Colorado Iceman

I wrote them a while ago reporting this issue. I had also asked them about when they will be producing an extra-large diaper. They wrote be back about the extra-larges (don't recall what they said) but they neglected to respond about this splitting issue which was far more important. This product is so poorly made it has to be used with another diaper over them to catch the stuff that falls out. The first bag I got, about 1/3 of them were bad. The second bag. no splits yet but I have not been using these as often. I did suggest to Bambinos about switching back to the same plastic used when they first produced the original Bambinos - plastic which was thicker, stronger and more stretchy. I do hope they are listening. They DO hold a lot, but when you pull them on and feel a breeze right away, one does not feel comfident wearing them... Could be a real deal breaker!

Once again, we do not have all the facts. If I was at the airport and they just asked for me to change into a clean diaper before they continue to check me, I would not have a problem doing so because who wants to mess around with a wet or messed diaper? It did not sound like they intended for granny to fly undiapered but it sure sounds like the daughter did not plan ahead. That's my take on it. Yeah, some TSA people are like some cops. Eventually you run into one who is on a power trip. But the rest of them, dare I say, the majority of them are fine with you as long as you do as asked. Airports can sort of be thought of like private property. Places like Disney look through your bags (but do not pat you down...) When you agree to fly, you agree to their terms and give up some civil liberties. Sorry. It's for everyone's protection. However, saying that, it's true they have not yet caught one person leaving from an American city with plans to blow up a plane. Does it mean it's working? Perhaps. But I am also a strong believer in profiling because to date, it seems the bad people all have ties to the Muslim faith. I'd watch them much more closely than some little old lady. But what if these bad guys hid something on grandma's person just to slip it through? After all, these same people right now have taken to asking young girls to carry bombs for them in Afghanistan to blow up policemen. Luckily my local airport has been good to me. It's rather small and the people are nice. I have gotten patted down before and I am sure they got an idea I was "protected" but they had no problems with me. After all, a look of my flight showed me flying for 12 hours all the way across the US and up to Alaska. I do have to say Atlanta was the worse for attitude but I bet that's because there are so many people going through there. I have not been to any of the New England states since 9/11 so I can not comment on how bad their attitudes can be. This coming Christmas I will once again have to take to the air and will most likely need protection on the flight. Heck, I'd be lucky to get to my final destination with the route they laid out. But unlike the people in this story, I'll have an extra or two on my carry on (and change between planes.) In fact with the extra $50 for a bag they are asking, I will try to put everything in a carry on and buy extra diapers once I get to the "big city." Yeah, it means some substandard quality diapers for a few nights. But that's due to the fat cats who operate these cattle cars of the air and their bottom line. But then again, I'll have to triple them up (probably will be Attends) and I am sure I can get my wife to help me.

Complain. Point out how long you used them. Tell them there are other vendors and products out there of comparable price yet superior quality. And those people are happy to get your money if Paper Pak does not.

Well. You DID ask. I would take and average all the suggestions and take the most popular suggestions and start there. And now my $0.02... Go to Ebay, buy a couple of the vintage plastic diapers (like Luvs from the last 1980s) and just scale it up. The plastic, shape and thickness of the padding, scent, (lack of prints or wetness indicators) and so on would be just right. But if you have to use an existing machine, try to get the crotches wider. Adult diapers tend to be narrow and when standing, leak too well there. Padding in the wings to absorb at night. I do not think that adding even 2 times more fluff and perhaps 2 times more SAP would cost as a much as producing 2 "thinner" diapers. Maybe 1.5 to 1.75 times as much but they do not require more backsheet, frontsheets or tapes. Tapes - 2 or 3 per side. But 1 or 2 WIDE tapes would work well if positioned properly. Again, using the vintage baby diaper for dimensions would position them properly I feel. Oh - and don't try to pack them into bags too tight. The SAP goes through the plastic and leaks. I would be happy with 2 fewer diapers per pack with no leaks. Of course, the price would adjust some but shipping per unit would actually cause the per price of each diaper to go up. So in short - old style (smooth, crinkly), pure white plastic. Wider cut between legs. Cover as much of the diaper inner area with fluff (and SAP) - just STUFF it. Better, bigger, better positioned tapes. (Bigger means wider AND longer.) No landing zone required if tapes are big enough. Cottony inside. Nice scent. You know. The old Attends from the early 1990s are darn close - if they were stuffed more. Hmmmm. A starting point perhaps? Heck... There's no need to bag them - just box them in cases so when the box is opened, they can swell up. If cases need to be broken up, perhaps that can be done here in the states cheaper... Just some ideas. Hey, anything new is cool. And year after year, the options get better and better.

