Kif

Right, exactly! ? It's more about that inner confidence to handle it if needed, rather than taking excessive measures to prevent it. I honestly don't expect to ever need to exercise it aside from building up confidence / batting-down intrusive thoughts and social anxiety.

Thanks for sharing! I've bookmarked this, might check him out myself if it pans out. Personally am starting to work with one, and am on the fence so we'll see how this next session goes. I'm not explicitly looking for somebody to help untrain me directly, just looking for somebody kink-friendly that can help accepting and being myself unconditionally since that's what I need most right now. On that part, mine has helped fantastically, but because they have stated not believing in untraining being physically possible I will probably seek another therapist longer term. Might try Neil above, would be nice to eventually find somebody that can offer both but tbh I also know there's plenty for me to work on with self-acceptance without even touching on untraining-specific behaviors. One significant thing I have realized is that regardless of my reasons for wearing diapers (be it by choice, or not), despite my efforts to hide diapers people *are* going to judge me for it if they notice, and that I'd need to deal with it one way or another. But when I thought through it I realized either they'd be the type I'd ignore anyway (entitled trolls that force their worldview on others...) or the folks that I'd care about mutually (whose judgements would be about health/well-being and cleanliness...which I share and take reasonable actions on...so also not a concern). So...in either case, I don't need to let em' in and let it worry me and I just need to practice living that.

?Congratulations! I've seen you comment before about how you find any amount of control icky, and I'm happy to see you...Happy! ? Thanks a lot for sharing this! ? I've seen how Kali et al have talked about having "not enough continence to be practical" and knowing that plus seeing you describe how it meant to your journey is extremely helpful!

Hmm, one thing I'm wondering @jonbearab and @Enthusi, what really is 'frequent' here and what is really a 'flood' in our case? Enthusi, you mentioned an estimate of 10-20 times per day. But if we consider going every 15-30 minutes, over a 12 hour day, wouldn't that be closer to 24-48 voids per day? I personally lean towards max every 15 minutes, probably closer to every 5 minutes (my alarm repeats every 5 minutes) when I'm in the right mindspace. When not in the right mindspace, it's closer to once every 30 minutes to an hour. While I say that I flood too...I sometimes wonder if it's diminished sensation because even then it's at least once per hour and more commonly every 30 minutes. Or, a larger amount after some kind of activity (biking, walking, etc). And while it feels like a lot it feels like more when the nappy is already wet so there's more runoff vs soak-in... Anyway, point is, I'm curious if a 'flood' really is as much pee as we think it is? Maybe we perceive it as a longer void, but due to weaker flow it's not as much pee as we think it is? All I can say for-sure, for me, is that when I wake up dry but with a full bladder THAT is for-sure a flood volume-wise because my mostly-dry nappy becomes soaked.

Here ya' go! https://www.nafc.org/bhealth-blog/how-to-relax-your-pelvic-floor I'm doing these at least every morning, and most evenings (harder to remember since the end of my workday isn't as routine) Not sure if it really 'stretches' my muscles down there, but it does challenge me to try peeing while in a stressful position (child's pose with wide open legs really gets me). And it's good to have a mental check-in with sensation down there, remember how to pee haha. Plus, as I mentioned, the counting while breathing isn't a thing they mentioned but it unwittingly ended up being helpful.

Haha, thanks! Though yeah, I've considered that ? I mean, at home it's okay but having started going back to the office it would not work as well to have to change every 3 hours. Plus, it's a lot less flexible to changes of plans; e.g. a meeting runs over, or a train is delayed. For me at least, it works better to have minimum 4 hours capacity (ideally 5 to handle unexpected things). Thanks for your recommendations! ? I used to use Abena when I was across the pond, but it's not one I've considered since because they didn't fit too well on me and have been more challenging to find here. But the BetterDrys...I'm suuuuuuper tempted to go for 'em now with your recommendation and my own field-testing today. I happened to have three leftover and I field-tested them today. To my delight, I found they lasted at least 4 up to 5 hours and best of all I had zero leaks today! That alone has been a HUGE relief. Plus, while I didn't get to field-test messing I did notice the inner guards were at least twice as tall as the Senis or Tenas I had sitting around, so they would do really well at handling messies like you pointed out jonberarb. At this point the only reason I've not switched to them is that I wanted to give a supplier that sells Tena Ultimas one last-ditch try, since they have apparently double the absorbency of the Maxis yet somehow cost less. Plus, I can buy them on subscription with home delivery, and it'd be nice not to worry about the stress of reordering and pickup. But! If they're anything less than what I need then I'll probably switch over to BetterDrys for daytime. And regardless cost-wise I'll be dropping 30 diapers off of my orders once I switch to cloth at night, so there's that at least. And as oznl pointed out, things will change over time...I look forward to that!

