Am I Intolerant ? Nearly Had A Bike Accident Yestereve...

[Eric D]

Geh!

I...just....can't...avoid...this all out...brawl..

...

Man, I feel kinda crazy in an obnoxious way. Hooray for this blood battle! A few years ago I would've picked a side and fought to the death. Why? Because one side is right and one side is wrong! Always wrong! Ah ha ha ha! But then I went a touch insane. I'm not kidding. And then, on that crazy plane of existence, you realize that Eric needed that adult diaper baby man on the street whether he wanted to see him or not. Things have to affect one another. Eric should be disgusted. The diapered man should be held in contempt. Eric's bike had to be hit. We cannot float through life utterly respected and undisturbed. We need things to grate us, get under our skin. That's how our best stories are made. So our lives dip and twist and generate meaning.

Also, this acid ROCKS!

(...that was a joke, people.)

Aehm? had a good acid trip?

Luckily (got good reflexes) I was only nearly hit by the car... I avoided it by one inch.

and that didn't get "under my skin" at all... I've had enough real "under-the-skin" experiences to fill a few lifetimes with these... though I know I'll pick up more in the following years for sure.

I just found (and still find) it to be something rather wrong.

[Baby Bethany]

I've hardly expressed a view on this one, I must be losing my touch!

Anyway, the below is just my view on this and not a personal attack on any of you. I have strong views however, so if you are easily offended skip to the next post.

Are any of us entitled to dress like a baby in public? Yes, because we are just wearing clothes and that is our right. We should not be arrested or prosecuted because we are not exposing ourselves or anything like that, we are just wearing unusual clothing! Once you start asking for someone to be arrested because their clothing causes offense, then that is the end for any alternative image. The exception should be if you wear something which can have no other purpose than to incite hatred, like a KKK tee shirt for instance.

Does everyone accept the way we dress? No, some people may be okay with it, some ignore you, some offended. That is 'their' right. If you look different to 95% of the people on the street you will get looked at, and some people will take the piss out of you. I've had my fair share of outlandish clothing through the years, mainly connected to the music I like. I've been laughed at, heard comments, refused entry to bars, asked to leave shops, and on one occasion the NF (National Front, British Neo Nazi group) tried to set fire to a piece of clothing whilst I was in it. Is it right? Nope! Is it what happens? Yes!

If you can't stand the heat, get outta the fire!

Should everyone accept the way we dress? No, Because they are entitled to their own view and if you force them to like what you like that is wrong. Also, whether you like it or not, there is a time and place for everything. Eric made the point about a funeral. If you are asked to come to a funeral wearing a Hawaiian shirt and grass skirt then fine, if everyone wears black so do you. You are a guest of the family, and the day is not about 'you' if you can't accept that, don't go. Equally, if you work for me you will wear a business suit to the office. I don't care what you wear outside of the office and if you like wearing rubber cool, but if you wear it in the work place you get fired. Go and find another job.

And if anyone is thinking 'He is so establishment' or ' It's bowing down to convention' then I say this. All of you reading this go along with the established order of things. If you live in a house, pay the water bill or taxes, or vote, or drive a car you are going along with the rest of us. So if you are only dressing different to be Anti Establishment or Anti Social or Anarchist then grow up, I've been there and done that before some of you were even born......it's old news!

From my experience the type of person that refuses to fit in with any convention is either rich (so allowing them to indulge themselves) or doesn't work for a living (so they don't have to worry about the boss or their clients) or is in a job that allows them to express themselves, i.e. an artist or hairdresser.

Which one are you?

Does dressing like a baby in public further our cause? I don't think so. For example, the gay community for many years had a stereotype image. Example, gay men either wore sailor suits or leather and handlebar moustache's, gay women all walked around in dungarees with their heads shaved. Was this true? No! Was it what the general public considered to be true? Yes! Sorry, but people who dressed like this were not furthering the gay rights cause, they were simply behaving to the stereo type image! Gay people were accepted (I should make clear that I refer to the UK here) when the rest of society realised that they were like the rest of us, i.e. the gay man is the guy who you work with and who goes for a beer with you. The gay woman is your wife's friend who lives across the street.