Even if it is only 2 litres absorbancy (trapped in the padding), that's still better than many diapers on the market as I assume that one litre absorbsion will be in the front and the other in the back half. Perhaps they might have a diaper which finally can work well for us male stomach sleepers. Or better yet - for back sleeper (males) whose urine just runs to the top of the diaper, along the sides and out onto the bed. Dry 24/7s are nice but the absorbant padding stops about halfway up the front. The padding in the front seems to absorb much more than in the back but the padding seems to be 1/3 in the front and 2/3 in the back. Oh yeah, Dry 24/7s will hold a lot but it's mostly held in the groin and the back... I guess they are more suited to females. I hate that half the padding just doesn't get used efficiently before it leaks (for me at least.) The Secure X-Plus shape is very good for me and they work well but if they could be "super-stuffed" they would be so much better for male consumers, especially in bed. (Hey, I can't control how I sleep and where certain members point as I roll around. I assume other men can also attest to this.) What I really like is having the padding continue all the way up to a NORMAL sized elastic waistband. I have taken some people's method of slitting the taping panel of an X-Plus and sliding another X-Plus (with the wings cut off and back slitted) inside the first diaper and using packing tape, closed the diaper up doubling the absorbancy which virtually eliminates leaks. But this requires 2 diapers and be somewhat messy as the SAP falls out. A diaper liner would work as well but ideally, I would want ONE diaper. Just tape it on and, well, go... And a diaper still holds more than a liner so 2 diapers is still greater than a diaper and a liner. I mention this "stuffing" because it does prove that there is more room inside a Secure X-Plus / Bambino diaper for more padding / SAP but as others have mentioned, there is a point where the padding would be too ocmpressed or the diaper too heavy when saturated. Again, I say it again, if they would just use more of the "real estate" of a Dry 24/7 in the front and wings, it would be hands down, the most absorbant and least likely to leak diaper - provided they quit with the SAP along the backsheet poking holes (but I posted on this before to sandwich the SAP inside the padding to reduce this.) Like many othere, I watch what diapers are being produced by the different companies, listen to what consumers say and then make an informed judgement. I reserve that judgement until their product reaches the market in sufficient quantity to either prove or disprove statements made here. I do hope it's closer to what we all want...

Secure X-Plus is ideal for me since I have found that the Dry 24/7s tend to bunch up some when walking any distance.

My idea for diaper improvements is a diaper which for a male does not leak when laying on his back or side. Sometimes certain parts of the male antimony does not always point downwards. Years ago diapers had padding in the wings which actually overlapped some on the sides which meant any leakage on the hip would be caught in the padding of the diaper and not the bed. Also, having a higher waistband would help matters a lot. I would also hazard the manufacturers to attempt to put the SAP between layers of cellulose fluff so that the SAP crystals do now poke little holes through the plastic back sheet. Cellulose helps with the wicking of the diaper. Personally, I would like the wetness to spread out throughout the diaper a little more which would prevent the bunching of the wet (and non-wet) parts of the diaper. I do wonder if a thicker pad would not separate as easily, which would work with the idea of an inner and outer later of fluff with SAP in the middle - it would help distribute the wetness. Basically - a pad which is taller, wider and thicker inside the diaper. It would not be as discrete as many would want but we're talking about something ideal for overnight use. Personally, I do not like cloth-like backed diapers as they tend to leak for me, the same as the pull ups - too many areas where they can leak. But to each their own. I have never had any luck with the Velcro tabs. I go to sit down and they pop loose and I go to stand up and the diaper is now sagging badly. And plain white. No colors or patterns. That would make the diaper more acceptable to people who might accidentally come across someone changing. It might be thick and look like a large baby diaper but it does not have the designs and prints all over it which would cause people to automatically "jump to conclusions..." Ideally, a Luvs Baby Pants diaper from the late 1980s scaled up to adult diaper size... Just take the baby diaper and scale up all dimensions of all components. I know it will never happen but I bet I would not wake up wet again... Just my $0.02.

