Pavlov's Diaper

[Eir]

I am not sure who here is at all familiar with Dr. Ivan Pavlov's work in Psychology on classical conditioning, so i will do a quick summary, and post a link. Understand his experiment has to do with an idea for mine.

The short and simplified version-> dog salivates for food. Dr. gives dog food and rings bell. Dogs mind associates bell with food. Repeat bell with food many times. Dr. rings bell without food, dog salivates.

Slightly longer version-> Pavlov noticed that in the presence of a favorable food, a dog salivates. He also noticed that if the same person brought him food every time the dog would begin to salivate at the sight of the person, associating them with the food. So basically what Pavlov did is that when he present food to a dog (triggering salivation), he also rang a bell. He did this many times, to get the dogs subconscious mind to associate food with the sound of the bell. Eventually he could just ring the bell and the dog would salivate...if he did it too many times without give the dog food the dog would no longer salivate at the bell. So long as Pavlov gave food every once in a while with the bell, the dog would continue to salivate at the bell, regardless of the presence of food. This is called an Acquired Automatic Reaction.

Unconditioned Stimulus = food

Unconditioned Response = salivation

conditioned stimulus = bell

conditioned response = salivation

OK, here is my idea/theory

Using this model, replace food with need to pee (tightness in bladder), and/or poop. Replace salivation with pee and/or poop. Bell can be bell or anything.

I am wondering if every time, right before you use the restroom you ring a bell. Do this every time you pee for a while. Then try ringing that bell and i theorize that if you are conditioned enough, you will start to pee (assuming you have not just peed and have some urine in your bladder). Your neural connections should start to connect the sound of the bell with beginning to pee.

Ideally your 'bell' may not want to be a common sound in case this works, you do not really want to piss yourself every time somebody rings the door bell. lol.

(basically I imagine this is what the hypnotic tapes try to get you to do, along the same theory. mine is just more direct)

If you do try this pleas let us know if it works. I may just do so myself, though I want to find some noise/conditioned stimulus that is not common.

thoughts? questions?

Please forgive the necropost, I was not a member back in 2009, nor an adult baby for that matter. You are describing what Jake Rubin called linking in his ebook Urinate Now. It was written for patients with paruresis. Forging a link is actually a tricky thing to do, it has to be something that you will see or think of only in the context of using a public restroom. I am interested in threads like this because the mental block to wetting diapers uncontrollably is very similar to my shy bladder. Basically, shy bladder is a learned reaction. I learned that it is dangerous to urinate in the presence of others. by linking I was able to use stalls even in very busy restrooms. I am trying to use linking again to be able to use urinals. Instead of 5-4-3-2-1. My new link is a toddlerish monologue. Right before peeing, I hold, and recite in my mind: I am going to pee like a toddler, the dam is about to burst/ the toilet is on fire and I am the extinguisher, here comes the firehose!

A link is very fragile in the first few days, you must use the link every time you urinate in a situation that is not too difficult for you. I am wondering what kind of links the rest of you have come up with!

[BitterGrey]

A low hissing might work as well as a bell, and attract less attention in public stalls. I recall reading about its use in elimination communication.

QUOTE (tigon @ Jun 23 2009, 03:06 AM)

(basically I imagine this is what the hypnotic tapes try to get you to do, along the same theory. mine is just more direct)

Pretty sure the mechanisms of operation are different, but the two practices can be made compatible. For example, it the instant wetting trigger isn't working well, it can be reinforced by saying it on the toilet, before urination would happen anyway.

[diaperwerx]

These always remind me of public urinals. I suppose you could slice a tiny bit off of one of these or (depending on family/roomate conditions) keep one in a bathroom at home. It may not prove a "link" but should remind you of the environment...

Then again you probably DON'T want to be inhaling the vapors from these things all the time, regardless of how "safe" the FDA or whoever approves such things states them to be.

Unfortunately outside of this, I can't think of any other mental association with public urinals aside from urine and being in one ;-)

Best of Luck!

