I Can'T Believe It Happened To Me

[LuvsGurl]

Been laid off for over 20 months !! the whole factory not just me .They want less than 100 workers back out of 1200 .We as a union or a collective bargaining unit refuse !

Better a lower paying job than no job at all. My problem with unions is that they all think they are entitled to something. There are millions of people who would gladly take that $12/hr and be happy because it would put a roof over their head and food on the table. But instead you are out there living on government benefits provided through the tax dollars paid by hard working people like me.

I'm getting paid $8.25/hr to work at a glorified adult daycare. I feed people, clean up after them when they've had an accident and look after things so they don't wander off or come to harm. I've saved more than one life through quick action when the client was in the middle of a seizure. I have to wear diapers to work because there are times where it may be hours till I get the opportunity for a toilet break. I've changed clients diapers while mine was full and starting to leak.

Do I get anything extra for this? Nope. If I'm lucky I might get a thank you from someone at the end of the day. I don't like it, but guess what, it's a job. You can't be picky these days, it took me 4 months to get hired on where I am now. If someone offered me a job for $12/hr I'd jump at the chance.

People who have been unemployed for more than a year make me sick. Do you honestly expect to live off the government check for the rest of your life? McD's and Wal-mart are both hiring. It's not a great job, in fact it sucks ass... but it is honest money in your hands at the end of the week and if you don't take it they'll give it to the illegals. Times are tough, but there is still work to be found. If you can't find it where you are then it is time to pack up and go somewhere else. Go to Mexico or Canada if you have to, their people have been coming here seeking opportunity for over 100 years, now our people might have to go there and do the same. Things definitely aren't going to get any better with people sitting around leeching off of the government.

[packrat]

Dogpiss:

Sorry to hear of your dilemma. I've had about the same treatment from a previous employer. I insisted that I would not leave until my personal items were removed with me. They backed down on the matter when I suggested that the police might be my next call if they refused. A member of the HR department sat with me while I packed my stuff. He inspected to see that I didn't take or damage computer files. I did not sign the release from liability as the severance was not worth the ability to sue. (Which I did not subsequently do) For the record my job was upper level management. (Just goes to show you that this shabby treatment is not reserved for any work group.)

My greatest moment came a week later when my former secretary called me to obtain information on how to start-up and open a sophisticated computer program that was operated from my computer. You can only imagine my satisfaction when I told her to 'tell them to go pound sand' (or a less congenial version thereof). My former secretary was a class act and did not take this personally. She indicated that she was directed to make the call and said she told them of my likely reply.

I understood later that it took several weeks and several thousand dollars to have the software firm come in and unscrew the problem.

My advice for anyone is sign nothing, consult with an attorney and don't leave without your personal stuff. In Michigan, if you signed an At Will agreement, you have little legal recourse to fighting the discharge unless you can show a violation of your civil rights (age discrimmination, etc.) or possible discrimmination under ADA law.

Hang in there, when every door closes another one opens. Since my experience life has only been better!

[Puer Aeternus]

Better a lower paying job than no job at all. My problem with unions is that they all think they are entitled to something. There are millions of people who would gladly take that $12/hr and be happy because it would put a roof over their head and food on the table. But instead you are out there living on government benefits provided through the tax dollars paid by hard working people like me.

I'm getting paid $8.25/hr to work at a glorified adult daycare. I feed people, clean up after them when they've had an accident and look after things so they don't wander off or come to harm. I've saved more than one life through quick action when the client was in the middle of a seizure. I have to wear diapers to work because there are times where it may be hours till I get the opportunity for a toilet break. I've changed clients diapers while mine was full and starting to leak.

Do I get anything extra for this? Nope. If I'm lucky I might get a thank you from someone at the end of the day. I don't like it, but guess what, it's a job. You can't be picky these days, it took me 4 months to get hired on where I am now. If someone offered me a job for $12/hr I'd jump at the chance.

