[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

17 hours ago, Bedwetterintraining2024 said:

@hvb22 How do you find these doctors and what exactly do you tell them when you're looking for urinary incontinence, etc? Are there certain things you need to do or say.

The most important thing? Be honest.  Embarrassingly honest.  Leave NO question what you want and why you want it. Don't fake a medical history, and don't try to use language to hide it. You want a doctor willing to do it, and not afraid to talk about it.

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

I admit, I'm kind of worried at this point - I do genuinely hope everything has gone well for them, but I'd love to know whether or not they're doing alright.

[What happens if you only get your external urinary spinchter removed?]

12 minutes ago, cathdiap said:

May I ask why you would not mind if the operation had led to ED?

A totally fair question, and one you phrased perfectly. I admit some fascination at the idea of no longer getting hard, but I didn't want to be impotent as a result of surgery. But like all operations, it was about measuring risks versus rewards. If I couldn't get hard but was incontinent, would that be, on the whole, better?

For me, the answer was simple. There would be many ways to explore my sexuality besides an erection. But I had exhausted so many other options for being incontinent. And I ended up being right - the fulfillment of incontinence in my life is better than any momentary climax. But I was lucky - I get to have both still.

[What happens if you only get your external urinary spinchter removed?]

4 hours ago, cathdiap said:

Why is it so hard to control emotions when we disagree or don’t understand each other?

This is, I think, at the root of the original question in this topic. You did an better job than I laying out why the desire to leak something out of our genitals and the desire to have perfect control of what comes out of that same place are at odds with each other, and how there may be a much more pervasive desire at play here - the absolution of guilt.

But that's not what they want to hear. And when someone tells them it, they start getting...less than coherent in response.

Both urologists who operated on me asked the same question, as they consulted me on whether or not to get the surgery, even the external sphincterotomy: "If you leaked urine but couldn't get hard or orgasm again, would you be okay?" For me, the answer was yes. I think I suspect the OP's answer here, even if it might affect how they'd get what they want.

[Is incontinence surgery part of your pursuit of happiness?]

All very good points - and all reasons I made sure to talk with a lot of people before going through with it, including multiple therapists. With any permanent decision, ensuring you're doing it the right way is important. 

I'd add only one point - if you read through that list and instead of thinking, "Yeah, that sounds terrible," you thought "Yeah, the inconveniences like that are the point," incontinence may be more tied to your happiness than you think.

[What happens if you only get your external urinary spinchter removed?]

You know what? If you want to see what me actually attacking looks like, I'm happy to oblige. I was trying very much to avoid such things, but if you need to see it to know the difference between what I said and that, far be it from me to stop you...

1 hour ago, Squeaky Bearsies said:

What do you mean "it almost did nothing"? If there was any incontinence I'd be satisfied even if it was a few drops a day.

I found it very unlikely that removing the external spinchter would do nothing....you were just unsatisfied with it because you want to dribble all the time which is fine.

It wasn't this - wow, what a surprise!  When I said "almost nothing," I wasn't exaggerating.  The only effect was that, once I started peeing, I couldn't stop it.  I had full control of when I peed, I had zero dribbling outside of that.  And in three months, even that reverted to normal.  I welcome you to actually look at the scientific literature for external urethral sphincterotomies - that's the term you're looking for, and you'll need to do more than just looking at the first two Google results to get at the data, but those rates I quote come from meta-studies of tracking the procedures over five-to-ten year time spans.  About 30% of the time, nothing happens - not even what I got.  About another 30-40% of the time, *something* happens, similar to what I had, but it goes away quickly.  And in the last 20-30%, you get an effect that usually goes away within five years.  The urinary system is excellent at repairing itself from such damage - which makes sense, given how important it is for the majority of people to not piss themselves.  It's why I discourage people from seeing it as a panacea. I did too, before I did a bunch of research and got one myself.  And the person least surprised by my lack of results was the urologist who did the procedure on me.

1 hour ago, Squeaky Bearsies said:

I feel like you think I'm attacking you on your decision to get your prostate removed. Im totally respectful to others choices but that is not what I want.  And I'm not a fan of black/white thinking and simpleton responses like ALL or NOTHING

It's really big deal to me and be a nightmare if it happened to me.

