4th Of July Better Holiday Than Halloween

[BoTox]

I believe my British friend said it best. They celebrate the same day but they usually toast something like, "Good riddance, you ungrateful, pain in the arse, tea dumping, good for nothing colony!"

[sarah_ab]

yay thank you repaid!!! YAYAYAYAYAY

i love the boom boom boom sound they make too

we live near an army base and when they do their training exercises and set off the explosives i love the sound... just like thunder.

[Skywolf]

seriously though... abuot the native americans, part of the reason this is a tradgedy is because these groups are still surviving in our country today, and still not given repsect they deserve.

No offense, but if Native Americans want respect, most of them should actually put some effort forth to get it. This is the only "tragedy" about it. I've been to a few "reservations" and even have one less than 15 miles from me. Most could give two sh*ts about anything. Most live like pigs in the housing they have, and don't do anything to better their community or the surrounding communities.

And before you start ranting at me about this, I said most, not all. I know there are some very good Native Americans who actually put forth effort, and I commend them. I just wish more would follow their lead.

And the whole "they live on reservations" thing? Yes, I know the land set apart for reservations is crappy land, but no one is making them stay there. They can move to better areas, but usually don't. They usually don't have to pay for housing on the reservation, the government gives them money, etc.

If this makes me sound like an ass, then so be it. This is all from my personal experience. If you want respect you have to earn it

-Sky

I'm more of a fan of the 4th of July than Halloween, btw

[Baby Bethany]

Guys, I hate to note this fact, but yes, even though the land did originally belong to the Native Americans and the land was usually taken from them by force, there is not a single nation in existence that can claim to be the original people that lived on that land. All the countries of mainland Europe were originally settled by Germanic tribes that were later conquered by Rome, then reconquered by the tribes, then Spain was taken by the Moors, etc. etc. etc. Britain was also originally Germanic/Roman, then was conquered by the Norman French. The closest nation that exists to a native population is probably China....the one nation that has a continuous history that dates back as far as we can record.

So yes, if you want to be bitter about it, the US was taken from the Native Americans. It was a shameful episode, but the real shameful parts of our relations with them didn't happen until the 1800's (Indian Reservations, Trail of Tears, etc.). There were several tribes that fought on both sides of the War of Independence. I celebrate the 4th as the foundation of the country that has done the single most to provide liberty into the world, and has been a beacon to the world in the last 200 years. Its as good an excuse to get together for D&D, beer, anime, and wide ranging political discussions as anything else, usually over good alcohol and cigars.

Good time for a picnic too.

Just out of curiosity, what do our brethren in England call the War of Independence in your histories? I've always wondered that.

We call it the American War of Independence.

One of the things to learn about history is that we can't spend the future apologising for the past. Yes, what you guys did to your native culture was disgusting, no better than the holocaust of WW2. But then again, both of our countries indulged in the slave trade didn't we? We Brits treated the people of India like slaves, and people from the African countries like sub humans. Should we apologise? Should the Japanese apologise for the way they treated allied prisoners during WW2? Should you apologise for wiping out 90,000 civilians with an atom bomb? Should the Germans apologise to the Jews? It goes on and on and on.

We could all spend the future apologising, or we could spend it making sure these things are never allowed to happen again.......I know what I would prefer!

Just a point on the whole 4th of July/Native American thing, on 4th of July 1776 America was still only a fraction of it's current size, so most of the native culture was still intact in the west. I believe the Spanish still owned more of the current USA than you guys did. The French also owed all of Louisiana and all of the surrounding territory, and we Brits had Oregon (If I remember correctly).

Sorry, probably didn't have to teach you about your own history, lol.

Beth

[Baby Bethany]

I believe my British friend said it best. They celebrate the same day but they usually toast something like, "Good riddance, you ungrateful, pain in the arse, tea dumping, good for nothing colony!"

Nah, we just drink our tea and toast the Queen.

All joking aside, I don't know what part of Britain your friend came from (I think he was joking with you) but we don't celebrate 4th of July in any shape or form. We just treat it like any other day.

Beth

[BoTox]

Nah, we just drink our tea and toast the Queen.

All joking aside, I don't know what part of Britain your friend came from (I think he was joking with you) but we don't celebrate 4th of July in any shape or form. We just treat it like any other day.

Beth

Oh, I'm certain it was a joke at my expense. He's pretty odd that way. The first time I heard someone talk about going out back to smoke a fag, I thought, "WOW, that's pretty bold and redneck for a Brit!"