People who have been unemployed for more than a year make me sick. Do you honestly expect to live off the government check for the rest of your life? McD's and Wal-mart are both hiring. It's not a great job, in fact it sucks ass... but it is honest money in your hands at the end of the week and if you don't take it they'll give it to the illegals. Times are tough, but there is still work to be found. If you can't find it where you are then it is time to pack up and go somewhere else. Go to Mexico or Canada if you have to, their people have been coming here seeking opportunity for over 100 years, now our people might have to go there and do the same. Things definitely aren't going to get any better with people sitting around leeching off of the government.

its not as easy as that, if you reach a point where you own a house and various other things and not to mention children it becomes harder to just pack up and leave. You would presumably sell the house, which is difficult, or run and have it foreclose, probably still be in debt and have a poor credit history. If you are at a middle management level, like so many are, then your experience is overshadowed by the number of applicants; to top it off you cant easily get a walmart job because you are overqualified and no one will hire you. I know alot of students who graduated recently and finally broke down and applied at bigboxes and mcDs and have one or two maybe get an interview but then told that their bachelor's makes them overqualified and the employer is afraid they'll be bored.

moving out of the country creates more legal trouble as well.

and that unemployment has been paid by everybody including employers its there for just such an occasion, how many times have you ever heard the unemployment fund running low or cause government hardships. Unlike the social security system its pretty well thought out.

[underwhere]

I was laid off in the spring of '09 much the same way.....one minute I'm working away in the shop and the next I'm being escorted off the property by security. Fortunately I was able to gather my personal effects before they booted me out the door....

Times are defintely tough out there. I wish anyone out there looking for work the best of luck. Perhaps you could take this time to upgrade your skillset and make yourself more employable? It worked out very well for myself....

The more skills you have, the less money they will have to pay somebody in India or China to do your work. (The cost of living is also substantially less over there. I think it might be worth considering moving there. I am only half joking.)

The game today is essentially ruled by profits on Wall Street. Lower expenses, increase earnings, increase bonuses to upper management and dividends to stock holders. Employees? Good pay? Who needs them! More ants for squashing. Thats the game today.

Good paying jobs are getting more and more difficult to find, particularly since a good paying job implies the ability to sell a product or service at a rate people could afford to pay to allow for the employee to make a reasonable living. Now enter, on stage right, a multi-billion dollar corporation or two which makes its money by paying people LESS to do the work. Its no wonder that people can not afford to buy things. Yes, it increases short term profits, but long term, you lose a consumer base. Now enter, on stage left, credit card companies who float money to consumers on the premise of a short-term loan, banks who float exotic mortgages to consumers on the premise they will be able to pay back the piper later, and consumers who have no choice but to use their loans to pay for immediate expenses because their income is so low they can not afford an alternative, and you have a recipe for a good old-fashioned game of economic dominoes. And some economists are stumped at why the recession is taking so long to exit?

Yes, go out and learn new skills, but do not expect your new skills to earn you better pay. It might get your foot in the door to actually get the job, and that can be good by itself, but it is unlikely to earn you more pay when competing in a world economy where a corporation can hire somebody else to do your work somewhere else in the world at half the cost (or less) to hire you. Remember, if it doesn't improve the bottom line from the view of stockholders and corporate, your SOL. There is no such thing anymore as an "indispensible employee". Get used to the idea.

All of the preceeding assumes a world economy based upon capitalism's design of "race to the economic bottom". In some parts of the world, this does not apply, but those parts are few and far between, and always reviled by countries and Wall Street who care more about reducing the cost of labor to increase profits than about creating a sustainable economy.

[underwhere]

Better a lower paying job than no job at all. My problem with unions is that they all think they are entitled to something. There are millions of people who would gladly take that $12/hr and be happy because it would put a roof over their head and food on the table. But instead you are out there living on government benefits provided through the tax dollars paid by hard working people like me.

