[Bladder Games By The Numbers]

Second day protocol: From 8:00 am to 1:00 pm I drank 946 ml (32 oz) per hour: water, Gatorade, and some milk. Then I cut to half that pace for a few more hours, then just normal drinking. I wore each diaper until it was at max capacity. For cloth this meant any pooling in the plastic pants at the crotch, and for disposables this meant slight leaking at the legs, usually when I sat down, or any moisture in the PUL pants if I used them. I had underpads on all seats.

I should add that I'm on vacation this week.

I'd already read a lot about water intoxication and I figured I was within reasonable bounds: I had the Gatorade and some food, and I was watching for signs that my body was telling me to stop.

OK, why? I had several goals:

Goal 1. See if it was possible to drink this much and see what would happen. Would I reach a point where I was a steady-state pee machine, with output matching input? Would I instead hit a wall?

Results: After a while it wasn't pleasant, but I didn't seem to suffer from it. I got to the point where I would wet every 5-10 minutes, sometimes more frequently. Even so there were some slow periods and some floods.

The correct way to measure output would have been a foley catheter and a bed bag. I could have measured every five minutes. But that would have interfered with some of the other goals below, so I just weighed all used diapers. Taking just the last 1.5 hours of the heavy-drinking period when I'd really gotten going, the rate was 818 ml/hour. That was followed by a three-hour period of 619 ml/hour while I cut the drink volume in half. Input during the first period was 946 ml/hour. So I got most of the way toward output = input, and during the second period I was getting rid of 146 ml/hour more than I was taking in.

Goal 2. Wear and wet a lot of diapers because it's fun. I've been out of the game for a while and I wanted a lot of wetting and changing action.

Results: Including the previous day I got to try a Bianco, Attends Extended Wear, Goodnight, ABU Cushies, ABU Super Dry Kids, Depends Real Fit, a few thin cloth training pants, and 44" by 44" flat cloth diapers in a few different folds.

I tried a few oddball things like wearing a Goodnites Bed Mat as a diaper. If you remember the very first disposable diapers that were just a big rectangle folded in, you'll know what I'm talking about. And I tried wetting a thin training pant (no waterproof cover) while sitting on a stack of diapers. But even though I did a few strange things I still measured everything.

Goal 3. Drink a lot from a bottle because it's fun.

Results: This was great. I have an adult-sized Nuk nipple and I carefully made the hole with a toothpick and razor blade. I did gallons of bottle-feeding during this run. The only thing that might have been better would be some variety. Next time I should have some formula, Ensure, juice, etc. I'm mostly a DL, not an AB, but I really like bottle feeding.

Goal 4. Find the outer-limits capacity for several kinds of diapers, experiment with different cloth folds, see the patterns of wet and dry on a maxed-out diaper, and learn what each kind of diaper felt like when it was near capacity and how it failed.

Results: Tons of data. Mostly I go by the ratio of initial weight vs. maxed-out weight. Subtracting one from the other you get the amount of pee, then I take the ratio of that to initial weight. So the best I saw from a normal cloth diaper was a 2.37 ratio, in this case an initial weight of 235 grams and it held 557 grams (19 oz.) of pee. The best regular cloth liner got to 2.44, and a hemp liner from Snap EZ got to 2.92, though I only tried the hemp liner once and it's possible it could do better. The regular cloth diaper and liner each got multiple tries.

I should note that not all of my results on capacity are from the few hours of the "experiment". I've been pushing all of my diapers over the last two days to capacity. The things I do for science.

On to disposables. Naturally the capacity winner was the Bianco with a ratio of 11.81 and a staggering 1,877 grams (63 oz.) of pee. That's basically a half gallon. The thing weighed 4.5 pounds by the end. So the Bianco is a great feat of diaper engineering, but I have to wonder what it's for. I maxed it out in three hours, but that was under extreme conditions. Normally someone my size would produce a little more than that in a whole day, and I don't think anyone would leave a diaper on for that long. Even if you take 2 liters per day and divide that up only over 16 waking hours, assuming that production slows way down while you're asleep, the Bianco would still last for 15 hours. Of course in real life you wouldn't push any diaper to capacity, so say 10 hours?

Goal 5. As a psychological game, see if I could get to a submissive space where I didn't want to drink any more from the bottle, or wet my diaper, or leak onto the chair, or put on a new diaper, but I "had to".

