Fantasy, Desire, and Irreversible Reality

[Jacobs]

I’ll start off by saying that I had the surgery in Mexico and I’m one of the people who had been to India seeking the incontinence surgery, I’ve never been on here advertising our fetish. I don’t want to go into details about my outcome of whether I am incontinent or not. But I’ll be the first to actually come out and say this “I REGRET IT” It’s been the most painful and unsatisfying decision that I now have to live with. I think we actually have to come to the sobering reality that we are on the very bizarre side of the Internet and this fetish/desire to be incontinent is crossing the line. I’m sure there’s going to be the people coming after me saying well you’re in a fetish forum this is what it is. But the truth is this site is harming people. it fuels an unhealthy desire, there is no satisfaction or relief afterwards, reddy is now seeking surgery so he shits his pants, as we all cheer him on jerking ourselves off. This has to be evil. There can’t be any real justification. 

I think this post should include ways to address the disastrous mental health consequences associated with seeking surgical outcomes. 
 

I’m curious 🤨 if this post will be deleted I think people should have a reality check

[superabsorbantpolymer]

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I'm sorry to hear about your pain and regret. Do you mind sharing a bit more details about it? Like when did you have the surgery, what was painful, how have you recovered, are you incontinent now?

 

Are you regretting it because it didn't go well or because you don't like being incontinent?

[AngelO]

I understand your contribution. I think it's good that you express your concerns. One must clearly distinguish between a sexual fantasy and reality. This is often not said here and for many it sounds like a dream to be incontinent. But incontinence can be a real nightmare. I advise everyone who aspires to this goal to first have a stent implanted and thus experience incontinence in a reversible way. Presumably then this dream will end for many. I'm also not talking about DIY stents described here, which you can remove yourself. I'm talking about a stent that you can't remove yourself, because only then is it the same as real incontinence.

[Diapered Dave]

19 minutes ago, AngelO said:

>>> I advise everyone who aspires to this goal to first have a stent implanted and thus experience incontinence in a reversible way. Presumably then this dream will end for many. I'm also not talking about DIY stents described here, which you can remove yourself. I'm talking about a stent that you can't remove yourself, because only then is it the same as real incontinence. <<<

I think MANY people who read this forum WOULD choose to have a stent implanted first, for the reasons you stated.  The problem is finding a doctor who will do it. Do you know how to find one?

[Goerge]

Thats why I'm all for going to natural un-potty training way, you should at least live as a incontinent person for at least 6 months, you may find that you don't need the surgery at all and incontinence happens without drastic surgery. That may you will know how to deal with the issues associated with incontinence and its not going to be a huge shock. For some incontinence is a sexual fantasy but for me its a way off life.

[Bedwetterintraining2024]

I’d actually be interested in to hear more details. Just to listen and see a healthy perspective from someone on the other side. It’d extremely helpful to hear both sides of these stories from those who have had these surgeries. No judgement at all here. But I’d like you to share more please so people can make better more informed decisions @Jacobs

[BrownBobby]

11 hours ago, Jacobs said:

I’ll start off by saying that I had the surgery in Mexico and I’m one of the people who had been to India seeking the incontinence surgery, I’ve never been on here advertising our fetish. I don’t want to go into details about my outcome of whether I am incontinent or not. But I’ll be the first to actually come out and say this “I REGRET IT” It’s been the most painful and unsatisfying decision that I now have to live with.

I am sorry to hear it - truly. This part of your post, I genuinely have condolences for. It is the unlikely but very possible outcome of such things, and it's terrible that it has happened to anyone, including you.

Regret is an important consideration - and why I always have advocated for being really, absolutely sure whether or not you want to get it.  And also why I advocate for trying everything else first. (And, even, talking to mental health professionals beforehand if you possibly can to truly see if it will be beneficial to you - though I also understand people being reluctant to do so.)

I enjoy helping people become incontinent. Without fail, most people state they want to be "fully, totally, completely" incontinent, 24/7. That lasts until the first real 'hurdle.' "What happens when I go to work?" "What happens when I visit family?" "What happens when I leak without a change?" Reality asserts itself, and the desire usually gets better defined then. But a surprising number of people truly, genuinely want to be incontinent - those moments included.

