[Shedding the continence mentality]

Hi friends, I’ve been reflecting a lot on how much of this journey is psychological.  The further we go along the more it’s apparent this is “mind over matter”.   

The most subtle and perhaps profound examples is the continence mindset.  By that, I mean our basic assumptions:

1.  Mastery  bowel and bladder control is an essential milestone of early childhood.  

2. You should never, ever, leak urine.

3.  Diapers are, generally speaking the last resort, other than for babies. 
 

These aren’t bad things. There’s an evolutionary advantage to being continent.  But knowing that they are psychological construct and that malleable does help in my experience. It’s not easy, but it is doable.  

[Incontinence desires. I'd like to start unpotty training]

Going full 24/7 to the point of tossing out your underwear and investing in cases of diapers and planning around vacations takes an immense amount of commitment.  I suppose it’s theoretically possible to do it in a way that  nobody in your household ever notices. But geez. I couldn’t imagine the practicality of not treating my diapers like underwear, when that’s what they are.  
 

In my experience the economics of cloth diapers don’t work out unless you go big on them and make them your full time thing, or hardly wear them.   When you factor in the investment cost, the storage cost, laundry cost, and also the cost of the diapers, and plastic pants, you need to wear a lot of times for everything to pay for itself.   
 

Also remember that odor protection isn’t as robust with cloth diapers. And by “isn’t as robust” I mean virtually non existent.  

That said, that’s just my experience.  If there’s a cloth-diaper enthusiast out there who begs to differ, please do! Trust me, I wish I could get cloth diapers to work out. 

Instead, OP, have a  different suggestion:  Enjoy wearing diapers as often as you can to the point where it doesn’t cause issues for you.   It’s okay if you can’t commit to this lifestyle for decades.  If you can, that’s amazing! If there’s a point where you diapers need to take a backseat, that’s life.  Either way, good luck! Let us know how it goes. You got this. ❤️

[Sizing down… what a weird and amazing feeling!]

Hi all,  I wasn’t sure the right forum for this as it applies to “all of the above” so I apologize if this isn’t the right place. 
 

Due to a combination of intentional and unintentional factors I’ve been losing some weight.  I tend to be on the cusp between medium and large, and traditionally I size up. But with the recent slimming down I feel like larges are just a tad too large now.  
 

This is weird.  The diaper looks and feels so much more snug.  I’m not used to feeling the tapes (with larges the tapes are over the front panel).   So it’s simultaneously thinner and thicker feeling.  

The real test will be seeing how it holds up.  

[Why does it seem like there are more incontinence gatekeepers on the internet than in real life?]

20 hours ago, Babypants said:

I'm 78, and have been incontinent since birth due to a spinal cord birth defect.  I have been counselling people in my community about incontinence for more than fifteen years, both informally and through outreach programs.  ADHB has gone to the heart of it.  On this site, threads over and over again discuss the definition of incontinence, and the variations (overflow, stress, urge, etc.), but there are more fundamental issues.  When dealing with the incontinent community, people on sites like this who are not incontinent need to be aware of the DABDA imperative.  We associate this with cancer (Denial / Anger / Bargaining / Depression / Acceptance), but it applies in a very direct way to those rendered incontinent by injury or illness.  I'm lucky, in the sense that being a lifelong incontinent I do not have to "unlearn" the continence lifestyle.  But this is exactly what happens to people who progress from diapers to pull-ups to underpants/panties.  Suddenly, everything that has applied to your daily life since early childhood is swept away, and you have to "unlearn" to clear the decks for "learning" to live with a disability that may be with you 24/7/365 until death.  The emotional toll on one's self-esteem can be as devastating as the physical.

So, when you go on a site devoted to incontinence, you should expect that individuals at different points on the DABDA scale on going to react to your comments differently.  Someone who has been in diapers for ten years has probably run the whole scale, but someone who has been at it for six months has not.  So, be patient, and above all don't be too quick to draw conclusions from the feedback your comments receive.  