I know it's not what you want.  I get it.  This is, in fact, the very crux of my point.  If this is your guiding principle for seeking incontinence using surgical interventions, it's going to be a problem.  It's really that simple.  Any procedure that could cause incontinence has this as a side effect right out of the gate, *including* sphincterotomies.  If this is your hard line that can't be crossed, I'd highly recommend finding other methods that don't involve physical or surgical interventions.  Maybe options exist here, but I've yet to find any that I'd consider safe or sane.  But I'm *always* happy to be proven wrong, if you can find evidence to support it.  Not theories or google searches - evidence.

1 hour ago, Squeaky Bearsies said:

There are grey areas Bobby. So what's this snotty attitude of others wanting to preserve their sexual functions? Are you bitter because deep down you wish you had been more careful?

I could speak to this, but I'd likely swear, and I'd rather not.  Let's just say it's hilarious to me that you blame me of attacking, and not only personally attack me, but make wildly accusatory assumptions of my motivations.  I'd claim it would be a sign that you are almost certainly not in the right mental headspace to be considering such things, but unlike you, I know I don't know enough about someone I've only met on an internet forum to make such a claim.  So I'll instead say it impugns the character of your writing and makes me wonder if there is more at play here.

1 hour ago, Squeaky Bearsies said:

And in Reddy's case the only reason he thought it wasn't working because the stricture was not addressed immediately. And even he regretted going back.

Reddy's story is his to tell, and I know more than a lot of others about the details. I will only say that there is more in play with Reddy's account than the radical oversimplification that you present here.

1 hour ago, Squeaky Bearsies said:

Did you read the part in my post that I pointed out what the doctors wanted do with my mom that was unnecessary? Is that some how kooky talk for you? Do you think ALL doctors are not greedy or have ill intentions?

I did!  It's also, unfortunately, irrelevant. Are there bad doctors out there? Of course there are.  But overcorrecting so hard the other way, and assuming you can't trust anything that any doctor says because you default to the idea that they're greedy or have ill intentions, is just as unhelpful.  That's where doing research is useful - actual research, looking at the same studies that the doctor are, finding multiple sources to validate your claims, and using the knowledge others can give you to try to find a path forward.

___
 

I truly do hope you find what you're looking for.  I just suspect you're going to be in for a long, rough road on your current path.  But as I said before, I'm not going to try to dissuade you from it - not that I suspect I could anyway.  Good luck, truly.

[What happens if you only get your external urinary spinchter removed?]

@superabsorbantpolymer - That's the thing - it didn't quite end up like that either.  But I strongly suspect that's because there isn't a lot of research into "how do we purposely make continent people less continent?"

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

I'm thinking it's best I write a dedicated post summarizing it, but now that I'm nine months after my revision and almost two years after the first surgery, I wanted to just chime in again to say that I am absolutely, 100% happy with how things are for me now.  Besides retrograde ejaculation, there's been almost no effect to my sexual function, and the stricture is now to the point where I only need to cath every 2-3 weeks to keep it from closing up again.  All in all, I'd trade those in a heartbeat to be where I am now, a full-time pantswetter with no hope in hell of staying dry without another surgical intervention.

For those trying to look at "But what if you just remove part of it" as a solution, let me caution you immediately that down those roads lie madness.  If you want to hope you're the lucky 1 in 3 who first has any results from surgery, and then has those results stay for any significant length of time...then go for it.  My original external sphincterotomy did almost nothing, and focusing on just the bladder neck and external sphincter was only a partial success. It took all three to get me here, but now that I'm here...I'm thrilled.

If there are specific questions, feel free to ask away, but I'm basically happy to get to just...have incontinence be something I get to enjoy for the rest of my life as I deal with everything else.

[Volunteer surgery- Bladder neck & Sphincter removal]

I'll step in just to say this - I found *lots* of doctors willing to do what I was asking them to, with removal of the bladder neck and sphincters.  And most of them were much less than what I paid.  But finding a doctor that was licensed, had a reliable track record, and was willing to do everything as above-board as possible was very, very difficult.  It felt almost like a miracle when I did find one, especially one that knew I wanted no control whatsoever when he was done.  I still can't believe I found one.