This is not entirely accurate. Unions are rendered almost completely ineffective today, and have been for a number of years, by the combination of Taft-Hartley and the National Labor Relations Act. This doesn't even mention all of the court cases which have been decided in the interests of industry over labor. Nor does this mention how many times the US military has been called on to squash any number of labor uprisings in the USA, with the Haymarket Affair being just one of many examples. In any event, unions typically get smeared by industry insiders to make it appear that they are getting a better deal. The truth is that we all deserve what unions can get, but many types of jobs do not require the government or corporations to recognise unions if formed by any number of classes of workers prohibited from forming them. (I don't personally think unions are the way to go because of their rendered ineffectiveness by the trade-offs one must make by becoming a union compared to what one can do without forming a union. Sit-down strikes, hot cargo agreements, secondary boycotts, mass picket lines, sympathy strikes, all are currently legally prohibited tactics for unions to engage in. Of course, these were also the tactics which had previously allowed unions to gain power and reasonable pay and working conditions for their workers.) Temp workers, independent contractors, domestic workers, farm workers, prison labor (typically used to replace what would otherwise be relatively high paying jobs for less than minimum wage pay for the prisoners) and other groups of people are explicitly prohibited from unionizing. Actually, it winds up being well over 50% of the workforce today specifically legally disqualified from forming a union. Gotta love that "Freedom of Association" clause in that wonderful US Constitution. hmmmmmm.

Anyway, there are rather few parts of the country that $12 an hour will actually put a roof over your head (assuming you don't live in subsidized housing somewhere) and leave you with enough money for food, clothing, toiletries, heat, electricity, rent/mortgage, health care (and insurance).

Unions are entitled to something, but the REAL truth is you should be entitled to the same things unions are entitled to. Unfortunately, actually forming a union, if you are not already part of the prohibited class of people who could not legally do so by federal law, can take years, and corporations can, and have, closed up shop and moved elsewhere before allowing that to happen.

I'm getting paid $8.25/hr to work at a glorified adult daycare. I feed people, clean up after them when they've had an accident and look after things so they don't wander off or come to harm. I've saved more than one life through quick action when the client was in the middle of a seizure. I have to wear diapers to work because there are times where it may be hours till I get the opportunity for a toilet break. I've changed clients diapers while mine was full and starting to leak.

Do I get anything extra for this? Nope. If I'm lucky I might get a thank you from someone at the end of the day. I don't like it, but guess what, it's a job. You can't be picky these days, it took me 4 months to get hired on where I am now. If someone offered me a job for $12/hr I'd jump at the chance.

But why aren't you paid more for the work you do? Could it be because somebody somewhere is more interested in profiteering at the expense of you, an employee, than they are in the quality of work you perform? Or maybe it's because the company you work for is a publically traded company, and those pesky stock holders are always wanting a better return on their investment dollar? To keep their stock prices high, you, the employee, get your wages reduced to a miniscule level. (The owner of your company likely gets to invest in stock options which can then buy shares of stock at a severelty reduced rate which can then be sold the very same day for a huge profit. Thats your good work and wages he or she is pocketing.) Some companies hire volunteers, yes volunteers at no charge to them, even though they are publically traded companies who could afford to pay a more reasonable wage than $0.00.

Should you get a lot more money for your work? Absolutely, but there are some good reasons you are not being paid so well, chiefly, an inability to organise with your fellow workers to improve ALL of yoru pay and working conditions. As an independent contractor, you could not form a union anyway, but that doesn't mean you should not be able to do so.

People who have been unemployed for more than a year make me sick. Do you honestly expect to live off the government check for the rest of your life? McD's and Wal-mart are both hiring. It's not a great job, in fact it sucks ass... but it is honest money in your hands at the end of the week and if you don't take it they'll give it to the illegals. Times are tough, but there is still work to be found. If you can't find it where you are then it is time to pack up and go somewhere else. Go to Mexico or Canada if you have to, their people have been coming here seeking opportunity for over 100 years, now our people might have to go there and do the same. Things definitely aren't going to get any better with people sitting around leeching off of the government.

