[Veterans Administration (Va) Spinal Cord Injury Clinic]

I agree with Doug's reply. Once you have a prescription for diapers from your doc, the pharmacy will most likely NOT tell you that you have a selection of brands. From what I've been told, many of the VA pharmacy's offer Depends unless you ask if there are any other brand that are available. The Molicare Super Plus IS available from the VA but this diaper will most likely NOT be offered to you unless you request it. Once the pharmacy offers you a diaper brand that's when you want to be specific and ask for the Molicare Super Plus.

From what I've been able to put together, the VA has about 5 different companies they buy diapers from, but and they usually like to stay with those brands that are easy to provide you with. However, you can get any brand if you are willing to do an up hill battle with the VA plus have the support of your doc that your medical needs require a different type of diaper for protection. A good example of this would be the Abena XPlus diaper. There are some vets that get this diaper from the VA, but this is NOT one of the brands the VA can provide without a hassle.

If you like the Molicare Super Plus,....easy diaper to get from ANY VA pharmacy but you WILL need to ask for it.

You can get anything from the VA as long as you have a prescription for it. I save about $150 per month with the diapers the VA provide me with. There is a LOT to be said about having a VA medical benefit. Nothing is cheaper than free. However, things don't happen over night so be patient but stay the course and you'll get whatever you need as long as you have a ligitimate medical need.

[Dry Care 24/7]

I got some of these the other day, and I like the color, the look, and the feel, but I have found that after the second wetting I am getting dozens of pin prick leaks. If I am careful I can get by till the third time I wet them, but then the leaks start up again. Has anyone elese had these problems? Should I contact Dry Care 24/7 or XP Medical where I got them? I got the large size.

I've not experienced the problem you've described. Make certain you have a good fit....that might help. I've not experienced the same problem you've described, and maybe you received some diapers that were defective. Wait and see if the problem continues and if so, let Gary know at XP Medical. Do you use the medium size? If so, wht do you think about the sizing (fit)? Please read my post about sizing. I hope your pin hole leak problem resolves itself.... maybe the problem only affected a few diapers.

[Dry Care 24/7]

I've been buying my Abena XPlus from XP Medical for a while now, and a few weeks ago when I went to re-order, I noticed the write up they had on the Dry 24/7. I tried these diapers about a year and a half aog, but found the sizing and fit to be a realy issue then. I was happy I only bought a trial pack. Anyway, I purchase my usual Abrea XPlus, but I also priched a trail pack of the "new" Dry 24/7 to give them a try. Ag=fter trying the 3 Dry 24/7's I was sent, I was pleased that the company had made some changes since the like time I tried them so I went ahead an ordered a case. I still think the medium size is made too big and this causes some fitting issues. Additionally, I think the tapes are a bit to short. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying,....the tapes are very usable but they would be better it they were just a tad bit longer. If they can get the problem of sizing resolved, these diapers would most likely be the best adult diaper on the market. They still have a ways to go,...but there getting better. Maybe if they use the Abena XPlus as a model they could resolve the sizing problem they have with the medium size diaper. I can't say the large size has the same problem......I don't wear that size. Just my thoughts.

[If You Could Go Back To Not Needing Would You]

taking it to that guys extremes and what I do as an AB are like saying a grenade and a nuclear ballistic missile are the same thing....

If your in the line of fire your dead either way.

[Hospital Stay ?]

Some hospital brands aren't that bad ... and it could save you some of your own so don't discount them before at least seeing them. The hospital I went to uses the classic Attends ... not great but they made sure I could change every time I was wet so there was no real threat of leaks (I "flood" to and they knew it).

Depending on the type of surgery, bring a few "levels" of entertainment just in case. As for most of what you mentioned ... toiletries? Why? But snacks may or may not be a good idea, depends on the hospital again and the type of surgery. Just remember, if you have someone who can visit you, you can always have them bring something else.

Toiletries means comb, tooth brush, tooth paste, razor, etc.

[Hospital Stay ?]

I'm incontinent and wear for need and will be staying in the hospital for 5 days next month while the doc's work on my spine. I've got plenty of time before my visit, but I thought I should ask for some advise on what items I should take with me that will make my stay a little easier. I know the the hospital uses the cheap brand of diapers and I HATE leaks, so I'm planning to take my own. So besides taking a few good books to read, toiletries, diapers, and some snack food items, what else should take with me?