I sincerely hope @Peelee is okay, and that, like me, he ended up just being busy with life stuff after.  I'd love to find other places to have this done, with doctors that start developing reliable track records. In the meanwhile...be careful out there, everyone.  

[What happens if you only get your external urinary spinchter removed?]

I don't know what to tell you at this point - if you're truly this obsessed over the idea of doing absolutely nothing that could, in any way, affect your sexual function in even the most marginal ways...then I'd highly advise stopping trying to make this goal happen.  I *did* have exactly what you said done first.  And it did almost nothing.  And that's not uncommon - there's about a 1 in 3 chance that only removing the external sphincter does nothing, and a 1 in 3 chance that function reverts to normal shortly thereafter anyway.  If you want to hope you're one of the lucky 1 in 3 *and* you can find a doctor to do it, then by all means, go for it. 

This will be the last reply I type to you about this, not because I want to stop the conversation, but because I sense there is really no path forward here.  You seem to have made you your mind very definitively about what you want - and that's fine!  But that also means accepting what the consequences of wanting that are.  I wish you all the best in trying to find some solution here - but I suspect there won't be a satisfying one.

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

3 hours ago, cathdiap said:

If SSRI medications have such a profound effect on a patient's mental state, how on earth can that person determine whether he or she would have made the decision to become permanently incontinent without the medications?

A good analogy is "If suddenly stopping a car while driving is so dangerous, how can anyone be trusted to drive to go up to driving speed?" The medications themselves are mostly safe, provided someone doesn't suddenly start or stop dosages of them. Is it possible that doing so does nothing? Yes, absolutely. But it's definitely a medication you wouldn't want to suddenly start and stop unless you had an expert on hand (similar to how you wouldn't want to suddenly start and stop a sports car if you weren't with an expert driver or in a controlled area.)

3 hours ago, cathdiap said:

If I were a therapist for someone on SSRIs, I would never support such a drastic operation. I would first work toward mental recovery so that the medication is no longer needed. If the desire for incontinence is still there, advise six months of continuous stent use for urinary incontinence or six months of botox use in the anal sphincter for fecal incontinence. And only then support surgery.

And welcome to the fun world of creating protocols and playbooks! This is what I've been advocating with medical professionals for several years now to try to create. The use of an SSRI doesn't factor that much into it, but the rest of your comment is rock solid and part of what my therapists did when helping me with all of this. To summarize their findings:

- I have this desire and have had it for a long, long time

- This desire isn't caused by some other issue or trauma in my life that, through treating it, might also get rid of this desire, and

- Not being able to work towards fulfilling the desire makes my mental health worse (and likewise, working to fulfill it makes it significantly better).

In working with all of them, I explained everything else I did along the way to try to become incontient, including the more dangerous things I tried.  That is partially what led to them being in support of more permanent interventions like surgery.

As an irony, it's finally getting this surgery that might lead to me finally getting off my medication. For once, I don't have a huge weight on me mentally as I try to fight through the rest of the things in my life. For me, it was life-changing in the best possible way, and has already helped me begin dealing with other things in my life more effectively.

 

 

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

On 10/23/2024 at 9:09 PM, Reddy said:

I quit taking my ssri abruptly and the entire world feels different with a different texture of thought and feeling.  I understand this from previous times I suddenly quit taking it.  I believe basically the ssri is bad and I should not take it.  My doctor says it is fine to take forever but I believe it is wrong.  However, I am able to keep living, so I take it.

I will not allow myself to be in unnecessary danger.  If needed, I take it.  I will never seek to endanger myself.  Taking the ssri is worth that.

I just want to quit it so I stopped.

I'm checking, because this is VERY important - did you just stop taking it after talking with the doctor to suddenly stop the medication, or because you decided you just wanted to suddenly stop so you did?  Going through sudden withdrawal of any SSRI/SNRI has very serious effects, none of which are particularly fun.  What may look like "the word suddenly feeling different" is just as likely to be a significant imbalance in your brain chemistry and neurotransmitters - these things need to be tapered off of to avoid some of the more severe side effects. This caution isn't coming from nowhere - having watched multiple people in my life swing on and off their medications because "they just didn't feel like they needed it anymore" or "it just felt like something I should stop" and then get into very, very serious mental crises...it's not good.  I've been on one myself for ten years, and while I definitely do plan on eventually trying to stop taking it...it sure as heck will only happen with a doctor there to help me do it.  That, too, is part of making sure I don't endanger myself.

