Warning: Do Not Click If You Have Religious Views You Do Not Want Challenged

[wetman]

But decidedly polytheistic, something that doesn't go with Christianity. Or for that matter any of the Abramics.

[Diapered Jason]

But decidedly polytheistic, something that doesn't go with Christianity. Or for that matter any of the Abramics.

Maybe or perhaps Christianity is actually a polytheistic religion disguised as a monotheistic religion. Think about it, you have god (who they think exists in three persons), Jesus, a hierarchy of angels including archangels, same goes for demons, Satan, and saints. The virgin Mary is sometimes worshiped as well. It is very similar to a pyramid with Ra (god and creator) on top and the lesser gods like Hathor and Apophis (archangels and demons) beneath with Sokar (Satan) representing the underworld.

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

See you guys are all trying to get analytical, when it boiles down to one thing and one thing only.

Please prove me wrong. It's all about Belief!

[Diapered Jason]

See you guys are all trying to get analytical, when it boiles down to one thing and one thing only.

Please prove me wrong. It's all about Belief!

Um, thank you for acknowledging that fact. That is all it is isn't it, a belief; An opinion or conviction in something that cannot be proven. If something has not been proven, then it is not true since there is not enough evidence to prove it yet.

I encourage you to take a closer look at everything I have said and do some research on the subjects. Perhaps you will be able to bring forward a more thorough response and possibly defeat some of my arguments. After all, I have only given you my interpretation, which is a belief in god is nothing more than an emotional state linked to anxiety, a figment of our imagination that we believe because we want to believe it.

[KittenAB]

Jason, did you read the Neanderthal-trilogy by Robert Sawyer? SciFi, but never mind; similar conclusion.

Christianity based on Egyptian religion? Aren't you a bit south there? I seem to recall something more Persian: The early Zoroastrian faith having a big impact on all the 'Abramic' monotheist (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) beliefs. Do correct me if I err.

Actually, the story of Jesus was almost a direct rip off of ancient Egyptian myth and history. Ihmotep and Osiris, specifically. Those texts were written prior to the writing of the christian bible. Those texts were also preserved in the tombs, thankfully those were untouchable by the dark age that swept that area. Other areas are from other religious texts, though. So you are correct that the entire thing is not based on ancient Egyptian lore.

[KittenAB]

See you guys are all trying to get analytical, when it boiles down to one thing and one thing only.

Please prove me wrong. It's all about Belief!

There's the crux of the whole mess. No one is saying that religion itself is inherently bad, it's the people who ignore reality in place of belief that some are against, however, many are not even against that. Take me, I'm against the brainwashing of children and the failed attempts to prove a religion is correct. But if you just believe because you want to and do not steal from the US (like churches do) or attack others for being different (like US churches still do) .... then it's all good.

But the thing is, we can prove the bible was wrong, and so much. Scientific minds didn't get together to prove the bible was correct or not just to bash religion, they did it because they wanted to know. There are many christian scientists as well, they just don't use the bible as anything more than Grimm's Tales because that's what it is. Now, if pushed though, we can prove that every organized religion is a terrorist organization, we could prove it in a court of law even. In reality there is so much people with scientific knowledge (even just a tiny bit like me) could do to make organized religion outlawed in most countries, even the US.

But we don't. Most debates on evolution (for example) are initiated by religious zealots, scientists are putting forth the information they know, and along comes some religious zealot who demands a debate. Scientific minds love debates so they say "why not?" But then the religious zealot just pulls out the same old debunked arguments over and over again and claims victory. Only a fool would believe any of the religious texts to be based on facts, they simply are not. But fools have the right to be fools in the US and many other countries, and no one wants to take that away.

An example of the fools trying to push their ignorance is the "the US is based on religious values" argument. It really isn't. If any religious values fit the US constitution it would be, ironically, ancient Egypt, Greece, and even Rome. They didn't have a state religion, and the pantheist appearance to their religions was actually because they just had a lot of religions present.

[Alexandra]

Um, I do not know what you want me to think from this argument. It is one thing to be afraid of death, but to accept a lie to calm that fear somehow makes you better or more wiser than us. At least, that is what I got from your post.