Results: Sort of. I got to a point where it was pretty annoying to keep drinking, timing, changing, weighing, filling in the spreadsheet. There was a small part of my brain that could pretend I was being forced. But I was focusing more on the task than on getting into a sub space. This is something I'd like to get better at.

[Bladder Games By The Numbers]

Who would have thought we would find the 6th Mythbuster here on Daily Diapers!

[Bladder Games By The Numbers]

Missing variable: salt ingestion rate.

The greater the salt content in your urine, the harder it will become for SAP to absorb it.

[Bladder Games By The Numbers]

Man, not bad. ABU Cushies at 8.4 times initial weight (1,446 mg. over initial weight of 154 mg). Granted the Attends still wins at 11.7 times, but the Cushies was a lot cuter. Speaking of cute, I'll try a Super Dry Kids now.

[Bladder Games By The Numbers]

I have a few days with no housemates around and I'm doing some experimenting. I will admit up front that I'm obsessed with spreadsheets and numeric progressions. Here's the protocol I'm trying today.

[Passivity / Helplessness]

Isn't an open cath inviting an infection?

I'm sure there's some risk. I just do it for 12 hours tops, though.

[Passivity / Helplessness]

Click on "Forums", find this one in the list and open it, then look for "Close to incontinence with a catheter", the topic is long but uses a modified cath and you'll fund it interesting Also check the "The Holy grail, or how to experience incontinence without being incontinent" thread which has a couple methods that make some of those who tried them leak without control. Of course you can just wear and use 24/7 and let nature take it's course or help that along with the 12 month program Other hints, general encouragement, and other people's experiences can be found throughout this forum too.

Bettypooh

Bettypooh, thanks for the tips. I'd read those threads and I think I'll leave the catheter modification to the more mechanically-inclined pioneers. Full-time wearing sounds good, and I think eight days is my record.

[Passivity / Helplessness]

I have a Foley catheter in for the first time in about a year. I don't know when I'm peeing though I assume it's a constant drip since I've been drinking a lot. I just changed my diaper, not out of any DL desire but because it was soaked and I would leak on the furniture otherwise.

This is Heaven to me, though of course I would like this sense of helplessness without any mechanical cheats. In my normal life I'm a homeowner, taxpayer, professional, even an officer in my Homeowners' Association. A responsible grown up, with good notes, files, a careful retirement plan, and an attorney on call. But I treasure these moments of passivity and helplessness.

Do you cherish times of passivity and helplessness as much as I do? If so, what do you do to get into that space? For those who have taken on serious 24/7 diaper re-training I salute you. What else works to take away your control?

[Best Sleep I Ever Had]

Also, for those of us blessed with healthy-enough skin, there's the quiet joy of relaxing in the morning in a soaked night diaper. That's what I was doing from about 7:00 to 10:00 this morning and my diapers were holding 26 fl. oz. by the time I changed. I've been up past 40 oz. a couple of times this past week, in cloth or disposables, about 1.2 liters. What, doesn't everybody keep a spreadsheet?

I can get away with this in my house because my housemates all stay up late and get up late, whereas I'm often up at 6:00 or 7:00 even on my days off.

A pot of coffee, DL forums on the computer, the house to myself, sitting in a flood of pee. Man, this is living.

[Best Sleep I Ever Had]

I just started wearing every night about ten days ago, and it's been great. I might wake up once or twice in the night to pee but then I go back to sleep easily and I don't think the interruption hurts me much. This is saying a lot for someone that's struggled with insomnia for years.

Now I find that going to bed feels like a treat and I look forward to it all day. I love that moment where I lie in bed knowing that I'm well diapered and I have nothing to worry about. Even if I'm stressed about work or money or friends it seems like it fades away at that moment and I know the next seven or eight hours will be fine.

[Various Shipping Questions And Discussion]

I'm not sure there's any getting around it. If you need discretion and security, you probably need to rent a mail box at a dedicated mail box place. I've done this for a few years and I've had a few surprises when a large box has markings that would have been mortifying if a neighbor or housemate had seen it. Also I never have to worry about something getting stolen from my door step.

[Diaper Combo!]

Yeah, I like doing this combination when I'm not able to wear completely cloth at night. For instance if I'll just wear a diaper once or twice a week and I want something that I can launder discreetly. You get the feel of cloth and the improved wicking into the disposable, and all you have to wash is some cloth squares that don't scream "diaper" if someone notices them in the dryer. This assumes flat cotton baby diapers, not prefolds. Though for this purpose I prefer these soakers from Snap EZ For Life (http://www.snap-ez.com/Shopping.html#Soakers):

Unless someone reads the label and knows who "Snap EZ" is, these could be cleaning cloths, shop towels, or something else unremarkable.