 

Just as worrying though, @Reddy, you're swinging between thoughts about bowel incontinence with even more intensity than before.  From "It can't be all bad" to "I don't want to poop myself" to "Pooping myself shouldn't stop traveling" and so on...are you having any trouble with thoughts like this outside of just this? I've seen similar thought patterns before and...well, saying you stopped your SSRI lines up very much with what I'd expect from those patterns. I'd potentially avoid making any major life decisions currently and seek professional help if you can - and I don't say that lightly. Again, I know I risk crossing a line and breaching sensitive topics...but your safety and well-being matter to me enough to take that risk.  

 

Once you DO have that professional help...I'd absolutely talk with them about this desire before you even consider moving forward with potential incontinence.  I (and a few others who have had the bladder surgery) have had amazing outcomes, but we've also grappled hard with what things would look like after, lived as though we were that way for significant time before deciding anything, and accepted the expected results of said procedure.  I am VERY thankful for the professional help I've had in making those decisions (including a BIID researcher, funnily enough). If you can't talk now with people about what you've done and why and be honest...it's only going to get even harder as someone who's bowel incontinent.  Like i said before, I'm considering it, but even then it's only after years of having messed my diapers.  I know what goes into it - and you need to do LONG before you make that choice.

 

I advocate for people wanting to be incontinent, and even for people wanting it to be permanent.  But I also make it VERY clear that becoming incontinent WILL NOT solve other problems you might have.  If you suspect you might have those problems...please, please get help for them.  I've lost close people in my life because of similar struggles - including the dominant who introduced me to full-time diaper use to begin with.  I don't want to see anyone else have a similar fate.

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

22 hours ago, Diapered Dave said:

Wow... (I know, I'm over-doing it with the "Wow") 😂  I would have thought that they'd try to talk you out of it - you know, the whole "Do no harm" thing. So were they surprised that there was a doctor who was doing the surgery?

After the surgery, when you next saw the therapist, what was their reaction that you were now actually diaper dependent?

I see "Do No Harm" stated a lot, but the more proper way to phrase it is "Harm Reduction." Almost every medical procedure inflicts some harm on a person - scars, side effects, discomfort, etc.  The goal is for the procedure's benefits to outweigh its harms. In the opinion of many professionals I talked with, the benefits for me far outweighed the harms.

One therapist actually helped me talk through evaluating the doctor - not offering judgment one way or the other, but helping me lay out my research and reasonings for things.  It became pretty clear towards the end that it was an opportunity worth taking, though.

My current therapist is actually amazed that I finally am incontinent, after talking about it for so long. The best part is how little it comes up now, all things considered. It's something I'll mention the same way I mention work, or my friends, or family. But it also was their idea for me to look into helping others with this more actively - and honestly, I think I'd enjoy it. I wanted there to be a support system for those looking to do this, safely and sanely. Maybe that's something I should try to build for others.

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

3 minutes ago, Diapered Dave said:

Wow... That's interesting! So after seeing you for some time, and finding out "What makes you tick", they actually encouraged you to become incontinent and diaper dependent? 

Yes - in fact, multiple therapists have. It's why I flip my lid when people try to tell me that I'm "obviously seeking self-harm" or "being reckless with my safety" by doing this.  I'm going to trust the professionals over Random Internet Poster #74. 

To quote them (and the letters they've written, on their professional letterhead):
 

• "[BrownBobby] has been seeking a way to effect this control for the majority of his adult life with little success. I feel confident in my assessment that [he] is oriented toward his own self interest and of is of sound mind to make the decision to have this procedure done."
• "At this time, I fully endorse and support you in having this surgery.  My clinical opinion is that to not have this surgery would potentially put you at risk of taking alternate measures that would not be under the guidance and care of a medical doctor."
• "If you work with anyone in the future, please feel free to use me, or the other therapists who have evaluated this, to serve as reference points. Too often, when something falls outside of what might be considered normal, we pathologize it and try to "make it go away" rather than respecting the wishes of the individual."