If you walk around dressed like a baby in the street you are just reinforcing what people think about us, rather than showing we are just like them. And that furthers nothing!

Beth

[Eric D]

Beth,

for once I can very much agree with most of your points ...

Also, whether you like it or not, there is a time and place for everything. Eric made the point about a funeral. If you are asked to come to a funeral wearing a Hawaiian shirt and grass skirt then fine, if everyone wears black so do you. You are a guest of the family, and the day is not about 'you' if you can't accept that, don't go. Equally, if you work for me you will wear a business suit to the office. I don't care what you wear outside of the office and if you like wearing rubber cool, but if you wear it in the work place you get fired. Go and find another job.

I think we can take this examples, and I believe most everyone will agree that this is what would be "right".

And now forgive me if I say that especially these days with all the child-molesters, abductions, abuses and such a quiet family neighborhood is one of the places where it would be nice if people would be a bit "moderate" about living out their "alternative lifestyles" in public. That's all. (I know it's not against the law... but that doesn't make it OK either).

and on one occasion the NF (National Front, British Neo Nazi group) tried to set fire to a piece of clothing whilst I was in it. Is it right? Nope! Is it what happens? Yes!

Being curious by nature - what was the occasion and what was the outfit that almost ended in you being burned?

And if anyone is thinking 'He is so establishment' or ' It's bowing down to convention' then I say this. All of you reading this go along with the established order of things. If you live in a house, pay the water bill or taxes, or vote, or drive a car you are going along with the rest of us. So if you are only dressing different to be Anti Establishment or Anti Social or Anarchist then grow up, I've been there and done that before some of you were even born......it's old news!

I agree - well put.

...is in a job that allows them to express themselves, i.e. an artist or hairdresser.

now - what's wrong with being a hairdresser it always boils down to hairdressers...

Gay people were accepted (I should make clear that I refer to the UK here) when the rest of society realised that they were like the rest of us, i.e. the gay man is the guy who you work with and who goes for a beer with you. The gay woman is your wife's friend who lives across the street.

If you walk around dressed like a baby in the street you are just reinforcing what people think about us, rather than showing we are just like them. And that furthers nothing!

bingo. acceptance comes from accepting others and accepting others also means not trying to be pushy in any ways towards them.

If people (general public) will one day maybe see that an AB is nothing "freaky" but the best friends husband, or your brother, your sister, maybe your grandfather, maybe your best friend - is like the rest of as all - then there will be acceptance - but it's not gained by acting like a stereotype and causing "raised eyebrows"...

Beth, well put - and thank you for your positive contribution here.

[Baby Bethany]

Beth,

Being curious by nature - what was the occasion and what was the outfit that almost ended in you being burned?

Back in 1989 I was out for an evening in a place called Croydon (just outside of London). I was into gangster rap at the time, so I was wearing a black baseball cap with PUBLIC ENEMY on it (80's rap band). We walked into a pub and realised it was full of skinheads, we obviously walked back out, but it was too late and about 10 of them chased us down the street. They caught me (my friend who was black, got away) and held me up against the wall. One of them asked if I believed in black power and then using his lighter (you know when you can make the flame really high) set fire to the peak of the cap.

I struggled and got away......they gave up the chase in the end. I always remember it, because it was the night Mike Tyson boxed Frank Bruno.

now - what's wrong with being a hairdresser it always boils down to hairdressers...

Nothing wrong with being a hairdresser mate, my wife is one. But hairdressing is a job where you can wear what ever you like and really express yourself. So is being an artist.