Very unfortunately, there is more that you posted that is...less sympathetic.
 

11 hours ago, Jacobs said:

I think we actually have to come to the sobering reality that we are on the very bizarre side of the Internet and this fetish/desire to be incontinent is crossing the line. I’m sure there’s going to be the people coming after me saying well you’re in a fetish forum this is what it is.

I don't know how it's "sobering" to say we're on the "bizarre" side of the Internet.  If you argument is from morality, then 50 years ago, the idea of even having a place to talk about such things would have been considered a pipe dream at best. The realty is, for lots of topics that are taboo, the kinky and sexual corners of the world are where it lives before it can successfully find a foothold in public consciousness.  Hell, considering the idea of admitting non-heterosexual people even exist is a bridge too far for some people. Where else would you recommend people meet that share a desire like this?
 

11 hours ago, Jacobs said:

But the truth is this site is harming people. it fuels an unhealthy desire, there is no satisfaction or relief afterwards, reddy is now seeking surgery so he shits his pants, as we all cheer him on jerking ourselves off. This has to be evil. There can't be any real justification.

I think this post should include ways to address the disastrous mental health consequences associated with seeking surgical outcomes. 

IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE from my post, read this. THIS SITE SAVED MY LIFE. No, that is not hyperbole or an exaggeration. There very well may be people who are here only to get off.  More power to them.  They can do what they want, as grown adults, doing grown adult things.  But for me, this desire wasn't just a way to "make my peepee pokey." I've had it my entire life. I've tried just ignoring it.  Finding substitutes. Treating every other possible mental health issue. Meeting it halfway with temporary measures. None of them stopped that voice.  Not a single one.

And when that voice was loud enough...well, let's just say I'm glad to still be here, able to type this.

I've talked with dozens of professionals about this at this point. Urologists.  Physical therapists. Mental health professionals. I *tried* to do what you said - see it as an unhealthy desire. It failed.  Which is why I had multiple therapists write letters SUPPORTING me becoming incontinent. As in, in their professional opinion, that they were willing to tie their license and name to, they stated that me peeing my pants helplessly was something I should be work towards, after looking at everything else.

You were the one who wanted to "address disastrous mental health consequences associated with seeking surgical outcomes." Well, here's mine. My heart still beats and my pants are always wet thanks in very large part to finding this site and realizing both I wasn't alone in wanting this, and that it was possible to achieve.

 

11 hours ago, Jacobs said:

I’m curious 🤨 if this post will be deleted I think people should have a reality check

The refuge of those who "speak truth to power" when they're shouting at the mirror - "If people disagree with me, it's because they're the ones who are deluded. They want to silence me because I'm right - it's the only reason!"

Your post sounds less like an invitation to discuss the very real, very serious risks and consequences of seeking this, and more like...self-recrimination. You blame yourself for having done this. You feel guilt over the very real, horrible things that have happened to you. You wish that you never knew this path existed, because if it didn't, you can tell yourself you wouldn't have walked it. That you'd have not sought anything like it out.In all seriousness, you probably should seek a mental health professional, if you haven't already. This post isn't trying to warn people about surgery. It's trying to justify to yourself why a horrible thing happened.  And "The internet message board made me do it" isn't going to be a satisfying answer.

[Hannah YMS]

I agree with @BrownBobby on this.

I'm sorry you had a terrible outcome in pursuing incontinence, @Jacobs, but blaming this site for your decision is like blaming a newspaper for publishing an article that "compels" someone to perform an atrocious act. DD forums act as a space for those of us who need a small haven on the internet to discuss these things without getting pushed out.

I agree that both sides of a decision like this needs to be discussed. However, like minded folks will always find a place on the internet to converge into a safe space to discuss topics that are perceived to be harmful.

It sounds to me you regret more of the pain and complications from the surgery than the incontinence itself. It would help all of us if you would actually go into detail about your situation so that we too can learn from you. Without any details, we can't easily support you in your recovery nor can we understand why you think this side of the internet and these discussions are "evil". The real justification for most of us is paralleled by what @BrownBobby went through. This isn't something we can just "turn off". In my opinion, censorship is the real evil, and no one here wants that. So let's discuss this.

