[Would you consider asking your doctor to write a letter of medical necessity to get your diapers covered by insurance or other payor?]

1 hour ago, deewet said:

I have to step up again in this conversation, as there is a bit of uninformed rhetoric going on here.

As I said, Medicade is supported by taxes, mostly by state taxes I will add- check it out if you doubt me, the states pay for the greatest share of Medicade and as a result, rules about who can get what from this program differ from state to state.

Medicare is NOT funded by social security, it is a program by itself and collects funds as a separate item from employers and employees, much like social security but within its own program. (check your pay stub, you will see deductions for social security as well as medicare)  As of today, it is self sustaining (Ie no federal tax support) but that is short lived, same as social security as each program is headed to insolvency.

To say that employer provided health plans were not far superior to what we have with Medicare is certainly not accurate, I worked for 50 yrs prior to retirement, in the beginning I purchased my own health insurance, but following 4 decades, it was employer provided.  The last 20 yrs I had the best coverage I ever had, including great dental and vision, as well as pharma with no restrictions.  This was with a company that employed only about 70,000 people but they pursued good health practices, promoting healthy activities, even paying for many of the extra things we can do to stay healthy.  They were self insured  (their trust partners that facilitated the program)  paid doctors and hospitals typically in the 70-90% range of billing compared to what Medicare does, which is less than 30% of what they call covered expenses (I check my medical billings, you should as well)  How long can our health system survive getting paid such a small portion of what they bill.  Could you live today if your pay checks were only 1/3rd of what you anticipate?  Why do you think that most doctors will not take new patients on Medicare, only patients they have a history with prior to getting on Medicare.

I have traveled the world in my working life and witnessed first hand what socialized medicine has done in other countries, and can see that we are certainly on a path in that direction.  I hope we will remember what we are about to give up!!!

i don't even know where to begin with this reply. really don't think this is the thread for your weird political rants dude. the discussion isn't about private insurance vs assistance. it's about whether or not one should get assistance for self-induced incontinence. what specific department that TAX-FUNDED assistance comes from is irrelevant. you're confused and derailing everything. stoooooooooooooop.

[Would you consider asking your doctor to write a letter of medical necessity to get your diapers covered by insurance or other payor?]

8 hours ago, deewet said:

When did the US start to pay for medical insurance from the tax rolls?  I suppose you could say that Medicade is tax paid assistance, but correct me if I am wrong, but don't the states pay for most of that?  That would fit the bill for sure but not as a "USA pd benefit per say.  

When it comes to Medicare, that was sold to people like social security was, you pay into a system all your working life, and when you retire you draw out of it and still pay a portion even then. 

Unfortunately, Medicare and Social Security are very poorly managed, have money used for many things not intended for originally, and are going to run out of primary funds very soon. 

Worse than that, Medicare is very poor insurance coverage IE when I left my company which was self-insured, my copay for medical, dental, pharma, and vision was less that what my Medicare and supplement is now, and I had no restrictions on which doctors I could see, and the doctors were all getting paid much more than what they get pd now on our govt managed insurance!

where do you think the "state's" money comes from? all government spending comes from taxes in one way or another. 

[Would you consider asking your doctor to write a letter of medical necessity to get your diapers covered by insurance or other payor?]

also an american here. i think this is a great question! can spark an interesting discussion, and i do think perspectives would vary greatly from country to country.

personally, I wouldn't have any qualms about getting diapers covered even having intentionally untrained. I agree that it is essentially having taxpayers pay for my fetish, however, I'm a taxpayer too. and my taxes pay for a LOT of other things i don't agree with. so it goes both ways, i think. it's not just me using taxes to indulge myself while giving nothing back, so i have no problem using the system in exchange. if, hypothetically, my country operated much more in line with my own views, and i felt all of my taxes were well-spent, i probably would think it's wrong to take advantage of the system in this way. but that's far from the case unfortunately. I guess inherently i think it's wrong, but i'd do it out of spite.

to follow up on some replies, i don't really believe self-induced incontinence is valid. I don't believe there's such a thing as a psychological need to be incontinent. i feel like that's just kinda an image some people present to try to escape needlessly cruel judgement for their interests. but it certainly shouldn't be regarded as the same as an actual medical condition.

but yeah! there's my 2 scents~
*flickers my fluffy skunk tail teasingly 'cause i'm a total furry*

[Proposal: Incontinence Desires sub-forum rules – read BEFORE posting]

rule 2 is impossibly vague, and very abusable. you nor nobody frequenting this form is anywhere near qualified to decide what's "academically rigorous". sounds a lot to me like "don't mention science, i'll vaguely say it's not rigorous because i don't like it's conclusions"
like...you pretty outright said in the rule itself that it's "unlikely" anybody will present science to you that's contrary to the goal of self-induced incontinence. just a blanket statement of bias lol. you essential want to turn this forum into a flat-earther style echo-chamber with that lol

i morally disagree with rule 4. i think if people want to do dangerous things to their body, that's their choice. and information regarding those potentially dangerous ideas should not be restricted here.

i also disagree with not showing genitals or feces. a content warning on such threads perhaps would be handy. if you don't like to see those things, don't go to the posts. if you accidently stumble on it, too bad. it's not the end of the world. you are on the incontinence forum after all lol. let people share what they like.

overall a bad suggestion that i strongly disagree with.