 

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

26 minutes ago, cathdiap said:

But if I were to define complete incontinence as a condition where it is pointless to go to the toilet to pee because all the pee is already in your diaper by the time you get there, then I think that applies to you or not?

And this is what I hang onto - if anyone ELSE woke up and found out they were like this, they'd consider themselves incontinent.  If the stars align and I hold my bits closed like a toddler and I don't have to do anything else and I manage to not make a mess of it when I get there, I can use a potty.  With THAT level of qualifiers...I'm going to assume I'm incontinent.

[For the males- when going with the "Open Sphincter" approach, how do you manage the "equpment"]

17 hours ago, dlmolicares said:

I think you may be misunderstanding. Nowhere in my post was I discussing fear of leaking, because I don't fear that. Totally good with it.

It's that urination causes physical pain when the member is in the wrong position because the bladder is trying to empty but can only back up into the urethra. Happens especially when sitting, but clears up if I shuffle things a bit. Totally get what you're saying about letting go. The only thing holding me back from that is I stop when I start feeling that pain, then start going again once I've reshuffed.

Unironically, maybe it's time for a chastity cage. For many people, it's just as helpful to keep their member in the ideal diaper-wetting position as it is for preventing erections.

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

9 hours ago, Diapered Dave said:

I'm curious, does your therapist know your whole story, about the surgery and everything?

Yes - everything. They helped with sorting out that this desire wasn't tied to some other issues that ended working out, helped with managing the effects of the desire before surgery on my psyche, and even helped me figure out if I wanted surgery. Heck, they even helped in dealing with the nervousness and uncertainty before and during it.  As a general rule, I tell medical professionals as much as is helpful about this. Heck, I even have a letter from my therapists to give other medical professionals in case they ask for some documentation that this isn't some desire for self-harm or other pathology.

3 hours ago, cathdiap said:

My main insights from this topic so far...

A lot of good stuff in here, and one or two things I want to clarify.

- If I had my way and could design an actual "protocol" or "playbook" for how to support people professionally with this desire, I would include "implant a stent for 3-6 months so they can see exactly what 'no control' fully feels like." That window is short enough to get around a lot of the medical risks while still being long enough to get a good taste for how it would go.

- Realizing you're "incontient" is hard. It's almost impossible to be fully Incontinent. Even now, arguably as incontinent as humanly possible, I can still influence it. I can drink less fluids, or sit/lie down, or even clamp it off for a bit. It's hard for a brain that's spent so long trying to get a goal to deal with what success looks like and even realize it has it sometimes . I'm not joking when I say, for me, I've accomplished my biggest goal in life with this surgery, one I literally only dreamed about. How often do people get to say that?

- It's important to separate "obsessive thoughts" with "obsessive personalities." One of the most maddening things for me was KNOWING my brain was obsessively thinking about something and not being able to stop it (or the negative effects of thinking that thing was always out of reach).  For me, it's less "I need a new obsession" and more "Until my brain adjusts to NOT obsessively thinking about it, I can help it by giving it another related thought when it wants to go to where that obsessive thought used to be." Another excellent suggestion from my therapist.

Case in point: I'm still considering bowel incontinence surgery, but it's SO different considering it than the bladder incontinence surgery. This time, I don't have a brain screaming and clamoring constantly about it. I still feel a small pull, but it's the same pull I feel towards seeing a car I like, or a place I would move to. The analogy I used with my therapist was around a house I really like that I drive by every day. If I wanted to live in it the same way I felt about bladder incontinence, I'd have felt a need to study zoning laws and tax codes, get my realtor's license, check Zillow hourly, anything. Now...I check if there's a "For Sale" sign on it as I drive by, and that's enough. I cannot stress how amazing, for me, it is to have that change from "all-consuming, most primal drive" to "important part of me, alongside the other parts I value and cherish." And from a lifetime of experience, this surgery was the thing that FINALLY got me to that place. 

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

@Reddy - I'm going to say something that risks being mis-interpreted, but I think it's very important to say: I think you need to talk with someone about this - someone who can help you sort out these thoughts. Whether that's a mental health specialist or a trusted confident, it sounds like you have contradictory and incompatible thoughts fighting with each other around this, and it'll probably be more effective long-term to sort them out in conversation than forum posts.  (You're still welcome to share here, of course - this just probably won't be as quick or deep as a conversation like that would be.)