[Eric D]

Back in 1989 I was out for an evening in a place called Croydon (just outside of London). I was into gangster rap at the time, so I was wearing a black baseball cap with PUBLIC ENEMY on it (80's rap band). We walked into a pub and realised it was full of skinheads, we obviously walked back out, but it was too late and about 10 of them chased us down the street. They caught me (my friend who was black, got away) and held me up against the wall. One of them asked if I believed in black power and then using his lighter (you know when you can make the flame really high) set fire to the peak of the cap.

I struggled and got away......they gave up the chase in the end. I always remember it, because it was the night Mike Tyson boxed Frank Bruno.

I remember public enemy... I'm younger than you but was born in 1980...

quite a story... glad you got out "easy" - that could have gone VERY wrong (for the record, I don't like nazis, neo nazis even less, and not all skin-heads are neo nazis, but that can be confusing)....

And I will ever Remember the Februar Fight of Tyson vs. Bruno... was actually one of the first Boxing Fights I've seen on TV ... I was nine and very impressed...

the knockout in the 5th round... tough fight.

now - what's wrong with being a hairdresser it always boils down to hairdressers...

Nothing wrong with being a hairdresser mate, my wife is one. But hairdressing is a job where you can wear what ever you like and really express yourself. So is being an artist.

ahh well

[FretaBWet]

I find this discussion very interesting and I'd like to throw out another point for anyone to consider.

When you compare going to a funeral inappropriately dressed with being out on a public street dressed as an AB you are comparing apples to oranges. Consider that a funeral is not public. The family paid for the funeral to honor the deceased so if you attend you have some duty to not only respect the deceased but the family too. If you are on a public street that you pay taxes to maintain you have a right to use it dressed any way you choose. I ride a bicycle a lot where I live and have had drivers deliberately try to run me off the road, wait until they are right beside me and lay on the horn, scream obscenities out the car windows or just yell at me to get off the road. By law I not only have the right to use the roadway to ride a bike but the right of way also. I pay taxes to pay for road upkeep but there are plenty of people out there that refuse to acknowledge my right to use it also. Do I let them stop me from enjoying my bike? No Just because there are people who don't want to see an AB in public doesn't mean they don't have the right to dress as they wish. Will there be repercussions for that decision? Maybe, but just as I know someday someone my hit me with their car this person has probably decided the risk is worth it. Do drivers have the right to be pissed off that I ride my bike on the road. Yes, they have the right to their opinion and the right to voice it. Do they have the right to try to harm or intimidate me. No

Do people have the right to the opinion that the AB should not have been out in public? yes

Do they have the right to intimidate or harass him? No

One important thing I've learned from this thread is to never ask people's opinions of me in the title.

[PampersPete]

[FretaBWet]

It might be delicious with a good Merlot

Hugs,

Freta

[Eric D]

Pete, for all that it's worth, and for all that we disagree - that one was amazing....

[Guest]

I want to ask those amongst you who feel it's prefectly all right to go out in their AB Attire, LG Outfits, ... into a quiet family neighborhood something:

Imagine a funeral:

Would you go dressed up (AB Attire, LG Outfits, ...) to a friends funeral - well knowing that there might be persons attending not knowing you, and quite possibly being reasonably offended by your appearance at their beloved ones funeral???

Would you not find it more appropriate to "conform" to the "agreeable attire" for that occasion?

If not, well I'm sorry but it would be a show of disrespect and putting your ego in front of other peoples feelings in a tragic moment of their life.

I know this is an example - but it serves its purpose.

if you're willing to be discrete at such occasions, than why not realize that there are other places where a more discrete behavior might be quite more appropriate and appreciated?

think about this for a moment...

PS: I had directed this question before at heidilynn, but she had not chosen to reply so far, but I think the question summes it all up nicely...

If I died, and had friends I knew as ABs all the time, it's highly doubtful the people at my funeral wouldn't know of them.

I'd hope they'd come in whatever form they felt most connected to me.

For example...

If my priestess died, I'd put on a very religous outfit for her funeral. That was my connection to her, and how I knew her.