Perhaps you didn't think things through well enough, or talk to anyone regarding your desires, or didn't find alternate ways to achieve what you want. But blaming us for your unfortunate situation won't solve the problem. You're an adult. You made your decision. That's not on this site nor us.

I, too, would like to hear more about what you went through so that you can provide a cautionary tale so others on this forum have a better perspective of the risks involved with surgery. But if you choose not to share with us, this thread may waste away into the sands of time and be forgotten, ultimately proving to be unhelpful for all.

[jeremy12312]

New user, in shortly after a situation that caused a new sticky in this forum, attacking the purpose of this forum….

Has anyone seen this guy with that other guy in the same room?

[superabsorbantpolymer]

55 minutes ago, jeremy12312 said:

New user, in shortly after a situation that caused a new sticky in this forum, attacking the purpose of this forum….

Has anyone seen this guy with that other guy in the same room?

To be fair, @Reddy recently mentioned how he's been in contact with a guy who has had nasty complications from the surgery. Are you the same person? 

[oznl]

20 hours ago, Jacobs said:

I’m curious 🤨 if this post will be deleted I think people should have a reality check

I don’t know.  I’m not an admin.  It may well be deleted.  Here’s the problem statement as I see it:

If your story is true then that story would be an invaluable data point for those considering such an unusual and drastic step.

The thing is, you haven’t GIVEN your story.  What you have provided is a few of your opinions (claimed as axiomatic truth) and an unsubstantiated exhortation.  I think this falls foul of the posting rule designed prevent ideologically-driven naysayers from crushing discussion.

The one positive thing you’ve suggested is some reference for psychological support resources but that signal will likely be lost against the noise when you perjoratively dismissed the entire sub-forum as an evil, hormone-fuelled cheerleading squad.

If you were to provide a detailed, factual and objective summary of your story together with some thoughtful reflection upon where the misalignment between your actions and outcomes occurred, I would argue that this would carry your argument much more effectively.  I would also consider such a contribution to be a salutary one that people should consider when reaching their own conclusions about what would be best for them.

[keyman419]

20 hours ago, Jacobs said:

I’ll start off by saying that I had the surgery in Mexico and I’m one of the people who had been to India seeking the incontinence surgery, I’ve never been on here advertising our fetish. I don’t want to go into details about my outcome of whether I am incontinent or not. But I’ll be the first to actually come out and say this “I REGRET IT” It’s been the most painful and unsatisfying decision that I now have to live with.

I am terribly sorry you feel this way and have had a bad experience. At the end of the day you made the decision to do this and you will get through the outcome, albeit with changes in lifestyle now. If you weren't incontinent, what would be the purpose of the post or the title?? But we can't fully support you without further details of your outcome.

20 hours ago, Jacobs said:

But the truth is this site is harming people. it fuels an unhealthy desire, there is no satisfaction or relief afterwards, reddy is now seeking surgery so he shits his pants, as we all cheer him on jerking ourselves off. This has to be evil. There can’t be any real justification.

With all due respect, this site isn't harming anyone. Each person makes their own decisions and must do their own research, due diligence, and seek their own mental health preparations for any procedure whether it be a fetish or medical necessity. I had a body modification procedure 6 years ago that resulted in physical changes to my body and daily changes in activity that most would call a fetish procedure but I have no regrets. For some this could be a medical necessity. I believe very strongly with the comments made by @BrownBobby

Discussing "unhealthy desire, there is no satisfaction or relief afterwards" is strictly your opinion based on your personal situation. Judging @Reddy for his personal needs or desires is simply wrong and unwanted.

20 hours ago, Jacobs said:

I think this post should include ways to address the disastrous mental health consequences associated with seeking surgical outcomes. 

Again, this is from your perspective with your personal circumstances. Thank you for sharing but to give generalities with no real substance doesn't help the forum as a whole. I hope your pain and discomfort subsides quickly and you can continue with your new reality from the decisions you made. 

[Reddy]

5 hours ago, superabsorbantpolymer said:

To be fair, @Reddy recently mentioned how he's been in contact with a guy who has had nasty complications from the surgery. Are you the same person? 

