God's Opinions And Feelings..

[dpr13ca]

God made the trees that make the pulp for our diapers,God made the animals that make the cloth for our diapers,God made the dinos that made the oil that made the plastic for our diapers,God made the person that made the diapers,God made us and we wear the diapers,so why would he care one way or another if we chose to use his work for our peace of mind.

Stay diapered and dont worry about what others think,they really are too busy with what they are doing with what God made for them.

[Morv]

Nah, it's interesting to read people's thoughts and views. If you're offended by discussing religion, or politics, or whatever, then avoid those topics. Don't tell everyone else they can't discuss those things.

I for one do not believe it is possible to know the mind of god.

I also have some trouble with the view of a god that god knows everything before it happens -- that leads to a splippery slope of predestination. Eliminates the concept of free will. Suggests that people shouldn't be responsible for actions they had no way of avoiding. So on and so forth.

Botox said, "I have no problem knowing that when I die, my body will rot and I'm gone forever."

Personally this view perplexes me. Why? Because both science and religion tell us this is not what happens. Religion may acknowledge that your body will rot or burn, and otherwise return to the earth (Ashes to ashes, dust to dust... so on and so forth), but at the same time it suggests that the spirit goes elsewhere. Science takes a look at that whole process of returning to the earth and what comes out of it is that we're not just "gone," but rather that we disperse, we rejoin a greater system and just change what part of it we are.

Life and death in the universe are not really beginnings and endings. Dust exists floating around in the cosmos for millions, billions of years before some spark of energy and gravity causes such nebulas to give birth to what we know as stars. And stars, eventually they burn out, and die. And it is from the output of the fusion furnaces of early stars that such things, in later forming solar systems, as planets, moons and asteroids have been created. The universe is primarily hydrogen, and all heavier elements formed within stars, ancient and long since gone. In essence, everything that makes up our world except for the hydrogen in it was created within a star that died billions and billions of years ago. At a cosmic scale, stars live, die, and provide the opportunity for things far different from them to exist. So it is when a human dies, a plethora of events become possible. Change occurs, change that may leave a "person" unrecognizable as such. But that change is not true destruction.

No, nothing is ever gone forever. Information is not lost -- energy can be converted to mass and mass to energy, but neither is truly lost. Even if you don't believe in any particular religion, the universe is a system that does not waste, and its parts too, are not waste, and even, cannot be waste.

But, again, what does god think of our diaper wearing? I believe that a god is truly beyond our comprehension. For man to think as god is for a cartoon fish to comprehend the combusion engine's impact on the socio-political climate that led to the fall of the czar system in Russia. It is to ask us to emulate a mode of thought we cannot perceive, that we cannot begin to approach.

Yes, in many ways humanity is insignificant. I men, we're on a planet zipping around one star, one star in billions that exist. Our star is one of millions of members of a single galaxy, of which a plethora exist. Entire galaxies out there collide. Stars explode, sending shock waves through entire sections of galaxies. Black holes suck up entire stars. And amid all this reality out there, I do not see god spending too much time on a fraction of a population of a warm-blooded bipedal species that has only been intelligent for a blink of an eye in cosmic time, and that only recently came to be the dominant life form of a single planet among billions and billions of examples to be had. Not too much time.

[jenniebear]

first i am assuming that this question is being asked by someone who is not incontinent but wears for pleasure or relief....

while i am a christian... i am not exactly sure where i and my diaper wearing falls into gods plan...i do not feel i am doing anything "unchristian like" by wearing a diaper to relax and destress....

wearing in a fetish context however...may not be all that christian like... especially when my Daddy happens to be involved in the fetish activity being engaged in ...especially since W/we are unmarried...

i do think that it is extremely important to listen to ones own conscience though...it is within yourself to decide what you can and cannot accept of and from yourself...you may or may not be ruled by a religion ...but either way....if something isn't "good" for your soul then it certainly isn't good for you.......

acceptance and balance i believe are the key here.......and how you accomplish these two things is dependent on who you are and what you believe

basically what i think it boils down to is......if you are a diaper wearer......and you are in conflict with that.........you probably need to focus on acceptance of what ...why....who..and how you are ....maybe it's just about giving yourself permission to go against the "norm" and enjoy something that society has said is "bad"...whatever it is...break it down and find the "goods" and "bads".....and then decide....do the "goods" outweigh the legitimacy of the "bads"..............its my belief that they will.......