</Thread> 

I have to say in the excessive time I spent ruminating on this perceived rejection*  I never considered this perspective.  You’re right,  I never went through the grief cycle, like so many others there did when they received the diagnosis of incontinence.  My experience was more of a relief cycle. 

*This get’s to @oznl’s Uno Reverse question asking me why I get so offended when accused of faking it.   The answer is quite simple: I wish I knew  myself!   It’s on my growing list of things to work through in therapy! 😂😬

[Why does it seem like there are more incontinence gatekeepers on the internet than in real life?]

5 hours ago, SoggyFroggy said:

Same here! It's quite surprising how many people really feel like incontinence is something they can't live with. Especially as someone who has given so much thought (along with hours and hours of actual research involved to really understand it) about life with certain specific disabilities.

Thats the other thing that bugs me about how much hate I received for not suffering with incontinence. many of us here are freaking EXPERTS in the urinary tract system, and have an encyclopedic knowledge of incontinence, management, and treatment, and we are creative problem solvers who deal with a different type of stigma, and because we live it 24/7.   Like @Little Sherri said, their loss.  
 

 

[Why does it seem like there are more incontinence gatekeepers on the internet than in real life?]

On 4/4/2024 at 12:28 AM, spacedlittle said:

I left that site over the way they treated you. Here seems so much better

To be fair there are a lot of decent open minded folks on that website, just as there are some closed-minded folks here.     

But yeah, if some of the people on that forum only knew what you and I know…

On 4/3/2024 at 11:22 AM, Little Sherri said:

In my opinion, it's their loss, if they want to keep their world small and strictly policed. Ours is bigger and more open, and our diapers work better, and we are experts at enjoying life, whereas many of them just want to talk about how awful it is.

 

 I never thought of it that way before.  😍  I think I took the positive affirming atmosphere here for granted when I branched out. 

[Why does it seem like there are more incontinence gatekeepers on the internet than in real life?]

8 minutes ago, zzyzx said:

@Enthusi: Maybe not where you planned this thread to go, but....

I've known since (mid) elementary school that how I sense things is different from "normal" or "average", starting with pain..... 

While I won't say I was wanting incontinence, a piece of my was scared / expecting something to happen at some point in time...  And when the combination of things hit that started the bed-wetting, so it came true.....  And that was before I knew about ABDL / diaper fetish, etc....  Found out about that once I started looking for how to handle the problem....

While sensory issues weren't discussed / brought up by doctors as I was growing up, I see what I have is now on the list of items associated with neurodiversity and autism spectrum.  So, you may have similar "fun" with current definitions knowing what you know now.

Oh I forgot to mention above, yeah I have rip roaring adhd and more than my share of anxiety.   And wouldn’t you know it, the brain and body are connected.   Funny thing is that I did mention adhd in my post on that forum and someone also dismissed that as a bogus excuse.   For others like me and you, we know it’s not. 

[Why does it seem like there are more incontinence gatekeepers on the internet than in real life?]

I’m not saying it’s good or bad.  I’m just curious.  Is it a Sample bias?  Bad experience with ABDLs?  A desire to maintain a gated community?   An assumption that incontinence must cause suffering for it to count?  Or am I off the mark on this one?  

I recently posted on an incontinence forum on a different website about how in I assumed my bladder control was normal to begin with.  I got the idea after reading a different thread where someone said they were never good at sensing their bladder filling.   I never knew that was a thing. But my whole life I’ve had a weird relationship with my bladder.  I clearly remember being terrified of accidents and was always running to the bathroom and I would drain a full bladder.   It’s like I was in constant reactive mode. That’s would explain why it felt burdensome to maintain control.    Because it was assumed my bladder control was normal and I do have abdl tendencies, I never considered that other people get a more warning than I do that the have to go.   

