Omg, I'M Fat!

[Diaper Mike 05]

I'm 6' 2", 315 and doctors haven't expressed concern with my weight or blood pressure (except the one time I was real sick and my BP was up then, but it's always normal). The doctor is more amazed that at my weight, I have taken up playing a sport that is very physically demanding and don't have problems playing except the normal getting fatigued after 2 hours. They won't be too concerned if in all other ways, you're pretty healthy.

[Little Faerie]

Indeed. The BMI index thing is worthless. I was admitted to the hospital a year ago for extreme vertigo, and was told by the doctors that I needed to gain between 5 and 10 lbs because I was reacting to my medication as if I were underweight. At that time, I was physically fit (I could run a mile and walk several) and within the "ideal" range for my age and height. I was 147 lbs at 5'8. I was getting sick all the time (I caught two separate types of flu, and a head cold in 2 months), I had migraines, fainting spells, the list goes on. Oddly, my cholesterol was high for the first time ever. After gaining 12 lbs, I felt much better, and looked better too. The extra 12 THIS summer was unnecessary but I've just about gotten rid of it I blame moving from Missouri to Southern California. The food is just fantastic here! So many new local cheeses to try! Point is, never rely on just the scale. You have to figure out how much is dense muscle and how much is actual fat, and go from there.

[Diaper Mike 05]

I just found out my triglycerides are high, so that's a warning marker. And my cholesterol is somewhat high. But my pulse and BP are OK, so they're giving me a few months to try and work it out naturally with exercise and diet (also, I go to the gym, do the yard work and play sports, and have been losing weight over the last few months, so they want to see if that is helping my cause before I go on meds). But they still aren't too concerned about my weight, LOL, because I told them what I do and that I want to lose it anyway and have been.

[Diapers4Me]

If you are fat but fit, you are worse off than if you are lean and fit. It is that simple. Excess fat causes all sorts of medical issues. If your doctor isn't telling you this, then he/she is not doing their job. One can hide behind the rationlization that being fat and fit is better than being lean and unfit, but this is non-sense.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

Take ti up with Dr. Edell. He has already quoted two studies on his show and gone into the why's. Part of it has to do with having resources in reserve to survive a medical crisis. He has gone on at length

[KittenAB]

I just found out my triglycerides are high, so that's a warning marker. And my cholesterol is somewhat high. But my pulse and BP are OK, so they're giving me a few months to try and work it out naturally with exercise and diet (also, I go to the gym, do the yard work and play sports, and have been losing weight over the last few months, so they want to see if that is helping my cause before I go on meds). But they still aren't too concerned about my weight, LOL, because I told them what I do and that I want to lose it anyway and have been.

Okay ... um telling you this from experience, if you are on female hormones or yours are naturally high ... make sure you eat fatty foods with low cholesterol. Gallbladder removal is not fun and that's what happened to me. Mine were high to, and I went into a salad kick (sometimes I crave them) for a while, eating a lot of low fat foods just because my area doesn't have a very good selection of healthy foods with fat now, and the cholesterol in my gallbladder hardened into stones. The theory is that if you can keep the gallbladder active enough it will pump out the stones before they become big enough to be dangerous. For some reason female hormones trigger the formation of stones to, and I'm only warning you about this now so you won't have to find out the hard way.

Sometimes the cholesterol and tris are high because the body doesn't process and store them, if you are thin as well then you will likely have the problem. The downside to eating the high fat foods is that you have to stay active as well.

[Diapers4Me]

I'd rather not take my medical guidance from an opthamologist who quit over 10 years ago to sell antiques and now is a talk show host. Sorry, but just because he preaches to the most over weight country in the world that it is ok to be overweight, and because he has a huge following of people that like what he says (surprise), doesn't make it right.

"Eat, drink and be merry!"....you'll be fine! No surprise he no longer has a license to practice medicine.

I guess we'll agree to disagree...

[Diapers4Me]

Oh yeah....to the original poster....WAY TO GO! We got off track on your post...but glad to read you are planning to lose weight!