Not to mention the fact that the salts in urine also reduces the SAP's ability to absorb so it can vary greatly.

True. But the plastic pants was always the problem... Too tight around the legs. And the bariatic diapers - they seem to be the same as the X-large diapers but with stretchy longer wings but they do not seem to be longer to fit up over the hips. I guess we'll have to try harder with the weight-loss then. All around it's healthier for her. Thanks!

Okay... I don't know the best way to really start this topic other than to explain the situation. I have someone I take care of who is quite large around her middle. In years past, the large attends would have fit her and they had nice elastics at that time which would hold them up. But she put on a little more weight and so I am forced to use extra-large sizes from other manufacturers (because she hated the micro-pore lining of the attends extra-large.) They have some elastic at the waist and are absorbant enough but my biggest complaint is - has anyone every looked at where a person's waist is when their hips (and butt) are wide enough to warrant the larger sized diaper? They need to be about 2 or 3" LONGER to fit right. And it seems to be a pretty common issue among all the different brands we tried (some are even shorter / smaller compared to other brands of the XL sizes.) It's like they just added wider wings to the large sizes and said "good enough." The shorter length means these do not go around the waist but around the hips and they slide down. Also being around the hips, the tapes break apart because they are being flexed as the person walks unlike the tapes that would be around their waist. It really bothered me when I had taken her out on a nice walk and her diaper slid down around her knees and we had to find a private place to "fix it." And we have tried garments over these (no one makes plastic pants quite large enough (it's always the leg holes) for us to use.) The tapes pop off and the diaper leaks - no matter what we try. So, if someone here has any clout with the manufacturers, can someone look into this issue? In the meantime, I have been trying to help this lovely lady lose some weight but due to medical reasons, it's an uphill battle. Cloth would work - except - the plastic pants issue... Anyone have any other ideas? Thanks.

Well... One critical piece of information is missing here... The baby diapers which people (who like thicker old-style diapers) is something which was produced 2 decades ago. Back then, the diapers were much thicker, used less SAP and were far wider between the legs. That's probably why they absorbed like they did, they had the necessary level of padding. The elastics were enough to keep the moisture in the diaper as much as possible but compared to today's diapers, they were woefully lacking in all these areas. They leaked. And it was a fact of life... So to expect to reproduce a baby diaper from this era in adult sizes (or even in baby sizes) and have it perform the same is impossible... So there really are two camps here. Those who want the most absorbant, leak-proof product possible and those who want a "play thing" which would be okay if it leaked a little. I'm sure it would be like when they were little and their diapers leaked on their clothes. (But as adults we know what a hassle it is to wash those clothes...) So perhaps what we need is both! A diaper inside a diaper. A regular Bambino made into the inside of a reproduced baby diaper (using the leak guards down the middle in place of the outer elastics...) I don't think it's fiscally a good plan - to expect Bambinos to be able to reproduce something like a Huggies, Pampers or (my favorite) Luvs from the mid-1980s in adult sizes because their machines are set up to produce the Secure X-Plus diapers. To change the machine to produce a completely different diaper with a very limited audience would never produce enough money to offset the price. That is unless the manufacturer can use these "huge baby diapers" as part of a more realistic Halloween costume kit. But it would be higher prices and might not sell well. But people are strange... they will sometimes go overboard and want to buy a VERY thick diaper to exaggerate the "baby-ness" of the costume. And their waddle. I think it invokes a sense of "cuteness" which attacts the opposite sex. That is unless it gets wet or dirty... I know that many (many many) years ago I one time dressed "baby-ish" for Halloween for a party and I got a LOT of attention from many people and made new friends whom either thought I was either very brave or who-knows-what? But that's more of a one-person, one-day of the year kind of thing, except New Years which could be another 10,000 units or so nationally. Definately not enough to manufacture in bulk quantities. I would not mind finding a source for the old plastic foil used in these old style baby diapers and try to reproduce them by hand - just for play. And only once in a while. But as people pointed out, the diapers for babies fit a pretty standard body shape. As adults we have all sorts of sizes and shapes. But I'll save that "complaint" for a different thread.

