complete Breaking the Girl: A Novel

[Wannatripbaby]

7 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

Thank you for allowing yourself to be emotionally invested in these characters.  I know it hurts because their journey has been so intense.  It means a lot to me that you let them into your heart <3

And thank you as well. For creating a "safe space" for me to feel this intense emotions. I have trouble expressing myself in real life. Art used to be the only way I could really experience emotions. I've gotten a bit better lately, but still.

[chansu ragedashi]

that was just cruel... i saw the name 'Lauren' and set my phone down to take a second and accept that things were going to go sideways super-fast! i just hope Dani and Vanessa are okay! i really hope they can make it all work out now that everything is on the table (i NEVER would have predicted that it would be vanessa being broken in such a way.)

[foofybabykitten]

I promise i'm not crying it's just eye sweat!  I'm really conflicted right now on one side i feel like Dani is justified in feeling manipulated and hurt because of Vanessa's actions but on the other side i know Vanessa was doing it so she could avoid having her heartbroken and so she could make Dani happy she just went about it the wrong way. I'm hoping they will pull through after a honest talk and Dani can see Vanessa's heart was in the right place and just didn't know how to be 100% honest.  I'm curious what anyone else would do in this situation as Dani, i would probably be a little scared that the woman i thought i loved was monitoring everything i did; i might even end the relationship there if they weren't genuinely sorry for doing it, but don't run away you have to talk it out! 

[Wannatripbaby]

9 minutes ago, foofybabykitten said:

I'm curious what anyone else would do in this situation as Dani, i would probably be a little scared that the woman i thought i loved was monitoring everything i did; i might even end the relationship there if they weren't genuinely sorry for doing it, but don't run away you have to talk it out! 

I'm in the minority in that I would probably find that flattering in a strange way. Of course I'm also a middle child and used to being ignored, so there's something strangely appealing about the idea of a girl stalking me. Don't get me wrong, I'd be furious in the moment! But after emotions died down I would examine the primary issue (being her motivations and goals) and, finding that I can empathize or even agree with them could move forward with the relationship.

Of course, I'm viewing everything about Vanessa with Rose-Colored glasses so bare that in mind.

[bbykimmy]

13 minutes ago, chansu ragedashi said:

that was just cruel... i saw the name 'Lauren' and set my phone down to take a second and accept that things were going to go sideways super-fast! i just hope Dani and Vanessa are okay! i really hope they can make it all work out now that everything is on the table (i NEVER would have predicted that it would be vanessa being broken in such a way.)

I'd just like to point out that you've been rooting for the bad guy this whole time.

Think about it - if this story were told from a combination of Julian and Dani perspectives.

Girl meets hot woman who seems cool
The audience sees the woman stalking her, taking pictures of her in the park
She starts dating cute, well-put-together boy
Keeps running into woman
The audience sees the woman following Dani as she goes on her date, but Dani doesn't
Julian is so happy, has a great girlfriend, everything's going well
They get in a stupid fight over her purse and his best friend
Her apartment burns down
She moves in with the stalker

At this point the audience would be screaming:  "No Dani!  Don't!  You're gonna DIE!"

This is the moment of rescue, where the truth comes out and the victim has a chance to get away...

You've just been rooting for the sociopath this whole time.

8 minutes ago, Hopsalot said:

Dang it! I knew something like this was bound to happen but everything was just so perfect (or at least it looked that way) and now I gotta wait 24 hours to see if Dani’s ok!

I am so tempted to post more today, you have no idea.

9 minutes ago, foofybabykitten said:

I promise i'm not crying it's just eye sweat!  I'm really conflicted right now on one side i feel like Dani is justified in feeling manipulated and hurt because of Vanessa's actions but on the other side i know Vanessa was doing it so she could avoid having her heartbroken and so she could make Dani happy she just went about it the wrong way. I'm hoping they will pull through after a honest talk and Dani can see Vanessa's heart was in the right place and just didn't know how to be 100% honest.  I'm curious what anyone else would do in this situation as Dani, i would probably be a little scared that the woman i thought i loved was monitoring everything i did; i might even end the relationship there if they weren't genuinely sorry for doing it, but don't run away you have to talk it out! 