I've started to run across this, around the same time too (3 months in). I am not sure if this will help you, but this is what I've noticed so far... I've been increasingly leaking. I took a hard look at it and figured out it was because I was peeing more. Kali touched on this too, where you might go thinner for a while after your bladder adjusts to going frequently, and then for various reasons output increases and you go thick again. I got into a habit of not noticing my bladder and I use a timer app, but I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have? I got into the habit of associating dribbling with constantly drinking water Due to flooding, my fear of leaking increased again So, I've been trying a few things: Reducing my water intake (I've needed thicker diapers still, despite this btw) to reduce the association of dribbling to that unsustainable habit Going thicker in my diapering Re-focusing on voiding on a timer PLUS refocusing on trying to pee as soon as I notice I've stopped trying to pee Really trying to focus on going, even if I feel I need to force it...Though in my case, while counting to four on a rhythmic gentle pulsing of my abs is all I need I think in part because throughout most of my untraining so far I've been doing reverse kegal exercises + stretches everyday and I count to four doing that...so there is some association there, like when standing in front of running water So far the past few days I've had some successes...But yeah, I'm keeping an eye on it too. Hopefully you find some of this helpful!

I've not focused on it exclusively, but in the beginning especially I tried several of wohermiston's files and there's a lot of similarities to your visualizations! One of his files, "peescription", is nearly identical to #2. There also was one somewhere that touched on the idea that whenever you clench it'll be weaker the next time, and next, etc. like in #4 (unfortunately I don't remember which one, and there are no scripts for his files). Finally, most of his files touch on tapping into childhood inhibitions like you touched on in #5 and #6. Personally I've used ones that focus on acceptance most regularly. But the one 'focused' one I returned to most dealt with tapping into my childhood inhibitions, I believe it was "Ericksonian Untraining #2" (the one that you're supposed to listen to in the evening).

One of the changes Kali talked about recently on their blog was about going from thick diapers to thinner ones, and then back to thick ones. I think I've gone through both of these now? I started thinner quickly got thicker to feel more secure, then had a very brief period (a week or two) where I lasted a lot longer in regular nappies and seriously contemplated going thinner...but never did, because I was a too scared to be wrong and leak. Ironically in the past week now, I've been feeling increasingly frustrated with leaking anyway despite cutting back on fluids...(I don't want dribbling to depend on pushing fluids forever) After my second leak today at work (thankfully into my liner) I'm now seriously contemplating upping consistently-soaked Seni Quatros...I used to last 4 hours easy, but now I barely scrape by on 3. I'll use boosters as a holdover, ofc, but anyone have any tips for a European? Ideally something not AB/DL printed but...tbh I'm not sure if there's much better medical-print-wise? Otherwise am I spiraling? Not thinking so tbh...I was wetting 4-5 times per week last time at this point if that's any judge (I barely hit once per week these days). Not that it'll stop me or anything, just gotta' keep going. But if there's one thing that's different, it's my mindset...compared to last time, I have many more personal things to handle and fewer means to increase nappy security (use cloth) for at least a little while more. Maybe things will pickup more in the next month, we'll see.

I've not a lot to weigh in on this, I feel I relate more to @Eido but with dysphoria added to it. Figured I'd toss in my experiences to the pool, rather than say nothing. I think I've had penetrative sex *once* in my life, with my current partner. I had one mutual m**tion session with a boyfriend before that, and I was so uncomfortable I couldn't finish and felt really grossed out. Otherwise I've found sex just uninteresting and really couldn't relate to everyone else's obsession with it...Like, I tell folks I've never been to p**nhub, and I mean it...the thought grosses me out. I think at most I've looked at is pictures of (semi-or-fully-clothed) folks in diapers...That's it. My hubby is completely understanding and very happy/satisfied with our relationship even though it's mostly cuddles etc. (my god, back massages are amaaaazing). They have even changed my nappies in the past, but since I transitioned I've found any exposure of my parts to be too dysphoric to allow them to see me naked at all. I'll be more willing to participate in things after SRS, and I've considered "role playing" with toys as Eido mentioned because I want to give that to my hubby...but even then they've assured me all is well and dandy after a decade-ish together so ?‍♀️