I say this because it matches a lot of my own experience around this.  I too had some tangled up lines of thought around this - that's not uncommon.  We all are usually unaware of the random contradictions or blind alleys in our thoughts.  For me, there were a lot of thoughts around not being able to function as a "respectable and moral member of society" while being incontinent.  My brazenness of wearing my diapers where others might incidentally see or my forthrightness with medical professionals didn't just magically develop - it was the result of making peace with not-useful thoughts like that "I  I can't be a good person and do this."  I suspect you might have some more too.

Case in point - I'm currently still talking with a therapist about how to process how to move forward with what used to be an all-consuming, nearly obsessive thought around being incontinent.  I now *am* incontinent, and yet my brain still hasn't fully stopped thinking about it.  However, my therapist had an excellent point - your brain isn't suddenly going to stop doing something it's spent decades getting in the habit of doing.  My brain still doesn't quite know *how* to move forward.  And that's okay!  What's been very helpful is finding what I can put in that spot where "You must be incontinent to be the way you're supposed to be!" was.  I've had a lot of luck putting "I want to help others who also want this, no matter if it's just occasional diaper-soaking or full-on incontinence." Still follows a lot of similar thought pathways while helping my brain realize there's other things it can focus on but that.  And it's been working - something that ALL of the other interventions I've tried before this surgery have failed to do.

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

Maybe this is where I differ - I was wearing 24/7 and had talked with three different therapists over a decade before going through with it. In many ways, my life didn't change all that much post surgery - just means the little I did "cheat" like going undiapered for two minutes after showering are now long gone.   I also worked with a hypnotist specifically on the idea of removing the guilt and shame I felt around this idea, instead replacing it with comfort, humiliation, and embarrassment.

(Just like the other person, formerly wetguy13579 on this forum, seems to have acclimated well. I've stayed in touch with him, and he is still quite enjoying his constant need for pull-ups thanks to his constant, relentless dribbling.)

I had a guide to "Doctor Directed Diaper Dependency" in the works years ago when I started seeking more permanent medical options - sounds like it might be worth reviving here.

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

14 hours ago, Reddy said:

I don't regret it but I dont think I should have to deal with any inconvenience, so I guess I will just do the easiest thing for me.  Change at the locker and not worry when I am minding my own business.

This line confuses me a bit, I admit - inconvenience for me is by far the most validating part of this.  It's never amazing to actually go through in the moment, but nothing quite drives home the reality of being incontinent for me as much as having to deal with something I'd never have to before.  Packing extra diapers for a trip somewhere, waking up to a leaking diaper in bed, even having to show everyone at the gym whether I'm wearing a pull-up or diaper as I get dressed in the locker room no matter how discreet I try to be.  It's just part of what this is - and it's the fact that I can't avoid it that brings me the most fulfillment.

7 hours ago, hendrik said:

In my opinion you got what you wished for. Now all you have to do is deal with it and live like an incontinent. Isnt that fun?

Case in point - for me, the answer to this question is "it isn't always fun, but it is exactly what I wished for, and I'm so glad to have it."  It's a situation I'd never wish on anyone without it being their choice, but I'm so glad it's a choice I was able to make for myself.

 

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

On 9/16/2024 at 4:51 PM, Diapered Dave said:

BrownBobby...

You've written a few times about how you're happy with you're increased level of incontinence. I'm curious about how it affects your daily life. From what Reddy has written, he's apparently a manager in an office environment. How do you deal with diapers daily?

Does your job make it easy or difficult to change your diaper when needed?

How about wet diaper disposal?

Does your work attire allow for discrete diaper wearing?

Do you wear thinner diapers during work, or do you have to risk a "diaper bulge" to get the absorbency you need during the day?

I think a lot of the people following this thread are either working towards incontinence, or hope to get there someday.  But some folks may not have considered the logistics of diapers and a work environment.

I think I haven't answered this yet, and I think it's important for everyone to realize about 24/7 diaper wearing, incontinent or no.

Being discreet with your diaper wearing does NOT mean being invisible. It's a matter of time before you're found out. So the question is more "what can you do to help make things comfortable for you and make it less obvious you're diapered?"

