Canadian Election Tomorrow

[drynot]

Hey folks....no matter where you lie in the political spectrum take the time tomorrow and go vote!

[Ozzyfan4077]

Damn right I'll be voting. Vote Right for a Dictator, Vote Left for Democracy. That's what this boils down to. Drynot, don't be afraid to vote for the left despite your Provinces history of voting for the right. Follow Quebec's example and show that other parties can survive in your province.

[aleyxsis]

I will vote .But im just not sure yet what party will will screw us over the least ?? .It is the least of three Evils !!

[Ozzyfan4077]

If only we were still in those naive days of thinking that your vote was for the lesser of three evils. No, there's only one evil at play here, and it's Harper. A power hungry, Democracy dodging asshole of a human being. A vote for the Conservatives is a vote against Democracy and a vote against your very country. Harper has to go, there's no other way.

[drynot]

Well there ya go Ozzy. The people have spoken.....

[Ozzyfan4077]

I hate the provinces west of Ontario, fucking hate them. Like Lemmings they vote Conservative every damn election without even giving a hint of consideration that other parties even exist. Adolf Hitler himself could run for the Conservative party and get a seat out West, its pathetic. In my experience out West I found a lot of Albertans acting condescending toward me because I was from Newfoundland, and they perceived me as stupid because of it. Well, at least my Province had the Political conscience not to vote for a party who's own leader prorogued and deceived their way to the Election in the first place.

But it's fine though, if there's anything left to Canada in four years then just like every Right wing majority before it, they'll piss off everyone to the point where everyone EAST of Manitoba will vote in a Left wing party, hopefully a unified Left wing party. The only consolation in this Election is the decimation of the Bloc.

[drynot]

Actually...if you look at the stats Ozzy you'll notice that in many of the ridings the NDP came in a close second. The election was done before it got passed the Ont border...which is pretty typical.

BC even voted in a Green party member

[BabyDavey]

Ozzyfan4077;

I'll be honest - I don't like the liberals, more specifically, I don't like the liberals as led by Iggy, Steph, Paul or Jean. I may like them with another leader, but right now I simply don't like them. That being said, I don't understand how Newfoundland could elect so many liberals, especially when the rest of the country threw them to the curb. Now, I may not agree with the way someone votes, but I certainly would not call them an idiot or hate them for voting the way they did. I'm actually appreciative of the fact that they did indeed vote.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

-- The Friends of Voltaire, 1906

I understand, you don't like the conservatives (remember, I don't like the Liberals), but the rest of Canada shouldn't vote otherwise just because Ozzyfan said so. They'd certainly be lemmings for sure, if that were the case. And you're right - there are places in this country that will vote for a certain party every single time. One of the ridings that borders mine will vote Liberal, no matter what. The riding I live in has been Conservative (of some form) for every election since 1921, with the exception of 1997, when it went Liberal. There are ridings and demographics that will vote with certain tendencies (left-wing/right-wing) in almost every election. Some might even suggest that some provinces will vote a certain way (perhaps anything but conservative) because their (justifiably) well-like leader asked them to.

Regarding the 'out west' attitude,. It was the same way when my father moved from PEI to Toronto (in 1967. He thought the Leafs were going to win every year. Could he have been any more wrong?). Everybody from down here (regardless of where they were from) were Newfies to some of the 'Upper Canadians". That attitude, though, is not usually held by the employers and supervisors who continuously head hunt for workers out here because the quality and work ethic of the workers is extremely high.

drynot;

Elizabeth May getting elected is excellent. I'm quite happy with that. They need more people in Parliament with the spirit she has. I've been very Green leaning for the past few years, and her non-partisan style is refreshing for me.

[Ozzyfan4077]

Never said I was a Liberal, Not once did I say I was a Liberal. If a label must be affixed to me I'm a Leftist. In my riding the Left winger that stood the best chance of winning was the Liberal candidate, and he also served our riding very well since his previous win. The other ridings, like that of Scott Simms and Gerry Byrne (Oddly enough, there was a Conservative candidate named Jerry Byrne in another riding.), were also served exceptionally well in the previous minority governments. Liberals, with Loyola Hearn being a glaring exception, have been loyal to their province, and until now were at worst, the Official Opposition, hence their repeated success. However, they've been unseated before by the Blue crew, and Provincially, we've been blue for almost ten years under the revolutionary leadership of Danny Williams.

