[If you was given the chance to stop would you ?]

As someone who has been disabled since birth (non incontinence related), achieves incontinence (not disability related), regained continence (disability related), and then lost incontinence (disability related). I have two conflicting answers. If I could go back in the past to never having these desires or interests; yes, with the caveat that the lack of interest would have kept me continent even into the future. If I had to change things now, or if not having interest in this lifestyle (not a kink for me, more of a dysphoria and identity issue), I would still end up with incontinence before retirement, no, as having an interest in diapers makes managing the type of incontinence I do have much more pleasant as it can only be efficiently managed with diapers. (Nerve damage, neurogenic bladder, mixed incontinence, failed incontinence meds; all difficult to treat with varying level of urine output and not knowing how full the bladder gets because of lack of sensations).

Maybe, in my case- if there is a perfect scenario of dealing with the inevitability of in continence this was a pretty good path, considering my alternatives.

As it stands I’m pretty sure I became incontinent well before I would have if I didn’t have interest in any of this, but it happened to align with the Covid-19 which has made adjusting to no choice in the matter, slightly easier. (Always had troubles mastering changing in a stall, which now is not an issue, not because it doesn’t happen but because I’ve had time for intentional practice day after day at home, new hook/loop products, and transitioning makes things easier. )

[I don’t get why you think it’s so bad?]

The drama behind all this comes down to choice and identity, in my opinion. The many people who warn against becoming incontinent are those that, even if they now enjoy the experience, or sought it out from the go, realize all of the impacts that it can have on one’s life.

I’m one of the veterans on here, and even I subscribe to the try before you buy. Yes I get that the try doesn’t fully scratch that itch for loss of control, and diapers as a tool to live your life as incontinent but it does make sure logistically you can and want to live this way.

I’ve stated numerous times that this desire is more closely aligned with identity than kink. It’s the difference between enjoying cross dressing, and being transgender. Just like being trans and actually transitioning there are reasons that standards of care require 12 months of continuous real life experience before surgery. Part of it is to relieve dysphoria, but part of it is ensure that you can adjust and get through the transition with ample opportunity to change your mind.

While I would never force a disability on another, I would absorb support the exploration of trying to alleviate and understand a dysphoria of the body, no matter how society views it.

[My journey to 24x7]

I'm often amused by the excited and the enthusiastic opining about the freedom and convenience that will be conferred by wearing nappies.
One of the first lessons I learned is that as an adult, using my pants as a toilet (and getting away with it) on an ongoing basis requires considerable supplies, infrastructure, time and planning.  The concept of storing wee in your bladder until you can simply empty it out into a toilet and walk away never looked so simple and convenient until after I'd spent a few weeks living in nappies [emoji846]
I say do what you're doing:  move forward as you are comfortable and stop when you get too uncomfortable.  This is supposed to make you feel better, not worse.
 
 

Well said... and yet I think the convenience factor is often at least one degree of separation removed from the true or primal motivation. Whatever that may be.

I will say that once that infrastructure, planning, practice, trial and error, troubleshooting, anxiety, personal growth and acceptance is out of the way...there is certainly some convenience to be had, at least in the moment to moment. Sure you can still end up in the “I have to get out of this situation now!” Moments, but I also have never slept so well in my adult life, or been able to get completely absorbed in a project for work, a hobby, or whatnot.

In my experience it’s that really long in between that is hellish. If you can manage to traverse that valley great rewards wait for you at the other side.

I think that same valley is not one to be discounted or cheated. It is one of the great, and needed barriers to entry. If you’re determined enough, and able enough to make it work and actually get through that barrier, you know what you’re getting yourself into with ample opportunity to turn around. It weeds out most people that don’t need to be incontinent to feel complete, and those that are left have found a way to make it work in their life, hopefully to a healthy extent. If you’re not in a place, mentally, physically, socially, or financially (perhaps especially financially) than you’re unlikely to stick with it, despite the need. I’m convinced that some people that need to be incontinent to feel complete don’t actually make it, but if I had to choose, I’d rather choose an unfulfilled need, rather than a lifelong regret. The former at least can become a goal to work towards.

I also think that the person that emerges on the other side of the valley has undergone significant change, perhaps most noticeable in self understanding, and self acceptance. The first time I went through the journey it felt damn near identical to my gender transition. High stakes in terms of lifelong impact, social, opportunity, family, friends, new jobs, tons of out of pocket expenses, learning curves, etc. there is a reason standards of care require 12 months of real life experience before a surgery.

I don’t regret either, but it is remarkable how closely they both felt.

[Strange days indeed - a 24 x 7 experiment]

Compression pants are your friends here...
With respect to [mention=16278]BlakeJordan[/mention]'s comment.
I suspect the relatively small slice of the incontinent demographic pie who DO select their own products are influenced more by embarrassment, availability and economy than solid research or shared experience.  I also suspect that even those furtive few are in the minority and that MOST adult nappy customers are not “user/chooser” in purchasing modality and thus the marketing is aimed at caregivers, be they individual or institutional. 

A good example was the Molicare Slip premium getting replaced with the Molicare Elastic.  Whilst not terrible, the efficacy of the Molicare Elastic is simply LESS than the product it replaced.  It affords absolutely zero protection to the hip areas and when used repeatedly supine, is prone to overwhelming the front padded area and leaking out towards those open-range hips and adjacent bedding.  In addition to being slightly more leak prone, I find it slightly less comfortable to wear.

A little bit of google research into why these “improvements” occurred suggests that unit cost and changing time/ergonomic risk for carers were the prime drivers.  The “Improved patient comfort” claim I believe to be just the standard kind of meaningless drivel foisted on us by marketing departments to plaster over inconvenient product shortcomings. 
The Germans have simply fabulous word for this:  verschlimmbesserung.  An "improvement for the worse".
And that’s even with a “medical” grade adult diaper.  Don’t get me started on the desolately porous rubbish that is peddled on retail shelves down here…

 

Do you think the market beyond caretakers exist, or am I complaining about a true minority. Basically I’m wondering if there is a large market that has yet to be tapped?

[Strange days indeed - a 24 x 7 experiment]

I agree with this completely. It seems that the market has concluded that if you wear diapers, you also sit, or lay in a prone position, for most of your day. Whereas I have, according to my fitness tracker, sometimes walked 15 or 20 km in a diaper over the course of a day. A onesie, as a prophylactic for sagging,  is a valued addition to my wardrobe, and back when I was leaving the house at least a couple of days a week for work, I generally employed one. I haven't tried sleeping in one but now I'm curious. Although, as I said above, nighttime leakage hasn't been much of an issue for me.   

If I didn’t toss and turn and sleep on my side for half the night I might be able to skip the onesie. As it stands that’s not changing anytime soon.

I somehow leaked twice in a row after not a single overnight leak in nearly three months. Grumble grumble. Granted the second one I was prepared for. My autonomic dysfunction literally forces me to drink an average of 1.5-2 gallons a day and my body tends to hold onto fluids and then exorcise the evil water that has diluted the balance of precious minerals.

The first one was “just” the super annoying “any diaper can leak” and I still have no clue how that one happened. Still wish those wtf leaks could be eliminated.

—-
I do wonder what exactly people who wear 24/7 and are not aware of the abdl community do to learn, troubleshoot, get product advice, etc.

I know in some parts of the world there are incontinence nurses and what not, but I’ve never found any here in the US.

I tend to wince when doctors and health care professionals think depends are a good option for long term wear.

I’m honestly surprised that once the management of incontinence is settled, via use of diapers that there is no patient education, referral to venders etc. it’s generally “good luck!”

