much tubing at the bladder end, so I'll try shortening that too.
• I also did not have any holes punched at the bladder end of the tubing, as I'm not sure I have anything at the moment to punch a decent hole.
• Despite all of that, urine did flow sometimes, so the first attempt was by no means a failure!

[dlnoir]

On 9/25/2024 at 4:24 AM, Don Incognito said:

Has anyone worn a stent while traveling internationally? It seems that there logically shouldn't be any problem, but I was just curious.

Yes I did on numerous occasions I might add. I have been traveling by car, train and airplane and kept my stent in. The stent I made has no metal components so it won’t trigger any metal detectors at the airport. Over the years of stent use I pretty much know what the limits are, so if you stay well on the safe side of these limits you should be okay. Same thing applies when I go to bed, I always put on a dry diaper for I know thanks to my stent it will be soaked the morning I wake up. If I were to go to sleep while the diaper is already damp chances are more than likely you will leak during the night. To me it all comes down to proper planning and getting a feel as to how far you can push things.

 

[UsuallyDiapered]

Here is my most recent attempt.

 

Compared to my first one, I have made both angles sharper - the outer bend being 90 degrees (at least it was when I made it!). I wore it for about 13 hours yesterday, including during a long walk. It works, but it's not without issues:

 

• Firstly, it's not completely stable. When I'm sitting it seems to move too far into the bladder. When I pull the retrieval line to where I can feel the end of the stent about half-way along the perineum, urine will start to flow, but when it has moved in towards the bladder, the end disappears just behind the perineum. Maybe it's best to have it sit right at the back of the perineum?
• Related to the above point, I don't seem to get much of a consistent drip-drip flow but more periodic small gushes, which would seem to indicate that it's too far into the bladder.
• Lastly, even though the flow of urine through the stent is fine, when I fold the ends of the silicone in on themselves, I end up with a ridge of silicone. This is probably understandable since essentially I am trying to fold a larger diameter into a smaller one.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on this @Spargano - if I remember correctly, you had issues with the stent not sitting correctly. What was your solution? Obviously anyone else's input is welcome!

[bleie1990]

When you guys are about to insert your stent, do you have som sort of warm up routine? For me it seems almost impossible to get the stent in place without wearing a catheter for about an hour or two before inserting the stent. 

[UsuallyDiapered]

2 hours ago, bleie1990 said:

When you guys are about to insert your stent, do you have som sort of warm up routine? For me it seems almost impossible to get the stent in place without wearing a catheter for about an hour or two before inserting the stent. 

As you know, I'm not near as experienced as @cathdiap, @Spargano, and others, so hopefully they'll chime in. For me, however, I don't have a "warm up routine". I get the stent ready (i.e. let it dry after putting it in isopropyl alcohol), I wash the head of the penis and then my hands with a chlorhexidine surgical scrub, and I begin to insert the stent...slowly.

 

I have inserted it both with and without lubricant. Lubricant has an obvious advantage in that it helps to lubricate the urethra. However, I have found that it can sometimes make insertion trickier - by this I mean that if I stop pushing for a moment, the lubricant will help the stent to pop right back out! Cathdiap mentioned before that he doesn't use lubricant, but urinates a bit to lubricate the urethra - honestly, I think that's what I'm coming to prefer myself.

 

The other thing to remember is that a lot of this comes down to developing a method of insertion that works for you. Perhaps the urethra gets used to having a stent pushed into it - I don't know - but it should certainly get easier to insert once you get used to what feels okay and what doesn't.

 

It could simply be that your stent is too big...

[UsuallyDiapered]

6 minutes ago, Spargano said:

The only warm-up routine I have is applying lubricant to the sides of the stent and the head of then penis.

what material is your frame? Mine is 2mm Id 4mm od Teflon. While I am not happy with the narrower hole, this was necessary for the frame to maintain its form. Otherwise the 90 degree bend compromises and slips around too much.  Also, in addition to needing to sharpen the bend even more. Your lower bend could also be shorter. This makes it sit better, move less and drain. What I noticed was that the lower opening can also be jammed.