Yep, pretty much describes me haha -- I totally get especially from a practical point of view being ready to spend more time than necessary in them, due to environment constraints (not near a restroom, for example). Which, ofc, gets into one of the big cons for me: dealing with the attention of other people. I can be content as I want about messing, but I still feel afraid to offend people and get strange looks. So, unless I'm home alone messy diapers are changed ASAP. Though at my stage of untraining, tbh I end up holding by accident (I've enough muscular control that not-relaxing has enough resistance to induce reverse peristalsis apparently) and becoming quite uncomfortable until the urge strikes suddenly later. Maybe at some point I'll care less, or I'll care but at least feel okay with taking enough precautions to keep others safe/hygenic. (FTR, I know Nullo gets recommended a lot here but they don't carry it in Europe...Besides, I personally find watching my diet and eating as many veggies as possible helps tonnes anyway)

Thanks for adding your experience on this! Sounds like eventually it'll be no urgency at all, which sounds nice tbh. Thanks! Yeah, no desire to go back to undies at all -- and after trashing them in a suitably ironic way, I think I'll just shred them since even that was so uninteresting. I think at most I'll don some pullups during doc appointments. Otherwise, I'm quite happy to stay in diapers!

Was alone at home today; workers finished early and hubby was at work. I'd had a leak in my diaper and while I was feeling a bit afraid I let it happen...so while I was somewhat proud of going through with it anyway, I did feel a bit tired of that fear I experience when leaking. So, I decided the circumstances were a great time to destroy a few panties >:) And it was...? Surprisingly boring. I changed out of my diaper, put on one of two panties I had sitting around (from when I tried different liners for the large trip a few months back), laid down a pad on my chair and...while I had to work up to it a bit, I peed when the urge came. It got wet. The pad got wet. It felt warm, and then cold. I chucked my wet panties into the trash where they belonged. Wiped down and got another pair. This time it was habitual like when I was in a diaper. Urge came, pee left, hardly thought of it. Did that a few more times, lost track of time, and realized I should go change so I did. Chucked my diaper (forgotten on the floor) and panties into the trash, and hopped back into a fresh warm fluffy diaper. Ah well...Turns out peeing my panties was pretty boring and uneventful. At least my diaper stays warm when it's wet. I wonder if it'll change in 6 months or a year after I've lost some real control. Maybe not...if I have to pee, I'll pee whether I want to or not, and they'll get wet along with anything under them. I think I can see why folks shred their underwear. Unless you're into humiliation, they're pretty useless...diapers just work better.

I was re-reading Kali's blog and this reminded me of how they described their daytime control back in July 2016 ( approx 19 months if you go by their earliest entry): It's interesting, reading both yours and theirs--for some reason I'd have expected to have no use of the muscle at all. But in the end I guess it makes no real difference, being unable to keep it all clenched is functionally the same thing.

Something I just realized might have been hampering my effort to drink/wet consistently: glass size. I'd switched to a smaller glass last week, and hadn't thought much of it. In theory, it'd prompt me to get up more often and I'd therefore get more practice standing up and walking, and break any holds I had (peeing standing up is easier, plus there's the running water). In reality, I simply drank less to reduce the effort and consequently grew a bit subtly apprehensive about drinking in general. So, let's try drinking from a larger glass then. ?