[rickibrat2]

I was curious from a philosophical point of view what other people believe. I am both a person of faith and knowledge.. Id you knew me you'd undrstand why I am a faithful person. But I am far from being the perfect religious disciple who attends cdhurch every sunday, but i wont delve into that. I was just curious as to what other peoples thoughts and opinions are. I asked the moderater before I posted so the topic is an okay one...

problem as i see it is the bible was written by man for man

god did not rite the bible

king james want to leave his wife so he had it rewritten to please him the popes have done the same thing many times

[Necros]

Actually, if you look at most wars, they occur because people believe in themselves WAY too much. They think they are perfect or superior somehow, and hence all others should be eliminated or subjugated. This kind of self-worship is what starts most wars, and most religions deal with the appreciation of all humanity. Just because some religious people worship themselves, and God/humanity second, does not mean that's what most religions are about. Those people are missing the point, because I know that the Catholic/Christian, Jewish and Islamic faiths at least, are about believing in yourself within and as a part of society.

In any case, it's clear that self-worship has caused far more bloodshed than any religion. If our bloody history is any indication, we do need religion. However, we need good religions, just as we need good government and societies. There are many faiths that fit this profile, despite the errant member here and there, and the problem periods of their pasts.

hmm, point made. But man created religion and so religion is the creation of man ... man in nature is corrupt. Thus religion by default is corrupt. Without religion no man would "believe" they are greater then another man because of his faith (because no faith would exist). In other words a lot less bloodshed would have been spilled in the name of "religion". But i am not saying all bloodshed would have been avoided, like i said man is corrupt and so man always searches to gain power over another. Hence all the bloodshed.

Thats what i was saying, no religion = a lot less bloodshed in the history of man.

In theory, there is NO good religion ... their all a creation of man (who is corrupt) who desperately tries to explain and give meaning to his/her life beyond death. But the fact is, we will never know until we die! So why freaking argue what this god thinks of us and why this one needs this to be happy ... when we don't even know anything xD. Its foolish and pointless, and not to mention illogical! Thats what i meant by saying believe in yourself because to this date we are all our own gods, and no one can prove otherwise. (and i'm not saying we are superior in anyway, i'm merely stating the fact that nothing in this world can govern or oversee us like we ourselves can.)

Necros~

[Chibiusa255]

Here's what I think:

"Do what keepeth thou from wilting shall be the loophole of the law"

Oh, and posting in a religion thread that's not degraded into flames and personal attacks

[SoCalGav]

Okay, sorry to be such a downer thus far. I just believe that everyone

[Guest]

pigeonhole

That word is so much fun to say!

[Repaid1]

Some comments on here, some like this thread lead me to believe that there is hope to humanity as we have known it.. others....well, nuff said. The first thing You will learn if you haven't already, is every war has been started over 2 things... Politics or religion.. stay away from both on the threads and life.. you'll do well to serve yourselve well.

Stick with SoCalGav. Discuss it one on one, where it belongs.... in most bars it will get you killed.. in life, soon it will. In the World, better check the news!!! There is no greater thought on the subject, been there done that. Prove me wrong. Leave these discussions amongst friends and collegues. I have killed those that I didn't know over less, But I was a Marine under orders, this world isn't what it was.. and life doen'st change just because you think it should.

Behave, wear diapers.. and keep this board in respect...there's many other places on the internet to voice such a opinion, should you be brave enough.

[SoCalGav]

^ The voice of wisdom!

[:dlb]

Why is it so hard to comprehend that I wanted to hear what the ppl here had to say. I wasnt lookin for guidance, i'm not looking for debate, i'm lookin for thoughts, opinions, and beliefs. As the marine mentioned above he knows about free speech and I'm using that right. I'm not hurting anybody as are evferybody who replied. If you dont wanna talk about religion you don't have to particpate.

thx

[Repaid1]

Thank you Sir.. (With Respect)...

There is a couple of comments to with I must respond..