Look, we do not know what happens to us after we die, but I think about it often. Though I am curious, I fear it greatly, and it is something that is always on the back of my mind, because I realize it is probably a sleep that you do not wake up from.

There is one fundamental thing I can prove, and that is there is no outside effect on our existence by some supernatural being on a higher plain of existence (i.e. god does not control events or individuals). The issue is the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics (a fundamental law) states that when dealing with physics at atomistic levels, we cannot determine the behavior objectively like you would Newtonian mechanics (F=MA); however, we can determine the probability of occurrence. What most people do not know is Newtonian mechanics is actually an estimate (a very good estimate), while if we follow the principle of least action, quantum mechanics is the fundamental law governing motion that pretty much simplifies to Newtonian mechanics at large enough particle sizes. Sparing the mathematical interpretation, one of the realizations of this is everything is probabilistic in nature. Therefore, if god does exist, he is merely rolling a dice for you.

I must say while I get where you coimg from and I hate to seem like I'm siding with the trolls as a devote pagan I do believe that my life is influenced by the gods but at the same time I do still acknowledge that my actions are my own even if my goddess helped me preform that action and I believe the gods are beyond the laws of the physical world set for mortals but that being said since I'm still human I do subcribe to the newtonian principals

[Alexandra]

Actually, the story of Jesus was almost a direct rip off of ancient Egyptian myth and history. Ihmotep and Osiris, specifically. Those texts were written prior to the writing of the christian bible. Those texts were also preserved in the tombs, thankfully those were untouchable by the dark age that swept that area. Other areas are from other religious texts, though. So you are correct that the entire thing is not based on ancient Egyptian lore.

its actually an amalgum of a lot of ancient pantheons including the greek, egyptian, masonic, persian, etc.

[Alexandra]

There's the crux of the whole mess. No one is saying that religion itself is inherently bad, it's the people who ignore reality in place of belief that some are against, however, many are not even against that. Take me, I'm against the brainwashing of children and the failed attempts to prove a religion is correct. But if you just believe because you want to and do not steal from the US (like churches do) or attack others for being different (like US churches still do) .... then it's all good.

But the thing is, we can prove the bible was wrong, and so much. Scientific minds didn't get together to prove the bible was correct or not just to bash religion, they did it because they wanted to know. There are many christian scientists as well, they just don't use the bible as anything more than Grimm's Tales because that's what it is. Now, if pushed though, we can prove that every organized religion is a terrorist organization, we could prove it in a court of law even. In reality there is so much people with scientific knowledge (even just a tiny bit like me) could do to make organized religion outlawed in most countries, even the US.

But we don't. Most debates on evolution (for example) are initiated by religious zealots, scientists are putting forth the information they know, and along comes some religious zealot who demands a debate. Scientific minds love debates so they say "why not?" But then the religious zealot just pulls out the same old debunked arguments over and over again and claims victory. Only a fool would believe any of the religious texts to be based on facts, they simply are not. But fools have the right to be fools in the US and many other countries, and no one wants to take that away.

An example of the fools trying to push their ignorance is the "the US is based on religious values" argument. It really isn't. If any religious values fit the US constitution it would be, ironically, ancient Egypt, Greece, and even Rome. They didn't have a state religion, and the pantheist appearance to their religions was actually because they just had a lot of religions present.

Your right Just look to most of the famous scientist of history like Capiricus or Gailio both went against the church however only because the church declared they're research to be against christanity and if memory serves both were in fact very devote christens

[KittenAB]

Your right Just look to most of the famous scientist of history like Capiricus or Gailio both went against the church however only because the church declared they're research to be against christanity and if memory serves both were in fact very devote christens

So very true. There is a pretty even distribution of great minds being religious and those who are atheist or even agnostic. A lot of the more recent ones are even Catholic, gotta give them credit for accepting science in spite of their rather vile views on other matters. It's the denial of reality that makes many of the organized religions so dangerous to advancement. Even today many of the religious zealots believe that illness is cause by demon possession, and that's just insane.

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

You can rip on god, you can rip on the bible. That's on you, but you can't take away my BELIEF!

So you guys can think you're so smart, you can prove the bible wrong lol. So!

You can believe whatever you want! No matter how hard you try to conveince me, you can take away my belief.