If my best friend died, I'd probably have a nicer version of the clothes I always wear, as she knew all of me (and I'm usually in black already anyway).

In any case, I'd still have my wolf with me. I'd certainly need him in such a situation, and the people who know me know that about me already.

But the difference is...

A funeral isn't your every day life. Or at least, I hope it's not. If you're going to funerals on a regular basis, I couldn't possibly expect you to stay sane!

I wouldn't change who I am to go to a funeral. I just bring my formal self, instead of my casual self.

I happen to be a mix of adult and child, so for me, formal self happens to be more adult looking.

Instead of Hello Kitty earrings, I'd have pentacles because I happen to be rather religious.

I have no idea what would make sense to an all out AB at a funeral. Maybe a loligoth dress? That can be childish yet formal.

I don't even know how I'd dress an ACTUAL baby for a funeral, now that I think about it.

Damn it, I lost track of where I was going with this post. When it comes back to me, I'll post again.

[Eric D]

I find this discussion very interesting and I'd like to throw out another point for anyone to consider.

When you compare going to a funeral inappropriately dressed with being out on a public street dressed as an AB you are comparing apples to oranges. Consider that a funeral is not public. The family paid for the funeral to honor the deceased so if you attend you have some duty to not only respect the deceased but the family too. If you are on a public street that you pay taxes to maintain you have a right to use it dressed any way you choose. I ride a bicycle a lot where I live and have had drivers deliberately try to run me off the road, wait until they are right beside me and lay on the horn, scream obscenities out the car windows or just yell at me to get off the road. By law I not only have the right to use the roadway to ride a bike but the right of way also. I pay taxes to pay for road upkeep but there are plenty of people out there that refuse to acknowledge my right to use it also. Do I let them stop me from enjoying my bike? No Just because there are people who don't want to see an AB in public doesn't mean they don't have the right to dress as they wish. Will there be repercussions for that decision? Maybe, but just as I know someday someone my hit me with their car this person has probably decided the risk is worth it. Do drivers have the right to be pissed off that I ride my bike on the road. Yes, they have the right to their opinion and the right to voice it. Do they have the right to try to harm or intimidate me. No

Do people have the right to the opinion that the AB should not have been out in public? yes

Do they have the right to intimidate or harass him? No

One important thing I've learned from this thread is to never ask people's opinions of me in the title.

Freta,

I've said what I had to say... I stand by what I say.

Sure a funeral is different from the 'hood I was talking about - I took it as a principle, an example - to form an idea, to promote understanding.

I respect that some see it different....

but right now, I think pete has it nailed down - we're beating a dead horse.

As much as I love to argue, and as much as I love to listen to different opinions - it now is revolving around two different point of views, and two different sides which, to say so are quite apart. and unlikely it is, that we will find a working, just, general consensus on what is right, slightly ok, not ok, and very much over the edge.

so let us stop torturing a dead horse.

[Baby Bethany]

That's funny!

[Eric D]

But the difference is...

A funeral isn't your every day life. Or at least, I hope it's not. If you're going to funerals on a regular basis, I couldn't possibly expect you to stay sane!

I wouldn't change who I am to go to a funeral. I just bring my formal self, instead of my casual self.

I don't want to beat the horse to make it look even more dead

but as a constructive post-dead-horse input:

DW, this is what I tried to tell you (and some others) - only because you decide to go the funeral in a more formal attire, it will not change WHO YOU ARE... and that is the important thing... so being appropriate when the time or place asks for it isn't changing who you are. it doesn't make you a different person.

And with this thread here, I have come to the conclusion, that we (not only you and me) have a very different perception of as to WHERE IS appropriate and WHERE IS NOT...

I draw my line at the mentioned family 'hood... you might not - and we might argue about that for the next 100days without ever reaching a good conclusion.

and one thing about funerals... having spent five years of my life in the military, on active duty in two different crisis areas... and the sad fact that most of my relatives no longer are... and that I have lost a good number of close friends to accidents, drugs, idiotic-stunts and cancer ...

well to sum it up, I've been to more funerals than I ever would have wished to... but that's life. Everyone will die one day... even more important it is, to use our time here wisely.