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

I'd rather not take my medical guidance from an opthamologist who quit over 10 years ago to sell antiques and now is a talk show host. Sorry, but just because he preaches to the most over weight country in the world that it is ok to be overweight, and because he has a huge following of people that like what he says (surprise), doesn't make it right.

"Eat, drink and be merry!"....you'll be fine! No surprise he no longer has a license to practice medicine.

I guess we'll agree to disagree...

Well, let us see the courage of your convictions: Call him up and take it up with him. You have made not one releventt (read medical) point here. Even though most of what you say is true and even if all of it is true, it just does not matter here. As an opthamologist and trained in surgery, he knows the medical territory and how to evaluate what is put forth. He not only tells you what, but how come. I can verify some of his methodology from my own training in Research Methods. I also know when he is blowing it out his bazooka and generally disagree with 88% of his views on psychology. Now, if I said he knows what he's talking about, it is because he brings out the reasearch to back it up and states whether or not a piece of research is to be taken as good based on prameters that I, for one, understand. Crack open a book on research methods and do not let the t-test or Ducan Range Test scare you.

This goes back to something I said in the 1980's "Never argue with the natives unless you have convincing proof to the contrary. For one thing, the natives live there and know the territory. The could BS you to the moon and, unless you know the facts better, you would not be able to know it". Or, as Jimmy Buffett put it in one of his songs "Don't try to talk about what you've never seen or you just might end up in my song" and the fact that you are trying to convict him on irrelevencies that would get you tossed out of Logic 101 is proof of that (and yes, I've taken, or been taken by, Logic 101 and know a subtle Ad Hominem Fallacy when I see it)

[Diapers4Me]

Just do a google search, there are plenty of medical studies that support the fact that obesity contributes to hypertension, heart disease, diabetes and more.

The Cooper Foundation has done a number of good studies on weight, fitness and mortality. But NO ONE says that what I state above isn't true. Please point to one study that does!

Health is a complex interwoven maze of interacting systems. When we know that one type of adversity (like obesity) is bad for your health and contributes to SERIOUS health issues, ignoring it due to studies about fitness alone is bad medicine. Data can easily be manipulated to tell you what you want - yes, I'm qualified to say that as a Six Sigma Black Belt quality engineer who has taken more statistics classes than I care to remember.

Climb off your high horse and open your mind. Stop reading only those studies that refer to fitness and weight, and try reading some studies about diabetes and weight! Just because you are fit, doesn't mean you won't develop diabetes!

Try looking at some very simple statistics....the US has one of the lowest life expectancies of the 1st world nations, and is the fattest....huh....no correllation there for the natives to see!

I can't believe I am wasting my time trying to counter ONE X-physician's talk show banter in comparison to a nation of extremely qualified current medical experts. It isn't called MORBID obesity for nothing....I've been there...it sucks....I liked eating anything I wanted....but it isn't healthy. Dream that it is if you like.

[BabyAmyB2G]

I am a little heavy in the tummy and its gonna stay there because i want it there. Its for me to pretend I am preggy. I just dont want it to spread around.

Well, let us see the courage of your convictions: Call him up and take it up with him. You have made not one releventt (read medical) point here. Even though most of what you say is true and even if all of it is true, it just does not matter here. As an opthamologist and trained in surgery, he knows the medical territory and how to evaluate what is put forth. He not only tells you what, but how come. I can verify some of his methodology from my own training in Research Methods. I also know when he is blowing it out his bazooka and generally disagree with 88% of his views on psychology. Now, if I said he knows what he's talking about, it is because he brings out the reasearch to back it up and states whether or not a piece of research is to be taken as good based on prameters that I, for one, understand. Crack open a book on research methods and do not let the t-test or Ducan Range Test scare you.

This goes back to something I said in the 1980's "Never argue with the natives unless you have convincing proof to the contrary. For one thing, the natives live there and know the territory. The could BS you to the moon and, unless you know the facts better, you would not be able to know it". Or, as Jimmy Buffett put it in one of his songs "Don't try to talk about what you've never seen or you just might end up in my song" and the fact that you are trying to convict him on irrelevencies that would get you tossed out of Logic 101 is proof of that (and yes, I've taken, or been taken by, Logic 101 and know a subtle Ad Hominem Fallacy when I see it)

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

Just do a google search, there are plenty of medical studies that support the fact that obesity contributes to hypertension, heart disease, diabetes and more.

