A Letter To The Diapered Community

[TDL]

No, I'm saying we should listen to each other and respect each other’s preferences equally.

Ahh, okay! Sorry!

[GeekSquad_in_Diapers]

Ahh, okay! Sorry!

It's fine, I hade a hard time wrighting that post anyway.

[PrincessDragonette]

I think disagreement is a good thing. I agree with Jefferson:

‎"that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them." - Thomas Jefferson

Of course, since Jefferson we have learned that truth is irrelevant in a discussion. That even when presented evidence that they're wrong, many people will not only continue to believe what they believed before, but their erroneous belief is stronger. So I say strike a balance, offer your perspective on something, the "facts" as you see them, and allow the other party to do the same. Maybe a few bouts back and forth, but in the end, when it's obvious you're both entrenched in your beliefs, walk away and agree to disagree. If we chose to hate/flame everyone that disagreed with us, we'd tread a very lonely path. I'd rather not lose a potential friend, even if they're wrong, than to walk around alone 'knowing' that I'm right and they're pathetic, horrible people for not seeing that . As Nietzsche said "It is impossible to change with reasons that which they have learned to believe without reasons". Paraphrase since I can't find the quote .

I do know that many people would rather be right than have friends, and that's their choice. I can't say I blame them, it is difficult to bite your tongue. Especially if you KNOW you're right .

Anyway, my random thoughts on the subject in question . Interesting NPR interview on belief here.

[GeekSquad_in_Diapers]

I think disagreement is a good thing. I agree with Jefferson:

Of course, since Jefferson we have learned that truth is irrelevant in a discussion. That even when presented evidence that they're wrong, many people will not only continue to believe what they believed before, but their erroneous belief is stronger. So I say strike a balance, offer your perspective on something, the "facts" as you see them, and allow the other party to do the same. Maybe a few bouts back and forth, but in the end, when it's obvious you're both entrenched in your beliefs, walk away and agree to disagree. If we chose to hate/flame everyone that disagreed with us, we'd tread a very lonely path. I'd rather not lose a potential friend, even if they're wrong, than to walk around alone 'knowing' that I'm right and they're pathetic, horrible people for not seeing that . As Nietzsche said "It is impossible to change with reasons that which they have learned to believe without reasons". Paraphrase since I can't find the quote .

I do know that many people would rather be right than have friends, and that's their choice. I can't say I blame them, it is difficult to bite your tongue. Especially if you KNOW you're right .

Anyway, my random thoughts on the subject in question . Interesting NPR interview on belief here.

Of course disagreement is not a bad thing, I never said that it was. I just think we should be less cut-throat about it.

[BlackoutSunset]

I'm not saying disagreement is a bad thing. But the cut throat way it offten happens on this site is a little overboard. Who cares if because someone likes when their diapers wet and another when its dry that they can't share their experiences without totally ripping eachother apart. This is just an example FYI.

[PrincessDragonette]

Of course disagreement is not a bad thing, I never said that it was. I just think we should be less cut-throat about it.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear, I wasn't singling any one post out, that's why I didn't quote anyone . That was more my random thoughts on the subject. I hopefully made it clear that I disagree with the cut-throatedness that exists everywhere (in R/L and every web forum I've ever seen). The problem is when you advocate any kind of live and let live philosophy you have to accommodate all the cut-throats too. I disagree with their tactics, but I agree that they should have the right to use them and suffer the consequences for them (i.e., being iggy'ed or having few to no friends), which in turn is me supporting your (and my) view that there should be less cut-throatedness (I like made up words ).

[BlackoutSunset]

I just feel that the younger DL's sometimes don't have a place to go without having older onces around who offten act like parents. And I personally would like to have a space where some of the younger DL's could go and not be bothered by older ones. I know, won't happen.

[rusty pins]

I just feel that the younger DL's sometimes don't have a place to go without having older onces around who offten act like parents. And I personally would like to have a space where some of the younger DL's could go and not be bothered by older ones. I know, won't happen.

Just wondering what the older AB/DL's are saying to you or doing that is bothering you. If they are hitting on you and being nasty, that's not right and they should back off! If they are just posting or giving some experienced advice, whats bothering you about that?

[BlackoutSunset]

It's harder to relate.

[GeekSquad_in_Diapers]

It's harder to relate.

