dlmolicares

That's a pretty good place to be, and where I am as well. Sort of agnostic but appreciative when it happens. I just went on an extended trip and ended up quite dry. Then again, I came back home and ended up very, very soaked. Just sort of going with the flow! I do believe that if we're trying too hard, in many respects that may bring us further away (my counselor's point was spot on!) For me the last potential barrier was sometimes be not wanting to wet the sheets too often. As you mentioned earlier, keeping a good stock and diapering up (strong diaper, cloth on top, plastic pants on top of that, and then a protective mat underneath) really helps. Could totally see where being down to 3 diapers would play in one's head though!

Curious to what the nights and outcomes are like for those who've been at trying to become a bedwetter for a number of years as like. As one thing training shows us, each of us is different. For people who have been trying for years (maybe 5+) what sorts of results are yous seeing now? My previous scorecard may be a helpful framework. For those with some level of bladder control (IE not fully IC) it seems most nights are either: A) Waking up and using the restroom B ) Waking, using the diaper and falling asleep C) Vaguely recalling "going" at night, but hazy and unsure if I actually remember doing it or if I'm imagining I remember doing it or D) Sleeping like a rock, remembering nothing but waking up soaked My Background: I have been on the journey to become a bedwetter for 8+ years. All of my evenings are B, C or D. My Outcomes: D happens enough that even in cases where I absolutely want to stay dry I have to have protection because I have no way of knowing when a "D" may happen. In other words, diapers every night- even on family vacations, sleeping over at a friends, work trips, etc. Wearing every night. How I feel about it: I've achieved night time "Diaper Dependence" broadly meaning, I have lost control of the situation (which was a primary goal). I can certainly stack the odds in favor of a dry night if I need to (drinking none or less, urinating right before bed, etc) but ultimately I can't be sure to "will" myself to a dry night. Last year, my partner got a new bed and when I slept in it with them I was absolutely doing everything I could to keep it dry (all of the above) I was fairly confident because the (D) nights are somewhat rare especially if I limit fluids, drinking, and "go" right before bed. The bedwetting fairy is a fickle mistress. Despite my efforts, I soaked through my diaper, underpad and the sheets to the new bed :< Sure, 9/10 times that bed would have stayed dry with all of the prep- but it's not 10/10 and as such I'm diaper dependent. Where am I now? Interestingly, I have shifted to more B/C simply because (for some reason) over the last year I started emptying my bladder right before bed most nights and somewhat limiting fluids. The thrill and gratification of having a (D) is still the same as early in my journey. I suppose the difference is I don't feel I have to work hard at every facet to force it to happen every night. I just enjoy it when it does. Who knows, maybe I'll stop emptying before bed a few nights just to see where it goes.

Great description. I started focusing on bedwetting maybe 8 years ago. My nights are a combo of A) Being awake, realizing I am somewhat full, releasing and falling asleep B ) Waking wet in the AM, vaguely recalling letting go in the night (but not sure if I actually recall it or was constructing the memory of it) and C) Sleeping like a rock and waking up soaked (Zero memory at all, like you this usually happens if I've had a few drinks) Mostly A/B with the occasional surprise "C" that is unpredictable enough that I need to wear every night. As in, vacation with the family starts today and I'm counting the diapers for my luggage + coming up w/ plan on how to dispose discreetly when wet. I'd probably benefit from some self-reflection, now realizing over the last year I've started to intentionally fully empty my bladder just right before bed every night (which has reduced the "C") Maybe it's that I achieved my goal, and although I fully enjoy the "C" nights I am not feeling the need as much to work hard towards it.

The bedwetting fairy can be a fickle mistress... or said differently, our minds are a big part of this and there is a lot going on in there. Personal opinion- I think bedwetting is by far mostly about psychological aspects (unless someone is truly 100% physically IC, of course) While the physiological can tilt it to wet or dry nights (drinking a lot, not drinking, etc) but that psychological piece always feels like a bigger player.