Now I get that is obviously a last resort, but once decided and agreed upon it just seems obscured not to get a guide of sorts.

I’m constantly surprised when interacting with the medical community and I happen to need to change etc (I’ve spent over 3 months in hospitals in the past year) of how much shock there is that I use bed pads, pul pants, terry pants, onesies, repair lotions.. let alone that I have relatively thick/high end diapers and have a method to prep, fluff, boost, dispose of etc.

when asked “how did you learn this?” I want to scream back “how did you not‽”

It seems like the medical world is under the assumption that people don’t have systems to minimize say to say impact of wearing 24/7. Just weird to me.

[Strange days indeed - a 24 x 7 experiment]

If I may suggest...

From someone who also has typically fitful nights of sleep as the norm.

On nights that I know I’m likely to sleep hard, be that alcohol, sleeping pills, or just exhaustion...

I will typically add a booster, and double up on the Gary pul active wear, the terry plastic pants, and a onesie.

I find that this is needed as on those nights I am likely to stay in a single position for extended periods. The key seems to be to prevent movement and create a seal as close to the leg gatherings and waist of the diaper. I believe this basically creates additional time for the diaper to absorb/wick. The effect is different than what I would expect as there is typically very little liquid in the pul pants, and more often than not, the terry lined pants are dry. If the terry pants are wet it’s usually dispersed in the crotch area and not the waistband.

I believe the compression keeps any leaks coming up from the waist as well. I also believe that there is some sort of flooding involved in the alcohol induced sleep.

In all honesty I’ve come to have this combo be my default for nighttime protection as it’s easier to just have a habit I can stick with and not think about. I don’t recall the last time I leaked outside of this onto the sheets, bed-pad, or mattress cover. On most nights, the fitful night’s rest that is my norm, the tossing and turning + compression is enough to not leak at all into even the pul pants.

[What To Expect]

It seemed from what I'd read that you'd effectively trained yourself urinary IC but then reconsidered things and managed to re-train yourself back to continence (albeit somewhat reduced continence) which contradicts the advice of some others.  That didn't altogether surprise me. I'm learning that experience eats advice for breakfast.  The "fled before other priorities" comment was reflecting that your re-acquired continence seemed to, not by conscious choice, rapidly disappear once the constellation of other medical conditions arose.

That makes sense, and is completely accurate. I’ll certainly emphasize the “managed” and “re-acquired...once the constellation of other medical issues arose”.

I appreciate the clarification!

[What To Expect]

There were so many things I had to throw out the window or at least do what I could to achieve this. The need was so much stronger than the worry about odors & such. I do everything I can to minimize all the social taboos and I feel I do a pretty good job of it. That being said if I couldn’t do anything it wouldn’t change my outlook. The positives for me far outweigh the negatives. I also understand there are many that would like to follow my path but life gets in the way. I feel bad for them as they must be very conflicted.

Good feedback on if circumstances changed it would not change things for you. I really appreciate the perspective. There definitely is conflict, at least for me.

Can I ask what you had to throw out the window?

[What To Expect]

You do a much better job explaining what could be some of the reasons for it than I ever could begin to. What I know for sure is that now completely dual I’m in a much better place for it. 

I don’t know that is a reflection on me or you as much as it is the lack of research and limitations of language.

I’ve only gotten to this skill level of articulating a human experience via medical jargon through necessity and years of day in and day out practice.

It is worth mentioning that I have intentionally resisted leaning into the desire for dual incontinence. I would bet this desire/dysphoria is much more common amongst the incontinence desires community than many would like to admit to themselves.

There is something to be said for never needing to be in the same room as a toilet and the complete disregard and subsequent freedom the dual loss of control can grant.

In all honesty I’m tempted every day to pursue dual incontinence. Though, at least as of now I think it would be a bigger burden than benefit. This is mostly do the social taboos and practicality of clean up with one functional arm/hand.

The fact remains however that it is still a secondary but very real part of my own dysphoria. It is also a fact that my own vowel health would likely benefit from it, having iBS, delayed gastric emptying and a few other GI issues, attempted dual in continence would likely help everything from regularity, to abdominal dissension and pain, to eliminating constipation and even help with nutrition absorption.

At leafy right now I don’t think it would be feasible on a purely physical level. Nonetheless it’s tempting and the potential benefits are real. I could also see it getting me the last 10% in terms of distraction and eliminating the neurogenic bladder (full bladder, huge voids;nerve damage) issues both giving me less distractions and less leaks.

If I had a job I could perform from home, eliminate the odor, have a consistent texture/composition that allowed for easy cleanup I would be very tempted to make the jump.

As of now- maybe, someday. I certainly don’t judge and can understand the dysphoria and benefits.

[What To Expect]

I completely agree with your term of a missing piece of a puzzle. Nothing more true than that. When I became urinary incontinent and wrapped my head around it there was that missing piece or need for bowel incontinence as well. 5 years later I started on that journey and have since never looked back and am much happier for it. 

It seems like it’s been forever! I’m so happy to see you’re still around and still active!

It certainly seems there is more to this incontinent desire than what is common knowledge. I’ve mentioned to others that a full doctoral dissertation could be written on the subject, and not begin to scratch the surface.

It’s of constant fascination of how similar this need is, and how it’s closest counterpart is that of identity, dysphoria, and dysmorphia.

I mentioned in this thread awhile back that my own dysphoria with incontinence was as strong as my gender dysphoria. That certainly has not changed and each has been its own puzzle piece. I do wonder if there is a difference though. It’s commonly accepted that gender identity and thus dysphoria is biological/organic in nature; to the point where it’s not even epigenetic. I do wonder if the incontinence dysphoria is more a function of environment, epigenetics and genetic predisposition. Similar to how DID, OSDD and the like present. I know that one theory had to do with separation issues before age 7 and likely before age 3.

I also find it interesting how common it is for people with this dysphoria to consistently distinguish between the need to identify/be incontinent and the reason to wear diapers.

For me diapers have always been a means to an end. I’ve always thought of my dysphoria as “I want/need to be seen, live, and meant to be incontinent. Diapers are a way to deal with, manage, and represent that incontinence. This identity and thus the physical representation is more important than the actual tactile and emotional comfort the object that is a diaper brings me. Diapers are as much practical as they are a sense of comfort and security.

Both are there, but the object is in service to the dysphoria”.

I too think this has been a drive over most of my life (until I obtained it through the natural course of my health) to achieve incontinence, and why “just wearing 24/7” was never good enough. The psychological impact of control or the lack there of and the physical sensations of the body just were not present.

This of course goes against the fetishized depiction of diapers as an object and the paraphilia of infantilism. Sex is bound to interact with all of this but does not seem to be the source of the dysphoria and missing puzzle piece. It’s the equivalent of cross dressing and wearing feminine clothes as an expression of gender identity. Sure the outcome might appear similar but the root motivation is completely different.

[24/7 startups, and unexpected pitfalls?]

Quick note on the Rearz Elite diapers, and on larger diapers in general. First off, I'm very impressed with this diaper; I've had it on since last night at about 10 PM, and it's 2:15 PM right now, and while this thing is heavy, it seems to be coping very well. It actually feels like I'm sitting on a lumpy, damp cushion - most other diapers I've worn, at this point, would leak under pressure. I have worn these before but I've been belted into my office today more or less all day, attending to work issues, and I haven't really gotten up, so this has taken everything I've given it in essentially one position. 
Second, I mused about going to buy some more compression garments, and I will do that when I get a chance, but I also wanted to point out that maybe I've become more careless during the pandemic, but, over the last few days, I've worn some fairly big diapers under over-sized cargo shorts, without anything else on them, including this now-quite-swollen Elite, and I have operated around my house and in the yard seemingly without detection, relying on a large t-shirt to assist in blending the edges of my figure. I would still want some additional "support" for leaving the house in a big plastic diaper, but... I wonder if I overestimated how noticeable what I have on "down under" is. 