[Incontinence]

i've seen a few posts here about the link between bladder and bowel incontinence! from what i've gathered, there does seem to be a strong link between the two. while I imagine it's technically different muscles the control each, what i think is the case is that people, or at least most people can't feel the difference between the two, or control them independently very well.

with myself as an example, i'm totally unable to mess without also wetting. i'll note i have zero untraining experience, sadly that wouldn't work with my lifestyle. but any time i go number 2, my bladder always releases too! sometimes it's almost linked a little bit the other way around too. if i wanna really empty my bladder all the way, sometimes a little bit of poo is required!

it does seem that some people have managed to attain bladder incontinence without bowel, so going for just one is technically possible i suppose, but probably a lot more difficult. my conclusion is that if you're really dedicated to achieving incontinence, it's probably best to just...let it happen, all the way. and accept no poopies control either :3 

[I told my doctor about incontinent desires, diapers, and I asked her for help to get surgery.]

1 hour ago, Ferix said:

Where did I take offense? I speak from experience and will respond with what I know.

 

My experience includes working 15 years as an EMT and 5 of those years working in the mental health court that was responsible for admitting patients against their will. I have sat through hundreds of court cases so I know a lot about the legal thresholds that are required that must be breached to hold someone against their will in a mental hospital. The person must show that they are: a danger to themselves; a danger to others; gravely disabled. You can see a more detailed explanation here. Please explain how I breach those thresholds and how it is that none of the 7 doctors I have talked to about this specifically made an attempt to commit me involuntarily.

I'm sorry you lost a significant other. You're not really providing any information other than an ominous warning without any information backing your statement up.

No it's not. It may seem easy to put someone on a 72 hour hold if they show that they are a danger to self, others, or gravely disabled, but that requires a mental health professional or a police officer and it usually involves some sort of crisis that calls the authorities there. Anything longer requires a court order. I have not breached any of the thresholds.

What's your point? Why call me a friend with such condescending tone?

You're wrong: There are legal standards. I literally worked in one of the largest psychiatric court in the USA for 5 years. I know the thresholds as stated above. You'd be surprised that there are quite a few people with severe mental health disorders living their lives not in involuntary confinement.

This is true for long term involuntary treatments. They would have to prove that the legal threshold to hold someone against their will is met. Have I met those?

This is another ominous warning without any supportive evidence.

I don't mean any disrespect, but you have not demonstrated any knowledge that is based on evidence.

Thank you.

Okay?

 

You have not informed me of the risks, you've only given vague ominous warnings.

Lets say I want to warn you about the risks of riding a bike. It would not be very effective or convincing if I simply said: "I lost a loved one who was riding a bike. You may cause permanent injury to yourself if you ride a bike, friend" without explaining why those things happen or what can be done to make riding a bike safer. This sort of warning would not show that I am knowledgeable about riding bikes or the risks, in similar ways that you have not informed me the risks of my actions.

"a danger to themselves, to others, or gravely disabled" are all subjective, undefinable terms. what one considers "dangerous" varies massively from individual to individual. how dangerous, exactly? there's no mathematical, empirical standard here. laws related to "mental health" are the most vague, interpretable nonsense in the entire legal system. and that source you linked confirms as much to me once again. most people committed against their will are perfectly functional. do you deny that? like, even britney spears was a slave for 13 years lol. you're utterly ignorant if you think only extreme cases result in people's rights being stripped in various ways. you would have seen countless of examples to the contrary if you actually worked in the industry as you say you did. what exactly do you want, a 400 page essay reviewing dozens of cases and citing hundreds of legal documents? of course i summarized and made it "vague". this isn't a debate, just a warning from my own experience. that's what the site is about, right? sharing our experiences? i'm not gonna prove anything to you, and i don't expect you to prove anything you've said either.

actively trying to damage your body, and pursue a risky and unfounded surgery is obviously dangerous. you've even mentioned infections from this interest, have you not? i don't know how you could work on cases like these and not know these things. i'm gonna have to say you're making it up honestly. those 7 doctors were decent people, only monsters do this to people. but they exist. discount my personal experience if you want i guess. stay in denial forever. statistically, it's rare. but it sucks to see you denying even the possibility. my conscious is clear, i tried to warn you.

you are beyond needlessly hostile and aggressive, i do not know why. but you clearly have no intention of being told anything. i have zero doubt nothing i could link or cite would make you budge. it's just been debate debate debate every time anybody's mentioned any concern of any kind. so i'm done here.

[I told my doctor about incontinent desires, diapers, and I asked her for help to get surgery.]