Well, you are right about those stupid tapes grabbing on to the wrong article of clothing if they pop off. Worthless. Have you noticed? It seems even tranquility's plastic backing is different. And I think I had problems with tapes on the last ones I bought. Could be just that I had to buy X-large. (long story...) Of course the Bambinos, Secure X-Plus all changed too. (Booo.) I also use the baby sizes as stuffers. Anything to cut my costs really. I think baby diapers "tape up" better on a baby because of the amount of the diaper which is stuck together. Basically the baby diapers and adult diapers seem to have the same square-inches of contact yet the adult diapers are 2, 3 or more times larger! And they expect these to hold? Ha! Must be they expect us to be sitting or laying around all day. Otherwise we can use pull-ups (another leaky product.) I'll have to try the baby diaper inside the adult diaper method. I guess if I remove the back of the baby diaper, being inside the adult diaper it might hold together, at least for a while. Then again, I wonder if these adult-sized cloth-back diapers are easy to take apart the front and back, leaving just the pad. Hmmmm. Say - does anyone know where one can purchase the same plastic "foil" which was used on the baby diapers the 1980's? I guess I could get cutting and hand-make some diapers. It's how they used to build the prototype diapers. I guess it would be simple to remove the fluff from other diapers and recreate a non-woven inner sheet. Well, I have a case of these cloth-like ones I bought which were advertised with pictures of a plastic diaper. So I guess I can experiment and see what I can do to get my money's worth out of them. Well... I would if I have time... Too much other work for me to do. But then again, cold nights, nothing worth watching on T.V. Guess I might expand my mind and see if Luvs Baby Pants could be reproduced 2x original size. Kind of like diaper modelling but in reverse. Hmmm. Diaper modelling... Brings all sorts of stuff to mind doesn't it.

That'd be nice. But look at how fast the other companies are abandoning plastic for the "cloth-feel" because most customers don't want the crinkly and they think the cloth diapers will magically be cooler and will let their skin breath... I know of no baby diapers that are still plastic backed. I do have to echo my own thoughts about these "cloth-backed" diapers and their ABSOLUTELY worthless tapes. Unless you have something on over these, such as a plastic-shelled diaper, they will come apart and slide on down. And most of these are thin and not absorbant. They can have lots of SAP but little fluff and the moisture just leaks on by. But I have found that a few of these inside that said disposiable makes good stuffers since they leak to the next and the plastic backed diaper holds them all up nicely. A good example is Attends. When Paperpak took that product, it was pretty good (although that micropore stuff sucked.) They changed it, thinner, cheaper plastic, cheaper tapes which popped off, and finally "cloth-like." Worthless. Sorry. Not impressed. Good to know Tranquility will, for the time being, remain plastic backed. Now if they were a little thicker, they might work better for me (they leak on me too much.)

Meaning?

Geez. As old as I am, you expect me to remember THAT? When you talk cloth, I guess it's not so much how many as how thick. So I'd say a couple inches thick all around me. But that was years ago. Also, when I was younger I had to use baby diapers since adult diapers were difficult to find. But I would improvise and using packing tape could tape the backs of 4 diapers and the front of 4 others and then tape the edges of these 2 by 2 diapers to make a double-sized diaper of 8 diapers (2 cubed.) I even tried mediums (3 cubed) or 3 by 3 by 3 for 27! But I did that only once. Wasted too many diapers doing that. But I felt like I was 6 months old wearing that! Darn I miss the plastic and thickness of those diapers... Pure white too! Just like diapers should be. Most lately, I'll wear 4 to 6 diapers at a time. Mainly for "play" but it seems like after 3 get good and soaked, the legs leak long before the 4th diaper really starts to absorb anything. Now if there was some good way to take the fluff from several diapers and assemble them all into one, with ONE back and ONE front, I'd wear that and never worry about leaks. Just haven't found a good way to do that... I think another big problem is that when too many are put on, the outer ones slide down. Of course one solution is to tape or glue the inner and outer diaper waists together. I'd like to find a good glue which would stick to these diapers and stay stuck AND be flexible. Or for someone to actually make a diaper thicker (like 3 times Molicare thickness. <VBG>) But most of the time, if I am away from the house or working on my equipment away from the restrooms, 2 seems to be ideal for me. That way when the inner one is not holding up any longer, I can remove it, pull up the other one and go on with my work. - Iceman, the old dude