[Veterans Administration (Va) Spinal Cord Injury Clinic]

i'm not saying anything about Quality of the brand's products i'm speaking only on its ability to keep mr dry When i tried those products, i will only put down a product that i have tried and only talk of its ability to keep me dry because quality is a very gray area everyones opinion on quality is different based on numerous socio economic factors

I hate to be the one to tell you this,..... the quality of a product is NOT based on numerous socic economic factors.

[Veterans Administration (Va) Spinal Cord Injury Clinic]

well thats the difference between a DiaperLover and a Real Incontinent person You are "all show and no go" so to speak, you do not require a diaper for Bowel or bladder issues 24/7 you dont need to maintain your dignity and privacy gf a Medical Illness

to you a cheap Tranquility or Prevail would be awesome for me it would mean instead of about 6 diapers a day i would need to change say every 30 minutes if not sooner and anything that caused a delay in that would mean a new pair of pants aswell so what do i do but 60 pairs of pants so i can have 30 at work and 30 at home and 15 at the cleaners well wearing the other available ones in rotation.

Diaper Lovers I dont mind you guys around and sometimes you actually add things to posts but other times you seem like diaper Losers (for example NOW) Tranquility and Prevail are in the total opposite direction from where we wanted to go (Better Protection)

Are your trying to say that you like quality diapers? For all we know this person maybe a buyer for the VA. Now you know why the VA has low quality diapers.

[Veterans Administration (Va) Spinal Cord Injury Clinic]

If your receiving diapers from the VA that leak and are poor quality, let the pharmacist know that the product your using is not working for you as they leak. It appears that there are a LOT of ppl that never say anything to the VA about the poor quality of some diapers and think they have no options other than buying your own. Buying your own diapers is always an option and obviously you can do that anytime you want. However, for others like myself, money is very tight and if I buy my own diapers than I have to give something up in the monthly budget to allow for the expense of diapers.

Working with the VA pharmacy is not always the easiest thing to do,....been there and done that myself. However, the VA does offer a selection of different brands of diapers. Molicare Super Plus IS available no matter what region of the country your in, and is probably the highest quality diaper the VA has to offer without making a special order. If the pharmacist that your speaking with tell you Molicare is not availbale for whatever reason thay may tell you, this is NOT true! What is true is that Molicare Super Plus diapers are no shown on their computer screen of available diapers they have to offer. As such, everone should know that if a product doesn't show up on ther computer screen that means that whatever product your asking about is not available......right? WRONG!

Here how to solve the problem.....First; You MUST have a prescription from your doc to receive diapers from the VA.......Second; Let the pharmacist know that the diapers your using don't work because they leak.......Thrird; Ask the pharmacist what other brands are available.....Forth, If the pharmacist that your speaking with does NOT mention Molicare as being one of those brands available, ask about this diaper specifically. Don't be surprised if they tell you this diaper does not show up as being available. Be very nice about it, but then tell the pharmacist that your speaking with that you would like to talk to the "Outpatient Pharmacy Program Manager". The pharmacist that your speaking with will probably do everything they can in a nice way to keep you from talking with the Outpatient Pharmacy Program Manager. In a very nice way,.....be persistent that you want to speak with Outpatient Pharmaacy Program Manager. Once you able to speak with the Outpatient Pharmacy Program Manager, explain your situation. Make it very clear that the product your using leaks and aks for suggestions.........let the Outpatient Pharmacy Program Manager tell you what products are available. If you don't hear the name of Molicare as being one of those brands available, then ask about. I'm 100% certain if you speak with the Outpatient Pharmacy Program Manager you will be offered the Molicare Super Plus diaper in lieu of the brand your using now.

The VA can, and sometimes does make special purchases on a case-by-case basis. My diaper of choice is the Abena XPlus. This diaper is NOT offered by the VA, but it can be purchased by the VA as a special order. To get a special order approved by the VA for diapers,.... requires almost an act of congress. I'm not goig to say it can't be done, because some vets do receive Abean XPlus, or other products based upon need, but getting any product that is not already pre-approved by the VA is not easily done and may take several months and be an up hill battle.

Molicare Super Plus diapers are available to anyone with a prescription from a VA doc anywhere in the country. Just follow steps 1-4 as mentioned in the above. Let me know if you have any problems......been there and done that before.

[What'S Your Diagnosis?]