What do you mean? They were in their twenties once.

[BlackoutSunset]

However, it was a different era. I just find it easier to discuss my diaper likes and dislikes with someone my own age, or near to it at least.

[sarah_ab]

However, it was a different era. I just find it easier to discuss my diaper likes and dislikes with someone my own age, or near to it at least.

this is definitely your own hangup... you are going to have to learn how to relate to people who are older than you... maybe not sexually, but if you want to get anywhere in todays professional world, you are going to have to learn how to interact get along and socialize with those of alllll ages... and this means not seeming uncomfortable around them... people pick up on that.... sides its the internet... how do we know you are even just 20? maybe YOU are 67!!! lol

[Guest Poopy Wipes]

Being in a different generation DOES make all the difference.

I have never been able to successfully hold a conversation with an old person about Dane Cook or "that yellow sponge who is in the water".

From doohickeys to watchamacalits, old people are just that: old.

The inverse is also true of people my age: an old person can't hold a conversation with me about telegrams and "that war up ahead...WW2".

[PrincessDragonette]

I despise generalizations, I've met plenty of elderly people that love Spongebob AND Dane Cook (don't get his humor myself, prefer Carlin, Black or Cho) and I've met plenty of young people that can't stand either. Even if it were true, and it is of some elderly people, it never hurt me to have a conversation or two about "that war up ahead...WW2" though I've never heard it called that. Some really cool stories, of lives fully lived and people loved, told by elderly people.

I don't have difficulty carrying on conversations with people from any age group. It's just a communication skill in general, you find a topic of mutual interest and you discuss it. Or sometimes you listen and maybe learn something (notice I didn't say listen to your elders, just LISTEN, you can learn from young people too).

I don't care either way if you don't want to interact with a certain group or not, it's your choice. I just hate to see you miss out on some really, really cool people because you made a generalization about how a group of people act. People are individuals and they each act differently. Give everyone a fresh slate when you meet them, and if you don't like them, it should be for reasons that they embody in themselves, not because of how a group that YOU placed them in acts.

Just my opinion of course.

[WallaWalla]

You guys can say age is just a number all you want, but if you're under a certain age you were exposed to different things in upbringing and thus will tend to have a different outlook on life.

I haven't seen any kind of express bias against older people being promoted here. I've just seen some people who are claiming that they find people who are closer to their age more easy to relate to. Frankly, I am one to agree with them. This doesn't mean that I can't learn things from older people, it just means that they are on a different wavelength for the most part.

[KittenAB]

You guys can say age is just a number all you want, but if you're under a certain age you were exposed to different things in upbringing and thus will tend to have a different outlook on life.

I haven't seen any kind of express bias against older people being promoted here. I've just seen some people who are claiming that they find people who are closer to their age more easy to relate to. Frankly, I am one to agree with them. This doesn't mean that I can't learn things from older people, it just means that they are on a different wavelength for the most part.

o.O Actually, that's a myth. Here's what we hear today:

"Video games are making kids more violent and sexually active."

Here's what I heard as a kid:

"TV is making kids more violent and sexually active."

Here's what my best friend (10 years older than me) heard:

"Rock and Roll is making kids more violent and sexually active."

Notice, the mediums changes but the attitude stays the same. Often the generations try so hard at being different that they fail to see how much the same they really are. But we did have almost the same experiences when we were at younger ages, we all had to learn to walk, all had to go to school, all had to deal with social interactions, and all had to deal with parents telling us what's right and wrong (which strangely is still the same after all these centuries). The only difference is what's considered "cool", which is usually never truly "cool" but just what someone told you was in the first place. So yeah, we were all there, we do understand, and a few of us do try to remember. Otherwise I would blame kids for everything, but I don't, I blame my own generation, the parents today.

[WallaWalla]

Yes, I'm sure that technology and cultural revolution has nothing to do with the attitude of people. That's pure a myth, and the human psyche has remained more or less unchanged since neolithic times.

Tell me KittenAB, are gay people more accepted today than they were 50 years ago? Do you think that older people might have a harder time accepting gay people than younger people? Do you think there might be reasons related to cultural evolution and technology involved in that if so?

I've also noticed that the demographics of those adhering to a certain belief system changes with time as well. As does literacy rate. As does IQ. As does lifespan. As does the % of our income that we spend on our food. I wonder if things like that might have something to do with how people view the world?