And oh my goodness.  Some people were supportive. But there were a vocal few who made it clear that it it’s impossible to become incontinent from untraining (it absolutely is. See: Functional incontinence and spiraling). They accused me of rewriting my narrative to say I was incontinent the whole time (I never said that. I said maintaining continence was perhaps more difficult for me than I gave myself credit for). They implied I was undeserving of sympathy (I never asked for sympathy).    One person told me this belongs in fiction (it doesn’t), several people told me this doesn’t belong here.   
 

The crazy thing is that if you go to any urologist or primary care doctor and say that you suspect there might be some sensory issues that would explain why bladder control is difficult for you, they’d take it at face value.   I know this because I’ve literally said to my urologist who I see for urinary incontinence.    He nodded and agreed and went on to discuss various treatment options and other topics.  
 

I’ve disclosed my bladder control issues to several trusted friends and family, and trust me never once has anyone even thought of calling me out.  I didn’t mention the ABDL stuff, but even if I did, I strongly suspect they still wouldn’t question.  To be fair incontinence doesn’t come up in discussion that much.   Turns out most people don’t really care that much how good or bad you are at controlling your pee, and how it came to be that way.  

Let me be clear: I get that people suffer from incontinence and they need a community space free of fetishists using them for masturbation material.   I fully support gatekeeping  in that situation because it is inappropriate.   

Help me understand it.  I’m sure the people on that incontinence support forum had their reasons to demonize me for what I thought was a message in support of other incontinent folks like me.    

Either way I’m thankful for this lovely group. ❤️

Also… I’m  curious others thoughts on if there is a *possible* sensory predisposition that would explain why some of us ABDLs prefer to be incontinent. But that’s a different convo different day. 
 

 

[The better mouse trap of the "reverse kegal"]

This is great!  I do this too but with an imaginary catheter being inserted.  

[Involuntary contraction before peeing]

19 hours ago, Wheels said:

There is a contracting sphincter reflex involved in response to the stimulation of the initial full bladder contraction, allowing us to then make the decision if it's appropriate to pee in that moment or not. This interesting short video highlights this.

That would make perfect sense.  I wonder how much this stupid little reflex  contributes to our collective dysphoria?

[Some brief thoughts on the diaper arms race and why I have bought my last MegaMax]

I’m digging the BeDry series from Incontrol.  Competitive pricing, free shipping, subscribe and save, comfy.  

[Seeking incontinence training advice for somebody who has a very difficult time wetting]

4 minutes ago, abashedlypadded said:

I guess I don't really do anything, but I relish in how good it feels

Whenever I have victories  I would give my self a nice little massage (…) and an affirming reminder that i was a good boy.   
 

[Seeking incontinence training advice for somebody who has a very difficult time wetting]

What do you do to reward yourself when you have a victory?

[Involuntary contraction before peeing]

Same thing happens to me, and it’s been years.  I wonder if it’s just a reflex because the contractions do literally nothing to stop me from leaking.  

[What is your least favorite part of this lifestyle, even if you’re generally satisfied with your decision?]

Wow! @Ineedboth1994!  Honestly you’re the first person I met who sought fecal incontinence prior to urinary incontinence.    But I totally vibe with it just feeling right  

 

 

[What is your least favorite part of this lifestyle, even if you’re generally satisfied with your decision?]

52 minutes ago, Ineedboth1994 said:

When I’m trying to talk about sports or something else with the guys at work and I have an accident right in front of them 😞

 

Ive had times where they could hear it as well as smell it and that’s pretty much the end of any social interaction for most people. 
 

I work for a mega-cap healthcare company so I’m protected by company policy and culture but you can tell my boss only talks to me because he has to ☹️

 

I’d imagine to most people I’m just the guy at the warehouse who wears diapers and sh*ts himself 😞

Can I ask you a question out of genuine curiosity:  I take it you have dual incontinence?  Was any of that by choice?  You don’t have to answer if you don’t feel comfortable.  

