Not A Dl Not A Ab

[Snow]

I don't think saying you're an AB or DL is carved in stone. Its just a fast way to say to other people what you're mostly into.

like you can say "I'm a DL but Im playing with being an AB" etc etc

its just a quick way of explaining what you like. Don't treat it like a contract.

[kootzkoo]

I'm most deffinitly a diaper lover but I do love baby things I just can't order them while I still live at home.

I do have a bottle and a pacifer and spongebob jammies though.

[abdljoey]

Hmmm. At the risk of sounding defensive, I will try one more time to explain some of what went into my thinking about the diagram and respond to Morv's thoughts in particular.

"I guess for me the big distinction between AB and DL would seem that at whatever level, an AB desires to emulate the feeling or sensation of a younger stage of life. This seems for some that it could cross with DL... and the lovely thing with any line drawn based on a state of mind, there's really no way to be absolutely certain. I guess that's where I view it." - Morv

This I can agree with.

It's ok with me if you don't accept my drawing, though I don't appreciate the reference to my thoughts on this subject as "a joke." I admit that the drawing is imperfect. I had thought about many other variations, for many months, before sharing the one I posted, and I don't feel that it communicates my thoughts perfectly. The only thing I know for sure is that the worst visualization of me or most others in our community would be two circles: one labeled AB and the other labeled DL. Again, that is what I responded to and that is what I have attempted to dispel.

I am not clearly one or the other. Even when people do put themselves "definitely" in one camp, they often have to put additional information that in fact puts them on a continuum and not so definitely in the category after all. See for example Kootzkoo's comment above.

You refer to my list of colors or descriptors which you have called categories, and write: "People that have NO connection with ab/dls fall into all of these categories." Obviously. Of course. Another way to visualize that is with overlapping circles. But so what? My purpose is to focus on the diaperwearer. That was the original question. My diagram is an attempt to visualize a description of the experience of diaperwearers.

Perhaps in some arguments your criticism of "logical fallacy" might apply. In fact I feel the diagram conveys just exactly what you suggest when you advise: "You'd be better off saying that "many individuals categorized as ab/dls" also fall into these categories,...." The reason for the "or not at all" is simply... well, the descriptors don't apply to all diaperwearers! Surely that logic is not a fallacy!

Regarding your final observation: "And the same/opposite/no sex thing should probably be tossed." I most certainly do not want to toss it although it is poorly written, in part because it incorporates two different things- a) the degree to which diaperwearers connect sexual activities/experiences with diaperwearing (I am mindful of a small number of ABs who emphatically state that their AB experience does not include sexual activity at all, while many others see diapers as sexually arousing, or even an aid to their sexual experience [fetish]), and the gay/straight continuum.

It is this last point that helps illustrate the reason for the diagram. After all, in one sense, all of the colors I put on the diaper pallet are separate issues. But the experience of some of us is not so easy to unravel. Just today, I read in another forum the post of a good friend of mine who tried to answer the question, Which came first - the realization of an interest in diapers or the realization of being gay. His answer was the developed at the same time... that they are inextricably linked. That is what I am trying to get across with the diagram. Diaperwearing may involve one simple thing... or may fold in a variety of other things.

By the way,

Thanks Rhezz, Buster, and Mo for your comments. Glad you found the diagram helpful.

[diaprbayb]

After looking back at the more simple post, I think all they are asking for is in your profile where you choose DL, AB, Mommie, Daddie, or Curious, they would like to see another choice.

[Morv]

Well things just get more complicated as discussion goes on.

Sorry if my criticism is a bit harsh. I don't think it is a joke, ha-ha funny, but I do see some problems with it, as I pointed out.

I think the Venn diagram, personally, is more fitting. It kind of goes along with the continuum, but it puts things more into a perspective that allows going in other directions. A continuum, by definition, has no true divisions that are not arbitrary. What I would venture to say is that there exists a continuum in the place where DL and AB intersect. (Maybe I'll have to go get out the gimp and make a drawing to demonstrate what I'm suggesting... ok, done. You know, working on images while you're burning DVDs is kinda slow. Sorry about the shadow circles. If I do another, it'll be better, I promise.)

And though they cross, I believe there is a very distinct difference. I believe the drive behind it -- a desire to replicate that comforting and loving sitation of being a baby/child is very different from a sexual fetish. I'm not saying that they are mutually exclusive.

Here's my suggestion: Most AB/DLs probably fall into the intersection of the diagram, on a continuum. However, there is a minority that falls to either side, and does not possess any qualities of the other. There are some out there who have absolutely no sexual interest, and just desire the comfort/feeling/experience of being a baby or wearing diapers. There are some who really have no desire for diapers as anything but sexual. Where those two cross, I believe you find most people. As has been pointed out many times, most people don't just "wear diapers," they also incorporate other baby things. Hence, the continuum is really the largest portion of the diagram.

Diagram I threw together, a bit quick... I use the term "infantilist" as a general term to mean an in interest that involves regression, a desire to be babied, comforted, and in some way replicate the feelings and sensations of being a baby or young child. This could well include someone who does not actually wear diapers.

I had to think for a while about people who "just wear diapers" because they like them as "just another type of underwear." I'm gonna venture out and say that they probably could go into the center category also. It is non sexual for them. I think what I'm throwing out here with my diagram is a way to look at more of the drive than the way it is manifested. If someone just wears diapers because they like them as an article of clothing, and it has no ties to sex, there might be a disconnected circle for that category. Freud might venture to say that desire for that article of clothing is an expression of a deeper desire to replicate that feeling from childhood. I haven't really made up my mind on that one.

Anyway, here's the diagram I'm throwing out there. In writing and thinking about this, I think that if we're trying to analyze ourselves here, it is more important to look at the drives and desires behind what we do, not the way that they manifest themselves. In some ways this is a paradigm shift from looking at what we do to why we do it.

In fact, maybe a set of diagrams, not a single diagram might be the way to look at it. I see this view as compatable with aspects that individuals may choose to incorporate -- animal/furry stuff, roleplaying, female/male, either sexual orientation, exhibitionism/privacy, BDSM/humiliation. I'll ramble more later on, most likely.

[diaprbayb]

z Z z Z z Z z Z

[kootzkoo]

this is giving me a headache

[Morv]

Close your eyes and get some rest then. Take an example from diaprbayb.

[Rhezz]

Kinda morv, but i think theres more "circles" to be added to the big picture, if u get me.

nice diagram tho

[Morv]

Part of me says a more simple approach would be more diagrams showing how smaller numbers of things are related instead of trying to make a "master diagram." which becomes confusing quickly as more items are added.

[abdljoey]

Morv, BTW, I do like your overlapping circles diagram and discussion of it.