That being said, if you look at many of the blue ridings East of Manitoba (even a scattered one west of it), you'll see a remarkable pheonomenon I call Divided Left Decision. We live in a left wing country aside from Canada's Texas and Alabama a.k.a Alberta and Sask. Unfortunatly, since the Conservatives came under one umbrella there's been only one way for Conservative supporters to vote, and thats with the Harper crew. On the other side of the coin, you have two major parties (NDP and Liberals) and one write-in party (Green), so while the Right stands united, the left vote gets split between the two majors, with a few votes lost to the Greens, but if you add up the two major lefts, Left wins in many cases. But Alberta and Sask can't vote outside the blue box.

We saw Harper pull off things that would get the rest of us fired in from our jobs leading up to this Election, yet the West blindly voted for him and Ontario and the Maritime provinces that aren't Newfoundland got the split left losing to a united right resulting in him not only keeping his job, but basically getting a fucking promotion. If a Right side leader like Danny came along, I'd vote for him, but Harper, is the antithesis of Danny, and the Conservative candidates that tried to get the NL vote were nothing but puppets who were given cushy jobs as Senators, Ambassadors and the head of NALCOR as favours to be repaid when Harper came calling.

Lets see what happens in the next four years, my gut says nothing good. In fact, with the opposition basically helpless to stop Harper and his puppets from passing or doing whatever they want, as with Conservative majorities of the past, people (Alberta and Sask excluded) will be begging for Left wing leadership again.

My only hope is that with a destroyed Bloc and a reeling Liberal party we'll finally see a united left to compete with the Conservatives.

Ozzyfan4077;

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

-- The Friends of Voltaire, 1906

I understand, you don't like the conservatives (remember, I don't like the Liberals), but the rest of Canada shouldn't vote otherwise just because Ozzyfan said so. They'd certainly be lemmings for sure, if that were the case.

Yeah, on the topic of people's right to speak, did you notice how Alberta's chosen one wouldn't even allow the very people he depended on to vote for him to even ask him questions during his campaign?

I never said people had to do what I said, my intention was to open the eyes of Canada's voting public to the deplorable activities of our own leader and to elect new leadership.

[BabyDavey]

I didn't intend to infer that you were a liberal. If I came across that way, my apologies; I wouldn't want to be called a Liberal, either.

In my observation, there is a BIG difference between the Conservatives and the Progressive Conservatives. Former Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams, former New Brunswick Premier Bernard Lord were Progressive Conservatives. I'm a huge fan of both of these politicians. I wouldn't hesitate to vote for either of them in a federal election. The Progressive Conservatives, as their name indicates are just that: progressive. Closer to middle right than they are to right-wing. The Conservatives are the united right. An (unholy?) union of the federal Progressive Conservatives, the Reform and the Canadian Alliance parties. In my humble opinion, the two former have a much higher tendency to be severely right-wing. The union created a toned down version of the Reform party, or a more conservative than progressive Conservative party. (If that makes any sense). If you think Harper is right wing, take a look at the Tea Party in the US. That is about as far-right as you can get. Scary right in my opinion.

Vote splitting is a touchy subject. The liberals, NDP, Bloc and Green are all leftist parties. I voted Green.

I wouldn't have voted Liberal this time around. Didn't like the leader - didn't like the platform.

I wouldn't have voted NDP. As much as I could do the math, I couldn't make Jacks plan make sense in my head. I like Jack, just not what he's saying.

If I were a citizen of Quebec, I wouldn't have voted Bloc. I believe their platform is decidedly selfish and borders on Treason.