[What Age Did You Know You Liked Diapers]

I was maybe 10 when I first started wearing makeshift diapers out of paper towels, but not actually using them. Soon after that I was on a trip with my family and I found that my young cousins were still in diapers and I stole two of them and hid them in my luggage.

By 13 I had figured out that I could phone in an order to Sears for incontinence stuff and pay for it C.O.D. at the store. No credit card, no paper trail, and I could take the subway downtown to the store so there were no witnesses. Still, after all that I stupidly hid the stuff in my dresser drawer. It's hard to imagine that my Mom never discovered it, though she didn't say anything. Maybe she thought I had a minor bedwetting problem that I was handling and would outgrow.

Also by this time I knew how to use microfiche and I had a prime collection of magazine diaper ads from the 1950s on. And I had looked up "infantilism" in books on psychology.

I missed a big opportunity when I was younger. My great-grandfather was visiting for a week and would take over my bedroom and my parents said he needed protection so would it be OK if they put a rubber sheet on the mattress and said t was mine to spare Grandpa the embarrassment? Stupidly I said no way. I don't know what they ended up doing but I could have had a rubber sheet all that time if I had just taken one for the team.

[Wearing In Public Without Wanting To Be Noticed (Ninja Wetter!)]

I've gone out in public lots of times, like a movie or book shopping. The new thing this past week has been to wear and wet around my housemates at home without being noticed. But I only tried that after years of practice among strangers.

For being in public I always try to break down the problem and solve each part: looks, sound, smell, protection.

Looks: It's easy to make sure the diaper itself (or waterproof pants) are not visible, especially with a onesie. The bulge is more difficult. I used to tie a shirt around my waist Bill and Ted style but that look was more common back then. Now I wear a big shirt chosen to hide the outline, such as a thick flannel button-down shirt. The stiffness of the fabric means it might flare out slightly over the diaper but you just look like you have a fat butt, and nobody would consider that unusual these days.

Also someone earlier in the thread mentioned cargo shorts. I like cargo pants because they have so many pockets and loops and such that they break up the outline of the diaper. With the right pants and shirt, someone would have to be on the ground behind you to see the bulge of the diaper, or maybe following you up a staircase or elevator and examining you closely.

The visual part I still struggle with is avoiding all the little mannerisms: walking a little funny, smoothing down my shirt tail obsessively, feeling for leaks on my leg, stopping to pee. The last one is pretty easy to get around, though. Just pull out a cell phone and pretend to make a call and you can stand pretty much anywhere and have a nice pee as long as you're not inconveniencing people trying to get around you.

Sound: Real rubber pants seem to work well, and either cloth diapers or cloth-backed disposables. A snug onesie to keep things from moving. Unless you have really crinkly plastic pants it's not going to be an issue in public. Half the people are talking on the phone or have music playing in their ear buds anyway. This is something I've had to work on a lot more wearing around the house since it's often so quiet. I just try to move more slowly, but it's still going to take some experimentation until I feel confident. I ordered several kinds of plastic pants last week and hopefully I'll find some combination that works. One thing I can do in the house is wear something like a Depend Real Fit or a Snap-EZ pocket diaper with nothing outside of them. These are pretty quiet but I wouldn't trust them for extended wear, driving, etc.

Smell: This one is tricky because you can get used to your own smell quickly and not realize what you're inflicting on other people. So for instance I enjoy wearing and wetting in a coffee shop but I'll only do that if I'm sure I started out completely clean and dry not too long ago. It's not that I'm worried about being caught. It's that the patrons around me have gone out of their way to enjoy a nice sensory experience and I don't want to interfere with it. For something like walking around at a mall or watching a movie with some space around me, I don't worry about it too much. Still I wouldn't go to a movie that I know is going to be sold out with everybody crammed together.

At home I've had to think about smell a lot more. I've been more aggressive about changing frequently and cleaning up with soap and water at every change, plus making sure to change out of any clothes that have absorbed even a slight smell. I have some Nullo on order and I'm eager to see if that helps. I also drink a lot of water. I found this article helpful: http://www.incontinentsupport.org/chap6.php, as well as the related articles on laundering cloth diapers.