The Cooper Foundation has done a number of good studies on weight, fitness and mortality. But NO ONE says that what I state above isn't true. Please point to one study that does!

Health is a complex interwoven maze of interacting systems. When we know that one type of adversity (like obesity) is bad for your health and contributes to SERIOUS health issues, ignoring it due to studies about fitness alone is bad medicine. Data can easily be manipulated to tell you what you want - yes, I'm qualified to say that as a Six Sigma Black Belt quality engineer who has taken more statistics classes than I care to remember.

Climb off your high horse and open your mind. Stop reading only those studies that refer to fitness and weight, and try reading some studies about diabetes and weight! Just because you are fit, doesn't mean you won't develop diabetes!

Try looking at some very simple statistics....the US has one of the lowest life expectancies of the 1st world nations, and is the fattest....huh....no correllation there for the natives to see!

I can't believe I am wasting my time trying to counter ONE X-physician's talk show banter in comparison to a nation of extremely qualified current medical experts. It isn't called MORBID obesity for nothing....I've been there...it sucks....I liked eating anything I wanted....but it isn't healthy. Dream that it is if you like.

You are not trying to counter one ex-physician (like all propagandists, you not too cleverly confound the message with the messenger). You are arguing against up to date material and someone who can evaluate it and someone who can evaluate what he reports. As I said, and this is the THIRD time. He works from specific studies and abstracts them. Implicit in that is that he sources his material.

Second, and you would know this if you knew what you are talking about, meaning, listening to his program. Edell does NOT recommend being obese and has gone out of his way to say so. You do not know the parameters we are using.. In fact, he recommends against obesity. and you would know that if you knew what you were talking about, meaning listened to his program. I thought you had sense enough to know that we are not talking about "obese but fit [which I take to be a contradiction in terms]" Now, to make sure we understand each other the title of the thread is "OMG; I'm Fat" not "OMG: I'm Obese". So obesity is off the table. Also it was stated in terms of BMI which means noting to me. Also, too is how the fat is distributed in the body.

I will also point out about life expectency. that they US is still very genetically diverse being only 300 years and still being settled. . Life expectancy also includes accidental deaths, not just health related. Also, the life expectancy increased at a rate of about 7 years per 20 years from 1900 to 1968 going from 46 and change to 70 and change (Met Life) and has only gone up 9 and change since then and this is AFTER we started going ona the health binge that began in the early 1970's.

[timmyc]

I've never in my life weighed more than 150lbs.

Exercise....strict diet....little alcohol....no cigs. I'm gonna be one very old ABDL.

Or you could get hit by a bus tomorrow, you never know in this funny game of life.

[timmyc]

I am a big man probably overweight but more muscle than fat. I have an active job. I do tend to stress eat which I know is not helpful I do try to watch what I eat, when I am consciously trying I can drop some weight pretty easily. I am not a hypochondriac, I don't run to a doctor for every little thing. I generally don't like doctors at all. It seems like most medications create negative side effects that usually require more medications. When I have had physicals, I am always described as healthy as a horse. I live my life and try not to worry about it, when my time comes I will die. I don't want to be dieing for years in an old folks home. We can extend life, but unless we can guarantee the quality of a long life growing into an old man is not high on my priority list. I try to live a healthy life, not always easy but I put my life in the hands of God, more than a for profit doctor.

[Diapers4Me]

I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were trying to say that being fat wasn't unhealthy. Since the majority of Americans that say they are fat are actually obese.....things look bad....

Link to Obesity article

[Diapers4Me]

And why the heck would I bother listening to a talk show host ponitificate about health and healthcare? He's a TALK SHOW HOST not a Doctor! If he was any good at being a Doctor, he still would be one!

I don't need to listen to his moronic show to know what I'm talking about. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that being obese is bad for you. Being fit and obese is less bad for you...yes....but that is pretty stupid logic!