And also don’t forget that your default shape has also changed. By this I mean what people expect your body to look like in shorts etc. it’s one of the paradoxical benefits of wearing 24/7.

Now, yeah it might look a bit swollen down there but the comparison being made is not to you without a diaper but rather with a diaper.

I Honestly believe after extended 24/7 anyone risk of something “looking off” is just as present if one suddenly stopped wearing than with something more bulky.

The fact is that the bulk of the diaper has become the default body shape for those around you.

[Strange days indeed - a 24 x 7 experiment]

When it comes to the wing issue I have found that pulling the wings up and folding them over can do the trick.

Compression pants like the Gary wear active brief or even a onesie can help. These seem to be more with restricting movement than weight for the wing issue.

Also, I’ve found the frog leg position for taping helps here, both standing and lying. This seems to be due to the the muscle tone being lax, allowing for a snug fit around the thighs

For tapes, I’ve found that keeping them straight rather than the traditional angled up or down can help.

Playing around with how much of the diaper is in front vs in back can help as it changes the landing zone and where the wings cross the thighs. Each person and diaper is different so this last part is trial and error.

As for the issues with position of flow. YES! My solutions thus far have been all the adjustments previously discussed, boosters, and then specific combos of compression shorts, onesies, plastic pants, terry lined pants and switching up what positions I change (typically change laying down for lounging/sleeping/slouching and standing for the rest).

I do certainly tend to find myself on my back when I wake up, even though I fall asleep on my side. I agree that the habits come into the night.

I also find myself almost automatically changing body positions in the middle of a flow to adjust to the direction and absorption behavior. I mentioned awhile back, and on my own thread as well that I tend to have certain positions I hold my body that are prone to leaking but are not likely to change. It’s mostly these that I notice I’m subtly changing positions, likely because there is still some intentional subconscious awareness there.

These types of conversations make me wonder if the incontinent community discusses and troubleshoots in the same way or if the conversation is avoided completely. I would bet on the latter, which is a shame as it could really improve quality of life.

Since my rapid decline of control over the past year I found myself reaching out to venders and manufacturers of incontinence products asking about solutions for many of my issues. I was honestly kind of shocked of how little consideration was taken into account. It seems products are being manufactured for mostly the institutionalized in mind, even the higher end products.

There appears to be a lack of innovation and consideration from the design, use, manufacturing, and lifestyle. Pretty much all the way through.

It’s still not understood the need for high absorption rate due to various bladder behavior that ebbs and flows. Nor that additional capacity is not about max capacity and wearing a diaper for 24+ hours but rather comfort, confidence, and skin health. Diaper sag, retaping, a three tape system for limited mobility, none of it really considered. I’ve tried finding for instance a onesie that has a scoop neck and could act as a camisole and not a single product seems to exist. Adult diaper bags that can double as briefcase, backpack, laptop bag, purse are really nowhere to be found.

All of this makes me think that the market relationship is still in its infancy due to the taboo nature of incontinence as a fairly common and variable health issue. I imagine that most retailers and manufacturers are still not in touch with the actual needs of their target market and people just settle.

Then again maybe my gripes are in the minority, and mixed incontinence that requires management through diapers is actually really rare in the population that is still leading an otherwise active lifestyle.

Grumble grumble.

[What To Expect]

One other observation.

It seems that for those that make it one year or more of 24/7/365 with or without the intention of becoming incontinent either don’t stop, or if they do, it’s as a last resort. There appears to be a never ending pull back to 24/7 for the vast majority of these individuals.

The theme of identity, dysphoria, dysmorphia etc comes up over and over again. This doesn’t get acknowledged enough in my opinion. In my opinion if you’re still wearing a year later and enjoying that aspect of your life the majority of the time, that need (need intentionally used) is not going away, the need is deep rooted and a part of who you are. You can be quite confident that it’s the right thing for you if you’ve gone 12+ months.

I know this may be a bit controversial as some are drawn to 24/7 in their most difficult times and can be misconstrued for some sort of vice. I do not believe this to be a character flaw, but rather a coping mechanism, a tool, a missing piece of the puzzle. It’s for these reasons and more that some are drawn to 24/7 during low points in their life. It’s also I believe a reason why some who decide to go 24/7 end up thriving. Not only do they overcome the difficulties during that period but their baseline level of happiness is much higher, both during those difficult times and future good and bad times. Much like relieving dysphoria due to something else it can free up resources for resilience, grit, and improve your overall quality of life.

[What To Expect]

Wow, it really has been quite a ride for you!  Aside from all of the other pathologies, it was reassuring that you were able to re-train when you needed to but slightly less reassuring that your re-training fled before competing priorities.
Thank you for the detailed update.

Certainly! I’m not quite sure what you mean about my re-training fled before other priorities. Do you care to elaborate?

I am fairly certain that the methods laid out here and elsewhere can lead to in continence for just about anyone. As I’ve eluded to I consider this to be in large part of which neural patterns get triggered and are dominant.

I also firmly believe, and have seen on myself and others that it’s likely possible to retrain at least mostly. From those that I know that have tried it takes just as much effort as training for incontinence. This re-training is also most often not 100% and prone to relapse under certain common stresses and conditions.

Both directions of training seem to be exponentially more difficult than originala potty training. There tends to be irreversible physical changes that do occur and can only be compensated for through creating other habits.

It has additionally been reported that once retrained, any extended diaper usage (more than 5 days) takes effort to come back from. Any additional un training becomes much more effective and at a much faster clip. Conversely, returning to being non diapered becomes much more difficult each time.

I want to contextualize this as, even though I have multiple complicating issues that have led me to where I am, I know personally of at least 3 others who have ended up with permanent loss of control, despite best attempts to retrain. This leads me to conclude I may have ended up in a similar situation had my return to diapers been voluntary and there are both neurological and physiological mechanisms at play here that can be decoupled from any of my own complicating and confounding variables.

On this last note it also appears that any Comorbidities that can affect the predictive value of obtaining incontinence in one’s lifetime whether temporarily (such as medication side effect) or permanent are much more likely to have a causal link that could not otherwise be controlled for.

All of this to say
If you play this game you’re likely able to come back, mostly, at least once, but also more likely to return later in life in ways not of your own volition.

[Strange days indeed - a 24 x 7 experiment]

Yes, it seems that there are always "surprises" with nappies.  They're certainly a lot less frequent now that I know how to manage them effectively and also probably because the way I use them has shifted over time but the odd surprise still lurks.
Because of those surprises, and because I use a gaming chair (excellent lumbar support) which is made from PVC which can be sweaty, my chair is lined with an old towel.  My leather chair proved comfy only for the first month or lock-down before I succumbed to massive lower back pain.  I was advised by others to switch to a high quality gaming chair (Omen) despite never having touched "Call of Duty" and yea, it is good, especially the lumbar support, but PVC.  At least I only have to wash the towel.  Or burn it.

Over the years I’ve been trying to find out the reasons for these surprises. Here’s what I’ve found.

The wings somehow slip, allowing extra room in the leg gathering. Can occur with tossing/turning, tapes not tight enough, friction from other surface, and tape placement.

I’m in a weird position- difficult to combat. Reclined positions in anything except a brand new diaper has exceptional odds on this.