I did not attend a school which was racially segregated. Don't you think that my views on race might be a little different than those of somebody who did on account of that? What about the economic differences? Did you know that my grandmother grew up on a farm? Did you know that a larger percentage of the population 100 years ago in the United States were rural farmers? Do you think that things like that have an impact on how people think by chance? She also talks about this thing called the "Great Depression," evidently a bunch of crops blew away and people had a hard time finding food or a job. She says it's always best to pinch your pennies because you never know what is going to happen. I wonder if something like that depression thing could have changed how she viewed the world?

What about how my grandfather fought in a war? People sure seem to say that has an impact on how a person views things. It might be a myth, but gee golly whiz he sure does act weird sometimes because of it. He also talks about how his parents left to work in a factory in California while he slept on the floor of a roller rink that he had managed to get a job at. He also yells about 'the niggers' a lot too, I wonder why he has such a chip on his shoulder about other races. I mean gee, it's not like his background should influence his way of thinking or anything like that, that's a myth after all!

So yeah, I'm sorry, but somebody that is 50 years old doesn't have a clue what I am going through or what the world is like for a suburban teenager these days. The world changes, and so do the people in it. I don't see how you can explain cultural drift any other way.

[KittenAB]

Yes, I'm sure that technology and cultural revolution has nothing to do with the attitude of people. That's pure a myth, and the human psyche has remained more or less unchanged since neolithic times.

1)

Tell me KittenAB, are gay people more accepted today than they were 50 years ago? 2) Do you think that older people might have a harder time accepting gay people than younger people? 3) Do you think there might be reasons related to cultural evolution and technology involved in that if so?

I've also noticed that the demographics of those adhering to a certain belief system changes with time as well. As does literacy rate. As does IQ.

I did not attend a school which was racially segregated. Don't you think that my views on race might be a little different than those of somebody who did on account of that? What about the economic differences? Did you know that my grandmother grew up on a farm? Did you know that a larger percentage of the population 100 years ago in the United States were rural farmers? Do you think that things like that have an impact on how people think by chance?

What about how my grandfather fought in a war? People sure seem to say that has an impact on how a person views things. It might be a myth, but gee golly whiz he sure does act weird sometimes because of it. He also talks about how his parents left to work in a factory in California while he slept on the floor of a roller rink that he had managed to get a job at. He also yells about 'the niggers' a lot too, I wonder why he has such a chip on his shoulder about other races. I mean gee, it's not like his background should influence his way of thinking or anything like that, that's a myth after all!

1: No - Gay people are still just as assaulted as they were before, the only difference is now they have parades.

2: No - Still doesn't mean that the older generations haven't been through the same things.

3: No - Though not entirely sure I get the question.

As for the rest, nothing you mentioned makes any difference on generations, there are still farms today, many of my online friends live in rural areas. There are many many segregated schools, even in the US. There's several wars still going on today. ... none of this makes any difference on generation. The differences are purely cultural and location based. So, to say that generations have different lives is a myth, we have all been through different lives but each generation encounters the same problems while growing up.

[WallaWalla]

http://www.agseminary.edu/faculty/faculty_publications/articles/creps_generations_chart.pdf

You're in lala land if you think gay people are just as discriminated against as they were 50 years ago.

EDIT:

many of my online friends

Just stop and think about that.

Many of your online friends.

And I'm sorry, but the percentage of people living in rural areas has dwindled. Yes, there are still people there, but the overall trends have changed. Where are these racially segregated schools that you speak of by the way? I wasn't aware that we were rationing rubber for our wars in the middle east currently either. There's a draft going on now?

The differences are purely cultural and location based

Ever think that culture might change with time?

I'm sure that Ancient Romans thought just like us too. Same thing, just different religion, technology,language, and time period.

[KittenAB]

http://www.agseminary.edu/faculty/faculty_publications/articles/creps_generations_chart.pdf

You're in lala land if you think gay people are just as discriminated against as they were 50 years ago.

EDIT:

Just stop and think about that.

Many of your online friends.

And I'm sorry, but the percentage of people living in rural areas has dwindled. Yes, there are still people there, but the overall trends have changed. Where are these racially segregated schools that you speak of by the way? I wasn't aware that we were rationing rubber for our wars in the middle east currently either. There's a draft going on now?

