Vegetarians And Vegans

[Tuxedo Oryx]

Just for a show of hands, are there any ABs and DLs who are also vegetarian or vegan?

For almost three years, I have been a lactoovo-vegetarian (sometimes including dairy or eggs). At times I could be considered semi-vegan. When I first started, it was mainly for the sake of curiousity and health reasons, which soon grew onto me. (At that time, cooking became one of my favorite hobbies.)

Don't worry, I'm not a militant eco-preacher who spray-paints fur coats or bombs laboratories that use animal testing. Frankly, I don't really care about what other people eat, and wouldn't bat an eyelash even if you "served mankind."

[diapergirl80]

Just for a show of hands, are there any ABs and DLs who are also vegetarian or vegan?

For almost three years, I have been a lactoovo-vegetarian (sometimes including dairy or eggs). At times I could be considered semi-vegan. When I first started, it was mainly for the sake of curiousity and health reasons, which soon grew onto me. (At that time, cooking became one of my favorite hobbies.)

Don't worry, I'm not a militant eco-preacher who spray-paints fur coats or bombs laboratories that use animal testing. Frankly, I don't really care about what other people eat, and wouldn't bat an eyelash even if you "served mankind."

I used to be a vegetarian (lacto for me). At the time I just didn't like the taste of meat. I grew up with a mother who cooked meat until it was dead and grey, and then gave it another hour at 350 just in case--so giving up meat didnt' seem like much of a sacrifice.

Eating vegetarian was a great experience for me. I ate a much larger variety of foods. I also stopped eating fast food/diner food/cheap crappy chain restaurant food because there was nothing or very little that a veggie could eat at those places (a bun with cheese? Fries?).

Alas, I fell off the wagon--hard--and developed a taste for rare steaks and sashimi. I still don't eat a lot of meat and often don't have any in the house. I'm always supportive of friends who choose to abstain from meat or animal products.

[Tuxedo Oryx]

That's cool that you are supportive of your vegetarian and vegan friends.

I agree with you on experiencing greater variety. Before I became vegetarian, I've never even heard of foods like quinoa, teff, kamut, cherimoya, agave nectar, arrowroot, or tempeh. Vegetarianism also inspired a slight interest in botany.

I avoid restaurants---especially fast food chains---like the Bubonic Plague! Aside from the limited menu, I detest the noise, odor of fried foods, and how crowded it can get in there. The only time I "eat out" is when I arrange a picnic on the beach or woods. Almost all of my meals are prepared at home, and often from scratch.

[diaprbayb]

Since you brought it up, isn't plant "life" you are taking?

[Sunshine2585]

Since you brought it up, isn't plant "life" you are taking?

If you watch the film Notting Hill there is a character who calls herself a fruitarian. She doesn't eat anything unless it has fallen from the tree and was therefore dead before it was cooked. I don't know if there are any people in real life that are fruitarian, but it seems like they would hardly be able to eat anything.

On a side note, i was a vegetarian for about two years. Unfortunatly a bacon sandwich proved too tempting.

[Tuxedo Oryx]

That's an interesting point you brought up, Diaprbayb.

Like all animal species, we humans are heterotrophic. A heterotroph is simply an organism (e.i. a living thing) that must eat other organisms (whether bacteria, plants, fungi, or animals) to obtain the energy their bodies need. (On the other hand, plants are autotrophic. They produce their own energy through photosynthesis, and don't need to eat. However, carnivorous plants like the Venus flytrap, pitcher plant, and sundew must feed on insects to obtain iron and phosphates, since the soil in the wetlands lack these nutrients.)

So, yes, I am taking the life of plants, bacteria, and fungi when I eat them. But in the case of plant parts like seeds and fruits, I am not killing a strawberry plant when I pick and eat the berries. Many species of flowering plants have evolved to produce fruit as a way of transporting their seeds to reduce competition for resources, (e.i. an herbivore like a deer takes an apple away from the tree and drops/passes the seeds in a further location).

As mentioned earlier, I am a vegetarian since it fits into my lifestyle, health, and hobbies. I am not trying to preach that everyone should stop eating/using animal products, nor do I claim to be above other omnivorous or carnivorous people. That's their choice, and none of my business. I fully understand that all living things (bacteria, protists, fungi, plants, and animal) must go through the process of birth and death.

[diaprbayb]

If you watch the film Notting Hill there is a character who calls herself a fruitarian. She doesn't eat anything unless it has fallen from the tree and was therefore dead before it was cooked.

Hmmm sounds good, buuuuuut fruit falling from tree is actually the begining of reproduction of the trees, not death

[Sunshine2585]

Hmmm sounds good, buuuuuut fruit falling from tree is actually the begining of reproduction of the trees, not death

I guess the character didn't really think it through then.

[diapergirl80]

I guess the character didn't really think it through then.

I thought the point of being fruitatarian (sp?) is that the plants willingly give up their fruit and don't suffer in the process.

[Sunshine2585]

I thought the point of being fruitatarian (sp?) is that the plants willingly give up their fruit and don't suffer in the process.