A quick/lazy change that is either too tight, too loose, or lopsided. This seems to be an issue with high capacity low absorption rate diapers and the most frequent occurrence.


The more obvious ones like gravity, and capacity issues are given. For this and the previous reason I have started to have a changing schedule as more and more I can’t really tell how much capacity I’ve used/is left.

As a result I’ve changed to a lower quality premium diaper, along side a booster. This has been a mentality shift in diaper use. From the “must use every fiber of the pulp”, to the normalization and wanting the diapers to stay in the background. One less thing to keep track of and worrying about leaks. Trusting in a different way. Likely this also has to do with small voiding that is the norm more and more now. Any flooding is a surprise now.

I’ve also found that there are times where I’m drinking tons of water but hardly peeing anything. The diaper has capacity but the skin and ammonia tells a different story. The diaper that is barely used has become part of the price, several times a week in order to run on autopilot.

I’ll keep working on the lopsided and quick changes. Intentional practice at this point. This I imagine is an issue unique to me, as physical limitations will inevitably lead to some lopsidedness and overly quick changes. Just learning to combat and mitigate it.

I’ve also definitely noticed more leaks during changes. Enough that I’ve started carrying a terry towel to grab the leaked urine that inevitably lands in my Gary wear actives.

Seems like different challenges during different stages. I can imagine at several more years many of these will remain issues, and is par for the course. I also likely expect that I’ll have s different methods, evolved techniques and more products.

I’ve noticed a “stash” that is becoming a thing as having the right diaper and tools to match the occasion, including the more infrequent but inevitable ones are coming into play.

I suppose that is another piece of advice for going 24/7. Practice those rare occasions if only so not to become rusty. I have a handful of “worst case” scenarios I practice. If I can navigate those calmly I know I can stick with it through anything. Which has no because a non choice.

I’ll also add as a separate note that people don’t really care. I have about a half dozen people in my life that need to know for various reasons, on the high end but can’t be avoided. Every one has just looked at it like a medical issue and this is the best tool to use for me.

I’ll use some of these people on occasion to double check odor blindness, clothes fits etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Strange days indeed - a 24 x 7 experiment]

Yes, isn't it just a lovely way to spend nights in bed (not)...
It might be the pandemic directly or the maybe the threat to my employment it imposes and associated financial pressure but I don't think it's the nappies themselves.  Before I went 24/7 in nappies, nights worked this way:

• 11pm: go to bed
• Midnight: fall asleep (hopefully)
• 4:30am get woken by bladder, try to pretend I don't need to get up and doze fitfully if at all
• 6am: give up and go to bathroom
• 6:05am: forget about sleep, I've already gotten up and my body thinks we are done for sleep now

After going 24/7 in nappies (and BEFORE) the pandemic, my sleep patterns morphed to:

• 11pm: go to bed
• Midnight: fall asleep (hopefully)
• Midnight - 6am: intermittently rouse/wet/sleep and sometimes just wet/sleep, who knows...
• 6am: awake in wet nappy with empty bladder and consider if I need to get up or not.  If not, doze

That wasn't bad.  Back in my "yoof", I was definitely the night shift guy.  I used to code for fun as a teenager (Z-80 assembler).  With other nerd-friends, we'd have coding parties that would start at about 9pm and finish around 5am - working 9 - 5 I guess, just the wrong 9 - 5.
It's 2pm here and I could happily fall asleep here at my desk it seems...

That seems about right to me. Here I am at 1:00am. Been trying to get to sleep for two hours after going to bed “early” around 9:00pm and sleeping hard for a full cycle.

All of this makes me wonder the interplay of vasopressin and circadian rhythms that we are changing after age 5 with introducing nocturnal enuresis.


Then again this phone I’m typing on and ignoring good sleep hygiene of pulling myself out of bed and into another room probably has a larger affect so....

[Strange days indeed - a 24 x 7 experiment]

Alcohol before bed in any quantity is a strong predictor for "waking up wet" with no recollection but it's not 100%.  Strangely enough, it does not seem to immediately influence the quantity of pee though.  I'm mystified as to how I can drink 4 beers, follow it by a few glasses of red (big night) and although I will often wake up wet, the truly soaking nappies don't really appear until well into the next day.
My sleep patterns remain dreadful and I'm now officially concerned about this.  Irrespective of alcohol consumption (I will try to remain alcohol-free for at least Mon-Thu) or water consumption, my pattern is now:

• 11pm: go to bed
• Midnight: fall asleep (hopefully)
• 3am: wake up, toss, turn, get annoyed
• 5am: fall back asleep
• 6am: get woken by wife's alarm
• 6:15am: fall asleep like a drunk
• 7:45am: drag myself out of bed, wishing I could just stay there and sleep until 11am

I'm not sure if this is an ongoing low level pandemic anxiety thing or my ongoing employment instability (my employer is still "considering" our job re-applications) but I'm thinking of mentioning it to my GP on my next routine checkup  (August).  My days are starting to fill with a grey fog and that fog is behind my eyeballs, not in front of them...

I had to laugh, or at least I didn’t have a choice with your schedule description. Both your schedule and suspicions regarding the pandemic anxiety and it’s affects on sleep quality are something I could have written myself.

With that in mind, I wonder if it’s a combo of sleep habit, this hobby of ours, and the anxiety of the current pandemic? I know that if left to my own vices I would be a 2nd shift girl. Working from 9-11pm and sleeping from 2-11ish. With a small break between first and second sleep around 5-7 am. I’ve always had this preferred schedule, both on terms of polyphasic and sleep schedule. I can feel just as rested with 6-7 hours of sleep during this time as I can 9-10 hours in a 9pm-6:00am window. I doubt this has any correlation with any bladder symptoms but who knows.

[Strange days indeed - a 24 x 7 experiment]

This happens to me occasionally, but not all the time. I find that if I hit that sweet spot of distraction where I've gotten caught up in something - usually work, but maybe it's a movie, or making beer - and I more or less forget my nappy, but I don't forget to use my nappy, then I will arrive at a point, particularly if I am off my normal change schedule, where I have to probe the exterior of the nappy in an attempt to determine how much it's been used. Whereas if I get really pulled into something, usually something bad and work related, then I'll stop using my diaper for 30 or 45 minutes, which is a "too distracted" point that results in a sudden uncomfortable urgency and then a deluge that raises the odds of precipitating a wardrobe failure. 
Perfection for me is the ephemeral state of having forgotten, or at least entirely gotten used to, having a diaper on, and dribbling happily into it thoughtlessly but faithfully and regularly, and then getting tapped on the shoulder hours later by the diaper's subtly increasing intrusion into my ability to pull my thighs together, or by its pendulous weightiness. To me, that's wearing diapers in their natural state, with no imposed "artificiality" or constraints. If I could forget about peeing entirely, that would be great, but I'm willing to accept my current requirement to press "go" on the process, but not attend to it at all afterwards, in exchange for being able to still wield executive power over that department when required. 

Have you been able to correlate that proffered state with fluid intake, caffeine, alcohol etc?

I’ve found that not having enough water, or too much can result in the 30-45 min periods you mention. I’ve also found that sleep quality can affect things at night as well. Too much or too little water in either a very light or ver deep sleep. I’m far more likely to wake up to a dull ache with too little water and a night of insomnia followed by the last couple hours being really deep sleep. My guess is hormonal patterns are wonky during these nights but who knows.

[Low Frequency Hypnosis]

Thank you for the AMAZINGLY informative response!

You are most welcome! I’m glad I was able to share some obscure knowledge and have it be useful.