The Bible (Christen, King James) was certainly not written by man (per to say). I argue for the simple fact. That yes King James asked for it to be transscribed albit not correctly in order, but what his people (schollars) decided the order....wrong, by the dead sea scrolls Which were written 1000's of years before and such subsequently passed down to what is known as the bible, alas..carrrying on.). But the Bible Clearly states et al.... That the Bible was Written by the hand of man through God, and then subsequently states that anyone who changes Gods word of whom he has said, will clearly die a ungodly fate.. means simply. That God said what he wanted to say..then held the hand ( your interpitation) for his disciple to write it down. and warned whoever.. do not change or slinder my words, or suffer the thus the same ultimate fate (so therefor I said it, don't change it, or die forever).

It is a fun religion said within a logical standpoint, but straught with so many modern day faults of knowledge and factual information. While I must admit that it holds it's own among many religions (even though everyone who follows is allowed to vary what they want to believe by denomination) because it is among the few religions that claims rightousness and truth after claiming immaculate conception.

In factual documentation it was the 28th religion that claimed that honor by history. A simple Book that holds history within it self, but few (extremely few) historical documents of the era can claim the same about it's venues of claims within its chapters, which should lead you to a conclusion.

Okay enough of that... the fact is I do believe in a God/Gods, but simply the Bible is obliously (PLEASE!) the work of man using a hope or faith. Claim your religion, and prove it to a fact, without using the words "Hope" or "Faith" in the context.

My God(s) is one proven factual undeniability (questionable ehh maybe..debateable is better than faith) that one's God would have given to his Children a choice to be what he gave them to be..themselves!. The point simply made is ...this is exactly why this topic doesn't belong here.. whether okay'd or not..just making a point!

MLB hang in there, Your asking for a topic that you didn't ask quite right or elequently to which you expected, basically from what I said you opened up the whole can of whoop-ass.. people will voice a opinion not a fact.. therefore you can summarize the answers and replys.. still your my hero..well anyway, respected...Cheers

[Necros]

Thank you Sir.. (With Respect)...

There is a couple of comments to with I must respond..

The Bible (Christen, King James) was certainly not written by man (per to say). I argue for the simple fact. That yes King James asked for it to be transscribed albit not correctly in order, but what his people (schollars) decided the order....wrong, by the dead sea scrolls Which were written 1000's of years before and such subsequently passed down to what is known as the bible, alas..carrrying on.). But the Bible Clearly states et al.... That the Bible was Written by the hand of man through God, and then subsequently states that anyone who changes Gods word of whom he has said, will clearly die a ungodly fate.. means simply. That God said what he wanted to say..then held the hand ( your interpitation) for his disciple to write it down. and warned whoever.. do not change or slinder my words, or suffer the thus the same ultimate fate (so therefor I said it, don't change it, or die forever).

It is a fun religion said within a logical standpoint, but straught with so many modern day faults of knowledge and factual information. While I must admit that it holds it's own among many religions (even though everyone who follows is allowed to vary what they want to believe by denomination) because it is among the few religions that claims rightousness and truth after claiming immaculate conception.

In factual documentation it was the 28th religion that claimed that honor by history. A simple Book that holds history within it self, but few (extremely few) historical documents of the era can claim the same about it's venues of claims within its chapters, which should lead you to a conclusion.

Okay enough of that... the fact is I do believe in a God/Gods, but simply the Bible is obliously (PLEASE!) the work of man using a hope or faith. Claim your religion, and prove it to a fact, without using the words "Hope" or "Faith" in the context.

My God(s) is one proven factual undeniability (questionable ehh maybe..debateable is better than faith) that one's God would have given to his Children a choice to be what he gave them to be..themselves!. The point simply made is ...this is exactly why this topic doesn't belong here.. whether okay'd or not..just making a point!

MLB hang in there, Your asking for a topic that you didn't ask quite right or elequently to which you expected, basically from what I said you opened up the whole can of whoop-ass.. people will voice a opinion not a fact.. therefore you can summarize the answers and replys.. still your my hero..well anyway, respected...Cheers

I beg the differ, man created the bible and with or without hope/faith it was corrupted by the hands of its very creator. Take it this way, why believe in a book written thousands of years ago by a man who didn't even know the first thing about fair judgment, equality in sexes .... and it goes on. Even if "god" gave some sort of hope or faith to this bible writer ... what do you think he interpreted it has? Well we clearly see whats the result, blood, in the name of this "Holy" book ...