In the film, the character says that by taking fruit off the plant, and cooking it, you are killing it. I think it is the process of taking the fruit from the tree that is seen as the killing it thing, because she then says she only eats things that haven fallen from the tree and were therefore dead already. This was just a character in a film though so i don't know if that is the way a fruitarian thinks in real life.

[jenniebear]

mmmm fruit.....jennie loves fruit....specially fruitloops

o...and jennie isa veggietarian too...da same tind as Tux.....lacto ovo.....

not accuse i don't believe in eatting meat....i live in small town midwest usa.....i understand population control of wild animals etc......

i just don't enjoy meat and i am healthier....more health conscious and more apt to varie-i-tise....my diet...

though i do enjoy a veggie burger at a fast food place now and then......being veggie in the work world requires a lot of preparation and organization.....i really have to think ahead.... if the "girls" are going for lunch out....i can usually find something that will work for me at most places...though healthy choices they probably are not....

[diaprbayb]

I actually remember a belief that some of us envoled from herbavors and some us from carnivors. That's why there are differant Blood types

[Guest]

Just for a show of hands, are there any ABs and DLs who are also vegetarian or vegan?

For almost three years, I have been a lactoovo-vegetarian (sometimes including dairy or eggs). At times I could be considered semi-vegan. When I first started, it was mainly for the sake of curiousity and health reasons, which soon grew onto me. (At that time, cooking became one of my favorite hobbies.)

Don't worry, I'm not a militant eco-preacher who spray-paints fur coats or bombs laboratories that use animal testing. Frankly, I don't really care about what other people eat, and wouldn't bat an eyelash even if you "served mankind."

I'M VEGAN!!! WAHOOO! YAY VEGANISM!!

Since you brought it up, isn't plant "life" you are taking?

This is actually a good point, however...

Animals feel pain, we know this as fact, it's been proven. However there isn't any proof that plants feel pain.

Even if they do, in agriculture, plants grow, get harvested, we eat them. Animals, on the other hand, suffer continuously. The conditions animals are raised in (in most farms, not all farms) are absolutely horrible. Many have open infected wounds, they are castrated and dehorned without anesthesia, and they aren't even killed humanely. Birds that lay eggs suffer even worse conditions. Please do some research on that.

Lastly, the simple fact remains that it takes far more plants to feed the animals and then eat the animals than it does to simply eat the plants in the first place!

[Tuxedo Oryx]

Animals feel pain, we know this as fact, it's been proven. However there isn't any proof that plants feel pain.

Even if they do, in agriculture, plants grow, get harvested, we eat them. Animals, on the other hand, suffer continuously. The conditions animals are raised in (in most farms, not all farms) are absolutely horrible. Many have open infected wounds, they are castrated and dehorned without anesthesia, and they aren't even killed humanely. Birds that lay eggs suffer even worse conditions. Please do some research on that.

Lastly, the simple fact remains that it takes far more plants to feed the animals and then eat the animals than it does to simply eat the plants in the first place!

Indeed, there is evidence of all vertebrate species (from fish to mammals) experiencing pain. I don't know if there are any studies involving invertebrates feeling pain. I'm betting my money that many species could, though I have some doubts about the phylum Porifera (e.i. sponges).

Not only do these animals suffer from physical pain, but also mentally/emotionally. They are often stifled in enviroments that hinder their movement, isolated from their mothers and herd/flock companions; and severely lacking in mental stimulation. All species of livestock are social animals. In fact, sociablity is one of the major prerequisites for domestication. The lack of mental stimulation results in behavioral disturbances like cribbing, weaving, pacing, self-inflicting wounds, and even cannibalism.

This is one of the reasons why I've been cutting down on the use of dairy and egg whites. The consumption of these products has decreased over the years. But when I do need them for recipes, I buy only the ones that are organic, free-ranged, not pumped with drugs like disperate athelete, and whenever possible, from locally raised farms.

As for Diapered_Witch comparing the amount of plant consumption, she does have a point. It takes more resourses to produce a single pound of meat versus a pound of grain. Not only does 70% of the US grain production (and over half of the global grain production) is used to feed livestock, but it takes 2500 gallons of water and about sixteen pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef. In ecology, this process can be expressed in a model called the trophic pyramid of energy or biomass, where between only 5-20% of one level of the food chain/web is passed on to the higher level.

[Andy]

So whats the reason, especially for vegans, avoiding milk and cheese products ?

I don't seem to understand that, the healthy point taken aside since it is always mentioned.

[Tuxedo Oryx]

So whats the reason, especially for vegans, avoiding milk and cheese products ?

I don't seem to understand that, the healthy point taken aside since it is always mentioned.

The main reason why vegans avoid dairy, along with all other animal products, involves ethics. Although, milking a cow doesn't harm it, there are some procedures that vegans are against. First, the cow has the bred since female mammals produce milk after their offspring are born. Since pregnency is taxing on the mother's body, it raises the issue of repeated breeding.

Like most animals raised in factory farms, dairy cows are kept in cramped stalls. Not only does prolonged standing result in limb ailments, but leaves them vulnerable to infections (whether from a sick neighbor, or accumulated manure). Consequently, they are pumped with various drugs like antibodies and growth hormones.