I know you took offense to somebody pointing this out before, but i'd simply not feel right if i didn't.

forced "treatments", even up to involuntary commitment to a psych hospital is a real risk here. i'm not at all saying that should be done to you, i disagree with that ever being done. but it absolutely is. I see you are in america, the same as me. you do not understand how dangerous the mental health industry can get here. as somebody who lost their significant other because of this industry...I have done way more studying about the darker side of things here than is healthy.

it is SHOCKINGLY easy to force people into long-term situations. do you "officially" count as somebody who would have this done to them, as according to the dsm? no, probably not? but it's not like there's cameras operating here, friend. there are no objective legal standards as to when these things can be done, is the issue. it ultimately is in large part up to the discretion of psychiatrists/therapists you speak to whether or not they want to put you in a very bad situation. you speak to the wrong person about this, and that's it. you have been fortunate to run into decent people so far, but i'd be careful about pushing my luck too far. once you are in this situation...things spiral from there. it rarely stops at just a one-time 3 day imprisonment. 

nobody likes being told by a stranger that they know better what they're getting into than them. but you don't understand. I swear i don't mean it as disrespectful, but you can take it that way if you want i guess.

your courage to pursue your desires in an official capacity is inspiring, and I love reading your updates. don't get me wrong, your identity and feelings are 100% valid. I support your journey fully. but I also worry for you, as you think you're safer than you really are.

I'm not telling you what to do, i just want you to be aware of the risks, so whatever decision you make going forward is an informed one.

[Should surgery for permanent incontinence be allowed on those who claim to suffer from living in a continent body?]

here's my take:
people should be able to do what they want with their own bodies, period. no justification needed to anyone else. whether others think they're making a mistake or not. it's their mistake to make. THEIR body, nobody else's. it's certainly any physician's right to refuse them a requested procedure for whatever reason, but that is their decision alone. there will always be somebody somewhere willing to assist. any procedure of this sort should be entirely at the expense of the person wanting it though, as should any related future expenses. i do consider it essentially cosmetic and unnecessary. so to summarize, in my view, any surgery of this sort should be provided to anybody who wants it for ANY reason. and there are definitely no "better" reasons than any others. i do not believe in dysmorphia or any sort of psychology nonsense.

[What is the technique to overwork the bladder?]

On 10/31/2021 at 12:38 PM, BabySpiderBoy said:

Hahahaha! hahahaha!?? But baby talk is fun buddy! And it makes me feel little.???☺️? You're definitely missing out.??❤️ *BIG HUGS!*?❤️??❤️? *SQUEEZES YOU TIGHT!* *Pats your diapered bottom!*??❤️☺️?❤️?

Could you...not drag random people into your roleplaying please? this thread is clearly not the place for it. talk however you want, but if other people want to engage with it then they'll do so on their own terms. all you're achieving is making people uncomfortable.

[Tunnel Plug for Un-Potty Training?]

I've wondered about this sort of thing for a while actually! I don't have any experience with tunnel plugs, but I like to wear butt plugs sometimes and they definitely help loosen me up down there. So far it's not loosened me to the point that I've lost any control, but it's definitely a lot less painful getting plowed by my boyfriend when I've been wearing that week hehe ?

It seems that I do return to normal after a while, but I've not worn long-term either. A few hours a week is what I usually do, And I don't wear particularly large ones either. I've seen this topic come up a few times in my internet adventures, and most people don't seem to think it has any chance of helping weaken your control, But I think I have to disagree. I have heard the very occasional success stories of people wearing lots, and it's a very exciting idea! I can imagine that if I worked my way up to wearing all day every day, and maybe worked up to a little larger size, keeping myself stretched like that could totally do some damage to those muscles. I'd have to work my way up to that goal for a while though or it would get pretty sore down there after a while. maybe that's a sign that it's working! the eventual goal would be to wear basically 24/7, only taking it out when you need access to your rear for whatever reasons hehe. I think that It's very possible that you could weaken your control like this after long enough. whether or not it would return over time I'm not sure though, maybe after a long time you could achieve permanent damage and not need the plug anymore! ? 

I've long been tempted to try this experiment out for myself, If I'm ever in a position in life where I'm able to indulge in my incontinence fantasies i'll definitely try it. I think it would be great way to get much less reversible incontinence if it works, removing the need for mental discipline. If anybody decides to try out this sort of training, please keep us posted!  

 

[If you could have no control of your bladder]

I would probably take it. i guess it depends on the specifics of my newfound incontinence, and how the transformation feels. I think a big part of the joy of incontinence is feeling your body change on your journey to no control. regardless though, it would save me a lot of effort.

[My wife is nearly there]

hey jasonwrench, i've loved reading all your updates and always check back to see your wife's progress, it's very inspiring! the anal stretching idea has me very curious, i've seen a few success stories with it but not many try this method it seems. though im no expert, I have long thought it would be a great way to lose control relatively quick, so i thought i would offer my take. I think that even more important than size is duration, leaving plugs in as long and often as possible is the key. i think that leaving it in basically 24/7, only taking it out for essential voiding will produce results much quicker. taking it out at night may be resetting a good portion of your progress, at least for now. moving up in size gradually is still good. in the future, once she is very used to large plugs taking them out at night should be fine i would think but consistency is key in these early phases. much love from meeko, i look forward to your updates :)