I sorry I made you cry <3

Honesty is the best policy.  Trust is super important.  Thank you for letting the story touch your heart.

[fyunch]

Did Vanessa have anything to do with the fire in Dani's place?

[bbykimmy]

7 minutes ago, fyunch said:

Did Vanessa have anything to do with the fire in Dani's place?

We experienced the story from her perspective... did she?

But if we were watching from Dani/Julian, it would sure look pretty damned suspicious wouldn't it?  The audience would be freaking out.

[Wannatripbaby]

19 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

Think about it - if this story were told from a combination of Julian and Dani perspectives.

Girl meets hot woman who seems cool
The audience sees the woman stalking her, taking pictures of her in the park
She starts dating cute, well-put-together boy
Keeps running into woman
The audience sees the woman following Dani as she goes on her date, but Dani doesn't
Julian is so happy, has a great girlfriend, everything's going well
They get in a stupid fight over her purse and his best friend
Her apartment burns down
She moves in with the stalker

At this point the audience would be screaming:  "No Dani!  Don't!  You're gonna DIE!"

This is the moment of rescue, where the truth comes out and the victim has a chance to get away...

You've just been rooting for the sociopath this whole time.

Well... you're not wrong. 

[bbykimmy]

3 minutes ago, Wannatripbaby said:

Well... you're not wrong. 

Do you still want her to win now?

[ELLIE52]

4 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

Do you still want her to win now?

I don't think she can win now.

[bbykimmy]

6 minutes ago, ELLIE52 said:

I don't think she can win now.

But do you want her to?

[chansu ragedashi]

17 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

You've just been rooting for the sociopath this whole time.

a lot of us have... because you write everything in a way where we can sympathize with her! you wrote in justifications from Vanessa's perspective that make her the story's victim at the beginning. if this were a horror movie without a narrator you're right, i'd be right there shouting "don't do it dumbass!" as Dani moves in with Vanessa. now that i think about it, Dani has the trust levels of a horror movie protagonist  but we're all seeing this story from the perspective of 'the terminator' (whom i think honestly cares for dani at this point.) but you're absolutely right, when i started to like the Dani/Nessa relationship Vanessa was still in total sociopathic creeper mode.

[ELLIE52]

8 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

Do you still want her to win now?

Oh, you're good, Kimmy.

Vanessa obviously has some problems, but I do think she was sincere in her feelings, but I don't think it matters now.

[Wannatripbaby]

4 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

Do you still want her to win now?

Yes, actually. What she did was wrong. But I'm a bit more pragmatic in my views of morality: Actions should be judged by their end result. The fact is, Dani really WAS happy. That was no lie. The reason Dani is upset is because she thinks the entirety of their relationship is a lie because the foundation was a lie. But that isn't the case. Regardless of how their relationship got to where it is now, their love for one another is real and love is enough to cover a multitude of sins.

 

10 minutes ago, ELLIE52 said:

I don't think she can win now.

YOU SHUT THE HELL UP, ELLIE!!!!! 

[bbykimmy]

4 minutes ago, Wannatripbaby said:

Yes, actually. What she did was wrong. But I'm a bit more pragmatic in my views of morality: Actions should be judged by their end result. The fact is, Dani really WAS happy. That was no lie. The reason Dani is upset is because she thinks the entirety of their relationship is a lie because the foundation was a lie. But that isn't the case. Regardless of how their relationship got to where it is now, their love for one another is real and love is enough to cover a multitude of sins.

 

YOU SHUT THE HELL UP, ELLIE!!!!! 

Be nice to Ellie - she takes things like that personally even though I can tell you're joking.  She's a sweet and sensitive soul.