The third argument concerns the calves. Many vegans protest that "we" are taking away milk which is really meant for nurturing their calves. Once a calf is born, the workers usually seperate them from their mothers. Most calves, especially the males, are then slaughtered for veal. The cycle restarts when the cow is finished lactating, and has to be bred again (until she is unable to conceave).

[Tuxedo Oryx]

I almost forget another reason why vegans and vegetarians are wary of dairy. Some dairy products have meat by-products listed as the ingrediants, particularly rennet and gelatin. Rennet is enzyme found in the fourth stomach of cows, especially the younger ones. The enzyme is used to curdle milk, and is found in cheese. Gelatin is boiled from hooves and bones, and used to thicken diary products like sour cream and yogurt. Fortunately, there are alternatives to rennet and gelatin. Agar agar and caragennan can be used in place of gelatin.

[Guest]

As for Diapered_Witch comparing the amount of plant consumption, she does have a point.

The correct term would be "he does have a point".

I am a male witch.

While it is true that my spirit is part female (we are all a certain mix of male and female energies), in this life time, I am currently male.

I am a real Witch. "Witch" is NOT a gender specific term, please refrain from calling me a Warlock, cause I know some of you are thinking it.

Warlock means "oath breaker" or "liar", it's very offensive.

With that said, I've taken no offense in being called female. None of you can see me, and the confusion of "Witch" being a female term is common. Besides, it's not like being a girl would be bad, the 2 genders are equal.

Now, back to our regularly schedualed conversation!

Sincerely,

Diapered Witch

Diapers@Alias.HotPop.com

[Tuxedo Oryx]

I apologise for the gender confusion; should have took a better look at your brief profile. BTW, I didn't know that "warlock" translates to "oath breaker" and "liar." No wonder you avoided that title. Though I've read somewhere that "witch" refers having wisdom. Cool!

Now, back to our regularly schedualed conversation!

Okie-dokie!

[DIAPERPHANTOM]

I apologise for the gender confusion; should have took a better look at your brief profile. BTW, I didn't know that "warlock" translates to "oath breaker" and "liar." No wonder you avoided that title. Though I've read somewhere that "witch" refers having wisdom. Cool!

Okie-dokie!

Tuxie, glad to see you enjoying the boards!!! Very interesting topic and discussion. See you around the boards and in chat...

[Guest]

I apologise for the gender confusion; should have took a better look at your brief profile. BTW, I didn't know that "warlock" translates to "oath breaker" and "liar." No wonder you avoided that title. Though I've read somewhere that "witch" refers having wisdom. Cool!

Okie-dokie!

I know a lot of people have a lot of questions about Witches. If that's the case here, PM me. I take no offense to any question, since I'd rather have somebody ask and be told the truth than to assume a myth. Of course, it's all in HOW you ask. "You worship Satan, don't you?" is obviously different than "Do you worship Satan?", even better would be "Who do you worship?". Like I said, ask and you shall be answered.

If need be, I'll start a new thread on the whole Witch topc.

P.S. Anybody asking me to cast "incontinence spells" (making incontinent, the healing requests are fine) will be quicky ignored. I've already been asked, and it's not appreciated. Oh, and anybody asking me to "crystal ball-up" the winning lotto numbers will be hunted down and slapped!

Random funny thought about Witches...

Imagine if the myth about Witches melting when they get wet was true... "Quick, f-ing change me before I melt!!" LOL!!

[Tuxedo Oryx]

Random funny thought about Witches...

Imagine if the myth about Witches melting when they get wet was true... "Quick, f-ing change me before I melt!!" LOL!!

LOL, indeed!!!

Funny you should mention Satan. One of my favorite shirts is a black t-shirt with five red forks arranged in an inverted pentagram and the phrase "Praise Seitan" printed across the parodied symbol.

For those who aren't familiar with seitan, it has nothing to do with the Anti-Christ. Seitan is actually wheat protein often used as or in meat substitutes.

[Toddler_BobbyP]

No Soup For You!!!

Dyslexic Devil Worshippers Sell Their Souls To Santa

[Tuxedo Oryx]

Somehow the chef almost reminds me of Uncle Sam declaring "I want you!"

Try to say "Dyslexic devil worshippers sell their souls to Santa" five times fast. That would make a great tongue twister! "Dyslexic Devils Worshippers" sounds like a campy exclaimation (think Batman).

[Comet]

I myself have been vegan for the last 15 years. Of course, living in the city I do now makes it much easier to be vegan, but I've definitely lived in places/situations where it wasn't as easy. I think most of the militant convert-everybody-veganism happens with kids who have only been vegan a year or so. I find that I'm still learning more about it every year. The primary reasons for my veganism have changed over the years.

BTW, Hi to Diapered Witch- it's been a while since I've run into you online (I think you had started a Yahoo group for vegetarian ABDLs that got overrun by spammers eventually). Strangely enough, it seems I read about as many posts from other pagans in this community as i do about other vegetarians. Both myself and my girlfriend/babygirl are pagans (Faery faith and Wicca largely, but definitely eclectic). It's nice to see that both vegetarianism and Wicca can be discussed on this board without flamers.