Good conversation, there are some nuances to it. For example: - Can one force oneself to wet while totally asleep? Or, does wetting happen while totally asleep even if one isn't forcing/trying to make it happen? - Multi v. single wettings: IC person would go continuously. Suspecting many here may "go" while in their deep sleep but may still awaken several hours later feeling the need to "go" again but not doing so while asleep (they're already awake)

Glad that you've enjoyed it, really nice to see / hear your tracking and progress updates. We probably all define being a bedwetter differently, but for what it's worth you'd meet my definition (I think of it as needing to wear diapers even in situations you'd normally rather not because you can't be sure you'll keep the bed dry without them) I'll check out the poll section, I have this score card plus a related one (that hits other aspects, more r/e scoring overall progress towards bed wetting (scores the activities and psych make-up in terms of how close they align with becoming a bedwetter) No guarantees though, a bit IT challenged :>

OK, this is going to sound ironic from the guy who just posted this whole scoring system thing, but in some ways, sometimes it's better NOT to track. For context, I was very open with my therapist when I began this journey and she was helpful with supporting the efforts to untrain. One of the more impactful bits of advice she had was to learn to "be OK no matter what" Meaning: on mornings I awaken having wet in my sleep take a moment to enjoy the moment and the progress... but on nights where I ended up dry, simply go about my day knowing the next night will be another night. When she told me this, I realized that all of my precise tracking was actually setting up an internal psych dynamic where dry was a failure to achieve the goal. This then led to some conscious (and subconcisious?) stressors around sleep and the overall goal of becoming a wetter. It was freeing to not have to feel the night was a failure if I was dry, and paradoxically made it easier to have "wet" nights become a thing. Just my 2 cents, each out our journeys are different. Sharing what I can knowing it may help others :>

Starting this as a new topic as user Boyhood and I were developing it within another thread and I thought it might benefit from it's own. For those who want to measure progress, or simply for those who want to describe their current state, a scale like this might be helpful. Of course, there is also merit to NOT tracking at all as many of you know (intently tracking can ironically make untraining harder) Here's the scale, and putting it here to get everyone elses ideas. Maybe then we could drop it in the survey section. Noting this is only along a single vector of the bedwetting + training experience- solely the outcome. In other words, it's not scoring other interesting pieces such as night time routine, social acceptance of your wetting, psychological barriers, if (or what type) of diapers you use etc. Those other pieces could likewise be scored but this is only the outcome. Survey question 1: On a scale of 1-10 how would you describe last night's bedwetting? Example: Last night was an 8 score. I definitely wet, and sort of vaguely recall letting go of my bladder but I'm not sure if I really remember doing that or maybe just think I remembered doing it. Survey question 2: Over the last 10 nights, what mix of scores (wetting profile) have you had? Example: Over like 10 nights, I'll usually have 1-2 score 10. Maybe 3 nights score 8, 3 nights score 6 and sometimes I have a couple of nights score 5. Scoring 3 is rare- maybe once every month or two at most Scale for answering the above: 10: I awoke soaked and have absolutely no memory of having gone (whether it's awakening in the middle of the night or in the morning) 8: In awoke soaked but, looking back on the night, I think I may have remembered being up and wetting. Not sure if I actually was awake. If I was awake, not sure if it was before or after starting to wet. It's like tracking back through the fog to try and remember, but I sort of remember something. 6: I awoke soaked, but looking back on the night I remember being awake and starting to go. I am unsure if I fell back asleep before or after I was done wetting. I am unsure if I could have stopped the wetting (even though I remember being vaguely awake when I started it) 5: I was definitely awake in the middle of the night, felt my bladder full and decided to start wetting. I recall enjoying the feeling, then falling asleep when I was done. 3: I awoke in the AM to get up for the day, saw that I stayed dry and my bladder feels full. 1: I awoke in the middle of the night to get up and use the restroom Thanks to user Boyhood for the feedback on the initial scale and hopefully others have good suggestions too

Really appreciate it... looser is a great idea which I haven't really tried. Tends happen when I am sitting (tightens everything up vs free standing) but loose could help with that. Interesting thought on the cloth, I've never really tried them other than for additional evening protection. Would be nice to try them in the daytime and I'd bet it takes care of that issue. Totally separate but in case you're wondering, I load up at night- Abena / cloth / plastic pants combo (with then a pad and mattress protector) so even then the cloth isn't in immediate contact.

That's exactly it... it's like the tip is obstructed by the diaper and it hurts. Unfortunately, the hurt is memorable enough that instead of freely letting go I consciously pause / hesitate "Will this hurt or not?" versus just flipping a switch and being open no matter what. Being able to not worry about it would certainly help with the untraining.