The only difference between my bathroom visits and everyone else's is taking a backpack with me.  It takes about the same time now to change a diaper as it does for most people to do their business, and I often have to visit fewer times overall. I dispose of wet diapers in my work trash - I don't flaunt it, but I don't hide the fact I wear diapers either.

I have thinner diapers I'll usually wear, but if I know I'm going to be busy that day and unlikely to get away, I will absolutely use a thicker diaper for that day.  By far, the most important thing to hide or show off a diaper bulge is your pants - and mine do an excellent job of keeping things contained.

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

On 8/30/2024 at 9:20 AM, cathdiap said:

What would you say to people who claim that they also want to undergo surgery to become irreversibly incontinent? When would they be able to be sure that they are making the right decision?

I wanted to give a much longer answer to this question - I've been putting a LOT of thought into this over the years.  I've had to - often it's been me educating medical and mental health professionals about this, so I've needed to come up with my own explanations and protocol proposals. With the HUGE caveat that everyone's experience will be different and I wouldn't dare suggest anything is one-size-fits-all, I'd personally propose the following guidelines to help someone have confidence they are making the right decision:

1. Are you currently living as though you were incontinent? Are you wearing diapers 24/7 and using them exclusively in the same way you would if you were incontinent? I'd suggest someone do this for at least six months to see how things go in a wide variety of situations - but the longer, the better.  (In my case, it was 10 years of diapers - I was pretty sure at that point.)
    
2. Have you tried any other methods to try to achieve your incontinence goals? There are many other ways someone can develop their incontinence - pelvic floor relaxation, some medications, hypnosis, behavioral conditioning, catheters, etc.  Many people achieve the results they want this way - plus, it's much cheaper. This also lets someone see if they truly want "full" incontinence.  Many I've worked with have found out through this process that they're happiest just wetting the bed, or wetting on command, or some other conditional incontinence that surgery couldn't provide.
    
3. Have you talked with a mental health professional about your incontinent desires? I know this one won't be universally popular, but becoming incontinent won't singlehandedly solve other problems. If there's some other trauma or mental health issue that's partially the cause for the desire for incontinence, it's important to figure that out before you make a decision. Being incontinent may be a positive change for several people, and the desire for incontinence may even make some other mental health conditions worse.  But you owe it to yourself to double-check that before making a permanent commitment like this.
    
4. Can you tell people that you are incontinent, and WANTED to be that way? Through following Steps 2 and 3, you'll hopefully had to be open and honest about your desires.  This will be critical both before and after the surgery.  It's so much easier to be honest with a urologist when you have a problem instead of trying to lie and make things up. (Trust me - it was SO much easier getting my post-surgical stricture taken care of when the urologist saw the incontinence around it as a desirable thing to keep). And that's just counting the health professionals.  Able to tell your friend, family, and co-workers why your pants are wet, or you're carrying a backpack to the bathroom, or why you need that extra suitcase for a weekend trip?  You'll need to be.
    
5. Can you afford both the procedure and the lifetime after-effects? The surgery isn't cheap, and it's not worth taking on life-affecting amounts of debt to get.  Likewise, paying for diapers and supplies isn't cheap - for me, it's somewhere around $3k a year just to pay for diapers and supplies.  The surgery requires travel expenses to get, and you'll have to pay for follow-up urology visits if anything happens (which it's likely it will at some point down the line).
    
6. Finally, are you able to accept the potential side effects and complications of the procedure? This operation, like any medical procedure, has many real risks. They can be minimized with the proper care and routine, but there's no dodging them entirely. Are you ready to never "shoot" again during sexual activity?  How about potential impotence?  Able to deal with strictures or other things requiring follow-up procedures? How about random effects (such as mine of not being able to hold back my messes for long without it hurting)? Does the possibility of all those things make you willing to trade them for your continence?

I wish anyone pursuing this the best of luck - and I have met many people who would (and have) genuinely benefitted from no longer being in control of their bladders or bowels. in an ideal world, there's a protocol and playbook for how to handle these things that any medical or mental health professional could use - maybe someday there will be.  For now, I hope these bullet points help someone think things through and decide if this route may be for them.

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

On 8/29/2024 at 8:55 AM, Diapered Dave said:

Brown Bobby....