Anyways in my eyes religion sickens me because they only spell pain, sorrow, bloodshed and feed people with the belief that they can blame god for their actions. Even if you believe in a so called god ... your probably fooling yourself in the end, because you don't know whats after death~

I for one choose to live life like i want it and not pollute my mind with imaginary friends that you can't rely on because in the end you've only got yourself your friends and family to rely on ... you know what they say, imaginary friends are normal for children, but when you grow up so should your mind. I grew up, i don't need an imaginary friend anymore. (not that i ever had one)

But thats just me ranting, don't take this personally ... i guess this is my way of saying to each their own, and that this ain't a flame intended post ... i just feel very strongly towards religion.

Necros~ (And no pun intended for the children and growing up part lol)

[jenniebear]

personally i've enjoyed the topic...it didn't seem to me anyone got too out of control...too upset nor did it seem there there was any need to close the thread....

I agree if you want to discuss it...then by all means ...read the posts and ...share and add if you wish.......if you don't wish to join in....discuss or share or hear anyone elses views......then don't read...simple as that....

personally i do not take insult at how someone else views anything.........if i have an opinion that means i've enough experience or knowledge to base my opinion on....maybe if you choose to offer something enlightening i may even alter my opinion....i enjoy growing

i believe it is good to understand others basic beliefs......to not know or not understand leaves you assuming......

[Red Barchetta]

personally i've enjoyed the topic...it didn't seem to me anyone got too out of control...too upset nor did it seem there there was any need to close the thread....

I agree if you want to discuss it...then by all means ...read the posts and ...share and add if you wish.......if you don't wish to join in....discuss or share or hear anyone elses views......then don't read...simple as that....

personally i do not take insult at how someone else views anything.........if i have an opinion that means i've enough experience or knowledge to base my opinion on....maybe if you choose to offer something enlightening i may even alter my opinion....i enjoy growing

i believe it is good to understand others basic beliefs......to not know or not understand leaves you assuming......

[superdiaperbaby]

There is quite a lot of substantial factual documentation supporting the Bible in its current form as being 99% equal to the oldest manuscripts we have - dating as far back as 180 AD. Before then it is logical to assume that the original documents were copied with clarity by very devout followers who could have witnessed the death and resurrection firsthand. And as far as bible facts go, the historical accuracy of all of the event locations in the old and new testaments that once were thought to be erroneous were confirmed as facts in the 20th century. Many archeologists thus converted to Christianity, include the discoverer of the dead sea scrolls who sought out to disprove Luke from the new testament. Also, the fact is that the historical events surrounding the first century were corroborated by over 20,000 new testament pieces and copies in the first 3 centuries. There is more evidence for the historical accuracy of what the new testament portrays than in any other century before that time period, by far. If you dismiss the new testament as falsehood by some archaeological reasoning then you must dismiss every recorded historical event beforehand because of the lack of corroborating evidence.

Other later facts also lend credibility to the new testament, such as the 11 deaths of the disciples afterwards, who were killed because they were Christians. It was Roman custom that they renounce Christianity and bow to Roman Gods. These disciples, who were claimed eyewitnesses, could have said they made it up and lived. Instead they chose to die. It doesn't make sense that someone would die for a lie, let alone 11 people for the same story. (although it is possible, it wouldn't make sense).

Here is the thing. Despite what everyone says, there is only one way. It is sad from our point of view. But God says that many seeds will be smothered and many seeds will grow among thorns. If you thought of us as seeds you might understand just a little from God's point of view and that it is not horrible that those who don't believe will die, because they were born dead anyways.

Repaid,

From the perspective you give, it seems that in your mind, even if there was a personal God, it would be impossible for Him to do miracles, such as immaculate conception, rising from the dead, or even speak through the hand of the disciples, or even speak through King James men, so that God's words of truth are still made known. It is just an observation, but I believe that it is not faith that is needed, but logic. For me, it is completely logical that the person who created the world and the universe has enough power to do anything He pleases, even outside the realm of our own perception. It is not faith, but logic.

I have heard the argument that immaculate conception was used in other religions, but so what? It does not disprove anything. In order to disprove the writers of the Bible, you have to have proof that they knew about those religions and you have to have proof that they all made it up, including the 500 eyewitnesses of the resurrected Jesus in Acts. The fact is that there is not enough factual knowledge to disprove the Old or New Testaments. You have to have faith in the little deductive reasoning done to disprove the Bible, while I have faith in the massive amount of deductive reasoning that has proven the Bible true.