Ever think that culture might change with time?

I'm sure that Ancient Romans thought just like us too. Same thing, just different religion, technology,language, and time period.

o.O Okay .. to the gay thing, they are still put to death in many areas, there are many laws still making it illegal for them to even exist in areas (even in the US) ... and here in Seattle violence against gay couples has actually increased in the last decade. As for the percentage of people living in rural areas declining? Not even, go down to Mexico, or even to Canada, there are tons there. There are even people in the UK living in rural areas still. Go across the globe sometime, you'll see, little has changed anywhere. Also, we are rationing our oil for the wars, as for draft, that changes very little. You are still equating age differences with cultural differences, there are many many cultures out there, and those are still the same, the number of those in each shifts over time, but they never really change. There are religious zealots still pushing their idea of what's right on people just as there were more than 2000 years ago, there is still an "in" crowd in every country that varies based on the country, fundamentally we as a species has not changed much. So yes, even my generation has gone through what kids are going through today, the guises change, but the impact and even solutions do not. The problem is that no one talks across generation lines about them ... the younger ones like to think they have it worse, and the older ones like to feel superior because of age, but really we aren't that different.

Case in point, a lot of "new" medical technology came from advances made 4000 years ago, they still hold true today we just conveniently forgot them.

[WallaWalla]

o.O Okay .. to the gay thing, they are still put to death in many areas, there are many laws still making it illegal for them to even exist in areas (even in the US) ... and here in Seattle violence against gay couples has actually increased in the last decade.

Okay, are BLACK PEOPLE just as discriminated against in the United States today as they were 50 years ago?

As for the percentage of people living in rural areas declining? Not even, go down to Mexico,or even to Canada, there are tons there. There are even people in the UK living in rural areas still. Go across the globe sometime, you'll see, little has changed anywhere.

Okay first off, the fact that there ARE people living in rural areas is not a counterargument to the assertion made on my part that we have become more urbanized in general.

The rapid urbanisation of the world’s population over the twentieth century is described in the 2005 Revision of the UN World Urbanization Prospects report. The global proportion of urban population rose dramatically from 13% (220 million) in 1900, to 29% (732 million) in 1950, to 49% (3.2 billion) in 2005

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization

Neither one of us lives in Mexico and this is a complete strawman. There are generational differences between people within the same area over the course of 100 years. Also, Mexico is more urbanized now than it has EVER been. The percentage has went down, even if it is not all the way there to developing yet.

Also, we are rationing our oil for the wars, as for draft, that changes very little. You are still equating age differences with cultural differences, there are many many cultures out there, and those are still the same, the number of those in each shifts over time, but they never really change.

The culture my grandparents grew up in is different from the culture I grew up in. The culture of the 90s is different from the culture of the 2000s, which is in turn different from the culture of the 20s.

The draft changes very little? Having millions of people from a population forcibly drafted into military service and then losing a significant percentage of them doesn't change much? What? You mean to say that the Holocaust didn't change much? You mean to say that the 60 million people killed in WW2 changed very little? You mean to say that the older generation who lived through that war was not significantly impacted by it?

What on earth, I don't even...

Also, explain how this oil rationing is being carried out and how it affects the end consumer. Because you know what, I can't find any information to back up or verify your claim, so please provide a citation.

[WallaWalla]

There are religious zealots still pushing their idea of what's right on people just as there were more than 2000 years ago, there is still an "in" crowd in every country that varies based on the country, fundamentally we as a species has not changed much.

Have we changed all that much fundamentally as a species? No, but that's entirely aside the point and a whole different argument altogether. The cultures that we reside in have changed, and continue to change, and this change affects the outlook of the people within the cultures.

So yes, even my generation has gone through what kids are going through today, the guises change, but the impact and even solutions do not. The problem is that no one talks across generation lines about them ... the younger ones like to think they have it worse, and the older ones like to feel superior because of age, but really we aren't that different.

You are 35, that's pretty young, and the differences are incremental. Obviously you are going to have more in common with people growing up today than those who were born 60 years ago.

Case in point, a lot of "new" medical technology came from advances made 4000 years ago, they still hold true today we just conveniently forgot them.

Yeah, radiation therapy, robotics, pharmaceuticals, x-ray imaging, we just 'forgot' about that stuff and figured it back out.