The cause of my incontinence is due to an injury. The injury caused never damage in my spine knwown as Cauda Equina Syndrome. So in addition to being incontinent, I have other nerve realated issues.

[Cloth Diaper Versus Disposables?]

Some ppl here wear for need (medical reasons) and the cost of disposbales can add up. There are advantages and disadvantages to both cloth and disposales. However, I like cloth for night use ans wearing when I home. To me, cloth diapers feel more comfortable compared to disposables even though wearing cloth diapers requires the use plastic pants. I don't recall any resent times when I had a leak at night when I was wearing cloth diapers and plastic pants.

Everything is relative I guess. During the day if I wear disposables, I like the Abena XPlus of any of the disposables on the market. With so many different places selling to cloth diapers and plastic pants I tend to stay with what I know works for me and that means staying with the same manufactures. Anyone that sells cloth diapers and plactic pants will always tell you that you should buy the products they sell. As such, having a forum such as this can be helpful by just asking other ppl for their recommendations before buy any of these products.

When it comes to deciding which is best,...... disposable vs. cloth, it really depends on the person and the quality of product(s) they plan to use. Quality makes a HUGH difference in both types of diapers.......Cloth and/or disposables. Example,.....if Wings were the ONLY dispoable diaper available,.......I would use cloth diapers all the time 24/7. However, in my opinion, the two biggest disadvantages of cloth diapers is the investment in cloth diapers themselves,..... plus the expense of plastic pants. Quality doesn't come cheap. I'm not 100% sold on the argument that the continued use of cloth diapers will save money compared to disposables. I kinda think (just my opinion) its too close to call. Besides,.... in addition to the cost of using cloth diapers and plastic pants,..... there is the hassle of washing diapers. If you only use cloth diapers for night use it really is pretty simple so rather than having a big hassle (LOTS of diapers to wash), you have a smaller one....fewer diapers to wash but none the less, you still have the hassle of washing diapers. I use a large 54 quart diaper pail so I only wash diapers either once a week, or whenever the diaper pail gets full......whichever comes first.

All of my disposables diapers are paid for by the Vetrans Administration, (VA) so at least I don't have that expense. If I had the expense of buying disposable diapers however, I would use cloth diapers more often in hopes of saving money. When your living on a fixed income,..... any savings is helpful.

Just my thoughts on the topic.

[Veterans Administration (Va) Spinal Cord Injury Clinic]

I get molicare super plus through the VA pharmacy. The type of incont. I have is urge with a full bladder without knowing that my bladder is full. Yes I could time void but the problem with that is that I travel a lot and the depends I was getting had caused several embarrassing situations. Like on plane or long drive times. Also when I perform my job it is at different locations. Therefore knowing were a bathroom is and being wrapped up in my repair which is usually time critical was a problem. Also during the night I would wakeup to a flooded bed. This is a problem at hotels. I used to tell the hotel that I needed bed protection. Most of the time they would not provide it or treat me as if I was a freak. So I told this to my urology nurse and she consulted with the pharmacy and they started providing me with molicare super plus diapers. My script says adult diapers use one as needed. I go through 5 to 7 diapers a day.

So if you get with your urologist and explain your situation in my experience they want to help. I hope this helps you with your situation. It is embarrassing having to wear I diaper that is bulky but it is better than the alternative.

I found out about a week ago, that Molicare Super Plus, or any of the Molicare products are available to any vet with a prescription upon request. The Molicare products don't show up as a "available" product such as Depends, Wings, Attends, and a few others, but if you ask someone that knows what thir doing, you will find out the Molicare products are also available.

[If You Could Go Back To Not Needing Would You]

Whenever I go anywhere overnight, my wife packs a diaper bag.

It would be nice to have the option to not wear.

I agree,.....I would like the option.

[Wearing Diapers For Need Is Different]

The problem is that in order to keep people in the "right area," you'd almost have to require anyone to present a note from their urologist in order to post in this particular forum. I don't think we want that.

One of the things I like about DD is that I can be who I am and nobody's going to judge me. I have a minor overactive bladder, and leak a little. I could choose to take medications, or use little pads, but the truth is I like diapers. When I try not to wear them, I get physical pain caused by depression. Call it physical, call it mental, call it whatever. I know that here I am allowed to both need and like diapers.