But... what you're saying is that the ends justify the means?

8 minutes ago, ELLIE52 said:

Oh, you're good, Kimmy.

Vanessa obviously has some problems, but I do think she was sincere in her feelings, but I don't think it matters now.

But do you WANT her to win?

[ELLIE52]

8 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

But do you WANT her to win?

I've had mixed emotions for a while now.  Yes, sort of. No, maybe.  She needs someone to love and someone who will love her.  IRL, the trust would have been destroyed.  I don't say that lightly. But maybe you can work magic.

We should not want her to win.  She's been manipulative all along. But you feel a compassion for her.

[Wannatripbaby]

4 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

Be nice to Ellie - she takes things like that personally even though I can tell you're joking.  She's a sweet and sensitive soul.

You're right. I'm sorry, Ellie. Hugs? 

4 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

what you're saying is that the ends justify the means?

Yes, that is what I'm saying. Of course it doesn't always work in practice because sometimes people fail (willingly or otherwise) to see the full extent of what the End and the Means are. But in this closed system I believe her actions are justified if they lead to herself and Dani living happily ever after. Which is all Vanessa really wants.

[bbykimmy]

4 minutes ago, Wannatripbaby said:

You're right. I'm sorry, Ellie. Hugs? 

Yes, that is what I'm saying. Of course it doesn't always work in practice because sometimes people fail (willingly or otherwise) to see the full extent of what the End and the Means are. But in this closed system I believe her actions are justified if they lead to herself and Dani living happily ever after. Which is all Vanessa really wants.

So if Vanessa had gone a step farther and had burned down Dani's apartment, would you still be rooting for her?  It was the catalyst that got her to move in and their love to really bloom.

[ELLIE52]

s'OK, Trip.  This is sad business going on.

[Wannatripbaby]

3 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

So if Vanessa had gone a step farther and had burned down Dani's apartment, would you still be rooting for her?  It was the catalyst that got her to move in and their love to really bloom.

In that scenario the Means would've involved the destruction of people's homes and the possible deaths of several innocent bystanders. At that point the cost variable becomes far to great to justify. So no.

[ELLIE52]

6 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

So if Vanessa had gone a step farther and had burned down Dani's apartment, would you still be rooting for her?  It was the catalyst that got her to move in and their love to really bloom.

I did wonder back a while if she did it, but surely she did not?

[bbykimmy]

3 minutes ago, Wannatripbaby said:

In that scenario the Means would've involved the destruction of people's homes and the possible deaths of several innocent bystanders. At that point the cost variable becomes far to great to justify. So no.

But the end is the same - Dani falls in love and they live happily together.

So you have to say the end didn't justify the means.  Vanessa committed multiple felonies, so did Seth - nobody got hurt but it was still illegal and amoral.

3 minutes ago, ELLIE52 said:

I did wonder back a while if she did it, but surely she did not?

She didn't, but that fact that you wondered says a lot about your faith in the character

[ELLIE52]

5 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

She didn't, but that fact that you wondered says a lot about your faith in the character 

I realize this.   But....   she didn't.

That's about it for me today.  Later.

[Wannatripbaby]

5 minutes ago, bbykimmy said:

So you have to say the end didn't justify the means.  Vanessa committed multiple felonies, so did Seth - nobody got hurt but it was still illegal and amoral.

Assuming that your criteria for justification is the Law, then yes, the ends do not justify the means. But that's not my criteria. The Law is just a means of achieving justice. It is not the only means by any stretch of the imagination. Nor is Justice the only End worth striving for.

... Hmm. Maybe we should drop this line of inquiry before it gets too political? Because in order to go any deeper we'd have to start defining "What is Justice" or "Who decides the Law?" And this doesn't seem like quite the appropriate place for that. 

[the diaper mike]

OK kimmy got me hanging on every word You are sick and twisted but I freak love it