It's not the same person

23 hours ago, Jacobs said:

I’ll start off by saying that I had the surgery in Mexico and I’m one of the people who had been to India seeking the incontinence surgery, I’ve never been on here advertising our fetish. I don’t want to go into details about my outcome of whether I am incontinent or not. But I’ll be the first to actually come out and say this “I REGRET IT” It’s been the most painful and unsatisfying decision that I now have to live with. I think we actually have to come to the sobering reality that we are on the very bizarre side of the Internet and this fetish/desire to be incontinent is crossing the line. I’m sure there’s going to be the people coming after me saying well you’re in a fetish forum this is what it is. But the truth is this site is harming people. it fuels an unhealthy desire, there is no satisfaction or relief afterwards, reddy is now seeking surgery so he shits his pants, as we all cheer him on jerking ourselves off. This has to be evil. There can’t be any real justification. 

I think this post should include ways to address the disastrous mental health consequences associated with seeking surgical outcomes. 
 

I’m curious 🤨 if this post will be deleted I think people should have a reality check

Hey bro if you've really been through this we should talk.  I'm sorry you're dealing with a painful and unsatisfying outcome.  I'm here if you want to vent about anything you've been through.

23 hours ago, Jacobs said:

 reddy is now seeking surgery so he shits his pants

This is SO true

[DAQ]

Other people ( @Reddy, @Hannah YMS, @keyman419, @oznl, @superabsorbantpolymer, @BrownBobby) have been too kind to you, and given you way too much benefit of the doubt. You are at best a disgruntled person who had fantasies vs needs and had no idea which was which because you jumped in on a whim and now projecting your self loathing on others. At worst you are a troll naysayer and/or preacher type who is looking for some credibility by saying that you have taken the most extreme steps towards incontinence. 

You got "the" surgery in Mexico? What was the procedure? Did you go to the same Dr. as everyone else? How long ago was the surgery? @Reddy I hope I am not giving up the goat here as it were, but, when did that Dr. move on? You have "been" to India "seeking the incontinence surgery". Which surgery were you looking for in india that you didn't get in Mexico? Why didn't you make phone calls or emails? I don't need personal details but if we are going to have a legitimate conversation we, as in the community, are going to need information and context.

So here is my statement and caveat for you:

IF and a giant IF you actually did this and regret it. I am sorry that you do. Hopefully you were seeing a good mental healthcare professional before undergoing surgery and will continue to see them now that you are having regrets. Statistically about 1% of people who transition (granted genders and not ability) regret it and wish to de transition. If you are part of that 1%, you pulled the short straw and I am sorry that it happened to you. It is also worth mentioning that virtually everyone who has documented their journey and actually achieves incontinence regrets it at some point for a time. I think it is the cognitive dissonance and self image re orienting and then the stages of grief for whomever one could be and then the final acceptance. 

That is the extent of nice DAQ. Stop here if you @Jacobs have had a good day. Otherwise I am going to drop some truth bombs on you.

Step 1. Pull your head out of your own diapered (allegedly) ass.

Step 2. Get out of here and take your sanctimonious crap with you. Your post is not a cautionary tail. It is the ramblings of a madman with an "THE END IS NEAR" sign. 

Step 3. Take better trolling lessons. As I said before, others may have given you the benefit of the doubt, but your phraseology to me strongly suggests that you are not part of this community. When it comes to incontinence, it is not a fetish, it is not a "desire", it is a deeply held belief. It is an identity. 

Step 4. Consider the opposite of your judgemental BS bolded statement. "I think this post should include ways to address the disastrous mental health consequences associated with seeking surgical outcomes". I think that this post should include ways to address the disastrous mental health consequences of an inability to achieve incontinence. Or perhaps meditate on the negative health consequences of not being able to discuss openly one's desires and needs. Or perhaps consider not being allowed to discuss this sort of thing. The worst thing that anyone ever can do is self censor..... unless they are a total asshole. On the other hand, you might consider self censoring. 

Frankly, I don't care if you were truthful or not, sincere or not, or if your post was in good faith. It is garbage. Absolute garbage that has no place here. Delete it and try again. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. If you want to spread your gospel of caution and introspection before taking permanent steps, that is an admirable sentiment and applaud it. You did not do that. You preached nothing but antipathy and judgement. I have judged you and found you wanting. You have made me a hypocrite and I hate it. 