That's interesting and thanks for the response, I am in the same boat (going with the flow for bedtime routine) For the 22 nights, were all of those fully asleep? I find mine varies, the thing could almost be scored if we wanted to track (but benefit in not tracking too) 5 - fully wet with absolutely no recollection 3- fully wet, vaguely recall it happening. Unsure if I woke after I started or during, so unsure if it could have even been stopped if I wanted it to 1- Fully awake with full bladder and consciously let go into the diaper 0- Totally dry diaper in the morning If I had to guess, I'm probably 60% 3s / 15-20% 5s / 20% 1s and 5% 0s

I think you may be misunderstanding. Nowhere in my post was I discussing fear of leaking, because I don't fear that. Totally good with it. It's that urination causes physical pain when the member is in the wrong position because the bladder is trying to empty but can only back up into the urethra. Happens especially when sitting, but clears up if I shuffle things a bit. Totally get what you're saying about letting go. The only thing holding me back from that is I stop when I start feeling that pain, then start going again once I've reshuffed.

I've been 24/7 for a few years, and can certainly get to the point where I relax the sphincter for an hour or so and feel the wetting sort of come in waves depending on what I do. The only catch is my member. Equipment. Whatever other clever phrase we use. Basically, if the thing is pointed the wrong way then it doesn't void but rather builds up in the urethra for a rather uncomfortable sensation. So I find, when I want to go "Empty Sphincter" time, the only thing holding me back is not knowing if it's positioned in a way that may cause discomfort. That's the pause. That's the hesitation. I'd like to get over that. Is there a way to place "things" so there's no concern about that? If so, I know I could go pretty freely which would be nice.

The variability is interesting. Lots of key factors that are different person by person and also change throughout one's life Physiological make-up such as size of bladder Current physiological state such as overhydrated v. underhydrated, Psychological barriers can vary (comfortable wetting v. not, etc) Social situations (single, married with family etc) that impact the degree to which one can incorporate XYZ into their lives There's probably more. All varies by person and also over time. There are "themes" of things that can help achieve goals (and they do) but what works best and how quickly varies for sure.

Good description and maybe just a step ahead of where I am.. I've been wearing 24/7 for maybe 3 years and likely 5-7 years at night. Night wetting is totally sporadic although there have been times I'd totally NOT want to wet in my sleep I have (IE trial period of new mattress and it happened!) Which puts me in a position where I would be extremely uncomfortable and concerned with out one. When I really try and stay dry at night (limit fluids, go right before bed etc) there's still a 10% shot it happens. Enough that I need the protection (which was my goal years ago 😆 ) Day wetting is different, I can hold the open sphincter state for quite a while and "go" from pretty much any position or situation. I've developed uncontrollable leakage post-urination. Also find my diaper wet when I change it at end of day, not knowing / recalling how it got that wet. Ability to control when urgent has gone down a bit. Yesterday, I went to the restroom on one of my 30-min things and was surprised that the urine started before I knew it did (weird feeling, oh wow pee is coming out)

Appreciate the response... I know the exact feeling you're talking about, it's almost like a meditation or body focus exercise. Psychologically I think that going every 30 might become so natural that we think about it less and less. The bladder size thing would take a lot longer, just not sure how long. Similar question to how long wearing a cath until there are issues when it's removed.

Just curious what the thoughts / experiences are. Idea being a phone reminder (vs the shock idea mentioned elsewhere) If truly adhered to during waking hours, how many days / weeks until you think continence would be impacted? Thinking doing this would impact a couple of things over time. Psychological- developing a habit of routinely going frequently. Second, physiological (IE bladder shrinking) which would take more time.

Tremendous work, and actually great to see evidence that behavioral approaches can help achieve the goals many of us are seeking. I appreciate the effort to both share and also to shield would-be amateurs from hurting themselves with this training. Wondering more about kittfur's comment- if it would still be effective w/o the riskier part (shocks) and rather with vibrational and/or audio cues. No doubt that'd take longer but it may also be easier to train for longer with that approach. It'd basically prompt to wet in an effort to avert the 1.5 hour "doing something else and forgot to go" thing that happens with so many of us. No doubt, longer to train (and don't even know efficacy) but might be easier and safer for the mainstream pop though.

Thanks for chronicling your journey. While our paths may all differ a bit, there are definitely themes and particularly hurdles that we all need to overcome. Totally agree with the aspect of not thinking about it. Earlier in my journey, a therapist suggested not tracking and not judging a wet/dry night as good or bad. Enjoy when a wet one happens, and appreciate the sleep if you have a dry one. That "Let it be" mentality made a difference for me. You've addressed the hard barrier, which is sleeping in wet sheets. I'm at a point where I am fine sleeping in wet sheets if I'd wet them while totally asleep, but less so if I'm awake and consciously wetting myself to the extent it's wetting the sheets. My approach has been to wear both an abena and cloth diaper over it with plastic pants, so the occurrences of wet sheets are minimal. My question for you- do you have a pre-night routine? In other words, are you chugging a lot of fluids and going to bed with a fuller bladder? Or are you limiting fluids and emptying right before bed? I've been on the journey for years, currently at the point where I just do the normal fluids I would (no more, no less) and do empty my bladder right before bed. I find I still have nights where I truly wet the bed (IE fully asleep, not seeing it until I awaken) and majority of the other nights I'll wet the bed while semi-conscious.