I've found your postings regarding your incontinence very interesting... I don't know if you've mentioned it, but what's your diaper preference? Disposables only, or cloth diapers and plastic pants too?

Definitely disposable, for ease of use and sensual input. Though I do enjoy plastic pants over my diapers, disposable or cloth.  I'm not opposed to cloth, though - NOTHING beats the waddle of cloth diapers.

On 8/30/2024 at 9:20 AM, cathdiap said:

Sounds like you've adjusted pretty well to incontinent living.

Now that you're incontinent forever, do you consider yourself disabled?

Do you feel the need to stock up on diapers for longer periods of time than you used to?

Stocking up on diapers is just a good idea in general - though more than once I've come close to having to improvise. That's part of what i enjoy, though - knowing that it's not just a choice anymore.

As for the discussion around "disability," that's harder for me.  I physically cannot hold my urine, and that requires certain accommodations - though not many more than anyone else.  The hard part for me is how little focus is given to the "before" state.  Given the effects my desire to be incontinent was having on my mental health...there's an interesting argument I was more "disabled" before the surgery than after.  Case in point, I'm in one of the most chaotic times of my life right now, and normally my mind would be obsessed over becoming incontinent right now - that, or beating myself up for not being able to do it or knowing it'll never happen.  It's such a HUGE mental load removed to just...be "fixed."

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

On 8/27/2024 at 9:02 AM, cathdiap said:

It almost sounds like your bladder doesn't contract when it's full. Is that true?

With a stent I am a full-blown bedwetter. I pee with every movement, deep breath, yawn etc. But when my bladder reaches a certain volume it will contract and I suddenly pee large amounts in my diaper

I know - it was strange to me too.  But it seems related to the stricture more than anything. I can almost feel it build up there (funnily, not in my bladder - I don't really know what a "full" bladder feels like anymore), and I know I dribble a little bit even if it's holding things closed.  Just no "soaked" night diapers for me yet.  Again...until I even make the slightest movement to sit up. 

 

On 8/27/2024 at 9:02 AM, cathdiap said:

Just out of curiosity:

How many diaper leaks have you had so far?

How do you deal with morning erections when you're in a diaper?

Have you had situations where your incontinence prevented you from doing things you would have otherwise done?

I wore for ten years before this surgery, so I leaked so many times I couldn't count.  I'm just so used to leaks even more after the surgery that I don't really pay attention to any one leak.  The normalization is kind of amazing. As are the chair pads I use now.

For "pokies" in the morning, it doesn't matter if I'm hard - with enough buildup, I'm wetting. But for now, I'm able to "take care" of any situation like that in the morning - I don't have anyone saying I can't. 😛  Of course, once I go soft, if there WAS anything still in there, it comes out.

And as for events where I haven't been able to do something, they've been surprisingly rare.  Most of the more "extreme" things like ultra-long hikes are things I wouldn't have done anyway, so no hard feelings there.  The only very minor thing is needing to be more deliberate when I go swimming - mostly because no swim diaper can save me from being a leaky diaper boy. But I still do it when I want to. 

[Getting Surgery in Mexico]

1 hour ago, Little Sherri said:

Coming out to my wife and committing to a 24/7 diapered life was a huge leap for me (maybe more like a "hop" from your perspective!), but I am so glad I did it. Maybe someday, I'll get to where you are, but right now, I'm still very happy with where I am.

This is way more than a "hop" - I admire anyone who has the courage to get what they want desire even though they (incorrectly) think they shouldn't want it to begin with.  It takes bravery to do - and you did it.

 

1 hour ago, Diapered Dave said:

Great to hear from you again!

So when you catch to stretch things out, how long do you have to catch for? Days? Hours? And what size cath do you use? 

I usually cath one every 7-10 days for 24 hours or so, letting it drain into my diapers directly.  That means I have to take all sorts of precautions - ANY exposed cath like this risks a UTI - but I haven't had a problem yet with it.  As for size - this is something the surgery changed as well.  Before, I could *maybe* insert an 18fr catheter into me, depending on the day.  Now, a 24fr feels like the bare minimum to make sure I don't leak around the cath, and I often use 26fr if I think I need to especially stretch out that stricture.  It's amazing how not having those muscles helps with taking the bigger sizes.