Actually, the whole idea of "illegals" is a red herring. Big companies LOVE to hire "illegals". Why? Think about it from their perspective: They are illegal aliens, therefore unable to report both poor working conditions and inadequate pay. If they do speak up, they are likely to be deported, or worse. So-called "illegals" are therefore stuck in what is essentially modern-day slave labor. Big companies love this. This makes even more profits for them, and better yet, it causes working class people to fight one against the other instead of taking on the companies which deliberately promote and continue this practice for their own financial gains, and the governments which allow such exploitation to occur. Please, don't blame the worker for being hoodwinked into a situation even they can not bare. Blame the corporations for taking advantage of these people and trying (often successfully) to get the rest of us to blame them for doing exactly what we would do to survive were we to be in their shoes, and the government for assisting these corporations every step along the way to millions and billions of dollars of profits.

Big corporations also know it is cheaper to produce goods in some parts of the world (because the cost of labor is cheaper there) and sell those products at the same price they would have sold it at anyway, increasing their profit margins. What they do not see if how this directly affects the buying power of a consumer base. If I have no money because I am working a job paying $8.25 an hour which barely covers (if it does cover) my basic living expenses, how on earth am I going to be able to "keep the economy moving, spend spend spend"? A person should not need to choose between food, shelter, medical care, utilities, and clothing. If you work hard, you should be able to afford them all, but under our current economic system, that is not possible.

As for living off of unemployment, it would be a lot easier not to do that if there were sufficient number of jobs, good paying jobs, to not require people to be further villified for "living off of welfare" while they work 80 hours a week and still live in poverty.

There is a solution, though it will take a long time to do successfully. Get organized! If all workers of the world were to stand up and say "We deserve better!", the corporate world headed up by Wall Street and capitalism would shake, and chances are if we did it right, we would get our needs met. But this must be carefully planned. Failures are abundant in the history of similar movements. We must learn from those mistakes, and build a better course of action.

[Bettypooh]

The game today is essentially ruled by profits on Wall Street. Lower expenses, increase earnings, increase bonuses to upper management and dividends to stock holders. Employees? Good pay? Who needs them! More ants for squashing. Thats the game today.

Good paying jobs are getting more and more difficult to find, particularly since a good paying job implies the ability to sell a product or service at a rate people could afford to pay to allow for the employee to make a reasonable living. Now enter, on stage right, a multi-billion dollar corporation or two which makes its money by paying people LESS to do the work. Its no wonder that people can not afford to buy things. Yes, it increases short term profits, but long term, you lose a consumer base. Now enter, on stage left, credit card companies who float money to consumers on the premise of a short-term loan, banks who float exotic mortgages to consumers on the premise they will be able to pay back the piper later, and consumers who have no choice but to use their loans to pay for immediate expenses because their income is so low they can not afford an alternative, and you have a recipe for a good old-fashioned game of economic dominoes. And some economists are stumped at why the recession is taking so long to exit?

And there you have it The economy's problem is really being driven by greedy people who are allowed to make short-term investments and reap short-term profits, then leave the raped corpse behind as they pull their investment for elsewhere to rape again Corporate decisions are no longer made based on what is best overall- they are made solely based on what is going to let them keep their overpaid management jobs, and that, dear heart, is short-term profits which kill in the long term.

There is no such thing anymore as an "indispensible employee". Get used to the idea.

In most situations this is true, however jobs that require developed talent are different. I replaced 4 people when I went to work for my present employer because I was better than they were at what they were doing. It's not that I am that good- I was just better than them and I am very, very good at what I do. It took years of effort to get this good and it's something you can't learn in a classroom. If anyone can go to school and learn it, it is not that secure or really of that high a value even if the world currently see this differently This truth is driving us down because it isn't what we've been taught, so the system is collapsing because it wasn't based on truth. Let's see them replace Michelangelo halfway through the Sistine Chapel job What school did he go to in order to follow his talent? NONE! You make yourself irreplaceable by doing what you do best, not necessarily by going to school to learn the same skills that thousands of others have equally or better than you. Everyone does something better than anyone else in the world does- make that your life's pursuit and you will be successful and irreplaceable! Go for more money elsewhere and you risk being put in your true place.

Anyway, there are rather few parts of the country that $12 an hour will actually put a roof over your head (assuming you don't live in subsidized housing somewhere) and leave you with enough money for food, clothing, toiletries, heat, electricity, rent/mortgage, health care (and insurance).