Try telling a Muslim, his religion is wrong! I'm sure you don't have the back bone to do that!

Rip on Christians, cause they don't get all crazy and kill people

[KittenAB]

You can rip on god, you can rip on the bible. That's on you, but you can't take away my BELIEF!

So you guys can think you're so smart, you can prove the bible wrong lol. So!

You can believe whatever you want! No matter how hard you try to conveince me, you can take away my belief.

Try telling a Muslim, his religion is wrong! I'm sure you don't have the back bone to do that!

Rip on Christians, cause they don't get all crazy and kill people

You have not been paying much attention to current affairs, many of us are telling Muslims that their religion is wrong, yet they use the exact same arguments christians do as "proof" they are right.

But here's the thing, no one is trying to tell you what to believe, however, when people are rejecting science and even attempting to ban learning, then we have a severe problem in the US. This is what most atheists are actually fighting against, and yes, christians do get "all crazy and kill people" almost as much as Muslims, often using their religious beliefs as justification for it as well. Some atheists are against all organized religion for that very reason, and rightfully so. I however prefer freedom of religion so I base judgment on an individual's actions and words, only using the fact of their religious beliefs as a cautionary sign. So yeah, right now you are just reciting what a crazy preacher likely said, because it's been said so many times to people who refuse to accept anything that challenges their beliefs, it's easy to get stuck on stupid. But here's the thing, many children today are coming out as atheists earlier in life, they fear the persecution far less now. That's a good thing, they have not had to go through the horrors that many who have had to lie about being atheist have had to, so they are more open minded and willing to say "let everyone believe what they want."

Notice that the atheists who are most vocal against religion completely tend to be older? You probably haven't even taken notice of that, it's not because there are fewer young atheists, which there are actually more young atheists than older ones, it's because the younger ones have not been subjected to anything that make them outright fear religion yet. I hope hey never have to, because a closed mind is a wasted mind. But if the religious zealots continue to attack atheists (mostly by attacking the rights to be atheist) then it is likely they will develop this hatred for all religion eventually.

See, there are even laws in many states that make it illegal to hold an office if you are atheist, these are not old laws on the books forgotten about, they are recent laws passed after 2000. This kind of attack on non-christians cannot be tolerated, nor can ones supporting it expect respect at all. It's wrong. We hear whining about removing a religious idol from a courthouse, but you never hear any outrage when a state sponsors religion. Our federal government has broken the constitution just by giving tax exempt status to "accepted" religions, that is sponsoring religion and illegal. So while you have the right to complain, you do realize you are complaining about things which are not true, you are in fact projecting, at best.

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

You, said yes Christians kill people, almost as many as Muslims!

BS! Way to show your true colors, you just hate Religion!! Way to be a BIGOT!

To try to equate Christians to Muslims! You're Full of it!!

[Alexandra]

The inquistation, The crusades, anyone of the evanglical eztreamist, the split between protostants and catholics, whos the real bigot why are you so quick to jump down the ariabic religion's thoat take a good long look at your own faith's history. every religion has it's dark hiistory and you'd better believe christanity is no different. oh and at least muslim never burned books to control the common people

[Alexandra]

You have not been paying much attention to current affairs, many of us are telling Muslims that their religion is wrong, yet they use the exact same arguments christians do as "proof" they are right.

But here's the thing, no one is trying to tell you what to believe, however, when people are rejecting science and even attempting to ban learning, then we have a severe problem in the US. This is what most atheists are actually fighting against, and yes, christians do get "all crazy and kill people" almost as much as Muslims, often using their religious beliefs as justification for it as well. Some atheists are against all organized religion for that very reason, and rightfully so. I however prefer freedom of religion so I base judgment on an individual's actions and words, only using the fact of their religious beliefs as a cautionary sign. So yeah, right now you are just reciting what a crazy preacher likely said, because it's been said so many times to people who refuse to accept anything that challenges their beliefs, it's easy to get stuck on stupid. But here's the thing, many children today are coming out as atheists earlier in life, they fear the persecution far less now. That's a good thing, they have not had to go through the horrors that many who have had to lie about being atheist have had to, so they are more open minded and willing to say "let everyone believe what they want."