So another week wraps up, and we enter week #8 and wrap up my second month in nappies, quickly approaching my last record doing this. The most notable stuff that happened this week revolved around my psychological (dis)comfort enduring bathroom workers and visiting the office for the first time in months. We're doing some major work on our bathroom and it's going to remain out of commission for probably the whole of month #3. We have access to a temporary bathroom, however it's a decent walk away and my bowels seem to coordinate with the arrival of workers in the morning....If it's not when I'm pouring coffee, then it increasingly likes to surface urges shortly after they arrive. So, either I have to rush through my morning routine to change/shower before they arrive or I need to deal with it while they're here. I'm getting up earlier to compensate but so far I've just lost some sleep... My hubby has assured me maaaany many many times that he smells nothing on me, even while standing in front of him in a full nappy. The only time he notices anything at all is the pattern of rushing to the bathroom, showering, and sometimes leaving behind an odor in the bathroom afterwards. So, apparently my disposable + cloth + plastic pants setup works extremely well for concealing messes even in close quarters. Also, avoiding nasty foods and having no obvious "poopy face" probably helps too; I can just let loose while walking, really. BUT despite all this in my favor I still struggle with just letting go when I need to, especially if there is anybody nearby. I think it's the noise that I worry about, partly? Also just...feeling self-conscious. Anyway, it results in both holding back pee and some constipation...and I hate those more, so I've pushed myself to get over my fears and have gotten a bit better this week about just standing up and letting it all out as soon as the urge hits but...it'll be a while. A step back, a step forward. Meh...I've got all of month #3 to practice, so that's a good thing I guess? Plus, my hubby and I are gradually becoming more comfortable about it and prodding each other with pee/poo jokes so there's that haha. Unrelated, the temporary bathroom is a bit cramped, and cramped changes suck...one tip I might that can make them suck less is to use clothespins to hold up your skirt or long shirt! It at least keeps them out of way during changes, even just wet ones, and that's nice. Anyway, I also went in to the office and found I still had some amount of fear wetting around others when standing up in a meeting. I'd been neglecting my frequent drinking and releasing habits a bit too, so combined I had trouble getting the image out of my head of pee trickling down my leg while standing and talking to a colleague. Fortunately it never happened, but unfortunately I probably won't come to the office again for a while; everything is still locked down here, my trip was more of a rare social one. I'd like to practice working through these fears, but I have a feeling it may not matter if I continue peeing in relative comfort working from home for several more months... Still, to better hammer in those drink/void habits I've purchased a discrete vibrating "potty training" watch (looks like one of those fitness trackers). It's meant to vibrate every X minutes to help children and incontinent adults remember to run to the potty, and it's kinda funny to be using it for the exact opposite. Either way, it'll be great to have considering my phone isn't always on me or Android updates and suddenly my reminder app is being shut down as a background process to save battery life...again. Not sure if it'll matter long-run, but I do worry sometimes that my bladder is bigger or less sensitive than it should be? Unless I'm drinking constantly, I don't really feel the urge to go anymore...And while I've woken up wet twice this week and this morning, I often still have a decent amount in my bladder when I wake up (even on the wet mornings). I suspect that part of it is myself habitually holding if I notice I'm "too wet" as this is a problem for me during the day as well...And while I plan to switch to cloth at night after the bathroom work is done and we have a private washer/drier installed, I really cannot do it until then so I'll need to upgrade my nighttime nappies and/or include more boosters. I mean, I'd practice leaking too but again need to wait on the washer/drier situation. Night-wetting, by the way, so far seems to come in clusters. I'll have a few nights with maybe a day dry between them, and then a dry spell the rest of the week. Not quite sure why that is, but I suspect it has at least part to do with my mood since that also tends to cluster a bit too...It all tends to happen on the weekend or early part of the week after I've had a chance to unwind and a few uninterrupted stress-free days. It would make sense my mood has so much more impact in that sense if I consider that I wore cloth in my last stint and so far not in this one; unlike last stint, I do have some fear of leaking at night and there's only so much I've been able to do to boost my disposables capacity at night. I should probably suck it up and buy some BetterDrys or something, though even those need me to add boosters at night since I wet so heavily. I also might consider using my vibrating watch to wake up in the middle of the night for a while until my subconscious decides it's easier to just go consistently than lose sleep, we'll see about that...Could be a bit extreme for me, after all I don't need the extra stress I'm already getting from hammer-drills during the day.

Crimony, yeah ? Like, we have people working on the bathroom at the moment and I swear they don't take potty breaks except at lunch! I had some urgency issues going into this, but I remember at least being able to "withstand" long trips with 3-4 hours between rest stops. Though wetting aside, I couldn't imagine going on any kind of day trip that includes meals without having some changes on hand for messes, even if I've cleaned out beforehand. Even in diapers I couldn't imagine those 8-10 hour diapers lasting me that long.