I'm done with your high and mighty arrogance on the topic....eat away darling! I'm sure your talk show host will give you comfort in being fit....

[KittenAB]

I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were trying to say that being fat wasn't unhealthy. Since the majority of Americans that say they are fat are actually obese.....things look bad....

Link to Obesity article

What are they basing these statistics on?

BMI is not even a scientific scale, by the way.

[Little BabyDoll Christine]

And why the heck would I bother listening to a talk show host ponitificate about health and healthcare? He's a TALK SHOW HOST not a Doctor! If he was any good at being a Doctor, he still would be one!

I don't need to listen to his moronic show to know what I'm talking about. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that being obese is bad for you. Being fit and obese is less bad for you...yes....but that is pretty stupid logic!

I'm done with your high and mighty arrogance on the topic....eat away darling! I'm sure your talk show host will give you comfort in being fit....

Let me get this straight, You commented and got huffy about something to which you have not listened and therefore know nothing about.. That is one powerful admission.

You have more courage than I for admitting that. I would much rather be thought a fool and say nothing than open my mouth and remove all doubt.

The minute you went off on your first tirade I knew the way of it. There is nothing wrong with shooting off your mouth: just make sure you are not firing blanks.

[Diapers4Me]

You don't need to listen to his show to find out EXACTLY what he says....ever heard of Google?

You have removed all doubt for sure about your ability to reason. You are continuing to argue about something you've already agreed to....not sure what point you are now trying to make?

And BMI is about as scientific as you can get. It is simply two very easy to obtain metrics, with one divided by the other. That is about as crystal clear a valid metric as you can find anywhere in medicine. Now if you meant to say that the use of this valid metric in determining the overall health of the subject requires you look at the subject in a more holistic fashion, then I would agree with that rational statement. I would further agree that you can't simply just look at obesity (as calculated by BMI) and say that being obese on its own is a guarantee of health problems. But you can look at the studies and know that obesity is correlated with a host of health issues, which can kill you. The one thing I can agree with your talk show host on, is that we are far from understanding the complex interrelationships between the various systems in the human body. But to throw out all the studies that show that there IS a direct correlation between obesity and say for instance diabetes, and to generalize that and say that it is OK to be obese if you are fit, is bad medicine. And for someone to say this to a large population is in my opinion, immoral.

He sure is popular though. And that is what his show is all about...ratings. He makes money the more you listen to him. And if more people listen when he says...."Eat all you want", he makes more money. Just like that Fox "News" talk show host....he spouts the most ridiculous lies, and quotes all sorts of published data, but he still has many things flat out wrong. But I'm guess you believe everything you hear on the TV....and why I'm bothering to argue the point that being obese is bad for you is beyond me! Sorry for stirring up your day....go back to watching Springer, Beck and the rest of your experts....

I'll read the NEJM (but hey....at least you can read)

Oh...look at that....a NEJM article that refutes the claim "that the magnitude of the association between obesity and total mortality is decreasing over time because of improvements in medical care", when it is actually going up.

But don't worry, because your savior points out that it is only a 1% increase in the mortality rate, so there is nothing to worry about! Now there is creativity with "spinning" the numbers! The probability of dying DOUBLES! But never mind that....it is still only one percent! You can have the moron....

I wouldn't bother wasting my time replying if I didn't think he was flirting the edge or morality with his generalizations. OF COURSE he often says...being over weight it bad.....(says it a lot), that covers his ass nicely! Maybe his laywers make him say that?

[KittenAB]

You don't need to listen to his show to find out EXACTLY what he says....ever heard of Google?

You have removed all doubt for sure about your ability to reason. You are continuing to argue about something you've already agreed to....not sure what point you are now trying to make?

And BMI is about as scientific as you can get. It is simply two very easy to obtain metrics, with one divided by the other. That is about as crystal clear a valid metric as you can find anywhere in medicine. Now if you meant to say that the use of this valid metric in determining the overall health of the subject requires you look at the subject in a more holistic fashion, then I would agree with that rational statement. I would further agree that you can't simply just look at obesity (as calculated by BMI) and say that being obese on its own is a guarantee of health problems. But you can look at the studies and know that obesity is correlated with a host of health issues, which can kill you. The one thing I can agree with your talk show host on, is that we are far from understanding the complex interrelationships between the various systems in the human body. But to throw out all the studies that show that there IS a direct correlation between obesity and say for instance diabetes, and to generalize that and say that it is OK to be obese if you are fit, is bad medicine. And for someone to say this to a large population is in my opinion, immoral.