 

As it happened, I needed to redo the silicone tubing on my stent. I took pictures of my frame that to date has performed the best

 

Thanks, Spargano.

 

The inner tube is the same as yours - 2mm/4mm. 

 

I'll try sharpening the lower bend even more and shortening the end as well. So, would I be right in thinking that you would be able to feel the end of yours just at the back of the perineum?

[UsuallyDiapered]

Thanks for the update and tips, @Spargano.

 

I agree about the wider diameters - I don't think I'm prepared to try anything wider than the 6mm silicone. Like you, I do like to go running a few times per week (although I haven't run with a stent in yet), so I don't want a stent that's going to be uncomfortable or potentially cause damage.

 

As for the second point about having sufficient silicone at the ends of the stent - absolutely...I do not fancy having my urethra scratched by the teflon!

 

I re-worked my stent two days ago according to your suggestions - the lower bend is even sharper and the length at the lower end is shorter. I didn't get to try it for long though - I was so eager to try it that I put it in before bed, knowing that it probably wasn't going to drain while lying down... I was right! While I was upright it seemed to be working fine. Unfortunately, as pressure built up while I was lying down, that large backlog of urine pushed the stent out through most of the urethra. For the past day I have had some discomfort in the urethra and I'm only urinating in small amounts - although the urine looks fine, I'm praying that there isn't a UTI...as I said before, I think I would be mortified if I had to give an explanation to a doctor! However, I suspect that the stent might have caused some minor inflammation of the urethra when it was forced out - hopefully that's all it is!

[UsuallyDiapered]

7 minutes ago, Spargano said:

Most likely that is the case. Drink lots of water. That happens to me at least once a night, but occasionally it will all pass through the stent and it won’t dislodge. @cathdiapis blessed that his urethra doesn’t kink and block the flow when lying down. I can bear down and it flows but it doesn’t come out in its own when supine.

Your lower bend looks great. Do you ave any vent holes on the upper bend?

I think I've more or less accepted that for the time being at least I'm not going to concern myself with having a working "night-time stent"... Even though I like the idea of sleep-wetting, when it comes to the stent I think I more like the idea of feeling the pee draining and my diaper filling! Yes, @cathdiap seems to have it all down to a T, which makes me more than a little envious, but then he has been perfecting this "art" for several years!

 

Yes, there are three small holes at the upper bend - one each side and one underneath. Unfortunately I don't have a proper punching tool at the moment, so I have had to cut small holes with a scissors - obviously I have to be careful about having very sharp edges. I also don't want to risk weakening the silicone too much - a properly punched hole is not going to weaken silicone as much as a scissors incision which obviously creates sharper angles, thus making it easer for the silicone to tear.

[UsuallyDiapered]

11 hours ago, Spargano said:

It’s not art for him, it’s anatomy. @BobbyBrownhad surgery done to achieve incontinence and he backs up when supine as well. To get sleep drainage the tubing would need to go beyond the kink in our plumbing and the damming of the diaper wall itself. 
 

you might have noticed this when you lower your diaper and the stream suddenly picks up.

 

i have accepted that limitation and moved on, I just wish the built up pressure wouldn’t dislodge the stent. Another reason I gave up on the wider stent was that this still happened even with the 3x5 mm inner tube. 
 

my only warning to you, is be very careful with the edges if you aren’t using a punch tool (and just go buy one from Michael’s or Home Depot… they’re not expensive). The goal is for the hole to be small enough that the wall of the bladder/urethra doesn’t register its there but large enough that liquid can get in. I use the smallest punch to achieve that. Sanding the silicone over the holes also aids in smoothing the surface.

 

what I would like to explore is a less irritating retrieval line. The fishing line can sometimes cut into my meatus when I have an erection and is the only type of discomfort I ever get. It could also be, if I am being 100% honest, residual damage from the scratch that is uncomfortable in the urethra. I will know in a day or so if the irritation goes away.

Quite right - I know that element is down to anatomy. When I said that cathdiap seems to have perfected the "art", I meant in the general sense of having years of experience that he now has a perfect, comfortable stent, that he can wear for weeks or months on end, and without (if I remember correctly) any injury or UTI. On the other hand, I am still very much a newbie!