I can second or third this! Compression pants are excellent for slimming your figure; I've used them a few times with dresses or skirts when bare-legged and biking somewhere, and they're great for making things fit under jeans discretely. But, I will caution that if you have a varicocele like me that you should limit it to only when necessary. I wore them continuously when I started, and after a week it brought back loooots of pain. I tried ice and it didn't help; it wasn't until I stopped using the compression pants that the pain went down. Looking forward to nuking that stuff after SRS, haha! ?

Fantasic, Eddie! The rest will eventually come, and hopefully soon! ? I definitely fall more towards Enthusi's solution of having a mix of diapers -- two diapers a day can be done, but I can't imagine it being possible with FI. Though...I will say that while having a mix is suuuper useful for economy with FI, I've lately found in-practice that if I switch to a thinner diaper (anticipating a BM) a LOT of the time it just doesn't happen anyway and because it's thinner than normal I often forget an end up leaking into my cloth liner. So, I have kinda just picked a middle-of-the-road solution (4-hour-ish diapers for me, so Seni Quatros) supplemented with cloth covers to contain smell and catch unexpected leaks. If I mess a diaper a few hours in, it's no big loss. And at night, I can just add a booster and it works fine for the next morning. I still use the "mix", but it's because I have a stash of odds-and-ends I'm trying to clean out.

Haha, thanks! ? Yeah, I work a lot on letting go no matter where I am or what I'm doing...during changes, while leaving the shower, etc. I figure that by doing this I'll get as close an approximation as possible to what incontinence feels like emotionally. Still, it's another thing entirely emotionally to actually realize I'm losing control! It's easy to read about it and prepare but it doesn't really set in until these accidents occur...I'm happy to confirm where my emotions sit and that I could laugh about it afterwards! That said, I think Sarah's post on why she retrained and then returned really hit home with me; I relate a LOT to fears of other people knowing I wear diapers and I work at it wherever I can (both to minimize risk, but also gradually loosen up how much I concern myself with it). But, I also realized I still have lots of fears about this with SRS and it made me realize that while I can work through my fears of people I cannot really do anything about the SRS stuff until it happens. Like, I could be wrong and maybe I have a rare skin issue that makes healing take longer and nappies could make it worse (this is a legit thing, increases risk of dehiscence [wound separation, do NOT google])? Or, I could develop FI unexpectedly early and need to have a colostomy to fully heal from surgery? (oorrrr ofc that could happen anyway due to an unpredicted anal/neo-vaginal fistula, even if I retain continence...thank f**k it is temporary/6-months in either case) Let alone what I'd tell my doctor and how I'd feel about that...But hey, for the record, don't lookup SRS horror stories unless you're me and trying to learn as much as possible about what to be on alert for. Also hey, me, stop doing that it's bad for your emotional health ? Anyway, I have no plans to stop completely, but it definitely makes me think that for my own emotional safety I should maybe not push myself so hard sometimes. Like, do I feel the need to poop while people are around? Before, I might have pushed myself (hah) to go right then and there to conquer that fear...but maybe I need to take it easy and instead make my way outside and do it on a walk? It's all so psychological, and I think it'll pay off to be kind to myself when facing these kinds of things ?

The funniest and most-telling thing happened last night! ? So, my hubby and I were in the bedroom and I'd started changing. He was in bed waiting for me to finish, and I was on the floor in the other corner changing. We have a pseudo-wood laminate floor all over the apartment, so I'm not worried about changing in there. Out of NOWHERE he rips a loud one. Like, I mean real diesel-engine, gutteral, rip-roarin' flatulator. It went for what felt like minutes. And it sent me REELING with laughter! Him too! ? But remember I had said I was changing my diaper at the time? Well, I had just opened it up and was laying there naked basically and it didn't occur to me to close it up once I started laughing. I finished taping up (I was laying on the fresh diaper already) and went to pickup the old one at my feet and...found it in a cold puddle. Not drops, a puddle!! ?? While laughing my ass off, apparently I'd launch-peed past my fresh diaper, past my feet, and onto the floor a few feet away! Ofc this was the one time I decided to not lay down the changing mat first! ? I felt suuuper embarassed and since I was out-of-sight of my hubby I sneakily wiped it up...and then ran over for cleaning supplies, sprayed that on a rag, and wiped it more thoroughly before tossing into my dry/wet nappy bag (used normally for wet terry liners and pants). And apologized to my hubby...he hadn't realized it had happened (and neither had I, haha), but he was understanding (and both of us thankful it wasn't onto the bedframe, and that we had laminate floors). ? I guess it shows I am losing some sense of control already...apparently if I have pee in my bladder and I don't focus on clenching while laughing it'll just come out at this point. Accidents happen, but I guess at least it's a sign of something...and possibly needing to put a towel over myself while changing haha.