If the Liberals and NDP merged with each other and their platforms were similar some bastardized mix of what they have now, I still wouldn't vote for them. If the Green joined in, I still wouldn't have voted that way. In that case I would likely have voted Conservative. If Elizabeth May ran a united left, and the party embodied her spirit, then I would likely go with that party. Assuming that those who voted Liberal would vote for a merged party, or those that voted NDP might vote for a merged party are flawed. Chances are most would. Some/most might. Some might feel they're too left and vote otherwise. It's not guaranteed. It (the merge) did work for the Conservative, but even that union has it's people that aren't satisfied.

I am keeping an open mind for the next four years. Who knows, he might do well.

[Ozzyfan4077]

I'll admit, Iggz was a terrible party leader. Much of the blame for several Ontarian traditional red ridings may have been lost because of him, his own riding included, but my MP is a great guy, and serves our riding very well. I also think that perhaps Justin Trudeau could make a good leader for the party, but that goes back to my original wish for a unified left, and if that were the case I'd be inclined to see Layton lead them. That brings me to the Greens. Aside from May herself they're write-ins, this is not a party I could ever get behind, in my riding and the neighboring ridings in NL they were University students with no idea what they were doing, yet May thought they'd be good candidates? However, she could be a good member of a Unified Left, leader, no, member, yes.

I'm aware of the insanity that is the Tea Party, I agree, EXTREME Right. I also agree with your view on the Bloc, yet believe it or not they're considered Leftists. Hopefully, they get deregistered in the next four years, or become no more a contender than the Rhinocerous party. The Bloc are blatantly self serving and stomp on the other provinces rather than work with them, and everytime ANYONE, right or left, suggests something thats not 100% satisfactory to them they start raving about referendums and seperation.

[BabyDavey]

No doubt about the quality of green outside of May. It reminds me of some of the new NDP MP's in Quebec. They need some time to develop the party, which will happen with funding and time. I think the more people see what she can do, and how she does it, the more people that will take her/them seriously. Once you get people thinking of them seriously, they're bound to get more serious people running in the ridings.

[Ozzyfan4077]

Here's an article from the The Telegram, the main news paper in NL, I think you'll enjoy the read.

http://www.thetelegram.com/Opinion/Columns/2011-05-07/article-2486153/The-best-of-times%2C-the-worst-of-times/1

5.8 mil voted Blue, but as usual, there were far more voting Red or Orange, 7.3 mil total. The Left won, again, but the unified Right

took the title. Makes me hate this three party system, if we were a two party system like the U.S We'd have the left in power right now.

[redneck diaper boy]

The founding fathers of America were afraid of democracy.

The problem with democracy is this. Lets say you are gay. In a pure democracy, they rest of the people could vote in a death penalty for being gay. Majority rule or mob rule is dangerous.

Remember this: Any government that can give you everything that you need is a government that can take what you have.

[Ozzyfan4077]

Uh huh, and a Republic Government can pass such laws as well. As can a Communist, Totalitarian or Monarchy government, your point is?

[BabyDavey]

Normally, with a democracy, those whacked out laws don't pass in the parliament, congress or whatever forum they're introduced in. If they do pass, they've also got to get through the senate (otherwise known as the sober second thought). I don't agree with the Senate as it is represented in Canada (unelected appointees), I would sooner see an elected Senate like our neighbours south of the border.

With a totalitarian government, if the leader doesn't like something he can make a law against it. At least in a democracy there are checkpoints in place.

Those numbers, the amount of people who voted, and who they voted for. I have an interesting argument, Ozzy, and it might provoke some thought from you.

61.4% of Canadian people voted in the past election. That means 38.6% of people didn't vote. In my opinion, if you don't vote, that means you're accepting whoever is elected in the election. So if 39.6% of the people voted conservative, and that is the majority vote of any party (not any wing), than the 38.6% of those who didn't vote also indirectly support them as well. That makes a loose 78.2%. A conservative victory was predicted, though it wasn't known if it would be a majority or a minority. If those people had a fraction of the passion against the conservatives that you have, they would have gotten off the collective asses and voted.

I realise it is a weak argument, but it is valid.

[Ozzyfan4077]

Well...That's a variable stat, sure, there are probably people that felt that way, but there's also those who may have missed their opportunity to vote for some reason, those who didn't like any candidates, etc. So to throw all that on the Conservative vote is unfair. Interesting thought though.