I would suggest looking at isochronic tones in combination with , say ocean waves. You could use this in combination with a subliminal version of a hypnosis track (in conjunction with regular use) at night, or during the day at different wavelengths that would encourage flow states, amongst others.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isochronic_tones

It might be the closest to what you’re trying to achieve.

[Low Frequency Hypnosis]

I don’t think this would work. Infrasound is outside the human ears ability to hear. The theory behind say subliminal hypnosis is that the ears and the brain can hear the audio, just not at a conscious level. Therefore it bypasses the conscious firewalls and affects the mind at the subconscious.

My understanding of why there is a physical reaction is the sound waves themselves traveling through the body. The thing is you need speakers both powerful enough and capable of hitting these low frequencies at sufficient levels to create sound waves that affect the body on a physical level.

The effect, if done correctly should be uncomfortable and unsettling. I doubt the effect is there if you’re able to sleep through it peacefully. Even then it’s a physical reaction not a psychological one. That is the physical sensations release cortisol via the autonomic nervous system without permission from the brain. The brain does get notified via the ANS connection with the brain, but is not in control/initiating the change in hormones.

See or rather hear...

https://www.kcrw.com/culture/shows/here-be-monsters/terrible-resonance-live-show-announcement

[Looking for an objective voice in a relationship issue.]

[mention]rosalie.bent [/mention] Given the motivation of needing to be a caregiver rather than cared for, do you have any suggestions here? I recall a recent newsletter from you mentioning a new book that focused on the caregiver perspective, but it seems like it’s target audience was women/wives. Could the lessons apply here?

[mention]Findingacceptance [/mention] I’m wondering if coming at this from a different perspective might be helpful. The first thing that comes to mind is a discussion and exploration between the two of you about the five love languages. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Love_Languages#Summary

This would achieve an understanding of how each of you prefers to express and receive love, and why. If there is overlap in the acts of service and touch that may be the first step for some common ground.

This can also give you some insight on why you are driven to the caregiver/big role. Is it rooted in the abdl lifestyle or is the abdl lifestyle the most familiar framework to express your love languages; which seem to be acts of service and touch.

The underlying goal here is to see if the act of caring/service/touch can be decoupled from and expressed/fulfilled in ways that meet your needs and is not just tolerated but welcomed by your wife.


It may be the case that no, it can’t. Coupling is (in my opinion) a very undervalued concept for seeing, and navigating the world. It may be that the root of your drive is tightly coupled with the abdl lifestyle, or in the realm of a D/s dynamic, either of which is really good information for you and your wife.

We suck at communicating with anyone but ourselves, and kinda suck at even understanding our own motivations (at least for me this is true throughout every interaction and aspect of my life).

My hope is that through this exploration it can give you both clarity, frameworks, and options. I am in no way invalidating you’re need to be a caregiver/big etc. and I do not assume to know how much of this role is tied to love languages vs relationship dynamics (D/s, bdsm etc ). I do however believe that those questions need be found in order to move forward.

I also agree with others here that both of you have the inherent right to be authentic, be and express yourself, and not be in shame of who you are and what/how you love. Love and relationships take energy, time, work, and constant growth and refinement of the so many tools. From empathy, communication, and sacrifice, to gifts of love that the other person wants and needs. It’s about finding that line in the sand, nudging it this way and that. It’s about truly understanding what you need and can live without, what you can give vs not give up. Love and a healthy relationship should be about meeting your partner where they are at, and meet their needs without sacrificing your own. Respecting boundaries, agency, and the person. Building something together that is more than the sum of it’s parts, not looking for someone to make you whole, you need to and are the only one that can do that. Rather it’s about to wholes coming together. 1+1=3

[24/7 startups, and unexpected pitfalls?]

Good to know, thanks Sherri!

I know it’s been said countless times, but I’ll say it again. No one notices or attributes the sound of the plastic crinkle to you or a diaper. I had to work on this one. In the end it took realizing, and then paying attention to the fact that all clothes make sounds and rustling is high up in the common ones for both men and women’s clothing. If I might suggest and exercise, next time you’re around others try to hear the sound of their clothes as they move. You may find at first you can’t hear anything, and that’s fairly normal. You may need to wait until it’s dead silent with no background noise. Try this same thing on a walk, at a store, working out, doing chores, etc.

I came to realize yes, diapers make noise, but so do the vast majority of clothes. I also came to realize that I both tuned out the sound of my own clothes and everyone else’s, and that I could rarely hear clothes of others in dead silence at more than a two feet apart and basically never if further or literally any type of background noise was present.

[What To Expect]

[mention=16278]BlakeJordan[/mention] not so much "resurrecting" this thread but giving it a slight poke (albeit at your invitation on another thread).  It hasn't been dead for that long [emoji846]
I never started my 24/7 journey with the explicitly thought-through objective of becoming incontinent (or at least dependent) but, 18 months later, there are signs that this might be happening.
I'm curious, and it isn't that obvious to me  from previous (recent) posts, what is your continence status today?  If you are incontinent, how much so and how are you managing?  If you are continent, did you have to recover that and how did that work for you?

It’s Alliiiive! Well at least active, somewhat, maybe?

Thanks for poking this thread of thought.

The short answer to the question of “am I incontinent” is in part at least, at all times, and most of the time I’m mostly incontinent.

As convoluted as this sounds it is fairly accurate and I’ll try to explain.

I’m also open to a discussion with you, or anyone else that might be reading. Perhaps an AMA to kick off the discussion. I’ve been thinking a lot about this journey, and my life’s own journey and have considered revisiting the narrative. Even thought up a title, “There and back again... a tale of identity”

I started with the title for my explanation as it’s been a long and winding road I’ve found myself on. I started in 2011-12 on this journey, and eventually made it there within a couple of years. At that first peak I wet the bed every night, had limited awareness and permission during the day, and when tested I could not hold a full bladder. By the time my bladder was 1/3 max capacity I was leaking small drops while doing the potty dance. My stream was about 1/5 of normal, and despite my best efforts I could not fully empty my bladder, and would have small drips for up to 10 minutes after voiding.

During this initial run, my bladder sensation also markedly decreased. At the time I assumed this was simply due to conditioning. During testing when a catch was used to fill up my bladder, I only felt it at 95% capacity, normally I believe it should be felt at 20%. This eventually led to a neurogenic bladder, and the lack of sensation never came back, and has actually decreased.

I did end up retraining in 2015, following a therapeutic manual my doctor gave me. This took intentional practice, and about 18 months before the phantom wetting stopped. When I first started retraining I could hold for about 20 minutes before the pee dance started, and max of 30 min before a the dripping became a very slow start/stop bursts of stream. I would guess this is because the sensation issue I mentioned above, and the inability to not completely empty the bladder. Basically my guess is that I hit 95% capacity. Within 20 min I was at 100% capacity and when I voided, it went down to about 20-30% capacity.

Before I started wearing again, I would flip between needing to go every 90 min (max training I was able to extend it to) and 6+ hours. There have been numerous times in the hospital, either due to seizures, post surgery, or autonomic dysfunction that I was unable to release my bladder and needed to be cathed either intermittently or continuously.

As for bed wetting, it took a couple years to stop after I attempted to retrain. I also had to highly modify my sleep routine, limit fluids caffeine, diuretics etc. at it’s best I woke up 3-4,x a night, and was able to get back to sleep fairly quickly. On average I would be able to ignore 1-2 of these wake up calls, and on average was getting up 2-3x a night.