[tenderheart]

Wow, this one got a lot of replys fast. Anyway, for what it's worth I enjoy role playing while wearing from time to time. But for me it really is a personal and private thing and I would never go out in public dressed in that manner. To do so is extremely disrespectful and is asking to cause problems. But I wouldn't see the original poster's reaction as intolerant, just the reaction that most people would have to such a display.

[PampersPete]

Pete, for all that it's worth, and for all that we disagree - that one was amazing....

Thanks. Just so you know,I don't hate anyone on these boards for anything they post. I'm just trying to bring some sanity to this crazy world. Sometimes I'm right. Sometimes I'm wrong. And just because I don't agree with you on this particular topic doesn't mean I won't agree with you on others.

[lil_baby_wet_n_squishy]

This post sure got off track from the original post. I'm a male ab myself, but those 40 -50 year old single guys that are into this stuff just creep me out and I'm sure they do most of you. You know the ones I'm talking about, those 50 year old hngs that try to hit on the 20 year old girls in the chatrooms that most likely still live in there parents basement. The site of them makes you want to run away whether you saw them walking down the street in ab clothing or, walking along the beach wearing a spedo. When you see ab on tv (csi, etc) you seem to see a fat old guy with no life in a diaper and it gives the rest of us a bad rap. Someone should really tell these people to get off the asses and go have a life as if they haven't found that perfect ab life with a mommy or daddy to take care of them by 50, they probably never will.

[Baby Bethany]

This post sure got off track from the original post. I'm a male ab myself, but those 40 -50 year old single guys that are into this stuff just creep me out and I'm sure they do most of you. You know the ones I'm talking about, those 50 year old hngs that try to hit on the 20 year old girls in the chatrooms that most likely still live in there parents basement. The site of them makes you want to run away whether you saw them walking down the street in ab clothing or, walking along the beach wearing a spedo. When you see ab on tv (csi, etc) you seem to see a fat old guy with no life in a diaper and it gives the rest of us a bad rap. Someone should really tell these people to get off the asses and go have a life as if they haven't found that perfect ab life with a mommy or daddy to take care of them by 50, they probably never will.

I know where you are coming from, but I don't know how you can tell if they are alone and hitting on a 20 year old, or married with kids just by the way they look. Don't forget, you will be a fat old 50 year old one day......or did you think you won't be a AB then?

Beth

[diapermommie]

I'm not going to touch most of this, cuz most of it has been covered and I just don't have that much time! I just want to know where the "decency" line falls in how people dress. Little abnormal, sure. I'd probably take a double and triple take too. Call it disgusting probably not. People who load soda into the machines at work stand with their sweaty, hairy buttcracks hanging out. Personally I find that gross. Boys in baggy pants so their underwear are hanging out, gross. Worse yet, over weight women who wear thongs that are hanging out of their pants...gross. Plenty of people dress in ways I don't enjoy looking at. Heck I hate my fiance's socks! But, as long as they aren't breaking decency laws, I can't say anything. So, I might look twice, and then go about my own way.

I have kids too. There are far far more important things to worry about having kids nowadays than wondering what seeing someone dressed strangely affect them. They aren't going to turn AB or be traumatized by seeing an AB any more than they would be seeing a gay person, a cross dresser, a goth with more chains on his pants than Fleet Farm keeps in stock, and so on. They react based on how I react, and if they have questions, I answer them simply. Too many real things in this world to be disgusted by than what some random person chooses to wear, for god knows what reason.