[KittenAB]

Have we changed all that much fundamentally as a species? No, but that's entirely aside the point and a whole different argument altogether. The cultures that we reside in have changed, and continue to change, and this change affects the outlook of the people within the cultures.

You are 35, that's pretty young, and the differences are incremental. Obviously you are going to have more in common with people growing up today than those who were born 60 years ago.

Yeah, radiation therapy, robotics, pharmaceuticals, x-ray imaging, we just 'forgot' about that stuff and figured it back out.

1. I didn't say "all" medical stuff, so your point is invalid there.

2. I have friends and acquaintances ranging from 12 to 80 ... we all have things in common. None of us do that "when I was in school we had to walk uphill both ways" because we know ... it's not true. Cultures "shift" they don't change, these days all the fashions that are popular in high end stores are from the 80's ... the music is from the early 90's now ... and people are just as prejudiced as they have ever been, just in different ways, but people still go through it. So why can't a younger person take lessons from someone who has been through it? Why is it so hard to think that an older person may know something that can help? Why is it that older people can't remember being through it when someone needs said help?

When I was in school people thought being intelligent was a bad thing, and would tease the people who were smarter than them, even bully them. Recently I talked to a young kid, 12, who is going through the exact same thing. He calls me his friend now, because I helped him. He is borderline genius actually, but the students at his school treat him like a pariah, should I not help just because he's in a different generation? Should he ignore my advice just because I'm "old"?

[WallaWalla]

1. I didn't say "all" medical stuff, so your point is invalid there.

It was my foul for even bothering to chase such a tangent. It's wholly irrelevant to the discussion at hand, even if I'm deeply skeptical of your claim.

So why can't a younger person take lessons from someone who has been through it? Why is it so hard to think that an older person may know something that can help? Why is it that older people can't remember being through it when someone needs said help?

This is an absolute strawman, as I explicitly stated otherwise before you even decided to take up this argument against me. Of course younger people can learn from older people. That doesn't mean that they are going to relate to them as intimately as they do people of their own age. I am not speaking in any absolute terms here(apart from the absolute that, stuff changes), some people will be able to form intimate connections with some people who are much older or younger than them. However, as a general trend, people relate better to people of their own age.

You've said yourself that people like to blow up the differences. So, quite frankly, if for no reason other than a perceived sense of comfort this trend holds true.

When I was in school people thought being intelligent was a bad thing, and would tease the people who were smarter than them, even bully them. Recently I talked to a young kid, 12, who is going through the exact same thing. He calls me his friend now, because I helped him. He is borderline genius actually, but the students at his school treat him like a pariah, should I not help just because he's in a different generation? Should he ignore my advice just because I'm "old"?

Another strawman. Go back and read the original post I provided:

I haven't seen any kind of express bias against older people being promoted here. I've just seen some people who are claiming that they find people who are closer to their age more easy to relate to. Frankly, I am one to agree with them. This doesn't mean that I can't learn things from older people, it just means that they are on a different wavelength for the most part.

Quite frankly, you are just conveniently letting points slide by and are beginning to put words in my mouth. This is an exercise in futility at the rate that we are going, so I will digress from further argument with you in this thread.

However, I would say in closing that the vast majority of people I have encountered who would typically be considered 'baby boomers' are very hard for me to relate to. This is my personal experience in the manner and it makes sense to me for the numerous reasons provided above. I do not see how my own personal ability to better relate to those who fall within 10 years of my chronological age(who are also native to the culture I reside in currently) is able to be disputed, as I am the only one fully aware of my own ability to relate to others and my life experience which has led me to develop said attitude. Indeed, I am the only one to have a direct relationship to the attitude itself at all, and it would be impossible for anyone else to offer an appraisal of said attitude with any accuracy given that no-one other than myself is even entirely aware of what that attitude actually is in a complete way.

[KittenAB]

The whole point was that generations are not that different, I have traveled almost everywhere, and honestly, there is no change. Teens still rebel due to hormonal fluctuations and being at the cusp of adulthood, there are still prejudisms in the world, and people are generally still trying to "belong" more than be themselves, the only thing that does change is technology. There are still bullies, there are still geeks, there are still nerds, there are still gangbangers, there are still criminals. Until we get rid of the age wall we have built as a society, nothing will ever change.