At worst I was up 4-5x a night, went months with low quality disrupted sleep, and when my autonomic dysfunction started I would be up for 2/3 of the night, as I had to up my water intake (issues controlling electrolyte balance), and would get adrenaline surges (like waking up from a bad nightmare) every time I would get out of bed, hence being up for 2/3 of the night.

I will disclose that many of these issues were a direct cause from non non incontinent related health issues that would have likely presented one way or the other. It was the extreme ongoing unexplained vertigo that lasted for years that originally led me to retrain, as I needed to eliminate the possibility that the conditioning was somehow affecting other systems in the body, and that the incontinence was not being caused by something else... which on retrospect was true for the former, and partially false for the latter.

After retaining completed to my satisfaction, I went a couple years without diapers- too much else on my plate. I’ve never felt comfortable enough to go without a mattress protector, and it took several years to trust a nap would not cause an issue. The neurogenic bladder, the restless nights, the autonomic dysfunction, the systemic small fiber neuropathy, the incomplete voiding, and reduced bladder sensations (now believers to be ongoing nerve damage) never went away and have continued to get worse.

So... where am I now?
How I got in diapers. When my autonomic dysfunction got to it’s worse beginning in Q1 of last year pretty much all of body systems we’re screwed up. I was constantly in overdrive from a physiological aspect. My adrenaline and cortisol levels were highly elevated 24 hours a day, in spite of medical intervention, the nerve damage and spinal cord deterioration was continuing, I often could not stand up due to blood pressure drops. Basically my conscious waking state was that of constant hyper vigilance, anything not requiring attention to stay alive was irrelevant. Within two weeks the control of my bladder (in both directions) went from the retrained level I described to a mix of severe neurogenic symptoms, and the incontinence presentation I had achieved in the early 2010’s. It was like a light switch both on how quickly I lost control and the rapid flipping between neurogenic symptoms and what we typically think of as incontinence.

Around day 5, I resupplied, knowing what I needed to manage these symptoms. A couple of weeks later, I was admitted to the hospital. My mom found me paralyzed, unable to walk, unable to talk, unable to move a finger. She was dropping off food, unexpectedly, on her way to a Mother’s Day weekend.

This hospital environment is where I would remain in one capacity or another for the next 90 days. In this time period last summer, I was transferred to 12-15 hospitals, clinics, care facilities, and mental health wards, both in my state and in others. Around day 70 I started to gain some more control over the bladder, it started feeling “normal”ish. I remained out of diapers for about 3 months, though needing to be cathed every so often for the next week. This was correlated with a severe cold and pneumonia, along with a positive latent tb test, that kept me in isolation for two weeks.

It was around this time that I started to really notice I was missing time, and my memory was fucked. This is believed to be caused by the ECT that was administered a few weeks earlier, causing both short and long term memory loss including episodic and non episodic memory loss, both retrograde and anteriorgrade. This was originally administered to treat the intermittent paralysis, which was “catatonia like” enough to be used as the primary treatment over the course of six weeks, I had 13 sessions.

I’ll note here than besides a few flashes, all of 2019 was erased, along with episodic and non Episodic memories from throughout the rest of my life. It has been since determined that this is likely to be permanent and is a result of brain damage inflicted through ECT. I’ll also note that the freezing is believed to be due to a rare nerve conductive disease that affects the skeletal muscles. There also seems to be a strong correlation between the autonomic dysfunction/pots flares and the flares of the nerve disease. Likely upstream and indirectly related to neither, but acting as a still unknown trigger for both.

In any case, I started to notice I was losing time within hours of getting home from an out of state hospital, and as I didn’t feel safe I called in a crises team. This led to the pneumonia, and tb testing. What was intended as a medical certificate to move to a behavioral health facility due to the misinterpretation that I was not safe with myself and suicidal.

After getting out of both, returning home finally, I was able to sleep in my bed for the first time in over three months.

The episodic freezing continued into October and around Veterans Day the worst episode hit, putting me back in the ER, and ending up staying with my parents for the remainder of November.

For the month of September however I used diapers for functional in continence due to pots/blood pressure/mobility safety. For whatever reason my bladder flips to the neurogenic state during the freezing flares, and I couldn’t release my bladder even if I wanted to.

These freezing episodes last anywhere between a couple minutes to 12+ hours. For the month of November, when staying with my parents I was in a frozen state for about 18 hours a day, with anywhere from 3-30 minutes in between each episode. Enough to get to the restroom and back, as by 4-12 hours I definitely had a full sensation on my bladder. Nonetheless I had protection on at night, and a bed protector in place.

Around thanksgiving I finally started to become more stable, and although I was still freezing for 4-6 hours a day I was able to go home. Because of the unpredictable timing of the freezing episodes, and the ongoing pots and blood pressure issues, I started wearing 24/7 again as a form of functional incontinence, with the random wetting that was unnoticed starting within 24 hours. It was definitely more comfortable on my bladder, and safer for my kidneys if I could not get to the bathroom because I was unable to stand.

Sleep at this point was all over the place, and the diapers helped me get the sleep where I could without triggering a flare of adrenaline.

Since mid December I’ve continued wearing 24/7. I still have freezing episodes, I still have pots, but they are mostly manageable.


To bring this back to the question. I wet myself pretty much every time I sleep now, the exceptions being of when I have excess adrenaline or cortisol that tend to keep the bladder clenched tight all night, and vastly reduced urine output.

During the day, 70% of my voiding is either without consent or without knowledge. The only time I’m really in control is when I have my undivided attention on down there. More times than not if I bring my attention to whatever my bladder is doing about 40% of the time I notice a VERY slow flow. Whether that’s the new normal for “awareness/consent” or not, I’m not sure. The only time where I can achieve full control is if I’m drinking a ton of water, have just voided completely to the best of my ability, and am not diapered (airing out). My guess is it’s a combo of the bladder needing to refill before an urge hits, and since there’s been very little pressure for at least 20-30 min the signal is both sent and received. The other factor being that the sensation of not wearing, having airflow, coolness lack of pressure and actual visible dryness helped keep my attention on it as it’s not the more uncommon sensation. The longest I could hold, with dripping starting around 30 minutes was 45 minutes in this naked state.

I will also mention I tried a similar experiment and being clothed but no diaper. Essentially preparing myself to wet my pants. The first wetting was both consented to, and felt, but how much of that feeling was the dampness of the clothing vs actual bladder and urethra sensations is questionable. After that initial consenting wetting subsequent voids were less and less noticeable and by the time an hour passed and 4-6 voids had occurred it was a very similar experience to the “I know this happened because I let it, but I don’t have the full memory of the wetting” and the only real thing, after only an hour was when urine would collect on a different part of the chux/bed pad. I had an experience similar to what Dr Satler may have experienced I. Jurassic Park as the 2nd drop of water dropped down her hand in a visual explanation of ugh, chaos theory.

So how am I coping. I’m coming to terms with the knowledge that although this was likely to progress to this point and further due to underlying issues, I certainly helped it along both in years past and over the past year. Once I got that point of “well now this is just plain distracting, and not in the form of “informative and with enough warning and control to take action on” I helped things along, which admittedly I still am. I would like to eliminate the neurogenic aspects as much as possible at this point. That would definitely give me more options and flexibility of what to where, and when. It would also prolong the life of the diaper and save me money in the long run.

Changing while standing is still a pain the as for me. I really dislike changing in stalls. Also having the use of hand only to change means even under the best of circumstances it takes longer, and exponentially longer in a stall. It’s possible but very much a process and an order needs to be followed. For instance, I always need to pull out the disposal bag, open it up, and hang it on the bathroom stall door. Hopefully there are two hooks as my bag/purse needs to be accessible as well. Bending over can often lead to fainting.