 

I will try to get my hands on a punch tool soon. As far as I can tell, the smallest hole they can punch is about 2mm. For the time being, my thinking is that the slight bulge created when the silicone is folded in on itself will help to ensure that the holes will not be in constant close contact with the urethral or bladder walls.

 

As for the the retrieval line, that can be tricky - I don't want the excess so long that there's a greater chance of the stent being able to make its way to the bladder, but there also has to be some leeway for erections. The thought of the line slicing through the meatus is rather cringe-inducing . Although some people might find my method uncomfortable, I prefer to keep any knots in the fishing line outside of the penis, so, using a needle, I thread the line up one side of the teflon and then down the other (one stitch each side). It means that there are actually two lines in the urethra, but I have never found it uncomfortable, plus it gives me a bit more peace of mind.

[UsuallyDiapered]

7 minutes ago, Spargano said:

 

I am definitely not on his level, but I am very satisfied with my stent 😁. I can’t feel it in me, it drains continuously and allows me to run long distance. It’s only the line that sometimes irritates on the runs as it moves with the bouncing up and down.

You're not far behind as far as I can see, and you have come a long way in a few months - plus you learned from your mistakes!

 

On another note - what are your thoughts on replacing the alcohol in which you soak the stent? I use a 70% isopropyl alcohol solution, but obviously the alcohol content is gradually diminishing as it evaporates at a faster rate than the water. Do you use new alcohol each time or do you replace it every week or so?

[dprpail]

@cathdiap, knowing that you have used a stent for many years, have you noticed if your ability to urinate freely without a stent whas been affected by having the stent in for extended periods at a time? Meaning, when you try to urinate without the stent, do you find any change in your level of control? I would imagine having a stent for so long could make bladder neck muscles atrophy, but I don’t actually know. 

[UsuallyDiapered]

I tried my most recent stent earlier for a few hours - the same one I posted about on Sunday. I had reported on Sunday that I didn't have much success mostly because I tried it lying down. However, it didn't work great today either. 

 

It seems I just haven't found the "sweet spot" yet in terms of length - at times it was moving in towards the bladder, and at other times it was moving out into the perineum, which was uncomfortable. Sometimes it's hard to tell if the top end is too far into the bladder or not far enough - sometimes I seem to dribble when I pull the retrieval line and other times I dribble when I push the stent in a bit further.

 

I feel that the middle section (or maybe the bit above the top bend) isn't long enough. I know penis length and urethral length aren't necessarily related to height, but I'm not a particularly tall guy, and I find it hard to believe that the distance between the upper and lower bends (currently about 5cm) is not long enough!

 

I know this is trial and error because we all have at least slightly different anatomy, but I just want a stent that works now!! 

[UsuallyDiapered]

4 hours ago, Spargano said:

I am seriously hearing myself in your post. lol 

It is hard to believe that the difference of 1.5 to 2.5 inches cause different results. once the length is locked in, it won’t have that much variance inside. 

Indeed...I'm very much aware of the similarities of our experiences a few months apart!!

 

As I said, I know everyone's anatomy is different, but just out of interest, what is the length of yours between the two bends? As I said, mine's about 5cm. I think you mentioned before that your experience was that migration tended to be more a sign that the stent was too long. It could also be the case that I need to make the very top part a bit longer and maybe a slightly sharper bend so that it sits better in the bladder.

 

Regarding the un-collapsible head - it could be that I'm half asleep, but I can't really see what exactly you did. When you say you stretched the teflon with a chopstick, was that to slip it over the main teflon tubing before folding the silicone in on the wider teflon? How will you manage venting holes?

[cathdiap]

On 10/7/2024 at 11:01 PM, dprpail said:

@cathdiap, knowing that you have used a stent for many years, have you noticed if your ability to urinate freely without a stent whas been affected by having the stent in for extended periods at a time? Meaning, when you try to urinate without the stent, do you find any change in your level of control? I would imagine having a stent for so long could make bladder neck muscles atrophy, but I don’t actually know. 