[drynot]

The old 'first past the post' election system. Its not the best IMO but it's what we have right now.....

I think with most people they tend to lie somewhere in the middle of the political spectrum. For instance I'm all for scrapping the long gun registry, a strong military, and some tax breaks for corporations. However I support gay rights and tax relief for the poor.....

There isn't ONE single party here in Canada that shares those political views....

[BabyDavey]

The old 'first past the post' election system. Its not the best IMO but it's what we have right now.....

I think with most people they tend to lie somewhere in the middle of the political spectrum. For instance I'm all for scrapping the long gun registry, a strong military, and some tax breaks for corporations. However I support gay rights and tax relief for the poor.....

There isn't ONE single party here in Canada that shares those political views....

How about the rainbow party. It's Red, Orange, Green and Blue with lots of other colours in between. AFAIK there is no such party, but you could invent it.

[Ozzyfan4077]

The old 'first past the post' election system. Its not the best IMO but it's what we have right now.....

I think with most people they tend to lie somewhere in the middle of the political spectrum. For instance I'm all for scrapping the long gun registry, a strong military, and some tax breaks for corporations. However I support gay rights and tax relief for the poor.....

There isn't ONE single party here in Canada that shares those political views....

Here's the problem with Corporate tax breaks, you won't see tax relief for the poor or working class if you give the corporations the tax breaks. The Right, in an attempt at de-villifying themselves, claims that it will lead to the "Trickle-down effect" well, guess what? That's such a load of bull shit that Penn and Teller would spontaneously combust if they tried to cover it. That creative manipulation of words leads us to believe that by giving the corporations tax it breaks will lead to better paying jobs and/or more employment, well, that money never trickles down past the corporate office, and ends up in the pockets of the rich pigs that got the break in the first place. Also worth noting that a lot of these coprorations are the same ones that took advantage of the free trade agreement brought in to place by Blue man Brian Mulrooney and have all their workers in 3rd World countries working for pennies a day.

Windsor, Ontario never forgot what Mulrooney did to them with Free Trade, thanks to that Windsor saw all it's car plants go to Mexico when the companies that were founded off the working backs of Windsorites and Detroiters decided they were going to take adavantage of the agreement and skip town. Isn't it funny that so called Canadian companies like Bell have all those Call center agents with very thick east indian accents? Oh wait, that's right, thanks to that free trade deal they could stop paying people in Canada $10 (friggin $10, min wage in most cases, maybe they'd pay a bit more now) an hour to speak good English to fellow Canadians and ship that work off to India so they could do it for a fraction of the cost. Bet you'd like to see Bell get a big juicy corportate tax break, that'd make it's way to laid off workers like me, right? right? Oh wait, I'm in Canada, not India.

How about the rainbow party. It's Red, Orange, Green and Blue with lots of other colours in between. AFAIK there is no such party, but you could invent it.

Cut out the Blue, filter down the Green to Elizabeth May and you've got a hell of party. It'll be interesting to see how the Liberals try to rebuild themselves from their absolute devastation. Hopefully the Bloc takes the hint and deregisters.

[drynot]

The problem, Ozzy, is that you can't always get what you want. The Liberals and their ilk have a history of chasing companies from Canada rather than attracting them. The NDP would likely enjoy seeing most of the populace dependant upon the Govt. rather than themselves. Sure...everyone needs a hand up every now and again but we need to stop the hand outs.

Unfortunately money is what makes the world go 'round. Without companies and corporations there would be precious few jobs out there. Good jobs means a good tax base....with that good tax base we can provide many services that Canadians need and want.

It is also unfortunate that plenty of people out there feel entitled to things they just haven't earned. One key to life is to work smart, spend smart, and keep the Govt. at arms length and you'll do just fine.

[BabyDavey]

Reasons like this are why corporate tax cuts are good. Timmy's is a company that had $2.56 Billion in revenue in 2010. Without low taxes, that revenue (and nearly $650 million in income) would be mainly taxed in the USA.

If there is one company like that, I'm sure there are more.