Hugs,

Super Diaper Baby

Thank you Sir.. (With Respect)...

There is a couple of comments to with I must respond..

The Bible (Christen, King James) was certainly not written by man (per to say). I argue for the simple fact. That yes King James asked for it to be transscribed albit not correctly in order, but what his people (schollars) decided the order....wrong, by the dead sea scrolls Which were written 1000's of years before and such subsequently passed down to what is known as the bible, alas..carrrying on.). But the Bible Clearly states et al.... That the Bible was Written by the hand of man through God, and then subsequently states that anyone who changes Gods word of whom he has said, will clearly die a ungodly fate.. means simply. That God said what he wanted to say..then held the hand ( your interpitation) for his disciple to write it down. and warned whoever.. do not change or slinder my words, or suffer the thus the same ultimate fate (so therefor I said it, don't change it, or die forever).

It is a fun religion said within a logical standpoint, but straught with so many modern day faults of knowledge and factual information. While I must admit that it holds it's own among many religions (even though everyone who follows is allowed to vary what they want to believe by denomination) because it is among the few religions that claims rightousness and truth after claiming immaculate conception.

[Necros]

There is quite a lot of substantial factual documentation supporting the Bible in its current form as being 99% equal to the oldest manuscripts we have - dating as far back as 180 AD. Before then it is logical to assume that the original documents were copied with clarity by very devout followers who could have witnessed the death and resurrection firsthand. And as far as bible facts go, the historical accuracy of all of the event locations in the old and new testaments that once were thought to be erroneous were confirmed as facts in the 20th century. Many archeologists thus converted to Christianity, include the discoverer of the dead sea scrolls who sought out to disprove Luke from the new testament. Also, the fact is that the historical events surrounding the first century were corroborated by over 20,000 new testament pieces and copies in the first 3 centuries. There is more evidence for the historical accuracy of what the new testament portrays than in any other century before that time period, by far. If you dismiss the new testament as falsehood by some archaeological reasoning then you must dismiss every recorded historical event beforehand because of the lack of corroborating evidence.

Other later facts also lend credibility to the new testament, such as the 11 deaths of the disciples afterwards, who were killed because they were Christians. It was Roman custom that they renounce Christianity and bow to Roman Gods. These disciples, who were claimed eyewitnesses, could have said they made it up and lived. Instead they chose to die. It doesn't make sense that someone would die for a lie, let alone 11 people for the same story. (although it is possible, it wouldn't make sense).

Here is the thing. Despite what everyone says, there is only one way. It is sad from our point of view. But God says that many seeds will be smothered and many seeds will grow among thorns. If you thought of us as seeds you might understand just a little from God's point of view and that it is not horrible that those who don't believe will die, because they were born dead anyways.

Repaid,

From the perspective you give, it seems that in your mind, even if there was a personal God, it would be impossible for Him to do miracles, such as immaculate conception, rising from the dead, or even speak through the hand of the disciples, or even speak through King James men, so that God's words of truth are still made known. It is just an observation, but I believe that it is not faith that is needed, but logic. For me, it is completely logical that the person who created the world and the universe has enough power to do anything He pleases, even outside the realm of our own perception. It is not faith, but logic.

I have heard the argument that immaculate conception was used in other religions, but so what? It does not disprove anything. In order to disprove the writers of the Bible, you have to have proof that they knew about those religions and you have to have proof that they all made it up, including the 500 eyewitnesses of the resurrected Jesus in Acts. The fact is that there is not enough factual knowledge to disprove the Old or New Testaments. You have to have faith in the little deductive reasoning done to disprove the Bible, while I have faith in the massive amount of deductive reasoning that has proven the Bible true.

Hugs,

Super Diaper Baby

I wasn't questioning the historical accuracy of these documents, i said they are corrupt because they were written by humans and humans are corrupt in nature. Every human at one point wants power over other humans and the more power we are bestowed upon the more we become corrupt, imagine what the original bible writer must of thought "Hmm, wow this book can be used for so much good but damn it could also be used for untold horrors ... oh well not my problem, i'll write it anyways because some guy that calls himself god told me too. *begins writing while whistling hitlers fav song*". This is why i said its corrupt and in essence useless.

Oh and those 11 deaths could EASILY be explained, just look in history of humanity, how many times did a cult leader die and soon after his disciples kick the bucket in some weird way. Hmm, suspicious don't you think so .