[What is your least favorite part of this lifestyle, even if you’re generally satisfied with your decision?]

On 1/30/2024 at 8:58 PM, superabsorbantpolymer said:

It's funny that many mention the logistics of diapers when traveling as a downside, I guess it is if you want to be guaranteed what products you use. I've traveled to dozens of countries diapered, and I love the experience of tracking down (hopefully good) diapers in a new country. I love going into pharmacies and shops and asking if they have adult diapers in another language. Exploring new products, buying irl, language barriers, confusion as to who they're for all make the experience quite fun.

The logistics don't really bother me, they're part of the ritual and fun of being diapered. The only thing that bothers me is the constant low level anxiety that someone will notice my bulge and or wet patches. But with time I've stopped caring what strangers think, I still need to get over wearing around friends/family, although I've worn around them a lot.

Basically if I had magically flat, waterproof jeans I'd never stop wearing.

I can’t begin to tell you how important having that challenge mindset is.  And in fact when I crafted my post I debated introducing a second talking about how I love that I am annoyed by the constant small inconveniences of being incontinent.  I get the feeling you, and many others get it. 

[What is your least favorite part of this lifestyle, even if you’re generally satisfied with your decision?]

1 hour ago, justforfun said:

It's not the wearing itself, it's the carrying, acquiring, and otherwise managing the logistics of making sure that I have supplies, particularly when I'm on a trip with many stops over a longer period.

Yep!  It’s the mild inconveniences that add up. The longer the duration of the trip the more extensive planning you need to do ahead of time.  
 

And you are also right that being diaper dependent 24/7 adds even more hassles.    I encourage most people who are interested in 24/7 to try it out, but for me it wasn’t feasible until I was in my 30’s for a number of reasons.   That said, you find ways to manage, and it really does get easier with time.  

10 minutes ago, Hannah YMS said:

Leaking in bed. I have mental hang-ups about leaking in bed which I think are contributing to my resistance to nightly wetting.

Until I saw your reply here, I  thought I was the only one who has an intense fear of leaking.   It’s so silly because it’s I am a bedwetter and it’s never a big of a deal when I actually leak at night.  But the anxiety about waking up to soaked sheets kicks my ass.  Feel free to DM me if you’re interested having a support buddy who gets it.  

[What is your least favorite part of this lifestyle, even if you’re generally satisfied with your decision?]

Omg @Little Sherri, I feel like you’re in my brain.  I resonate with everything you mentioned. ❤️❤️❤️

Re: Family members, the impact of my lifestyle on my partner weighs on me a lot.   For starters there are the intimacy issues.  Physical romance needs to be planned around the possibility that my bladder can suddenly empty itself with little to no warning.  At best it ruins the spontenaity. At worst it can be horrifically gross and embarrassing.  Also when we are together and I have a leak or am about to, it’s now their problem as well.    And, similar to you, @Little Sherri, my partner puts up with the lifestyle only because they support me, but it’s not what they want for me.  

The only advice I can offer is that it takes a lot of bravery to have a frank open discussion with your partner about how your lifestyle impacts them. But doing so is important for both of your long term happiness.   

[What is your least favorite part of this lifestyle, even if you’re generally satisfied with your decision?]

Does anyone else get the sense that it’s hard to convey nuanced views on here?  For example, venting about the hassles of being incontinent, without it being misinterpreted as a statement of regret, or a warning?   To be fair, I don’t think there’s anything particularly alarming with this fine community, but rather it’s due to limitations of social media   

My goal for this thread is to create a safe space where it’s okay to share things that bother, worry, or vex you, even if you are otherwise happy with your lifestyle decision.    Also feel free to reply if you’re bothered by the same thing, or pro tips.   Also, let’s all acknowledge that this isn’t medical advice, and to see a medical specialist if there are concerns about your health. 