I know a lot of people who live on that or less, though almost none of them have healthcare insurance Not to take this off-topic, but that is why healthcare has become a national issue. As to unions, in principle they can do a lot to help- in reality they are just as guilty of driving the good jobs with good money away as the greedy investors Had they been run efficiently without adopting a corporate structure themselves; had they not created their own internal political system; and had they not ate half of the extra money they brought employees then they wouldn't find themselves on the wane. The same greed and power mindset killed or is killing unions. At some point paying an employee excessive wages ensures that their job will go somewhere that doesn't cost as much, and unions can't stop that from happening. Nobody deserves to be paid $30+ an hour to bolt on a fender but to keep the union structure alive that level of pay was necessary. Goodbye Detroit, you were once the greatest in the world but now you're seeing the reality of what out-of-control unions do and I feel no sympathy for you or the people who supported those unions just to make more money than they were worth. May you always get your true rewards in full

its not as easy as that, if you reach a point where you own a house and various other things and not to mention children it becomes harder to just pack up and leave

Once upon a time I had a reputation for not taking any crap from the bosses on the job. The business I was in was booming and an equal or better job was only a few days away if you wanted to look for it. One day my bosses boss PO'ed me so at 10 AM I told him what I thought and I walked off. That evening I found out that half of my crew left shortly after me for the same reason, and those with families and obligations left within days as they found better jobs. Just because I alone stood up, they lost a crew and no union was involved or needed. The fool who caused it all was fired a few days later after refusing to be demoted to the level where he belonged and deserved to be I never intended to be a hero, I just left because it was the right thing to do. Therein lies another problem- you can't be scared to quit or you empower your employer to abuse you, and they most certainly will! It has nothing to do with your having a family or mortgage- you created those yourself willingly without thinking about all of what they implied which wasn't being smart at all- so if you use them for an excuse you are only compounding your lack of smarts. It is all about holding to your morality regardless of anything else. It may hurt to take that stand but when you don't take it you are helping create the problem too The bare truth is that there is no security in any job, so don't treat a job like there is- and don't make more obligations than you can sustain under the worst of circumstances!

As to illegals, I can't blame them for wanting to better themselves. I do blame the corporations for their immorality in hiring them, and especially I blame our government for not adequately enforcing our laws. The reason there are limits to immigration is because our economy cannot support that big an influx of new people anymore. They too are killing our economy by reducing pay levels by working cheaper that we will. No job that needs doing will ever go undone- the only factor is how much that job will pay and those pay levels do not reflect reality. For instance farm labor is some really hard work. We demand low food prices. To be realistic we will have to accept that growing food costs more than we like to pay, then pay for it's true value. That farm laborer is more important to your life than the President of Apple or the President of the US- you can live without their products but you have to eat yet look at which business reaps more profit and pays their workers more- yes, as a society we have a very screwed up value system.

If you are at a middle management level, like so many are, then your experience is overshadowed by the number of applicants; to top it off you cant easily get a walmart job because you are overqualified and no one will hire you. I know alot of students who graduated recently and finally broke down and applied at bigboxes and mcDs and have one or two maybe get an interview but then told that their bachelor's makes them overqualified and the employer is afraid they'll be bored.

Then it's time to learn some street smarts Where is the law that says you have to reveal that you earned a degree somewhere? There isn't one! You never reveal all your cards until you need to. If the job you're applying for is at such a low level they aren't going to spend a lot of time researching their applicants for such things- they're going to be looking for the basics only like criminal records and firings. Even if your hand doesn't hold the winning cards you can often win by playing it right All an employer wants is the best employee for the job. Make yourself seem like that person and you can work the rest out later after you've been hired and have proven yourself. There's a fair number of people who leave a field of work they have a degree in for a number of legitimate reasons; dissatisfaction with future possibilities, finding that you don't want to do that kind of work, believing that that industry is failing and you want to get a head start on another field of work before the exodus sets in

You have but two choices- play the system their way as you sell off your morals, or maintain your morals and try to get others to follow along with you. The first way used to guarantee financial success but it no longer does that- the second way has always allowed for peace in your soul and always will even if it leaves you poor. You decide which one matters the most to you, all the while remembering what kind of people it is that is causing the current economic woes this nation is experiencing because that is the real problem in a nutshell. And there is only one way to end that problem, even if it hurts.