For everyone else. I apologize for this post. I hope I have not put words in people's mouths. But until this forum has a legitimate and active moderator, I think it is up to the community to aggressively self moderate posts that are antithetical to the purpose of this forum. I am tired of people like this one this particular subforum. Frankly, the whole subforum should be pulled out of the incontinence umbrella. It invites way too many people that are struggling with their disability to poopoo all over people who NEED said disability to (ironically) feel whole

Sincerely DAQ's last post because I am sure I am about to get banned for telling an obvious troll to piss right off, pun intended. 

[Rattie]

For matters like these, I think it is important to have a level-headed, and honest discussion about the good, the bad, and the ugly (cue the film theme) sides of going through with a procedure like the one @Reddy had. I love how this site allows us to do this, so each and everyone of us can make an informed decision, on whether or not it is worth the risk. 

The problem with this post, is that is doesn't add anything of value to this conversation. It is a toothless rant, devoid of any useful information. It stands out as sore thumb, trying to scaremongering people into fearing the worst, without explaining why. That is not helpful.
For someone like me, who is dreaming about becoming incontinent, this post is noise at best. 

I can't say if this is a troll post or not. It is just striking how OP made their first (and only) entry less than 30 minutes after registering. I would have loved to hear their side of the story. If there is any, or maybe is was just all fabricated? 

 

[BrownBobby]

It is...unfortunately common, though less so these days at least...to have people come in here and drive-by stuff like this.

I always wonder what compels them to do it. Nothing made you come into this forum. Nothing made you have to engage in this way. What did they expect would happen? They'd drop their truth bomb and everyone would go "Oh, right! Yeah! Why didn't I see that before? I thought one way for years, but after your one forum post full of inflammatory language and vague examples, I've seen the light! I'm a changed person forever!"

Imagine the world where this comment was "Hey, everyone. Here's a less rosy example of how this can go, and I want to make sure I warn everyone about the far less fun outcomes of how it can go." Can even transition into the "is there something wrong with wanting this to begin with" towards the end if you want, and it might even land.

But posts like this...yeah. I stand by the "imagining they're speaking truth to power while yelling at the mirror" metaphor.

[DAQ]

42 minutes ago, BrownBobby said:

It is...unfortunately common, though less so these days at least...to have people come in here and drive-by stuff like this.

I always wonder what compels them to do it. Nothing made you come into this forum. Nothing made you have to engage in this way. What did they expect would happen? They'd drop their truth bomb and everyone would go "Oh, right! Yeah! Why didn't I see that before? I thought one way for years, but after your one forum post full of inflammatory language and vague examples, I've seen the light! I'm a changed person forever!"

Imagine the world where this comment was "Hey, everyone. Here's a less rosy example of how this can go, and I want to make sure I warn everyone about the far less fun outcomes of how it can go." Can even transition into the "is there something wrong with wanting this to begin with" towards the end if you want, and it might even land.

But posts like this...yeah. I stand by the "imagining they're speaking truth to power while yelling at the mirror" metaphor.

I think you are on to something. Some definite survivorship bias. How many people wanted, NEEDED incontinence and do something legitimately harmful because they cannot discuss it openly, or are not welcomed by those they share it with. We will never see their posts and therefore will never have any quantities to compare one to the other. I would like to image it is 100 to 1.

[BrownBobby]

5 hours ago, DAQ said:

I think you are on to something. Some definite survivorship bias. How many people wanted, NEEDED incontinence and do something legitimately harmful because they cannot discuss it openly, or are not welcomed by those they share it with. We will never see their posts and therefore will never have any quantities to compare one to the other. I would like to image it is 100 to 1.

These are not mutually exclusive categories, unfortunately. Part of why you’ll see me speak so much about not taking medications without a doctor’s advice is a very hard-learned lesson there.

Which is exactly why I *want* this to be an open and transparent dialogue. In the absence of peer reviewed research or case studies (though I’ve also helped start create those), were only left with messy anecdotal evidence. And the only way to make sense of it is to let everyone feel like they can bring it to light, when done so respectfully and in good faith. 