He sure is popular though. And that is what his show is all about...ratings. He makes money the more you listen to him. And if more people listen when he says...."Eat all you want", he makes more money. Just like that Fox "News" talk show host....he spouts the most ridiculous lies, and quotes all sorts of published data, but he still has many things flat out wrong. But I'm guess you believe everything you hear on the TV....and why I'm bothering to argue the point that being obese is bad for you is beyond me! Sorry for stirring up your day....go back to watching Springer, Beck and the rest of your experts....

I'll read the NEJM (but hey....at least you can read)

Oh...look at that....a NEJM article that refutes the claim "that the magnitude of the association between obesity and total mortality is decreasing over time because of improvements in medical care", when it is actually going up.

But don't worry, because your savior points out that it is only a 1% increase in the mortality rate, so there is nothing to worry about! Now there is creativity with "spinning" the numbers! The probability of dying DOUBLES! But never mind that....it is still only one percent! You can have the moron....

I wouldn't bother wasting my time replying if I didn't think he was flirting the edge or morality with his generalizations. OF COURSE he often says...being over weight it bad.....(says it a lot), that covers his ass nicely! Maybe his laywers make him say that?

You use Google ... and yet know so little about how they got the BMI? Wow.

[Diaper Mike 05]

Diapers4Me, how do you then decide what obesity is? Studies on obesity are done based on BMI if I am not mistaken, and BMI isn't accurate for everyone (it doesn't account for the fact some people actually are built much bigger than the average, like I am).

[Diapers4Me]

One doesn't "decide" that someone is obese, one calculates it, then using medical judgement, comes to a conclusion about the risks associated with the extra weight. If your BMI is high, your physician will also measure your waist size to ascertain if you are carrying the weight as excess fat around your waist (where the body is predisposed to store fat). These two metrics are then measured against a number of risk factors (listed below) and YOUR doctor then advises you an a course of action (which you can then chose to ignore or not).

How Body Mass Index Classifies Weight

Under 20 (19 for women) = Underweight

Between 20 and 24.99 = Normal Weight

Between 25 and 29.99 = Overweight

Between 30 and 34.99 = Obese Class 1

Between 35 and 39.99 = Obese Class 2

40 and above = Morbid Obesity

How Body Mass Index Classifies Weight-Related Health RiskBMI of < 20.00 - Risk = Moderate to Very High

20.00 to 21.99 - Risk = Low

22.00 to 24.99 - Risk = Very Low

25.00 to 29.99 - Risk = Low

30.00 to 34.99 - Risk = Moderate

35.00 to 39.99 - Risk = High

BMI of > 40.00 - Risk = Very High

What are the Weight-Related Health Dangers?

Excess body fat can cause a variety of health problems, including:

- Hypertension

- Cardiovascular Disease

- Stroke

- Dyslipidemia

- Insulin Resistance

- Adult-Onset Diabetes (Type 2)

- Sleep Apnea

- Osteoarthritis

- Gastro esophageal reflux

- Urinary stress incontinence

Drawbacks of Body Mass Index

The body mass index system has several weaknesses. First, it's weight categories are not universally accepted. Second, it takes no account of muscle-fat ratio. So it tends to overestimate health risks for muscular athletes, while underestimating the risks for older people and those who have lost muscle mass. Lastly, there is no allowance made for age or sex in the weight tables. Once you are an adult, the various categories and weight ranges apply equally to men and women.

(2) Waist Circumference

For people with a BMI of 34 or less, waist circumference provides an independent prediction of risk over and above that of body mass index. This because body fat tissue which is stored around the stomach and abdomen poses a greater health risk than body fat located in the lower half of the body. For example, some studies indicate that abdominal fat plays a role in the development of high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high blood sugar, and heart disease.