[Eir]

True. I could buy a "hockey puck" they are pungent. Recently I started a new link, thiniking 'warm soggy diaper' everytime I urinate at home. My link is becoming stronger and stronger. Basically, my goal is to induce incontinence by creating a mental link between a mental cue and urination. I was swimming at the river at night, got out of the water, and thought 'warm soggy diaper.' I started to wet my pants! Fortunately it was at night and I was right by the water, so I hopped in. I have ordered a pack of large ATN's so I can practice this. I may not like it, but I will have to practice in public. No one should notice a diaper under jeans.

[pampers08]

I wonder if you could try something like this on someone else without them realizing it? maybe not with the need to pee/poop but with something else?

[pampers08]

Well i guess i should have read a few more of the post before posting the question myself then i would have found my answer.....lol

[Eir]

My link is getting stronger, when at my home toilet, I feel my pelvic floor dropping whether or not I have an urgent need, everything goes. It is almost impossible to hold back. Linking is very similar to ABDL diaper training. While I may not be looking forward to wearing soggy diapers in public (under jeans, of course) I realize that it is neccessary for me to beat shy bladder. Like I said, my goal is inducing incontinence when I am in firing range of a urinal, by linking. Warm soggy diapers feel very good to me, and I am unlikely to think this subverbally throughout the day. If I did think it, I would have to let myself release no matter where I am or risk the link losing its power. I just ordered a 12 pack of ATN's size large. I have had problems with leaking before, but that is most likely because I was deluded enough to think I could wear a medium. I believe the Larges will keep me dry no problem.

[Guest]

Ideally your 'bell' may not want to be a common sound in case this works, you do not really want to piss yourself every time somebody rings the door bell.

ROFL, don't use an iphone ringtone either...

[Eir]

Yeah. My Warm Soggy diaper link became contaminated with AB Play and stopped working. Numerical sequences make better sense to me. My current link is 1 to 20, a graduated sequence.

1 In front of toilet, 2 3 4 5 Noticing the need to urinate 6 7 8 9 10 Feeling that need become stronger 11 12 13 14 15 The need to pee is becoming painful now 16 17 18 19 20 I have to pee so badly I am not able to hold back. I know what the numbers 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20 mean, and the incremental numbers that take me to each stage.

My biggest mistake with the last one was mixing it up with AB play. I want a soggy diaper, so I am going to link. WRONG! You use diapers to break yourself, and prove that you have induced incontinence. When I am succesful, and I am unable to hold back at a urinal on the count of 20, 15 will be the number for not being able to hold back. Then 10 and then 5. In the meanwhile, I plan on making a few trips to a nudist park by me, to normalize the exposure of my penis to my subconscious mind. I need to accept the fact that it is okay if someone catches a peak glance. I believe that the combination of linking and nudism will cure my case of shy bladder completely. What I won't do is link in areas where I am unable to release, or in situations where the link is not powerful enough yet. Classic example is when I am diapered up and in my "crib." Baby may want a soggy diaper, but jeapordizing my link to make myself pee lying down or when I am in public (which does not always work) can put my link in jeapordy. If pavlov keeps ringing the bell, and never feeds the dogs when he rings the bell, they lose their conditioning. If I lose my conditioning, I CANT FUCKING PEE!!! I had no problems using a locked church stall (standing) when I knew people were in the restroom, same thing at the supermarket restroom. It is starting to force me to go. It could take a few weeks to fortify the link. I am a big fan of the incontinence desires forum because I want to make myself hopelessly unable to keep my bladder from voiding, when I am within firing range of a urinal.

[Bonsai]

When you introduced motivation, you just jumped form Pavlov to Skinner theories. Other than that, good.

Option 2 is to grant stimuli for a change in diet. Imagine you are forced to drink huge quantities fo mildly diuretic stuff continuously.

Examples: to open a door, you need to drink 1 glass. To keep internet connection and/or PC running 1 glass every 20 minutes (an acustic alarm beeps when the last 5 min start to run). To switch on other tools and keep them running, the same.

Then, make bathroom really unconfortable to use. For example, apply a 15 min delay locker to the door. Diaper change insteas has to be really pleasurable, so maybe someone else is in charge of checking and changing you when needed, making sure to give you positive reinforcement each time you miss the potty.

It would be really fun....