Protection: Out in public I always wear plenty of diaper even if it means I have to work harder to hide it. I like to get a good setup that I know I can count on, whether cloth or disposable, including plastic pants if needed, and then put on rubber bloomers over that. The bloomers mean I basically have a rubber sheet that I'm taking with me everywhere and setting down on every chair and car seat without having to think about it. As with smell this is not so much out of a fear of being caught as much as it is that I don't want to wreck someone else's stuff, or have some movie patron sit down on a wet seat that I left behind.

Again at home I use simpler setups but change much more quickly. If I'm kind of pushing my luck I might sit on a folded towel just in case. If I accidentally left the towel behind I could just say that I spilled some water on the chair and I'm soaking it up.

Fun: Oh, yeah, I almost forgot this category. For those of us who are doing this recreationally, it's supposed to be fun. I really enjoy wearing, wetting, and being wet for hours out in the world. I feel more like my real self, more carefree and happy. But for me that's only fun if I know I've taken care of business in terms of diapers, clothing, laundry, hygeine, etc. Once you're set up properly you can relax and enjoy yourself.

[Trying Cloth Outside The House]

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I've often washed them in hotels / motels. It's kind of a turn-on to think about the other guests checking to see if the washer / dryer are being used and finding my diapers in there. Not sure if that's ever happened, but it does provide a bit of a rush during the time I'm washing them.

Yeah, I enjoy this, too. In fact I have a load of diapers in the hotel dryer right now. This is my second load of the weekend but it's back home and back to reality in an hour. I'm wearing an M4 disposable as sort of a "transition". No more cloth because I have no more access to discreet laundry.

When I don't have to worry about being discovered I love the process of washing and drying cloth diapers. I'd love to hang them out on the line.

[Trying Cloth Outside The House]

Hey guys. It's been a couple of years since my last confession. I hope you're doing well.

After a several-month dry spell I had the chance to spend the weekend in diapers, and I thought I'd challenge myself to use cloth the whole time. I really love cloth diapers and rubber pants for sleeping or for lounging around in private, the thicker the better, but I've never gone out in them.

I did some errands and two movies in cloth and it was pretty nice. It took a bit more planning. I'm used to going out with something like an Abena M4 disposable with a booster, and that can take anything you throw at it for hours. With diapers being a rare treat for me I wanted to drink a lot all weekend and use my diapers a lot, you know, make the most of my time. I had an emergency kit, a discreet "diaper bag" with a change and wipes, but I never had to use it.

My setup was a Snap-EZ-For Life brief with three cloth liners, plastic pants tucked in everywhere, then loose rubber bloomers as a backup. This is like wearing a portable rubber sheet everywhere, which was important as I'm not wiling to wreck a theater seat just because I took it a little too far. Then a onesie. Maybe I overdid the setup but it worked great.

People on DD often say that you can get away with a lot in public because people aren't really paying attention, and they're right. I had some baggy cargo pants and a big shirt, and apparently never raised an eyebrow. The tucked in plastic pants seemed to contain any odors and I had the confidence to flood several times at the movies.

It's been almost two days now in nothing but cloth and it's been really relaxing and like I don't have to worry about things, like it's OK right now. I guess I don't have to explain it on this forum. Even though I don't often get to wear diapers these days I check up on the forum and I appreciate everything you've shared. I'd love to hear your stories of how you learned to wear cloth diapers everywhere.

[Distraction Or Security]

Because I wear diapers all the time, I don't think about them all that much (just when I breathe). But they are not a distraction. They're security for me. How about you? Distraction or security, or maybe both?

Both, like when you're out walking around with a good friend. They're a distraction but also security. My problem lately with being diapered in public is that I'm getting too relaxed about it, sometimes forgetting I'm wearing which I could not have imagined a couple of years ago. So maybe I need more of that distraction thing.

-- Will Ford

[Wetting While Laying Down.]

Well if it happens if you are correct, then I guess I will shift to cloth at night unless youu all have a better disposable out there for wearing while in bed.

I can second that about switching to cloth. Before I tried that it was a struggle to wet lying down because I really didn't trust the diaper, even high-end disposables. But with thick cloth and good rubber pants I was able to relax and let it happen whenever in any position. There is nothing like lying on your back and feeling the pee running down to the back (along the sides or the front or all three) but that only works if you know it's going to be contained.

One guy also mentioned just wetting the bed without diapers and while everyone should try that once you're probably going to get pretty cold and uncomfortable. I knew a kid with this problem (before there were Goodnights) and it wasn't like he could just turn over and go back to sleep without changing clothes and sheets.