Sheesh, sorry for the long post but I had a lot to say. I hope you now see what I do and follow my problem-solving logic of boiling things down to the one real problem that causes all the other symptoms, because by solving that core problem all the other problems it caused simply disappear and the cure becomes permanent.

Bettypooh

[drynot]

Not every job out there is based on 'world economics'. While most consumer goods are produced on world economic scales there is a whole host of careers that need not revolve around 'producing' a product. It is a shame that the manufacturing sector in North America is dwindling down to obscurity losing many high paying jobs in the process. However if one is willing to put in the effort and re-train for another career, then they will be rewarded with a decent income down the road....

[dogpiss]

Well, I've scored an interview at a world-wide recognised NGO. It's strange that out of all the resumes I sent out, only an NGO has wanted to interview me so far, and seems genuinely glad to give me the opportunity. It is a really good organization, so here's hoping for the best! Wish me luck! Even if you don't like me, throw a poor dog a bone so I can make enough money to pay my internet bill and see you criticize me on-line My interview is TUESDAY (I 22211 sounded like a lucky day... or a zip code somewhere in VA).

Good luck to everyone else out there and thanks for your support and listening to my rants. It really has helped, and I hope it has given you at least some 2nd rate entertainment.

In a strange twist of irony, my former employer took over the old HQ building of the NGO for which I am interviewing and I was part of the transition team when custody of the building was handed over.

[sarah_ab]

for lots of people they make more on unemployment than they would working for $8.25 an hour... and for someone who was used to making say 44K a year, they budgeted their bills and lifestyle accordingly, they bought a house maybe, and a car, and went on a few family vacations using credit cards, they took out some loans to help their child go to college... because at 44k a year perhaps they could afford that...

then they lost their job... unemployment is based on how much you made at your old job... so for lots of people unemployment is more than the min. wage job... so unemployment allows them to keep their home while mcdonalds job doesnt.

[underwhere]

High-Tech is also moving to India and China, drynot. I don't fault the Chinese or the Indians. Labor costs are cheaper there. The governments their provide much needed infrastructure to allow for this expansion, and the cost of living is also much cheaper there, thus lower wages to a Chinse or Indian person is not such a big deal, because they can actually afford to live on those lower wages under their current economic systems. Corporations love such easy pickings. Manufacturing and mining is also being exported from Africa, often tainting natural resources to unusability in the process, where environmental regulations are lax, if existant at all. (Granted, corporations tend to ignore environmental factors all over the world if it gets in the way of profits being made.)

It really doesn't matter what your job is. Big corporations care only about their bottom line as far as production goes. What many of them forget is that once they have produced something, whether it be tangible or intangible goods, somebody still has to be able to afford to buy what is produced. When larger and larger corporations keep gobbling up smaller and smaller ones in comparison, and laying off people in the process, all in the interests of being able to increase profits, who can stop them? People have tried with companies like Walmart, but the problem with that is that people can no longer afford to shop elsewhere. When the economics wind up essentially being a race to the bottom, and nobody can afford to buy anything anymore, we have an economic depression. While this happens, the rich can wait idly by as the poor fight a constant battle for survival, blaming everybody except for the people who are responsible for creating the mess in the first place.

The economic problem in a nutshell is that no economy is sustainable in the long term if it is only a service based economy. You need both services and manufacturing to create a healthy economy. If one or both are missing, the economy will go missing also.

Individuals can not win this battle with individual feets of luck or skill. An orchestrated well-thought-out plan is required to ultimately achieve change, but until those of us who produce can also be in charge of the means of production, such change is unlikely to be successful. It is still worth fighting for, but it is a long way off from being a suiccessful fight.