[jeremy12312]

 

6 hours ago, BrownBobby said:

I always wonder what compels them to do it.

A lot of the ex-ADISC group have a savior complex. 

[Jacobs]

For people who are interested and have messaged me I’ll reply when I can. I do have a really good therapist that has helped me thought this and he has experience with similar obsessions. For the people like me who lurk on here and who do find this desire distressing please reach out. 

[keyman419]

17 hours ago, DAQ said:

Other people ( @Reddy, @Hannah YMS, @keyman419, @oznl, @superabsorbantpolymer, @BrownBobby) have been too kind to you,

You have "been" to India "seeking the incontinence surgery". Which surgery were you looking for in india that you didn't get in Mexico? Why didn't you make phone calls or emails?

You said this very well. I too noticed the inconsistency of was it in India or in Mexico. Why didn't it get done in India??? I just didn't point it out as you did. I wanted to give some sense of compassion but I'm more convinced it isn't warranted. 

 

12 hours ago, Rattie said:

I can't say if this is a troll post or not. It is just striking how OP made their first (and only) entry less than 30 minutes after registering. I would have loved to hear their side of the story.

 

Great point and I fully agree.

 

17 hours ago, DAQ said:

Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. If you want to spread your gospel of caution and introspection before taking permanent steps, that is an admirable sentiment and applaud it. You did not do that. You preached nothing but antipathy and judgement. I have judged you and found you wanting. You have made me a hypocrite and I hate it. 

Exactly correct, he didn't do his own research or else a person would've never proceeded to this outcome. The truth remains that the OP alegedely called, scheduled, and went to have "the" surgery. If they didn't do their proper research and have the correct knowledge, why on earth would someone schedule a surgery with no understanding of the outcome?? Especially if they went to India and Mexico to get it done. This makes no sense to me either. 

[carsfan]

I think it's valid and better for the community  that people speak openly about their subjective experience in the matter. That said this website is not harming anyone.

[BrownBobby]

3 hours ago, Jacobs said:

For people who are interested and have messaged me I’ll reply when I can. I do have a really good therapist that has helped me thought this and he has experience with similar obsessions. For the people like me who lurk on here and who do find this desire distressing please reach out. 

I'm glad you have a therapist - they are truly handy no matter what path you take through any of this.

Though a word of caution to anyone - if any therapist tells you they can "cure" this, be incredibly cautious.  Manage or help temper, yes. Absolutely. But this particular category of thing has a rather established pattern of being VERY difficult to make disappear forever, if not impossible.

Regardless, get help if you'd like it - seriously. You'll never, ever hear me say otherwise. There's a reason I got buy-off from three therapists before getting my operation.

[spark]

Unfortunately, there is elements and people on this board who are acting dangerously like cult members.  You don't want to hear anything critical of seeking a complicated and dangerous medical procedure (it is, whether you agree with with it, or not).  Instead, you just want confirmation that you're correct.   When there is a post that is critical, of your idea, you immediately attack.   

IMO- and I'll probably be called a troll for this (obviously not the case, given my history on this board), but I  think there is element posting on this board that needs to take a hard look at their behavior in this discussion

As for being offended that somebody differs: You're not going to take their advice anyway, why in the hell are you so butt hurt that it was given?  

[BrownBobby]

12 minutes ago, spark said:

Unfortunately, there is elements and people on this board who are acting dangerously like cult members.  You don't want to hear anything critical of seeking a complicated and dangerous medical procedure (it is, whether you agree with with it, or not).  Instead, you just want confirmation that you're correct.   When there is a post that is critical, of your idea, you immediately attack.   

IMO- and I'll probably be called a troll for this (obviously not the case, given my history on this board), but I  think there is element posting on this board that needs to take a hard look at their behavior in this discussion

As for being offended that somebody differs: You're not going to take their advice anyway, why in the hell are you so butt hurt that it was given?  

Your whole argument would have a lick of sense, and a leg to stand on, if most of those people didn't come in as the morality police to preach the Gospel to the sinners and non-believers who wallow in their wickedness.

As you just did here, right now, with your post. I've helpfully highlighted it for you. And I believe that rather proves the point.