These days I use a hook/loop/Velcro diaper when I’m out and about as a compromise in absorption, thinner profile, and of course the tapes. It usually takes me 2-4 tries in a stall to get the diaper to fit to the point I trust it. The first round is just to hold things in place so I’m not fighting gravity (in place of what a second hand would allow on a first attempt. I am very lean, no more than 135 lbs and if I wasn’t in a diaper I fit perfectly into a size 2 skinny jeans. The skinny being a factor as my thighs are quite small, and where I have the biggest issues with leaking. My left thigh is also only about 2/3 the size of my right so that’s also interesting. And of course the fit/manipulation of the tapes is very different using the same hand to rape both sides. Complete opposite line of approach.

I usually wear Gary active wear, and some sort of onesie type garment. I have multiple compression garments meant for surgical recovery I bought to help after a tummy tuck and BA. (Lost about 110 lbs over two years). I originally kept wearing them as it helped with pots/blood pressure/digestive issues/blood pooling etc and kept wearing when the incontinence reemerged.

I tend to drink about a gallon a day due to the pots stuff, so I often need a booster, or two so as not need a change after 90 min and not leak if I’m unable to move. Also you know, to stay feeling dry for longer and the benefits of wicking for skin health is underrated. I still have unexpected large voiding which are likely culprits for disastrous leaks, again still working on that. But yet another reason to use boosters beyond just increasing absorbency. A good booster can make a diaper that would not be able to handle a flood, more than capable. Given that there is very little difference in sensation between a full bladder void and a small 4-6 oz void I’m often surprised and caught off guard. This along with the requirement for high quality tapes necessities the need for premium diapers, which insurance doesn’t cover, so I’ve budgeted in the $350/mo as absolute requirements, the same as food, utilities, and mortgage.

As my control and awareness has slipped through my mind, like sands of time eroding the ability of the body and the body’s awareness of ability I have built in my routines. Changing based on time, rather than weight or fluid intake. That is, I will always change within an 90 min of waking up, usually around 7:30. I will always changed around 4:00, and then around 9:00. I will change before this if I notice fullness, weight, shape etc. or if I leak. Those times are my “safety zones” it leaves me with a buffer in either direction of up to 90 min in either direction. I’ve shifted from trying to maximize the use of every diaper to a routine I can set and forget.

For those times where I get caught in the middle of a timeframe I usually just use an xp5000, with a small booster if needed.

At night or if I’m lounging around, doing chores etc I will usually wear terry lined plastic pants. There’s been enough times where I get stuck not being able to change because I froze or hit a wall with pots and need to lay down for safety where the extra protection is wanted, if not always needed. I also find that keeping a slightly larger Gary activewear brief on helps with keeping things in place without construction of the diaper, and gives me the extra protection I need when doing anything physical.

Not sure if it’s me, but I find diapers leak in the darndest ways if I’m bending over, exercising, basically being active. While unpredictable the usual smaller Gary activewear I would use in a sedentary period seem to be a guaranteed leak, out of the Gary brief as well.

I do get frustrated with myself when I “knowingly” hold my body in a position that I’m prone to leak in, but do it anyway because it’s comfortable. I tend to for instance bend my left knee in while sitting in a reclining couch (as I’m doing now) slouching and stretching at the same time. I know there’s about a 1 in 4 chance it will cause a leak but honestly don’t care. There are way too many years of me holding that position/moving into it that unless I avoided it through hyper vigilance, I’ll end up in at at some point throughout the day.

I think that hints at a larger point, accepting, of not always embracing part of my identity is being incontinent, both for organic/physiological and psychological/body dysphoria reasons. As such I reluctantly have resigned myself to accepting leaks are going to happen and although I will continue to minimize them with new techniques, I’ll never be able to eliminate them, and that isn’t the goal. The goal is just to minimize their impact on my life. A good illustration of that is, because I know certain situations have a high probability of leaking, I tend to mitigate the impact by wearing the terry lines pants, and not being upset by the extra laundry or concerned that I’ve yet to be able to figure out how to consistently prevent leaks in that position out of the diapers.

I guess I now look at it as a system, with different tools for different situations. Yeah I’d prefer a one off solution but I’ll take and embrace a system that is adaptive and stop complaining when I use part of that system that I don’t particularly enjoy, but need.

The systems idea has allowed me to pivot from the need of constant attention to being able to intentional effort, design, maintenance, refinement and when things change, intentional practice. It’s allowed me to modulize, stress test etc. similar to a wardrobe, what you wear everyday you likely don’t think much of, yet can pick and choose for an occasion, and when you need to take a trip, you can custom tailer your wardrobe for the trip’s requirement. You don’t pay attention to what you’re wearing or what you will wear, it’s a system you’re simply used to using.

On the clothing that is one thing that’s taken me some extra time to figure out. Part of it is body dysmorphia, matching new outfits, paying attention to new things, and stop paying attention to others.

One change that is coming for my wardrobe for instance is so many more skirts and dresses. I’ve always liked them but they were always a small part of my wardrobe. When I first transitioned my body shape was that of a typical overweight guy, if not slightly androgynous in fat storage. Over the past few years however I definitely have a visible hour glass shape and, with the weight loss, I have a wide variety of easily accessible skirts and dresses to choose from.

I’m likely to stick with skirts due to the flexibility in getting the cloth out of the way while changing, but the general nature of either allows the diaper shape to be hidden, and even accent the female form. Now I know that this isn’t an option for those that present as male, but it still falls under how I’m handling things. We all know the double reality clothing and diapers holds for each of us.

The general consensus overall from my social circle has been “that sucks, I’m sorry, let me know if you need anything different when you’re over here”. Granted most of these people have known me as I’ve worn off and on over the years. And those that haven’t are used to me sharing my medical stuff as my weird and bizarre health issues are ever present, ever changing, and ever influencing my life and relationships. I’m pretty open with people about my health issues, my part of destigmatizing invisible and chronic illness. Yes I have health issues, no I’m not just a patient, but neither am I just member of the family, a friend, a coworker, an employee. I’m me, as messy and complicated as that is.

It’s hard to say what the impact will be day to day a decade from now. I think even in the world of medically incontinent it’s not a straightforward solution, answer, or system. What I can say is that i continence has played an underwhelming role in the impact of my day to day life, what I can or choose to do. Where and with whom I spend my time and work. Oddly enough none of the things I’ve mentioned in this extremely long post has had the largest impact in terms of consequences over the years. Out of all the crazy and weird health issues I have, extremely dry combined with extreme corneal nerve damage in my eyes has put more limits on every moment of every day than anything else. The embarrassment factor and taboo isn’t there, but all the consequences are. I am in extreme agony most days. Sometimes I can’t even open my eyes due to pain. It limits my screentime, being in front of a computer, being outdoors, being in too hot or cold environments. I have to play out what I can do in a day, how I can do them, what I need to do them. If I push things too much I end up with what feels like an ice pick through my eye constantly, for weeks at a time. It’s funny no one ever tells you the biggest impacts to your life are the ones no one has any clue about, would notice even if they were looking for it, and if you point it out to them, they listen, shrug and answer with “whatever, that sucks, I’m sorry”. Not caring nor wanting to know more, and only given it the time of day because it affects someone they know, they love, and they care for. It’s also funny that they too have their own invisible challenge they “think and know” will get out, no one will understand and they will be judged and “everyone” is going to laugh at them.... unless “everyone” is simply living in their own world, where fear of being laughed at and judged in front and center in their mind”.

And so it goes..and So. It. Goes.