Ahahahah, I was wondering what was going on! ? Yeah, all these "my journey" threads sound similar, I'll see if I can update the name of mine haha. Thanks for the well-wishes! ? Agreed, there should be zero shame using diapers; they're just specialized underwear. Still working on this mind-game myself (especially with FI), but I'm getting better every day! ? Speaking of underwear, I've finally moved mine from "storage" to "inconvenient/deep storage"; you know, the kind located in an outdoor separate storage unit. I'd been considering it for a while, and running out of space to store my cloth nappies in my bedroom cabinet was the final push I needed. Will hold onto them for transition, as a last-ditch measure in case I have to stop and revert to pads+panties again...after that, I'll wear them to test my continence and throw them away when/if I dirty them (figure that'd be more impactful than simply shredding them). Otherwise, I'll also be putting my "go bag" to the test this month haha, will be going back to the office more. I feel a bit more confident than when I first started (literally just a diaper and some wipes), versus now (in a bigger purse that also includes an additional diaper, some rash cream, a change of socks, bottoms, spare plastic pants, trash bags, and a thin changing pad). I actually store the changing pad in its own separate plastic bag because I realized play-pretending through changes that it would sit on the germy (public) bathroom floor and that if I didn't put it in its own bag then I'd be risking transferring those germs into the contents of my bag! ?

Oh wow, I didn't expect to share experiences there! Awesome, thanks! Looking forward to the next steps, haha

So last night, I realized I was being woken while peeing and not the other way around? I've been hydrating as best I can throughout the day and drinking a tall glass or two before bed, but I've not exactly had lots of bedwetting since I resumed after the big trip (only once or twice since then where I'm 100% sure I wet without waking up at all). Usually I'd be woken up by urgency, try to pee, and fall asleep I think before I started (I'm a heavy sleeper, haha)...And then not much later I'd wake up again, with even-more urgency. I have been putting focus into trying to make sure I pee before going back to sleep because I don't like holding it ofc; it hurts more at night since my bladder usually doesn't get as full as it does during the day. ? Then at some point earlier this week I started to notice I was peeing before I fell back asleep...so success, I thought? I tried paying more attention to it to see what was going on and last night I realized it had been happening the other way around! I don't always dream, so it'd feel like I just hadn't fallen asleep yet, felt urgency, and let it out -- but when I checked the time I realized it was hooours past when I went to bed and my mind had been playing tricks on me. So, it seems like what was actually happening was I was either being woken up by the sensation of being mid-pee or I was just barely waking up enough to pee and not realizing I was waking up...Weird stuff! I mean, either way though, I doooon't think it'd be a good idea to go without diapers at any point during the night for sure after this week. It seems that regardless my brain has started to move habitual day-wetting into at least half-consciousness during the night! So, I guess all the practice and psychological work seems to be paying off in some way, slowly ? Otherwise there's nothing else to really note this week besides continuing to work through emotional/psychological stuff. When I have tough days there, I end up holding more and it's related to the stuff I went through. What helps me is doing the reverse kegal stretches, self-administering EMDR to process stuff, some positive/affirming hypnosis (I mostly I use the "self-acceptance" files, and rarely venture into the "incontinence" files while awake to look for ideas), and going on walks to get some fresh air. Really looking forward to working with a kink-friendly EMDR+Hypnosis professional in some number of weeks to work through it more. Self-therapy and hypnosis etc doesn't ofc help directly with untraining physically, but every time I work through another "stuck" feeling it becomes that much easier to release freely during the day (and now night)...So I think it's more important than it's credited for. ?

These? https://boody.se/collections/womens-bodysuits/products/cami-bodysuit They don't look wide in the crotch (no more than regular briefs), do they cut into the diaper for you at all?