-- Will Ford

[Drippy Day In Cloth]

I wear thick pull-on cloth diapers with plastic pants day and night. When I wet, my bladder usually empties. I wear relaxed fit jeans or pleated slacks to conceal my diaper bulge. I’m usually able to change before there’s too much risk of leaking. But that’s why I wear thick diapers in the first place!

Yeah, it's amazing how much you can get away with. After wetting the cloth diaper pretty heavily I went back to the hotel room and looked in the mirror and couldn't see it, though it felt really obvious, heavy and sagging. I'd like to try those thick pull-on cloth diapers you mentioned, and shaped ones like Snap-EZ (http://www.snap-ez4life.com/InfoPocketDiaper.html) because they seem really babyish. For overnight I've got the bath towels and they work great, but for walking around there's a lot to try.

Disposables are fun, but cloth is like a whole new world I'm discovering. I guess in a hobby like this you have to keep trying new things.

-- Will Ford

[Drippy Day In Cloth]

What type of material and how many layers?

For going out, a prefold adult cloth diaper (I don't know the exact material) with three cloth baby diapers folded inside, with a plastic bloomer. The bloomer seems to smooth out the lines more than standard rubber pants. So basically not going overboard with thickness outside. This means I have to pay attention. I did one complete soaking but didn't push it past that.

For inside, a prefold adult cloth diaper inside a large bath towel (mine, not the hotel's) or two bath towels for overnight. This makes a substantial thickness/waddle/absorbency which I'm sure a lot of cloth diaper aficionados can appreciate. But you'd be able to spot this setup a mile away and I'm not brave enough to go outside like that.

-- Will Ford

[Drippy Day In Cloth]

Since I was trapped in a hotel room anyway I thought I would try a new protocol: Cloth only, with a single cloth diaper carried over from change to change (inside whatever goes around it). I know I'm courting diaper rash but it feels so good to be wet all the time without a break. I'm going through every bit of cloth I own, drinking a lot of fluids and wetting like crazy. There is nothing like cloth for wetting lying down

The "drippy" in the title is a reference to the fact that I'm waiting until drips run down my legs until I change. It's amazing how many cloth diapers you can go through in a single day if you're dedicated . I'm not worried about the hotel carpet because I'm drinking so much water that my pee is probably almost all water so a few drops won't hurt anything. I'm pretty conscientious about this stuff and I wouldn't create a cleaning problem for the hotel.

I even went out in public this morning in cloth diapers for the first time, to a coffee shop and grocery store. It was great to feel the diapers filling and sagging as I wet, but I doubt anybody could see anything. Still it felt huge.

Have you guys tried something like this?

-- Will Ford

[Celebrities In Diapers]

That child that has had to wear a diaper while being on the set while "Action" is in effect does have the right to have his/her dignity protected.

That did occur to me watching one of the Harry Potter movies, for instance a Great Hall scene with hundreds of kids. They're all wearing robes anyway, so you wouldn't need CGI. I would think they would at least make something like Goodnights an option for those who couldn't go a few hours without a break, because it would get pretty time consuming if every time you set up the shot someone had to sneak away for a bathroom break, or if kids were keeling over from dehydration from avoiding liquids. I can't imagine anyone being forced into this, or putting it into a contract. If they do this I'm sure they're discreet about it, and it's just part of being a professional in a situation where you really can't afford not to be ready when the camera is rolling. I'm sure there are poker players who make the same judgement call.

-- Will

[Going 24/8]

Well, through a couple of fortunate turns of fate I find myself in a hotel room for eight days, in a place where nobody knows me, and with a ton of online work to do but only needing a few trips outside during this period. I decided I wasn't going to let this golden opportunity pass me by so I decided the moment I arrived to play with wearing diapers the whole time. I had packed a bunch of Eurobriefs anyway, because I like to "reward" myself on business trips by wearing at night.

But once I realized there was a laundry here I decided to try cloth diapers for the first time since I was a toddler. I read all the articles in this site: http://www.incontinentsupport.org/primer_index.php. No time to order real cloth diapers, of course, so I bought some bath towels. I'm now wearing two large bath towels lined with half a dozen flat cloth baby diapers, and it's the thickest, plushest thing I've ever worn. And no, it would have been plain wrong to use the hotel's towels for this .

I even indulged in a small baby wipe warmer. Ah, such luxury. I know it won't last but I'll wring everything I can out of the situation.

Do any of you guys have this sort of secret life when you travel for work? Have you tried bath towels as diapers?

-- Will