Long term use of stents has never given me any problems after removal. The first day urinating can be a bit sensitive, but otherwise nothing.

[cathdiap]

17 hours ago, UsuallyDiapered said:

I know this is trial and error because we all have at least slightly different anatomy, but I just want a stent that works now!! 

It took me years to make my perfect stent.

To speed up the process for interested members, I have placed photos and information about the construction of my stent.

Unfortunately, that does not mean that you will immediately achieve the desired result. Everyone will have to find out what shape and dimensions their own urethra has.
That can still take months.

Nighttime incontinence was also the most difficult for me to achieve. And actually I still do not know exactly why my latest model suddenly works so well in bed. That is why I also photographed the frame (the plastic inner tube) of the stent in every possible way on graph paper. 

[UsuallyDiapered]

10 minutes ago, cathdiap said:

It took me years to make my perfect stent.

To speed up the process for interested members, I have placed photos and information about the construction of my stent.

Unfortunately, that does not mean that you will immediately achieve the desired result. Everyone will have to find out what shape and dimensions their own urethra has.
That can still take months.

Nighttime incontinence was also the most difficult for me to achieve. And actually I still do not know exactly why my latest model suddenly works so well in bed. That is why I also photographed the frame (the plastic inner tube) of the stent in every possible way on graph paper. 

Thanks, @cathdiap. Your photos have been very helpful. I have the general shape - which is the easy part, of course - and now it's a matter of experimenting with different lengths to find out what works best. However, I have no doubt that your photos (along with your posts) and @Spargano's have save me a lot of the initial labour!

 

It's funny how your latest model suddenly works in bed...I guess it just shows how even the slightest alterations in terms of length or shape of the stent can affect its fit and performance.

[cathdiap]

33 minutes ago, Spargano said:

I guess I still had ptsd from when I misread that chart. Looking at it now it is clear. My question for @cathdiapis this: is the graph paper stent in your album “Me and my stent” the wunderkind stent that has transformed everything? 

Previous stents also provided adequate drainage in bed, but this one is the first to induce spontaneous, natural bladder contractions. 

41 minutes ago, Spargano said:

its measurements are (if i am reading right):

2 cm bend top with 1 cm folded silicone- 3 total 

6 cm between bends

1 cm bend bottom with 1 cm folded silicone- 2 total 

Yeah, that's about right. But remember, this stent happens to work for me. It would be pure coincidence if this would match your urethra as well.

[UsuallyDiapered]

11 hours ago, Spargano said:

So, looking at @cathdiap’s catheter, I made some changes to my stent, not in measurements as I think mine works best for me, but in material…

i noticed my good stent consistently gets jettisoned out of my bladder in the night when I wake up with a full bladder needing to pee. The 2mm stent just isn’t cutting it, but I also know the 3x5 frame 5x7 silicone is too big… so what to do? I purchased 2.5x4 Teflon, but it still will not hold its shape. Only the 2mm shell will stay in shape. Anything less will bend easily. 
 

my answer, Trey the 3x5 Teflon in the 4x6 silicone. Was stretching the silicone over the frame hard? Yes! But it maintained its shape. Because I have a good working frame to model, I wasn’t worried about messing up the frame measurements after all the labor of stretching the silicone.

the end result is I have a stent that is a little bigger but in the middle. It’s not so massive inside me like the 5x7 silicone ones. The drawback is I was not able to (at least this time) loop the silicone over the bottom bend. It’s just too tight, but there is 0 play in the tube before the folded silicone at the bottom so it doesn’t matter. 
 

so far so good on the feel.

the inspiration came from looking at @cathdiap‘s photo and wondering why the folded silicone looked smaller than the frame. My guess is, it is. 

Very interesting, @Spargano. I'd say it took a while to force the silicone over the Teflon! I'll be interested to hear how it affects the flow, particularly when lying down. Do you find that the excess silicone at either end of the wider Teflon tries to revert to its natural diameter? I presume this is what you meant about your observation on @cathdiap's design.