How selfish to think that there is only one way that's not nice, you say i was born dead ... but i feel alive, must be a fluke. Everything said about god is speculations, know why, because god ain't here ... why do you think he thinks such things? Are you in direct mind link with the all mighty one? Nah, its ok all religious people act this way because people who talk like this shake the very foundation of their beliefs and they don't like it so they blaber about god saying stuff. I'm not offended and i'm not trying to offend anyone ... i'm just trying to state that the bible is written words of a man that had not even half our current knowledge. Thus quoting it makes the argument automatically balance in the other guys favor. This being the logical side of things.

I don't deny that this book had some good guidelines! Its great to teach what we already know like, love each and everyone like you would love yourself and stuff like that. But as far as rules being stated from this book goes, their not useful in todays society and about the historical facts and happenings ... well its a cute story, thats why it made millions when mel gybson made a movie about it.

Anyways, don't hate, love!

Necros~

[SoCalGav]

*sigh*

Same old arguments I’ve been hearing since freshman year of college, that goes for both sides. Although Super Diaper Baby did bust the “Logic not faith” argument, I don’t see that one much. Props.

Necros, I have trouble respecting your argument about corruption. You are making a sweeping generalization about the nature of man, and while I don’t necessarily disagree with you, generalizations don’t normally hold up in a debate. In addition, for the most part the Bible speaks about lowering yourself, having humility, loving one another, and other things that you would not expect to find in a human wanting more power over other humans. Lastly you are making a statement about the writer(s) of the Bible when it seems that you don’t even know who they were or how they lived, so it forces the question, how could you know what him/her/they were thinking?

You could make the argument that the Bible is corrupt because of the various people that have read it throughout history and have interpreted (or misinterpreted) it to mean any number of things and have gone and done horrible acts because of their interpretation; thus making the Bible a bad thing, or “corrupt”. Or you could make the argument that religion or more specifically Christianity, is corrupt for any number of reasons. You might get a little further with one of those two.

[Red Barchetta]

Lastly you are making a statement about the writer(s) of the Bible when it seems that you don’t even know who they were or how they lived, so it forces the question, how could you know what him/her/they were thinking?

Since I can't find the study anywhere (not that I spent much time looking, just a quick glance) I'll just mention this - take it however you wish, it's not meant to spark an argument, only for informational purpose - and yes, without a link to the actual study, it could even be considered nothing more than hear-say, so - for informational reasons only:

Years ago I heard of a computer analysis done on the oldest scripts known to exist of the Bible, looking for number of authors, and this analysis come up with 1.

However, here is something with info I can actually provide a link too (again just a quick glance, but....) as for number of actual humans recording it, there were about 40, for more info on this - go here: http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-authors.html

[SoCalGav]

Thank you for your contribution Red.

[Morv]

I don't often have an isssue with conversations getting off topic, but, I'm putting up a red flag here.

Let's try to get back on topic:

Religion/god and diapers.

A discussion of the validity of religious texts and religions in general belongs in a different topic, which should be clearly labeled because some people really do want to avoid that conversation.

Diaper wearing for fun/pleasure and God/religion's view of it. Your thoughts?

[:dlb]

I don't often have an isssue with conversations getting off topic, but, I'm putting up a red flag here.

Let's try to get back on topic:

Religion/god and diapers.

A discussion of the validity of religious texts and religions in general belongs in a different topic, which should be clearly labeled because some people really do want to avoid that conversation.

Diaper wearing for fun/pleasure and God/religion's view of it. Your thoughts?

THX Morv

[SoCalGav]

Where else would you expect this conversation to go? Come on.

[curious]

I don't often have an isssue with conversations getting off topic, but, I'm putting up a red flag here.

Let's try to get back on topic:

Religion/god and diapers.

A discussion of the validity of religious texts and religions in general belongs in a different topic, which should be clearly labeled because some people really do want to avoid that conversation.

Diaper wearing for fun/pleasure and God/religion's view of it. Your thoughts?

yea.. thanks morv... this was a totally innocent topic just meant to be simple... dlb just was "CURIOUS" (hehe) as to what ppl think God might think of diaper wearers.. period! He got my advice first before posting this and I said talk to the admins if u want, then go for it! Thanks MORV..and I love u DLB!

[SoCalGav]

This is pathetic.