What is a Healthy Waist Circumference?Women

Waist of over 31 inches (about 80cm) indicates slight health risk.

Waist of over 35 inches (about 90cm) indicates substantially increased risk.

Men

Waist of over 37 inches (about 94cm) indicates slight health risk.

Waist of over 40 inches (about 102cm) indicates substantially increased risk.

NOTE: For a concise explanation of how ALL surplus calories (from fats, protein AND carbs) are converted to body fat and stored as adipose tissue, see How We Gain Body Fat?

(3) Other Health Risk Factors

In addition to body mass index and waist measurement, there are additional risk factors to consider when assessing your weight-related health. These other factors include:

- high blood pressure (hypertension)

- high LDL-cholesterol ("bad" cholesterol)

- low HDL-cholesterol ("good" cholesterol)

- high triglycerides

- high blood glucose (sugar)

- family history of premature heart disease

- physical inactivity

- cigarette smoking

Weight-Health Assessment

For individuals who suffer from obesity (BMI > 29.9), or those who are overweight (BMI 25-29.9) and have two or more risk factors, the guidelines recommend weight reduction. Even a minor loss of weight (eg. 10 percent of current weight) will help to reduce your risk of developing diseases associated with obesity. Patients who are overweight, who do not have a high waist measurement, and have less than 2 risk factors may need to prevent weight gain rather than lose weight.

For a proper assessment of your weight-related health, talk to your doctor. Your doctor will calculate your body mass index, waist circumference and other risk factors for heart disease. People who are overweight or obese have a greater chance of developing hypertension (elevated blood pressure), raised blood cholesterol or other blood-fat disorders, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, stroke, and certain cancers. The good news is, even a small weight loss (just 10 percent of your current weight) will help to lower your risk from these diseases.

Note About the Dangers of Weight Gain in Later Life

Weight gain as you age increases the chances of developing one or more chronic diseases. In the Nurses' Health Study and the Health Professionals Follow-up Study, middle-aged women and men who gained 11 - 22 pounds after age 20 were up to three times more likely to develop heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, and gallstones than those who gained five pounds or fewer. Those who gained more than 22 pounds had even larger risks of developing these diseases.

A Note About Body Composition

Broadly speaking, in a healthy woman of average weight, fat tissue makes up 27 percent of total body weight, muscle tissue about 35 percent and skeleton about 12 percent. In a man of average weight, the approximate percentages are 15 percent fat, 45 percent muscle, 15 percent skeleton. The remaining 25 percent or so, in both cases, is composed of skin, blood plasma, connective tissue, tendons, organs, hair and so on.

Weight of Water Content

Water accounts for about 70 percent of the total body weight of an average person. Muscle is roughly 75 percent water, 20 percent protein and 5 percent minerals and other matter. Body fat and bones are roughly 50 percent water.

Weight of Bones

The skeleton typically accounts for quite a small amount of total body weight. For instance, bone weight in a female of 160 pounds is about 19.2 pounds, while a male who weighs 200 pounds has only about 30 pounds of weight in his bones. Thus although weight does vary somewhat according to bone size or bone density, we can't really claim that our bones make us overweight!

Top Ten Reasons Why BMI Is Bogus (I love #10!):

Top 10 Reasons Why BMI Is Bogus

Bottom line, if you fail BMI and Waist measurement....talk to your Doctor, don't listen to a talk show host!

The above info comes from The US National Heart Lung and Blood Institute

[sarah_ab]

yes but a body builder, given their height and weight, would be considered obese, yet it is completely muscle and not fat.

so if we are going to say obecity is based on bmi, then we need to define our understanding of obesity as something more than just having excess body fat... because there are loads of people who work out recidulously, and according to their bmi are overweight or obese but have almost no body fat.

[KittenAB]

Diapers4Me ... thanks for obliterating your first assertion.

[Santiago]

You assume that the BMI is intended for those people - and it is not. BMI was never designed or intended to be used for body builders and certain other athletes - it really was meant to apply to the average joe, and for them, it is valid.

The body index rating is wrong. According to it, all weight lifters are obese.