[Baby Bethany]

I'm not going to touch most of this, cuz most of it has been covered and I just don't have that much time! I just want to know where the "decency" line falls in how people dress. Little abnormal, sure. I'd probably take a double and triple take too. Call it disgusting probably not. People who load soda into the machines at work stand with their sweaty, hairy buttcracks hanging out. Personally I find that gross. Boys in baggy pants so their underwear are hanging out, gross. Worse yet, over weight women who wear thongs that are hanging out of their pants...gross. Plenty of people dress in ways I don't enjoy looking at. Heck I hate my fiance's socks! But, as long as they aren't breaking decency laws, I can't say anything. So, I might look twice, and then go about my own way.

I have kids too. There are far far more important things to worry about having kids nowadays than wondering what seeing someone dressed strangely affect them. They aren't going to turn AB or be traumatized by seeing an AB any more than they would be seeing a gay person, a cross dresser, a goth with more chains on his pants than Fleet Farm keeps in stock, and so on. They react based on how I react, and if they have questions, I answer them simply. Too many real things in this world to be disgusted by than what some random person chooses to wear, for god knows what reason.

Tell your fiance to change his socks girl, take him to the GAP or something!

Beth

[Guest]

I'm not going to touch most of this, cuz most of it has been covered and I just don't have that much time! I just want to know where the "decency" line falls in how people dress. Little abnormal, sure. I'd probably take a double and triple take too. Call it disgusting probably not. People who load soda into the machines at work stand with their sweaty, hairy buttcracks hanging out. Personally I find that gross. Boys in baggy pants so their underwear are hanging out, gross. Worse yet, over weight women who wear thongs that are hanging out of their pants...gross. Plenty of people dress in ways I don't enjoy looking at. Heck I hate my fiance's socks! But, as long as they aren't breaking decency laws, I can't say anything. So, I might look twice, and then go about my own way.

I have kids too. There are far far more important things to worry about having kids nowadays than wondering what seeing someone dressed strangely affect them. They aren't going to turn AB or be traumatized by seeing an AB any more than they would be seeing a gay person, a cross dresser, a goth with more chains on his pants than Fleet Farm keeps in stock, and so on. They react based on how I react, and if they have questions, I answer them simply. Too many real things in this world to be disgusted by than what some random person chooses to wear, for god knows what reason.

That's more or less the point I was trying to get across.

[FretaBWet]

Maybe we just need rules for who can dress as an AB in public? We could have rule 1 where you can't dress that way unless you're under a certain age, like 25 or so. We could also have rule # 2 where only good looking men can go out dressed that way. Then we could have rule # 3 that any female of any age is encouraged to be out in public that way as long as they are hot. If we did this think of all the good press we'd get! Wouldn't it be such a wonderful world if we could all just agree to follow the rules.

Hugs,

Freta

[Eric D]

here we go again...

[Baby Bethany]

Maybe we just need rules for who can dress as an AB in public? We could have rule 1 where you can't dress that way unless you're under a certain age, like 25 or so. We could also have rule # 2 where only good looking men can go out dressed that way. Then we could have rule # 3 that any female of any age is encouraged to be out in public that way as long as they are hot. If we did this think of all the good press we'd get! Wouldn't it be such a wonderful world if we could all just agree to follow the rules.

Hugs,

Freta

Tut, Tut, sarcasm. Make sure Lil baby doesn't read that, he will have you arrested for being over 40 and wearing a diaper!

Beth

[Saschadzg]

They aren't going to turn AB or be traumatized by seeing an AB any more than they would be seeing a gay person, a cross dresser, a goth with more chains on his pants than Fleet Farm keeps in stock, and so on. They react based on how I react, and if they have questions, I answer them simply.

Thats right. You should try to teach diversity to your children.

Kvetinka

[lil_baby_wet_n_squishy]

Tut, Tut, sarcasm. Make sure Lil baby doesn't read that, he will have you arrested for being over 40 and wearing a diaper!

Beth

LOL. There is something to be said for common decency. "No shirt, no shoes, no service" There is a reason why people aren't allowed to go around nude in public. Some things should stay in the home, and not be shown in public. It's about decency, respect, and common sense. Something this person he saw clearly didn't have.