I understand what your saying. I maybe wrong, but I kinda think a lot of ppl that become incon and wear diapers for protection get use it after a while. It may take some time, but eventually you get to the point where wearing diapers doesn't bother you like it did in the beginning.....(at least for a lot of ppl). I'm to the point where it doesn't bother me at all. Like you said, call it physical, mental, or whatever, but I agree it does happen to those that become incon for medical reasons.

[Incontinent Question]

Depends on how much of the large intestine is left after such surgeries, sometimes there just isn't enough left to make it all the way to the sphincter.

My only experience with incontinence is with nerve damage to the spinal cord. Maybe someone else if the forum has some experience with incontinence dealing with the intestine. Not me.

[Cloth Diaper Versus Disposables?]

Given the greater absorbancy of cloth, it would probably be possible to make something discreet for minor incon. Comco does pretty well and A.C Medical sells stretch latex panties. I need to start looking myself as I am havint "that problem" that goes with the age. very minor but annoying

Like others here I also wear for need. I am active and mobile so during the day if I'm going to be out and about, I like to wear a "quality" disposable. However, for night I like Birdeye cloth the best. I don't recall having any leaks at night with good quality cloth diapers. The up front cost of buy cloth diapers is not cheap, but good quality cloth diapers do last.

[Veterans Administration (Va) Spinal Cord Injury Clinic]

I am a Vietnam vet(blue water) with 10%(hearing) and on a VA pension due to major health problems.

What I have is sarcoidosis, neurosarcoidosis. with a heart problems (heart attack and 5 way bypass)fibromyalgia and now diabetes.

I have been going to the VA since 1994 when i was out of work and had gallstones.

I like my doctors at the VA i go to as they are almost all doctors from UCLA and some of the best docs around.

With the neurosarcoidosis i have been having urinary urgency so for the last couple years i have worn depends underwear to my appointments where they may see them. But never tried to get them to supply me.yet.

For other types of appointments like eye test or pulmonary like the ones i am going to this week i will wear a diaper with stuffer. i only drive part way (60 miles) and take the metro link trains and buses about (65 miles)the rest of the way and its sometimes hard to find a restroom.

But i do know that some vets are able to get attends or other more absorbent diapers then depends because when i am around the hospitals i have seen them.

Anned,

The VA will provid you with pull-up's, or diapers for free if you have a proven medical need (incontinence). My experience has been that the VA in my area used Wings, Attends, and Depends products. If you have a medical need for for a higher quality product you can get it,..... but it will be a fight. It has taken me months to get the VA to approve the purchase of Abena XPlus and I had the support of my VA primary care doc, and Urologist and it still was not easy. Pharmacy is the one that either approves, or disapproves these type of requests. You would "think" when the doc's involved supprt the request for a certain brand of diaper because there is a medical need the ppl in the Pharmacy would approve such as request. LOL LOL These ppl live in a world of their own and don't seem to care what anyone else has to say as long as they are able to provided diapers regardless of quality. I was told yesterday that my monthly supply of Abena XPlus will arrive this Friday. So,.....it can be done, but it is a fight.

If your happy with the Depends products that's easy.......as long as you have a proven medical need. Just ask your doc to give you a prescription and the rest is easy.

[Veterans Administration (Va) Spinal Cord Injury Clinic]

Actually, service connected at 10% will qualify for disability payments. I'm under 30% right now. I will be requesting a re-eval once I go through all of the other tests for my increasing CES symptoms.

I also make decent money, and the VA does use my insurance to reclaim assets to help keep the VA running.

Getting an appointment with the Spine Clinic in my area took two months. It takes over a month for a PCP appointment, even for my service connected issues. I have a PT appointment that is over a month away, and that was with a Spine doctor requesting an urgent appointment. I will be amazed if I even get to the Spinal Injury Clinic before the end of this year. I have been trudging through the system for over a year and a half now just for current worsening spine issues. I had to go to a private hospital for multiple herniated discs that are part of my service connected status. I know of some people that are not service connected that have gotten treatment much faster that I have gotten. Where am I in the stack? Who knows, but it's obviously not a priority to the VA to get me through it. I do understand that they have too many patients and not enough doctors and staff, but the only way they will give me any priority is if I was puking up blood and dying in their ER waiting room.

Sorry if I seem bitter about the VA. Over all it sucks big time. The doctors an PA's that I have worked with have been very good. It just take way too long to get to them.