Great methodical approach and enjoy the updates. - Wondering if temperature might be a more accurate gauge of multiple wettings. Presuming it goes from room temp to something higher on the first wetting, then drifts down towards room temp over hours (but then up again with a new wetting?) Simply not sure if humidity would work for that or not (certainly could tell wet vs. dry, but would it have the sensitivity to tell wet once v. wet twice?) Maybe if the first wetting is much smaller than the 2nd. Otherwise not sure humidity would be sensitive enough - Broadly, not sure where all of this leads and someone w/ behavioral / psych background may be able to chime in more. I don't know if the set-up works as well to induce bedwetting as it does to prevent bedwetting (does it equally run in reverse?) - The short term impacts aren't equal when reversed. Certainly getting an alarm when wetting has started may reduce wetting (if nothing else by wakening mid-stream) the analogue would be if this set-up made you sleeper when you started wetting (when it doesn't) - The long term impacts may be equal though. Meaning, over time getting an alarm if you wet may, over time, create a subconscious aversion to wetting (the traditional use) The flipside (our case) would be subconsciously making us want to wet so we don't get awoken. Of course, that can simply be done by wetting while awake as soon as we feel an urge which isn't exactly sleep wetting - Final note: No matter the use case, the alarm function is a "punishment" or disincentive. Simply noting that some sort of reward could also help reinforce. I don't know what that would be but if there's something positive that could be triggered to happen when we wet then that would further reinforce. Sorry for all of the words. Seems there could be some potential here. Just trying to think through it with everyone!

I had never been a bedwetter in my life (other than the obvious time < age of 3 when everyone is) so this state that I am in now is 100% due to training over the years (thanks to these boards and other resources over the years)

Yes, but it was an awake wetting (awake enough to remember starting) although I don't remember thinking if I should hold it. Basically awoke conscious of feeling full and let it go without thinking about it. The other scenarios are: A) wetting totally in my sleep (not even remembering it, having to morning check of my diaper to see whether or not I wet etc) B) Not wetting at all (totally dry in the morning) Not really tracking but most nights are either like last night (half-awake) or (A) true sleep wetting. Maybe once every couple of weeks I'll wake in the AM totally dry- that's very rare despite that I empty my bladder right before bed every night.

Rue Rue had a good post on smells (IE pet urine removal products) but it didn't appear to address staining. Wouldn't you know it, I got a visit from the bedwetting fairy last night and awoke surprisingly soaked, and when removing the sheets stunned to see the mattress itself stained and soaked. I read somewhere about soaking up what you can, then putting baking soda on it, letting it dry, then vacuuming it off. What are the best tips for getting rid of the stain (beyond just the smell part Rue Rue was asking about?) Figured this is the right group to ask 😆 Thanks everyone PS- nights like last night are what remind me I've trained to become a bedwetter! Emptied bladder before bed, didn't have any alcohol before bed North Shore Mega-Max Used portable underpad Used plastic backed mattress protector My best guess is that my plastic mattress protector slipped off at one point (sheets are on top of it) and that I probably shuffled my underpad while asleep

No idea, but would say hypnosis can help before sleep. Type of thing where you're drifting off and not knowing if it was hypnosis or sleep. There is a half-awake state that's between everything. Have listened to hypnosis while drifting in or out and it helped but no idea if it'd help when totally "out"

Used that file many years ago but didn't know it was from her. Would say first, most effective hypnosis for going deep I've experienced (if you follow her instructions) and second my therapist (who I shared my journey with back then) said she uses a really good technique that she (therapist) was familiar with. This audio definitely brought me closer to involuntary night wetting. Rest of the journey was dealing with the rest of the psych stuff (do I really want to have to diaper when on vacation with my kids and wife? Do I really want to clean sheets if it leaks at night etc. Am I truly OK wearing every night no matter what?) Those barriers are a different battle and critical, but this audio helped with a lot of the other pieces outside of that. Thanks for sharing!