I will go first: 
Even though I made the right decision to untrain myself,  there are times when life would be so much easier, such as traveling, if I didn’t have to worry about having spare diapers on hand at all times.  

[Nay Sayers]

We in the ABDL community tend to put incontinence on a pedestal like it’s some sort of title that is bestowed on a select few people.  Yeah I agree that it’s not a good look to fetishize a medical condition that is highly stigmatizing to people who don’t enjoy it.  But, for many of us, it’s not just a fetish.  I genuinely believe my potty training was a mistake.   
 

I encourage people interested in 24/7 lifestyle or even untraining to try it.  The vast majority of people will get exhausted by the lifestyle after a few weeks when the novelty wears off and it starts feeling restrictive. That totally fine.  They tried something new and learned something about themselves and their limits. Then there are the others who gain confidence and have even less desire to go back.  Thats fine too.   The point is, either way it doesn’t matter what I, or anyone say.  
 

So yeah, incontinence is a symptom and not a diagnosis.  It sucks for most people, though some of us feel more complete by being diaper dependent. It’s all good. 

[Forgetting what it’s like to be continent.]

22 hours ago, diapered_jeff48801 said:

I tried this and couldn't make it through the day. Not because I wet, but because I was constantly anxious and physically uncomfortable with having to hold.

Even though intellectually I know that a psychological need for diapers is just as legitimate as a physical need, it’s always bugged me that I untrained myself because I wanted to need diapers.  

It wasn’t until very recently that it finally clicked that continence shouldn’t feel burdensome.  That fact that staying dry has always felt like work, and ive always felt more comfortable in diapers, means that I wasn’t ready to potty train when I was a young child, and I’m still not ready now.  

My guess is it’s the exact same with a lot of us here. 

[Forgetting what it’s like to be continent.]

Anyone else who’s been at this for while,  find that after so many years, you kind of lose touch with the continence mentality? 

What would it be like in public wearing nothing but flimsy underwear under your clothes, and be so confident that you won’t pee yourself?   Or what would it be like to not see staying dry as a difficult gruesome ordeal?     Apparently many guys prefer to sleep naked, with nothing  but bed sheets under them, seemingly oblivious to the concern of soaking their mattress.  
 

My guess is that for those of us who used to have better control, it’s an eye opener when you’re confronted with how far you’ve come.

Any stories of times when you found yourself surprised at how far you’ve strayed from “normal” continence?  

[What is your bladder capacity]

I’ve never formally tested my total capacity, but one time I weighed a diaper pre- and post-wetting  and converting to volume, it was around 150cc.  

Interestingly, most adults first sense they have to pee around 150 cc and indeed that matches with my personal experience. As soon as I feel the urge to go, it’s too late. 

[Seeking psychologically minded volunteers to help me re-write my unpotty training technique: Targeted Untraining]

On 10/31/2023 at 1:22 AM, inosi said:

it would literally be dangerous for you to talk to most psychologists. half of the users on this forum would be tortured if psychologists saw their accounts. a decent portion of us HAVE been before. whatever you think cognitive behavioral therapy is, it's NOT this.

i don't think you'll find many people here comfortable with this line of thinking of yours. i would dump the psych angle if you want anyone to engage with this. i suggest a re-write. 

it's a shame too, you've had a lot of really cool posts here before that i've enjoyed. but this one is gonna be a big yikes from me.

I think you might have misunderstood what I was getting at, though the fact that it wasn’t clear makes me wonder about going a different direction. If you were confused, how many other people would be? 
 

To be clear my approach is loosely based on the principle that thoughts, feels, and actions are all interrelated, and to untrain you have to hit all 3 areas simultaneously. How you think, feel, and behave to align with the goal of untraining. It was never, ever, ever meant to imply therapy. And at no point was I ever planning to contact psychologists.  That would be horribly inappropriate.   I just meant that it would be nice to have someone help me write it who gets the theoretical basis for my guide because it’s a hell of a lot of work to write alone.