Notice that the atheists who are most vocal against religion completely tend to be older? You probably haven't even taken notice of that, it's not because there are fewer young atheists, which there are actually more young atheists than older ones, it's because the younger ones have not been subjected to anything that make them outright fear religion yet. I hope hey never have to, because a closed mind is a wasted mind. But if the religious zealots continue to attack atheists (mostly by attacking the rights to be atheist) then it is likely they will develop this hatred for all religion eventually.

See, there are even laws in many states that make it illegal to hold an office if you are atheist, these are not old laws on the books forgotten about, they are recent laws passed after 2000. This kind of attack on non-christians cannot be tolerated, nor can ones supporting it expect respect at all. It's wrong. We hear whining about removing a religious idol from a courthouse, but you never hear any outrage when a state sponsors religion. Our federal government has broken the constitution just by giving tax exempt status to "accepted" religions, that is sponsoring religion and illegal. So while you have the right to complain, you do realize you are complaining about things which are not true, you are in fact projecting, at best.

yeah I mean how is it fair that I had to buy my own statue of Athena to whorship but the church gets tax exmption

[lilJester]

i only have one thing to say.....too.....many.....sheep....

[Guest gnappies]

Just as an aside, but news from over the pond in Briton. Within the next few years we will become a majority Agnostic/Atheist society. Although its has been for years as 75% of people who ticked Christian on the census, do not attend church or partake in any form of adherence to faith.

Islam is third at 2% behind Christian, then Agnostic/Atheist.

[belinda_sue_fox]

Checks teapot, yup thought so, you can still be a christian without attending church.

[wetman]

Just as an aside, but news from over the pond in Briton. Within the next few years we will become a majority Agnostic/Atheist society. Although its has been for years as 75% of people who ticked Christian on the census, do not attend church or partake in any form of adherence to faith.

Islam is third at 2% behind Christian, then Agnostic/Atheist.

I find it wrong to even collect such a statistic. Just like the stupid 'ethnic origin' ticklist here.

[Diapered Jason]

You can rip on god, you can rip on the bible. That's on you, but you can't take away my BELIEF!

So you guys can think you're so smart, you can prove the bible wrong lol. So!

You can believe whatever you want! No matter how hard you try to conveince me, you can take away my belief.

Try telling a Muslim, his religion is wrong! I'm sure you don't have the back bone to do that!

Rip on Christians, cause they don't get all crazy and kill people

All religions are dumb, I already stated that, and Christians are much more violent than Muslims, the media is just biased on what they show. With Christians, you have the anti-abortion killings perpetrated by the Army of God, the mass-murders in Norway, the KKK known today as the Imperial Klans of America, the Irish Republican Army, and there are many more. In addition, Christians are the only ones that have come to my front door. Please, spare me your ignorant religious proclivity. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are pretty much the same with very few exceptions and on all three sides, there are idiots who want to rage war against each other. You can see it with Israel for example. I think Prime Minister Netanyahu just wants to attack Iran. Listen to his speeches when he compares Iran to Nazi Germany. We also have the Republican candidates, except Ron Paul, also supporting a war against Iran as a likely option. This is an obvious prelude to war folks, one that will be very difficult to prevent.

[Alexandra]

Jason I agree with you but choose your words more carefully because religions are not dumb in and of themselfs but religious institutions are dumb now that I would agree with

[Diapered Jason]

Jason I agree with you but choose your words more carefully because religions are not dumb in and of themselfs but religious institutions are dumb now that I would agree with

No, I think religious beliefs are dumb too. On top of the already nebulous nature of these beliefs, it was also a natural progression to the religious institutions we see now, but that is my opinion that I am willing to debate. I am not trying to be real mean, I am just letting you know what I think. I am only saying this here in this thread as it was the proper place to discuss it.

[Guest diaperboykcmo]

Jason, you're full of it

Alex, you're full of it!

[Diapered Jason]

Jason, you're full of it

Awesome, which part specifically?

[Guest gnappies]

Checks teapot, yup thought so, you can still be a christian without attending church.

I can assure you, Briton is a very agnostic society, Religeon has moved from being accepted, to tollerated, and generally igonred.

If you openly admit your faith, most people in the UK will consider you a 'bit odd'.