[12 Month Diaper Program]

A quick look at the PDF in suggestion makes me believe that the PDF was generated on or around June 2004 (consistent with its authorship claim) and using software tools of a version age-appropriate for this era (Old Ghostscript running on an old version of Windows).  I suspect the document author name data in the PDF to be spoofed indicating that the author had IT savvy or knew somebody who did.  People didn't do that well covering their tracks back then.  I guess it's possible that the text was taken from another document but it would have to have been misattributed.   
There WAS a domain "alwaysdiapered.com" but I can only find evidence from 2012 and it would appear to have been suspended that same year.  [mention=27920]Little Christine[/mention] may know more since her footprints were on that site.
I guess I could dig further but if the guy wants to be anonymous, I respect that.  Enough to say that I think "alwaysdiapered" wrote it and did so in 2004.
 

Perhaps it’s best to let the mystery remain. The way I look at it, they are still out there, and don’t want to be part of the conversation for reasons unknown. It could be they one day changed their minds, saw it was not a cue all, have made this a different part of their life, no longer active in the community, or is no longer with us.

The one constant we have is their work. They made a huge impact. I, back in the day was one of the early contributors to build on the work. There are several of us around and many come and go, and come again, sometimes lurking, other times collaborating.

My thread is still here, as is MDL’s. If you ever want to check out either they are still worth the read. I was one of the first to document my progress in a thread I had hoped to simply get an answer to “What to expect”. It ended up being a deep exploration and refinement of techniques with my partner in crime- [mention]mahleedl [/mention]

I don’t think it’s uncommon to further the work, nudge a subject towards enlightenment and go in peace. After all it was the search for peace that’s starts us off on all of this. It’s never just about getting to the outcome. It’s the outcome getting to us, changing us as we change and grow. It’s about the nuance that gets lost in a guide. The questioning of what some would say is permanent harm. It’s about love and acceptance. About affirmations.

I only left diapers alone for close to two years. Before about this time last year when within 7 days my bladder control slipped through my fingers, never to fully return, and in the past six months I got to witness dependence as I am no longer able to really feel much of anything going on in the bladder. It’s a combination of things, but the biggest is systemic nerve damage that continues to spread, and autonomic dysfunction.

So yes, let the voices of the wisest amongst us rest if they need to be. Instead of a mystery, I suggest reaching out to those that cane after and continued the work, like myself and MDL. Resurrect those threads and ask what you want to know

[24/7 startups, and unexpected pitfalls?]

This is definitely the case for me. Practically all of my diaper dreams have been about my being away from the safety of home base, usually in my car, but occasionally in a public space, and I'm wearing just a diaper below the waist, something which, as an aside, has basically never happened - I've never ventured away from the house without something on over my diaper. The dream then forces me to expose myself for some good reason or other - once it was to retrieve a dog that had escaped from my car, once it was because I had to make sure I wasn't going to back over children - and I'm forced into a "Come to Jesus" moment where I have to give in to the prevalent circumstances and do the needful. I simply can't let the dog I'm babysitting escape across a busy parking lot, I simply can't reverse the car without checking behind it (even though in reality by car has a camera for that purpose...), etc. The one exception to that was when I went to city hall, in my dream, and seemed perfectly fine with walking about in a diaper, until I ran into my uncle, and suddenly made a dash for the door. 
I agree with both you, [mention=18701]oznl[/mention], and [mention=16278]BlakeJordan[/mention], that this constant hum of low-level pandemic anxiety probably has stoked the fires of my subconscious a bit. I'm also drinking a bit more than I used to, everyday having the feel of a Friday right now. It hasn't become problematic, but whereas I generally only imbibed on the weekend - not out of any moral objection to it, but just because of the caloric toll - now, there might be a Wednesday night one-that-turns-to-three event here and there. But given my preference for beers North of the 7% mark, three is a commitment. Or, I open a bottle of red, my wife has one glass, and I have the rest over the course of the evening. 
Speaking of my betrothed, she has been asking me for ideas for Father's Day gifts, and I think she's picturing something that falls under the category of brewing equipment, but, Rearz just launched their "Alpaca" diapers... hmmm... dare I suggest it? But, no. She's envisioning something that her and the girls can wrap up for me, and a case of printed diapers would not qualify. 
As an aside, she made a rather direct reference to my diapered status this morning; I had just finished my coffee-and-paper morning routine, and the next phase is always my trip to the loo, where I evaluate the fate of my overnight diaper, and spend some quality time with whatever science or automotive-themed magazine I have in there. Humans are creatures of habit, and I have witnessed this irrational behaviour in every member of my family - we all like to use whatever bathroom we like to use, which means that my daughters frequently squabble over their bathroom, and my wife and I both retreat to the one in our bedroom. Leaving two other bathrooms to collect dust. However, this morning, my wife had an appointment to get to, so when I plucked the business section from the paper and headed off for the stairs, she said "Hey, diaper boy, I need that washroom for a few minutes." The implication being that, clearly, I'm in a better position to wait than she is, which is unarguably true, although, as we've discussed before, I don't push my diapers into "that" service terribly often. 
In other related "news", the stores have all been open for a couple of weeks now, and the rush back has subsided, so people faced with entry lines that meander around the parking lot in the baking midday sun are now behaving rationally, IE, deciding that maybe they don't need a new barbecue scraper that badly. All of which means that I will probably go meandering through a super store in the next couple of days, and try and stock up on a couple of compression garments, to see if I can manage to wear bigger nappies under a wider range of circumstances with more confidence. I just have to work on devising a cover story, in case I run into one of my wife's friends, and I need to explain why I'm in the lingerie department, perusing items that would clearly be too large for her. Maybe I should ask my wife to get me THESE for Father's Day. I wonder if requesting women's underwear would go over better or worse than requesting a case of giant printed nappies....
 

I wouldn’t worry too much about being seen or judged in the lingerie section, or women’s clothing section in general. There are plenty of reasons to be there, and the sizes are close to each other for underwear. If you did run into another person you knew, you would have to intentionally flaunt the packaging, having it front and center, and facing the right way and then have them contextualizea the sizes, guessing the size of your wife, and you. Next they would need to contextualize the brand, the size, the fact that compression garments run smaller, have experience with all of that, and scrutinize the run in. Finally they would have to assume you’re purchasing it for yourself because you want to wear women’s underwear, and for some reason compression garments are your thing- rather than some sexy lingerie. Most women know compression garments aren’t usually found in the men’s section and you could be using it for yourself because you happen to need it and the women’s section has the best selection.

If everything went perfectly wrong, many men have interest in trying women’s clothing out of curiosity, kinks, pushing back against gender roles, self expression, etc etc. Up until a couple hundred years ago men and women of royalty dresses really similar, very frilly. Babies dresses similarly, pink was the boy’s color. Etc. and nowadays there is a slow revolt of the limitations of men’s clothing options and the inability to use clothing as a form of self expression, unless you really know what to look for (the small details in men’s suits for instance).

For that whole history I’d suggest checking out the podcast “articles of interest “ a 99% invisible podcast

https://99percentinvisible.org

And as for asking your wife? I think compression pants from the women’s section is much less taboo than asking for diapers. Heck she might even appreciate that you have an interest in discretion, and is likely to both know/understand your reasons for asking, know that no changes in nappy habits are coming, and know the availability of compression pants in store. (Not to mention the fit over a diaper of compression pants is much closer to women’s body shape than men’s).

Lastly, on the spectrum of kinks- women’s underwear is SUPER VANILLA!

But, that’s just my .02 cents. Your mileage may vary, but hopefully with compression pants, your diaper mileage during exercise and even day to day will be extended!