Doug,

I agree with some of what you've said, be accepted for health care in the spinal cord clinic does take time. However, once your accepted for care in the spinal cord clinic things (whatever you need) happens very fast. What use to take weeks, or months no haapen in a matter of days. From A-Z, it took me about 9 months before I was accepted into the spinal cord clinic for health care. During that time, I experienced the same waiting time for appt's as you are now. The VA does not work fast, but things will change once your accepted into the spinal cord clinic so just give it some time and remain patient.

I'm receiving health care in one of the largest VA facitlities in the country. You would think this is good due to the size but then you also need to consider the number of patients they see everyday too (including Xray, doc visits, lab work, etc), I'm sure this VA facitlity must see thousands of ppl everyday. I'm sure all VA hospitals are a little short staffed right now but everything seems to change once you've been accepted into the spinal cord clinic. From A-Z, it took me about 9 months before I was accepted into the spinal cord clinic for health care.

VA heath care is based upon "eligability". Simply stated, once your accepted into the VA system for health care (regardless of your clissification category) you will receive whatever health care you need. The difference in the categories is the co-pay. My spinal cord injury was NOT service connect, and I am NOT retired military and I'm receiving the same level of health care as those who are retired military, or have service connected injuries. The difference here is that I don't receive any type of VA disability income. Almost any vet with a honorable discharge can qualify for VA health care. This is one of those benefits that comes with military service and honorable discharge.....hence eligability.

[Wearing Diapers For Need Is Different]

I think that johnstone0822 is being selfish and arrogant. Yes, there are people who have no control over their bladder and/or bowels, so therefore, their NEED is visible. There is another need which johnstone0822 is stating does not exist. Just because you can't physically see it, doesn't mean that it is not there. A lot of members here, and people worldwide have a need to wear diapers for the physical feelings etc. That is a TRUE requirement, which is as real as the need to breath etc. As an example, it is humanly possible to not eat for up to 7-10 days. Does that mean that those people should NOT eat ever? A trained person can hold their breath for up to 2 minutes. Does that mean that person does not NEED to breath?

There is two parts to our lives, the physical, which we can see and encounter on a day to day basis, and the mental, which we feel and control out emotions. Which is more important? Can we really live without the two in perfect balance?

I don't thinking I'm being selfish, or arrogant. I do agree there should be two different forms here. The fact that someone wears for mental need is still a need as far as I'm concerned. However, I differentiate between those that wear for a medical reason such as mental or physical, compared with those the wear for fantasy fun. I would agree there could be an argument made that wear for fantasy is mental and therefore there is no difference between the two types of need (physical, or mental). Maybe we should have two categories,.....one for wearing for medical physical need, and the other for mental/fantsay fun.

[I'M New]

I have read here for awhile. I belong to several purely medical incontinence forums, and people there (a lot of them) tend to act like being incontinent is the worst thing in the world. Here, although most folks would certainly prefer to have normal bowel/bladder functions (I am one of these people,) you all have seemed, like me to embrace your need for diapers, and think of the positive side of things. I am glad I joined, and thanks so much for the welcome.

I'm bladder and bowel incon from a spianl cord injury. I maybe be wrong, but after a while, I think most people who are incon give up trying to make it to the bathroom all the time for several reasons. When your already incon, who cares if you wet your diaper. I would much rather use the diaper than live my life in a bathroom, or worring about it. I got to the point where I did'nt care since I'm going to change anyway. I found managing my incontinence was a lot easier to deal with by changing the diaper and moving forward with life. Not one of my doc's has ever asked me if I could have made to the bathroom in time and used the diaper instead. Like I said,......when your already incon who cares?

[If You Could Go Back To Not Needing Would You]

I would go back in a heart beat. I will have to admit though that it's nice not having to worry about finding a restroom in a panic anymore. I just need to pay more attention so I don't get leaks.

Who has the magic wand? I would like to at least have the option.

[Pt]

I wear for need and I've had so many medical appts (including PT sessions) over the years that I've worn diapers to that I honestly counld'nt begin to count them all. Medical professionals see incontinent ppl wearing diapers all the time. I can assure you, this person that your going to see on Friday has seen plenty of other ppl wearing diapers that your not the first, and you won't be the last.

If you think about it for a moment,....some medical professionals are more prone to seeing incontinet ppl compared to other medical professionals. A good example would be any nurse that works for a urologist will see far more ppl wearing diapers compared to a hospital a lab tech. As such, I'm certain any one that works with, or sees patients on a daily basis will probably see several incontinent ppl every day. Depending on the duties of the medical professional will pretty much determine the frequency.

I've been incontinent for so long I really don't think about that much. In fact, I have a PT appt today myself. I'm a little curtius now, if I remember today, I will ask the physical therapist how many ppl he sees in a week that are incontinent. All of my medical appts (including PT sessions) are at the VA hospital so I would think any PT therapist that works for the VA will probably see several incontinent ppl every week. If I had to guess, I would guess the therapist probably sees about 15 patients per day, and approx 60, or so every week. I'm guessing some where around 25% (15 ppl) would probably be the number of incontinent ppl this PT therapist sees per week. I'll ask and let you know. However, if the therapist tells me I'm the only person that he sees all week that wears a diapers don't expect a reply as I will be in a state of "shock" from the embarrassment.

Well,.......I was kinda close. The PT therapist at the VA hospital where I go see 12 patients per day and said about 10% of those that he sees are incontinent. He also added that the most the ppl he sees are over the age of 50. When I asked how many he saw that were like myself with back injuries he said less than 10%.

[Pt]

I wear for need and I've had so many medical appts (including PT sessions) over the years that I've worn diapers to that I honestly counld'nt begin to count them all. Medical professionals see incontinent ppl wearing diapers all the time. I can assure you, this person that your going to see on Friday has seen plenty of other ppl wearing diapers that your not the first, and you won't be the last.

If you think about it for a moment,....some medical professionals are more prone to seeing incontinet ppl compared to other medical professionals. A good example would be any nurse that works for a urologist will see far more ppl wearing diapers compared to a hospital a lab tech. As such, I'm certain any one that works with, or sees patients on a daily basis will probably see several incontinent ppl every day. Depending on the duties of the medical professional will pretty much determine the frequency.

I've been incontinent for so long I really don't think about that much. In fact, I have a PT appt today myself. I'm a little curtius now, if I remember today, I will ask the physical therapist how many ppl he sees in a week that are incontinent. All of my medical appts (including PT sessions) are at the VA hospital so I would think any PT therapist that works for the VA will probably see several incontinent ppl every week. If I had to guess, I would guess the therapist probably sees about 15 patients per day, and approx 60, or so every week. I'm guessing some where around 25% (15 ppl) would probably be the number of incontinent ppl this PT therapist sees per week. I'll ask and let you know. However, if the therapist tells me I'm the only person that he sees all week that wears a diapers don't expect a reply as I will be in a state of "shock" from the embarrassment.

[Drug Tests]

I'm incon for medical reasons so I wear 24/7. Maybe I've missed something here, but I don't really see much of an issue. Unfasten the diaper on one side and pee in the cup and refasten the diaper, OR take a spare diaper with you so you can change diapers after completing the test. If there is some medical reason as to why your not able to give a sample (pee in the cup), I would say use a cath to obtain the urine sample and move on with life. Be happy that you have a job and drug testing is a common practice with any employer.

[Wearing Diapers For Need Is Different]

I guess I wouldn't necessarily say that AB or DL's shouldn't comment here, but they should be respectful of other people's feelings and view being in this forum as being a guest in someone elses house. Be respectful of their feelings and such. It is so true that people who are incontinent wish they wern't. I know I would. It's one thing to feel like you want to be incontinent and another thing if you truly are! I'm sure even those who say they want to be incontinent and go for days and months in diapers have times when they wish they wore regular underwear. Yes, even those with incontinent desires will find times where it's very inconvienient to be wearing diapers. Personally, I can't see why those who have that desire can't just use their diapers purpously when they feel they need to, as opposed to having to try and make themselves actually incontinent! What is there to gain except for that feeling of total uncontrol? Maybe some people want that total feeling of not being able to know when they have to go or be able to control it. Maybe that makes them feel helpless, but I sure wouldn't want to be like that 24/7/365 and I know people who are incontinent wouldn't wish it on their worst enemy! Well, maybe on their worst enemy.

Anyway, have respect here for those with actual incontinence! Be mindful of what they have been through, what they go through on a daily basis and keep in mind that these people didn't choose to be this way! Not only that, but quite the opposite of how you yourself may feel, they would do anything if they could return to continence and not have to wear diapers!

Thank you for the post. I share your thoughts here. I stand steadfast with the idea of moving the topic "Incontinent Desires" to another part of the forum and NOT having this topic as part of the medical incontinence topic.